Why the Boks Will Lift the World Cup Again

December 17, 2006
Posted by

Rugga World reader, Cab, has examined the options and concluded that there is no reason the Springboks cannot win the world cup in France next year.

Whether you are for or against the notion of experimental teams it’s difficult to deny the positives taken from the NH tour with one eye on the world cup.

Frans Steyn is the most obvious. Capable of playing anywhere in the backline, he also provides a very different option for White at either fullback or wing.

CJ was fantastic, especially at LH and provides depth to the invaluable but ageing Os who we all hope will get up for one final season. With BJ Botha settled at TH, these 3 props are worldclass. A return of Guthro Steenkamp further strengthens the squad.

Another ageing great is AJ who has repeatedly provided a hard edge to the backrow when necessary. While we also hope AJ gets in one final season, Danie Rossouw has come of age in this role with much the same size and style as AJ. Juan Smith and Pierre Spies are incredibly explosive ball carriers. If both fit, one needs to consider playing Spies on the wing, since his pace is simply too much to ignore.

Jake White has finally accepted the role of a fetcher for his squad and Kabamba’s selection is a good one. The big one though is the return of Schalk Burger who apparently is looking good for the S14. With Joe Van Niekerk, Wannenberg and Watson all in the hunt it truly is an outstanding looseforward mix and even some of these players are bound to lose out on selection with only 30 being chosen.

Johan Muller has had a fantastic year and is a prodigious grafter that plays his heart out every game. Albert had a good world XV game, but if White wants a specialist lineout jumper as backup to Matfield, the selection of Barend Pieterse is long overdue, who has over the last 2 years dominated even Matfield in the S14 lineout stats and offers more in the tightloose. Ackerman is simply the only enforcer lock in SA to challenge Bakkies, but his age is a concern. Still, he is incredibly well conditioned and immensely strong. Another grizzled warrior, perhaps ideal for the NH.

In Du Preez, Januarie and Pienaar there is a range of scrumhalf talent in which Du Preez probably falls between the other two contrasting styles. All are very dangerous and even Januarie when in shape, can be a terror to any side.

Not only have AP and Butch showed through their play that they are the two flyhalves for SA, but they have proved the requisite big match temperament required of a worldclass 10. Frans Steyn provides a very interesting backup.

Our centres are all dangerous with Jean De Villiers, Olivier, Fourie and Jaco P that bring a range of talents and depth in this position, which few, if any sides can match.

On the wing Habana and Willemse are wordclass, accordingly both were IRB player of the year nominations. Willemse does need to recover from his injuries though. Paulse is also thereabouts with one of the best steps around, but defence is a worry and with age has lost much straightline pace. Akona is good, but not worldclass. However, with Steyn and an overflow of quality centres that have the speed to play wing, this position is covered.

There is only one real weakness if you can call it that, hooker.

John Smit at his best can be very effective, but we have not seen that in a long time. His lineout accuracy and captaincy are unbeatable, but his effectiveness in the tightloose, tackling and conditioning are questionable, particular with so many attacking players like Brits, Strauss, Reynecke, etc. Gary Botha is very solid in the tightloose, but he’s no Mealamu. Not sure we have the complete hooker.

In short the side has a great balance of youth and veterans, both are needed to win these tournaments. While many chastise White this is a team that has played together as consistently as possible. Due to injuries, players have been shifted out of position, but the same culture, drills, tactics and player mannerisms have been learnt and digested.

NZ are the side to beat. SA are the only side to have done it. A world cup final is a funny thing. Great teams can do funny things and we have already seen what can happen when NZ are put under pressure. In such a final, should SA get there, they would be the underdog. NZ are the form team and are desperate for world cup success.

The script is written for an upset, NZ will choke and the Boks will win it.

Thanks for the contribution and having the cajones to offer an opinion, Cab.

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634 Comments

  1. avatar Shred says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 8:15 am

    Hey Cab, I agree with most of what you have put down. One of the weaknesses that worry me is the center pair. The defence is very suspect and Jean is not putting anybody into space.

    I see you had no mention on our Fullbacks?

  2. avatar JJ says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 8:22 am

    Clear that this has been well researched and makes a lot of sense.

    The colour factor will however preclude this team from being selected as it stands.

  3. avatar Oranje Orakel says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 8:29 am

    Johan Muller has had a fantastic year and is a prodigious grafter that plays his heart out every game. Albert had a good world XV game, but if White wants a specialist lineout jumper as backup to Matfield, the selection of Barend Pieterse is long overdue, who has over the last 2 years dominated even Matfield in the S14 lineout stats and offers more in the tightloose.

    hehehe

    For that paragraph alone I will forgive you for being a Mbekistani Cab

    Great arti

    I agree with (almost) everything- and share some of JJ’s concerns

    But without the 94 dispensation we would not even be in International Rugby

    So lets deal with the Transformation issue and play them where they can hurt the AB’s

    Go FLOORS

    GO APLON

    :grin:

  4. avatar ambiorix says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 8:48 am

    Morning lads

    You guys cannot be serious agreeing with this. Cab no offence buddy but i think you’re thinking with your heart and not your head.
    It’s easy to take any team and list attributes of each player and suddenly the team seems rock solid.
    But come on, look at the form of our team as a whole. How many away games have we won in NH? How have we performed in europe this season? How many tries have we scored from set play vs intercepts/broken play? And about that rush defence, isn’t it obvious we’ve been figured out?

    Sorry dog, I strongly disagree with your prediction. NZ to walk it, only teams that can take them will be France & Oz. Altho i’d love nothing more than to see Smit lifting the Web Ellis, i don’t see it happening.

    I’m eager to hear PA’s take…

  5. avatar Ballas says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 8:50 am

    JJ, what research? I don’t see anything everybody already knows.

  6. avatar Ballas says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 8:52 am

    Ambiorix, I’m with you on that one.

  7. avatar Big Fish says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 9:23 am

    Interesting read, cab. I do agree that its not enought to look at individuals, but I think you perhaps have implied and assumed that people are aware that certain key partnerships are taking shape – front-row,locks, loosies, and halfbacks all looking good and centres getting better especially since Olivier appeared.

  8. avatar DavidS says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 9:40 am

    The big one though is the return of Schalk Burger who apparently is looking good for the S14

    Word I got down the grapevine, and it’s a rather solid grapevine is that Schalk is 100% but coaches are worried about his newfound and understandable lack of commitment at the rucks and reluctance to take contact…. and that’s just in the practice camps. He might not even make the Stormers squad.

    Ackerman is simply the only enforcer lock in SA to challenge Bakkies, but his age is a concern.

    Kobus Grobler

    We have good centres? Jean De Villiers is a good centre? Are you off your nut cab? Wynand Olivier is a good centre? Again, have you lost the plot totally? You should stop holding in those foul oxtail farts to impress Russian girls. It’s adling your thinking.

    Wynand can’t pass. He can’t take a hit. Watch his defence. He allows the attacker to go past him, gain yards and then he tackles the oke after he’s crossed the gain line. De Villiers is next to useless.

    Bottom line is similar to the Lions this year. Wealth of talent at outside centre and zip @ #12.

    We don’t have a 12, just like in 1995 and my thoughts are that we will HAVE to convert one of Meyer Bosman or Frans Steyn… or pray the RobD lovechild can maintain the form he took into the S14 last year and slowly lost as the season progressed.

  9. avatar ambiorix says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 9:49 am

    David don’t forget the kind of shite rugby Habana has been playing this season.
    Pienaar doesn’t tackle.
    Agree with ur take on De villiers & Olivier.
    AP & Butch have BMT? Both have shown brilliance at times but AP’s inconsistent & Butch’s injury problems will be a worry.
    And that #12 position is gonna be our achilles heel.e-Sigh.
    On a lighter note (ping), today’s my last day of abusing company time to blog for 2006. I’ll check you all Jan 8th for more KP.

    peace
    ambio

  10. avatar Oranje Orakel says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 10:02 am

    ambiorix, Ballas

    Cab has got the notion right- And yes I do believe that we can win this thing

    The ALL BLACKS are by far the best team on the planet- but that Q final is lOOming- with their history of choking- They will be worried

    More than us

    Hehehe DavidS

    Yip Bosman is a 12- Steyn will be an awesome 12

    But no Muir will play Bradlee there

    If SARU have BALLs- they will buy out Steyn’s contract and play him either at Oranje or Skyblue 12

    I would love a backline like this come RWC 2007

    9 FDP/Januarie

    10 Petoors/ Frans Steyn

    12 FransSteyn/ Bosman

    11 Habana

    13 Olivier

    14 Aplon

    15 Jaque Fourie

    You can change 14 15 around in the game

  11. avatar DavidS says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 10:11 am

    OO

    Lions are in DIRE need of a 12.

    Unless someone has balls of steel and plays Earl Rose there, hoping the kid’s sorted out his body conditioning enough to defend properly at that possie.

    Ambi

    Peace and good cheer bro.

    Enjoy the break!

  12. avatar Oranje Orakel says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 10:11 am

    DavidS

    My pack

    LH

    Os & CJ

    TH

    BJ and JDup

    Hooker

    Bismarck( Sorry gary Fans) & Reghardt Strauss( watch his development in S14- and unlike Brits he can throw in

    4 Lock

    Bakkies & Varkhond

    5 Matfield & Luftwaffe

    6 Cobus Grobbelaar, ( Schalk- if fit)Ryno and Floors always in Green 19

    7. Juan Smith- ( vacant)Can Dlulane recover- excellent carrier of the ball although not that much of a lineout option

    8. Pakslae Eish ( SKINSTAD)?

    This pack will have all the mongrel and savvy to play an equal game against anycomers and with the correct subs

    Pakslae to lock with bakkies- Smith Floors and Skinstad in last 20 minutes

    It can happen- big time- we can beat the BLACKS

    That is the NZ version- if nobody is listening :smile:

  13. avatar Oranje Orakel says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 10:16 am

    So let me pick a team with out Free Staters

    OS doesnt count he is a Universal BOK!

    OS
    Bismarck
    BJ
    Bakkies
    Matfield
    Cobus Grobbelaar
    AJ
    Pakslae

    FDP
    Petoors
    Frans Steyn
    Habana
    Olivier/Klein Petoorsie
    Aplon
    Jacque Fourie

  14. avatar gertperd says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 11:06 am

    Jy weet O-O, jy kan ook maar `n pot bollie praat as jy die dag lus is.

  15. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 11:10 am

    shred, yes the defense when AP and JdV play together can be suspect, but they are both quality players that can get it right.

    JJ, you are of course spot on, the transformation question sis a big one, but if Willemse, Steenkamp, Januarie and Floors all fit; its looking good.

    ambio, fair enough, we can defnitely improve our results, its just a prediction, perhaps a leftfield one, but the squad looks good.

    Ballas, no research, its meant to be just an opinion. lambaste it if u want.

    hehe OO, nah i agree with you Pieterse deserves it.

  16. avatar JJ says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 11:11 am

    and I thought only JW selects people out of position.

  17. avatar DavidS says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 11:14 am

    We should actually see if we can’t get old Patrick to give us a heads up on what he thinks a Bok pack that can compete with the Kiwis will look like

  18. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 11:24 am

    Big fish,

    yes interesting comment and this is going to be the biggest difficulty…

    i.e. if all fit which players too start with.

    at prop with all of BJ, CJ and Os who do you leave out, same with loose forward, centre and even fullback. likewise if butch and AP are both fit, who starts, both impressive.

    DavidS,
    varkhond looks very promising, but lets see him do it in on the international stage, the S14. Ackerman did it week in and week outr for the sharks and was huge against England. Seriously when last can anyone remember the way that english pack was stopped and even mauled up field (2nd test)? not even the ABs did that.

    disagree on 12, think JdV is a great 12, no-one with a better rugby brain, he distributes well and is deceptively quick. he’s also a big physical centre which is ideal for the modern 12; most teams have gone that way. I think Fourie is anohter option at 12, since he playted flyhalf at school is helluva solid in contact and runs very straight lines. skillfull too. Steyn also has the works, but JdV is the boy, just needs the right platform from tight 5, which means ppl like Matfield and Smit need to start getting stuck in.

    OO,
    great pack at 10.11, skinstad is very good, but i wonder if he can get back the requisite hunger and levels of fitness after being out so long and living the life…not convinced.

  19. avatar Sarky says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 11:33 am

    Watched the 1997 Bok OZ game on boots ‘n all last night. Percy,Jannie de Beer and Lem were interesting talents. Percy, at 12 I think, was a revelation, tackled like a demon.
    Os is thinner now than then and looked quite quick. I’d thought young Steyn is quite classy but Andre Joubert was a real Rolls Royce.

    Percy will be key at RWC if approaches anything like his pre 2006 form.

  20. avatar DavidS says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 11:35 am

    Sweet Madre Dios Cab

    The oke intercepts and gets caught by players turning to chase him

    You’re right about deception

    Fuck he surely deceived me into thinking he was running like a fucking carthorse!

    The last time a Bok centre got caught like that was useless Darius Botha in 1981….

    Make peace with it.

    He is not deceptively fast, he is in reality slowwer than a steam train up BainsKloof pass

  21. avatar Vinnie says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 11:44 am

    cab,

    I agree and disagree with you.

    I agree we have the players to do the business. They are talented enough and we have cover in every position no matter what these guys say.

    But this is the crux of my concern – we have the players but not the team.

    Individually I think we’re a bit like the Cats – great on paper but not really gelling on the field.
    If we can sort that out…

    I also dont agree with jean de vill.
    He just hasnt shown this pace or this vision you talk about. I like the boy as do most other guys, I just feel he was maybe shown in too quickly.
    He leaks tackles and just doesnt really offer all that much.
    Reading reports it also doesnt sound as if he is really committed to being a hard-grafting professional. Heard he doesnt train in the off-season etc.
    Anyway I hope he comes good – I just hope somebody emerges to push him a bit, otherwise I fear it wont happen and we’ll have to sit with these mediocre performances.

    I do not feel Jean is anywhere near the 12′s we’ve had in the past. He’s no Hennie le Roux, Henry Honiball etc.

    Anyway where I do agree wholeheartedly with you is that we are the team to take it from the kiwis.
    Simply because we dont care who we are and believe they are unjustly occupying our position on the throne of world rugby.

    If anybody can do it it will be us.

    If we can only turn individual talent into team performances.

  22. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 11:49 am

    lol DavidS,
    u need help, JdV has played on the wing very successfully, you forget this bloke is shifting a frame well over 100kgs around.

    Vinnie,
    yes they do need to start gelling better, but there were some great centre breaks in the first test against England when Butch was on. JdV’s tackling i’ve always been critical of, right from the get go, when you lot wanted him over The Law, but he was like a wall in the english tests, if he can get up for it sometimes, he must do it everytime. Its AP thats a bigger worry on defense.

  23. avatar Ballas says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 11:49 am

    Ballas, no research, its meant to be just an opinion. lambaste it if u want.

    Comment by cab — December 15, 2006 @ 11:24 am

    I know it’s just an opinion, I was referring to JJ when he said Clear that this has been well researched and makes a lot of sense.

    I like your arti, it’s just that I don’t think everything said is enough for us to win the WC.

  24. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 11:50 am

    He dont look like Paulse, but i wonder if their sprint times are that different. Same as Latham, they might not look it, but they are quick. Div is quicker than Latham.

  25. avatar Vinnie says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 11:51 am

    cab,

    In the first test Jean was playing against Anthony Allen. A 12 year-old’s defence would have looked good.

    I really hope the boy comes good I just feel he’s going to get a new one torn as soon as he plays against a decent centre.

    Bit like what happened against Ireland actually.

  26. avatar Sarky says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 11:51 am

    He is not deceptively fast, he is in reality slowwer than a steam train up BainsKloof pass

    Comment by DavidS — December 15, 2006 @ 11:35 am
    He’s also short of BMT, too inconsistent and inclined to brain farts. I’d rather see Steyn there, with J Fourie / J Pretorius at 13.
    I can’t
    I’d like to see a pow wow between S14 coaches and JW when they choose exactly where the short listed Boks will play. Steyn will only challenge the best players in the world if he gets game time in a set position.

    I wonder if Ruan Pienaar is ready for the big time. Januarie was in no kind of shape or form to keep him out of the squad.

  27. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 11:51 am

    yes Ballas, you are probably more sensible, we have a long way to go.

  28. avatar Vinnie says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 11:53 am

    cab,

    Nobody in the bok team is faster than Paulse over 20 metres. Nobody.

    I very much doubt Div is quicker than Latham but even if he is lets not forget Latham is the complete footballer and is almost at the end of his career.

    Div will only get slower over time and doesnt have 10% of Lathams other skills.

  29. avatar Vinnie says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 11:55 am

    Not to cause a fight cab, I do agree with the gyst of your argument.

    We can win it if circumstances converge and our boys start playing as a team.

    We definately have the talent and there are a lot of young guys coming through – more than I thought there were.

  30. avatar Vinnie says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 11:56 am

    I think what Div needs is a good kick up the ass.

    And competition to bring out the best in him.

    His biggest problme is that it came too easily.

  31. avatar Vinnie says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 11:56 am

    4 in a row.

  32. avatar Vinnie says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 11:57 am

    5?

  33. avatar Vinnie says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 11:57 am

    crumbs… 6?

  34. avatar Vinnie says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 11:57 am

    wow. ghost site this early in the morning…

    seven?

  35. avatar Vinnie says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 11:58 am

    holy cow.

    ate?

  36. avatar DavidS says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 11:58 am

    Varkhond in combination with Barend Die Arend ripped virtually all comers from overseas apart when he joined the Cheetahs for the second half of the S14 and their home leg cab….

    Ask OO

  37. avatar Vinnie says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 11:58 am

    hellooooooooooo…….

    nein.

  38. avatar Vinnie says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 11:59 am

    thanks DavidS.

    Its a compulsion.

  39. avatar Oranje Orakel says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 12:00 pm

    y weet O-O, jy kan ook maar `n pot bollie praat as jy die dag lus is.
    Comment by gertperd — December 15, 2006 @ 11:06 am

    hehehe gertperd

    Sure its called my opinion

    So whats yours?

  40. avatar Oranje Orakel says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 12:08 pm

    #

    Varkhond in combination with Barend Die Arend ripped virtually all comers from overseas apart when he joined the Cheetahs for the second half of the S14 and their home leg cab….

    Ask OO
    Comment by DavidS — December 15, 2006 @ 11:58 am

    Agree on Varkhond

    Rather have him with me than against me

    Still Where did the Lions Backs got the ball to play with last year

    Varkhon is goode- ignore him at your own peril

  41. avatar DavidS says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 12:10 pm

    Cab

    In 2004 it was three years ago that Div played wing.

    In 2005 in the Carisbrook test a misguided AP kick lands in Rokococo arms. He and Jean Div next to each other start at same time and The Rock makes Div look like a dray horse on a spring afternoon stroll through the country.

    Fucksakes, AP comes CROSSFIELD and catches the Rock on the line while Div comes bumbling after being totally outsprinted.

    What the hell more proof of the man’s lack of pace do you need than the fact that Slow Coach The Rock can outrun him….

  42. avatar Oranje Orakel says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 12:11 pm

    Point is all these soutie Okes only cheer for someone if his surname is Skeate or barrit

    Varkhond Grobler is way not cOOl enough

    Havent been to the right school either I believe

    Way under rated player

    Hey GertPerd

    Waar runnik jy nou

    gee ons biekie jou span tjom!

  43. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 12:12 pm

    davidS/vinnie

    the thing about De Villiers is his rugby brain and offloads, watch that intercept against england, he read it so well and what hands, some of his offloads as well, beautiful, and he’s getting better with every game. remember also he has’nt had the same flyhalf inside of him. he is big enough to stand up in the tackle and is continuously improving and i’m sorry but IMO he is quick for a big guy. if not at 12, where do u want to play him, surely you are not suggesting he be dropped?

    Vinnie,
    Ireland was dissapointing, but not really surpistring, its a great expereinced ireland team and D’arcy/Bod are the most dangerous attacking midfield in rugby. However, none of our lot were good including JdV and AP, who were terrible defensively, but so was Spies and even the mahnificent Juan Smith (who lacked match sharpness). Our tight 5 was also poor. Hindsight is a perfect science, but in retrospect a more deffensively oriented backline of James, JdV and Olivier would have perhaps gone along way to solving the problem, but come on the attacking prospect of AP, JdV and Habana was at the very least most excitring…

  44. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 12:17 pm

    OO,
    i am a soutie and also think varkhond had plenty talent, but lets see how he does in the S14, same for skeate and bekker and same for barrit and Jaco P.

    okes looks great playing at home, but lets see them stand out where it counts.

  45. avatar Oranje Orakel says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 12:24 pm

    hehehe Cab

    I know- but we all need to break lOOse of the cultural modes- I am just generilising the exact opposite of what everyone always accuse us Afrikaners of doing

  46. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 12:26 pm

    lol, fair enough

  47. avatar DavidS says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 12:27 pm

    If intercepts is what you’re after let Habana play 12.

    Defends better too

  48. avatar il postino says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 12:30 pm

    OO

    I presume your post was said in jest. I think you’ll find the shouting for Skeate or Barritt has to do with provincial bias and not the language they speak at home.

    I challenge you to find any post by any of the ‘souties’ on this site that reveals any linguistic bias regarding players.

    And StMichel doesn’t count. His member isn’t long enough to dangle in the sea.

  49. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 12:31 pm

    Vinnie,
    talent wise, JdV exceeds Honiball and Le Roux easily, but yes agree perhaps he does’nt have the same grafting attitude of the others. its a balance, grafters and creativity, but yes agree he needs to make his tackles, its vital, same for AP. If not then White is right in going with the defensive wall that is Butch and the Law, which everyone perhaps correctly wanted to change.

  50. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 12:33 pm

    DavidS,
    come now, i think even u realise JdV has some great talents…he oozes rugby intelligence and refinment from every pore…habana is a determined speed merchant and a great one at that, but De Villiers is a playmaker.

  51. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 12:38 pm

    reckon if SA play an attacking flyhalf like AP then you need to play a solid defensive 12 like the Law or Jacques Fourie, whereas if you have a defensive wall like Butch at flyhalf then a more attacking 12 like JdV comes into his own.

    Of course the other option is Steyn, and we might very well see him at centre for the sharks if Butch and Percy are fit.

  52. avatar DavidS says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 12:38 pm

    Rather annoyed expression about our resident Englishman Postie?

    Lois is going on leave from the Daily Planet today…

    Cab

    He doesn’t.

    He’s had four years to show his so-called incessantly promised talents and I have yet to see anything more than what a decent club 12 can do as well.

    More talent than Henie Le Roux and Lem…

    Cab

    Stop eating oxtail.

    It’s too close to the Ox’s backside because it looks like you’re spitting out the bullshit you accidentally ate with your Bull’s tail…

  53. avatar Oranje Orakel says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 12:40 pm

    hehehe Postman

    Just read the previous post by me

    Soutie players I rate of the Current crop- in no particular order

    The token soutie in the Cheetah team- Rory Duncan- hugely underrated fella

    Ross Skeate- Huge potential- will eventually take over from Bakkies- as Pakslae has found his pozzi@8

    Ryan Kankofski- Goode player- hope he develops well

    Brock Harris is good

    To my maaind- Coach Erasmus can sign any of these okes and they will fit in- because they are real footballers.

    I believe athat a lot of quality Soutie players- Sowerby- Halstead- is not playing is SA right now so dont kill me for excluding them

    Afrikaner players I do not rate

    Obviously Albert
    Philip Burger
    Jacques Cronje
    Andries Bekker

    all in all its a bit of this and that

    And Sure CAb and postman- seeing that a book should not be judged by its cover- neither should it be judged by the narrator’s lingo

  54. avatar DavidS says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 12:40 pm

    Sten and Meyer are FAR FAR FAR more talented 12′s and I have an inkling that Werner Kreef will prove he’s a better 12 than Div come S14 until Kreef gets himself hurt AGAAAAIIIIINNNNN

  55. avatar Vinnie says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 12:41 pm

    Interesting titbit on Jean.

    In his forst 15 games he scored 11 tries.

    In the next twelve to date he hasnt scored once.

    And that pretty much also sums up his career for me. Started with a bang and has fizzled out.

    Maybe he’s being better marked or maybe he’s just got complacent.

    One thing you cant say cab – Devilliers definately does not have the hunger or committment of a player like Steyn or Roussouw or Smit for that matter.

  56. avatar DavidS says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 12:42 pm

    Fok

    Pollock comes into the attack and gets clobbered after Steyn and Ntini built AAAALLLLLL the pressure.

    Well done medium pacer…

  57. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 12:43 pm

    when have you seen steyn at 12 to judge whether he is more talented? as for meyer bosman, rassie is not even playing him at either 10 or 12. De waal plays 10 and the bigger Meyer plays 12.

    in fact when have you seen any of our 12′s make a penetrative break in the S14? The CC does’nt count, out lot cant tackle.

  58. avatar DavidS says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 12:43 pm

    But luckily Ntini takes revenge in the next over and Jaffer is OUT

    India 14/1

  59. avatar Vinnie says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 12:44 pm

    Saturday, November 09, 2002 13 France 0 0 0 0 0
    Saturday, July 17, 2004 11 Pacific Islanders 1 0 0 0 5
    Saturday, July 24, 2004 11 New Zealand 1 0 0 0 5
    Saturday, July 31, 2004 11 Australia 1 0 0 0 5
    Saturday, August 14, 2004 11 New Zealand 1 0 0 0 5
    Saturday, August 21, 2004 11 Australia 0 0 0 0 0
    Saturday, November 06, 2004 20 Wales 1 0 0 0 5
    Saturday, November 20, 2004 11 England 0 0 0 0 0
    Saturday, June 11, 2005 12 Uruguay 2 0 0 0 10
    Saturday, June 18, 2005 14 France 1 0 0 0 5
    Saturday, June 25, 2005 14 France 1 0 0 0 5
    Saturday, July 09, 2005 14 Australia 0 0 0 0 0
    Saturday, July 23, 2005 12 Australia 1 0 0 0 5
    Saturday, July 30, 2005 12 Australia 0 0 0 0 0
    Saturday, August 06, 2005 12 New Zealand 1 0 0 0 5
    Saturday, August 20, 2005 12 Australia 0 0 0 0 0
    Saturday, August 27, 2005 14 New Zealand 0 0 0 0 0
    Saturday, November 05, 2005 12 Argentina 0 0 0 0 0
    Saturday, November 19, 2005 12 Wales 0 0 0 0 0
    Saturday, November 26, 2005 12 France 0 0 0 0 0
    Saturday, June 10, 2006 12 Scotland 0 0 0 0 0
    Saturday, August 26, 2006 12 New Zealand 0 0 0 0 0
    Saturday, September 02, 2006 12 New Zealand 0 0 0 0 0
    Saturday, September 09, 2006 12 Australia 0 0 0 0 0
    Saturday, November 11, 2006 12 Ireland 0 0 0 0 0
    Saturday, November 18, 2006 12 England 0 0 0 0 0
    Saturday, November 25, 2006 12 England 0 0 0 0 0
    11 0 0 0 55

  60. avatar Vinnie says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 12:46 pm

    I reckon id Jean was black most okes would be shouting quota.

    He really is only there becuase there i snobody challenging.

    I’m not saying he’s doesnt have enough talent – I’m saying the current way he’s playing doesnt warrant his selection.

    Whether he has talent enough or not is laregly irrelevant. Fact is he’s not playing well and hasnt played well for ages.

  61. avatar DavidS says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 12:48 pm

    Vinnie

    Well said at 12h46

    Talent also needs to be shown on the field.

    You can’t survive on promie alone…

  62. avatar Big Fish says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 12:50 pm

    I agree with the questions posed with regard to De Villiers, but nobody can say he is slow- he does a sub-11sec 100m! I think he is a slow turner though. Olivier is not a natural distributor, but he has improved, and he tackles and carries very well. Surely you guys agree he played well during the tour?

  63. avatar Oranje Orakel says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 12:51 pm

    as for meyer bosman, rassie is not even playing him at either 10 or 12. De waal plays 10 and the bigger Meyer plays 12.

    in fact when have you seen any of our 12’s make a penetrative break in the S14? The CC does’nt count, out lot cant tackle.
    Comment by cab — December 15, 2006 @ 12:43 pm

    Eish Cab

    That argument doesnt fly

    Your BIG FUCKIN CHIEF COACH WHITE- called Bosman from Oranje 12- where he was having a blinder of a run

    Just to have him holding tacklebags

    Sends him back to coach Erasmus- Who will obviously not just drop De Waal and hendrik Meyer- Bosman then injures his arm/hand and got to play in the vital two last games as a sub

    So who is the idjeet?

    Guessed right ladies and Jintlecars

    Obviosly the jakester!

    I am not saying Meyer Bosman Should be Bok 12

    Just that his best position is 12- and that at this stage- he look like a posibility

    I know that all the fancy dudes punts for barrit- but i dont believe he will make it.

  64. avatar Vinnie says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 12:52 pm

    Oliveir or de villiers BF?

  65. avatar DavidS says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 12:52 pm

    C’mon You wannabe East Rand Garlic Muncher!

    Puddup ya dukes

    Pull in cousin

    Kom pappa wie’s bang?

    Bring it on!

  66. avatar Vinnie says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 12:53 pm

    Barritt does nothign for me I’m afriad.

    Sorry Rob.

  67. avatar Big Fish says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 12:55 pm

    Vinnie, Olivier played well, i thought, especially out of position. I agree with all the issues with regard to JDV, but the boy is PDQ!

  68. avatar Oranje Orakel says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 12:55 pm

    in fact when have you seen any of our 12’s make a penetrative break in the S14? The CC does’nt count, out lot cant tackle.
    Comment by cab — December 15, 2006 @ 12:43 pm

    Oh yeah Cab

    The last 12 we had that could break was Ettiene Botha

    And Coach White didnt pick him either- did he?

  69. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 12:55 pm

    I haven’t even mentioned Brad on this thread. Yet.

  70. avatar Oranje Orakel says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 12:57 pm

    hehehe Rob

    But it was close hey

    How is mudville?

  71. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 12:57 pm

    glad OO thinks I’m a fancy dude, though…

  72. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 12:58 pm

    Right actions, speak louder than words.

    As exhbit A please watch the 2nd try and the ones at minutes 2:43, 2:56 and in particular 4:57.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_m_LWDeCbc

    This is a masterclass on inside centre play by the Div. The last one in particular at 4:57 is what its all about, split-second close-quarter stuff with the awareness and intelligence to create offloads like that against specialised modern dfenses.

  73. avatar JJ says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 12:58 pm

    Hey Ballas
    I see you giving me a hard time about Cab’s research, just jokes mate. His team makes a lot of sense to me but the moment reality steps in, namely transformation, it all goes haywire, sure we got brilliant youngsters coming through but not there yet and not always in the positions we need them in.

    I agree nearly 100% with the team he has put forward and have no doubt that they can come close if not win the WC if all are injury free and performing at 100%, that includes JW.

  74. avatar Oranje Orakel says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 12:58 pm

    The worst part of barrits game is that he woul always struggle to outpace CJ

    :smile:

  75. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 12:58 pm

    not as cold as I was expecting. Damn central heating is always turned up way too high

  76. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 12:59 pm

    OO,
    that is a very good point, which i cannot argue with. EB could break the line.

  77. avatar Big Fish says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 12:59 pm

    OO, come on man. Looks like you will take anything to whip White with. Are you really going to make an issue because White didn’t pick Botha? Would you? Even he admitted that he felt he didnt deserve a call-up yet – his defense was worse thn JDV!

  78. avatar Oranje Orakel says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 1:00 pm

    hehehe Rob

    aint all you dudes from Durbs( yeah yeah i know you resides in Jozi) fancy?

  79. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 1:00 pm

    I wish I could find a clip of Brad’s pass that set up Keegan for his try at Loftus… that’d shut you okes up for a bit.

  80. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 1:02 pm

    OO – I think you have a deep-seated mistrust of English speakers, actually ;)

  81. avatar Oranje Orakel says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 1:04 pm

    No Big Fish

    I was just taking on Cabs argument that we dont have a 12 that can break the line

    I want a 12 who can tackle like a flank and distributes like a 10

    The place to shred the line is outside of 12- the only players able to do so against a well organised defence is 15 and 13.

    If the passing is slick – the ball will reach then before the cover- and they only have to beat their own marker

    Seconly a 12 must be able to kick

    but that is my opinion

    I dont dislike Coach White by default- just hugely irritated by his brainfarts- and when his disciples make arguments like this one I will gave my opinion

    fair enough?

  82. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 1:05 pm

    don’t you okes reckon Brad would make a fine no 6?

  83. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 1:06 pm

    fair enough OO, but have a look at 4:57 of that clip, no-one else in SA can do that.

  84. avatar Vinnie says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 1:07 pm

    cab,

    I think that clip actually supports my argument more than yours.

    That was all the tries for the entire seaosn and he only featured in a couple!

    Shit balls Ive seen him fluff more tries than he made.

    I didnt actually realise he was quite so useless.

    There were guys on there that played only half the amount of games that he did and they got more camera time.

    And attach is supposed to be the hallmark of his game.

    If you had videos of all my club games for the season you’d see more passes in the tackle than that.

  85. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 1:07 pm

    lol,
    robd in fairness i read somewhere that Mallet also rates Brad, got to be something there.

  86. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 1:07 pm

    OO – to me, you just described Brad Barritt to a T. He he.

  87. avatar Oranje Orakel says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 1:07 pm

    #

    OO – I think you have a deep-seated mistrust of English speakers, actually ;)
    Comment by robdylan© — December 15, 2006 @ 1:02 pm

    possibly RobD

    But at least I am trying to get to grips with it.

    Maybe it will help if the Queen would apologise for the 26 000 that was killed by proxy in the concentration camps

    But I can assure you – I do not hold that against bradly- I just think he is not goode enough

  88. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 1:09 pm

    vinnie,
    you are obviously not watching that clip properly, i am talking about inside centre play with a structured move and 1st phase posession, not broken play where we’ve picked up scraps in the past. I repeat again look at 4:57 for all u need to know about why he should be at 12.

  89. avatar Vinnie says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 1:10 pm

    Even James Hook, the new Welsh centre, looks better than Jean de Villiers.

    At leats he knows how to score.

    He does look a pretty damn good player though…

  90. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 1:10 pm

    mallett tried very hard to buy him

  91. avatar Vinnie says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 1:10 pm

    cab,

    That was one seond of play in an entire season!

  92. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 1:11 pm

    after that, there’s not much that can be done, if you cant see his talents.

  93. avatar Oranje Orakel says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 1:12 pm

    I want a 12 who can tackle like a flank and distributes like a 10

    So we agree on the job description RobD

    Just not on the oke to execute it

  94. avatar Big Fish says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 1:12 pm

    Fair enough OO, but I would add that we dont have a 12 who can break the line AND tackle. By the way, i agree with your ideal 12 – he doesnt have to be the most devastating player, but he must make things happen around. Thing is, we lack that and a good flyhalf…

  95. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 1:13 pm

    vinnie,
    how many other centers have u seen do that, it does’nt happen often precisely because modern defences are so well organised, but if u can get players that are capable of unlocking them, they’re gems. hold onto them, dont get rid of them.

    its tight in that channel, as OO says the actions happens outside of it.

  96. avatar Vinnie says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 1:14 pm

    Its a prerequisite to play international rugby.

    Lets change it around – which international centres do you know that can’t do it?

    Tell me honestly cab – do you think Jean de Villiers, playing as he has been for the last, say, 10 tests, is good enough to mix it with the best players in the world?

  97. avatar Big Fish says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 1:14 pm

    OO, to be fair, Brad can kick very well, is a hell of a tackler and distributes well enough to play flyhalf. Lets see what the future holds.

  98. avatar Vinnie says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 1:16 pm

    Seriously cab, we have guys in most other positions that are in the top 2 or 3 in the world.

    I dont see de villiers breaking the top 5.

  99. avatar Oranje Orakel says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 1:16 pm

    Sure Big fish- I know Ettiene Botha wasnt the complete 12 that we needed

    And on the english thingy RobD

    I do entrust the Anglo Speakers enough to allow them to provide the Scholastic background of the Orakels education

    I cant trust them more than that – can I?

  100. avatar Vinnie says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 1:16 pm

    Not on performances anyway.

    On promise maybe but simply not on performances ove rthe last two seasons.

  101. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 1:20 pm

    I think as the flyhalf birth becomes more settled and the bok tight 5 win more ball, the combination of JdV and Fourie can become frighteningly good.

    That try at 4:57 is not a one-off, we have seen Fourie cut clean through like that so emphaticly on a few occasions, some of which have been judged just forward, but the timing will only get better with experience.

    Everyone rates Fourie just as they did Joubert, but dont forget who puts these guys away, its the unpopular Law and now JdV. think a little more about it. Its a strange position in that it requires brute force as well as great subtlety and timing, and does not get the accolades of the outside backs.

  102. avatar Oranje Orakel says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 1:21 pm

    look Guys

    I dont hate Bradley Barrit

    I just havent seen him playing that well to root for him

    I usually sit behind the poles – to see the backlines movements better

    And I was watching him – in particular- (since all the RobD generated Hype :grin: ) in both bloem games against the states

    and he struggled

    But again- I am not a back expert and yes maybe a bit provincially biased

    lets see what this S14 brings

  103. avatar Vinnie says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 1:22 pm

    So cab, by talking about the future you are admitting that on current form Jean is simply not playing well enough?

  104. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 1:25 pm

    Vinnie,
    he is irratic, the test against Ireland absymal, but he was not the only one, the only SA player that played well in that test were Rossouw and Steyn.

    Against England he was superb, both an attack and defense, in both games.

  105. avatar Vinnie says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 1:27 pm

    cab,

    England in 2006 has been no yardstick.

    Granted he ahsnt been the only one playing poorly but lets face it, he needs to lift his game if he a) wants to keep his place and b) wants to be considered on eof the worlds best.

    Its easy postulating about this and that and how much vision he has and what he promises etc etc etc but the fact remains he’ll always have detractors until he delivers on the field.

    and a few sparks of genius simply won’t cut it.

    He also needs to start doing some serious grafting.

  106. avatar ambiorix says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 1:27 pm

    Vinnie it’s quite obvious cab would play pop idol on The Div’s microphone if he could. Overlooking his mistakes and flaws big time.

  107. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 1:32 pm

    agree that Brad fell off badly towards the end of the CC.

  108. avatar Stan says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 1:33 pm

    JDV is becoming like Graeme Smith.

  109. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 1:36 pm

    didn’t think he was into girls…

  110. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 1:37 pm

    OO – you turning the little Orakels into souties? I am so proud!

  111. avatar Big Fish says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 1:37 pm

    Surely not that yet Stan?

    Rob, bear in mind that the Sharks pack was going nowhere and that he was carying a serious calf injury.

  112. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 1:39 pm

    didn’t know about the calf, BF, but agree that our pack was getting hammered. Also remember the thuggery from JP Nel…

  113. avatar Vinnie says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 1:42 pm

    Didnt he mention it while you were giving him the prostate exam Rob?

  114. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 1:43 pm

    Fresh bait needed, Vinnie…

  115. avatar David says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 1:43 pm

    OO
    Your description of a perfect 12 sounds a bit like Luke!

  116. avatar Stan says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 1:44 pm

    what thuggery?
    This is rugby rob, not ballet…..

  117. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 1:44 pm

    Look ma, no hands! He he!

  118. avatar Vinnie says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 1:45 pm

    :lol: Rob.

  119. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 1:45 pm

    Late high cheap shot hits don’t belong in either sport, Stan.

  120. avatar Oranje Orakel says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 1:46 pm

    #

    agree that Brad fell off badly towards the end of the CC.
    Comment by robdylan© — December 15, 2006 @ 1:32 pm

    agreed RobD

    Which was also the time that his pack struggled

    so he had less time and space to operate in

    Which would have curtailed his natural ability

    he seems also in need of some speed coaching

    But hey I am signing of on Barrit

  121. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 1:46 pm

    Glad you got it :)

  122. avatar Big Fish says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 1:46 pm

    Lol, the WP “boys” ripping other guys off with gay jokes? Tread carefully Vinnie, there was rampant speculation about rob’s romantic getaway with you in the UK –
    “There are those who pass like ships in the night, who meet for a moment, then sail out of sight with never a backward glance of regret”

  123. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 1:47 pm

    but we were just getting started, OO!

  124. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 1:48 pm

    What flowers do you like, Vinnie?

  125. avatar Big Fish says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 1:48 pm

    OO, Brad did recognise last year already that he needed speed coaching, so he enlisted the help of a professional sprint coach. at least he seems determined to work on his weaknesses.

  126. avatar Oranje Orakel says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 1:49 pm

    #

    OO
    Your description of a perfect 12 sounds a bit like Luke!
    Comment by David — December 15, 2006 @ 1:43 pm

    Then David

    He must play 12 for the HoopedOnes

    hehehe RobD

    The Orakels cannot be Souties- coz they dont long for Brittania

    But yes- I would like them to be tested in an individual setup- the big afrikaans schools caters well for team players-

    But lets see how it evolves- pro’s and cons to both

  127. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 1:50 pm

    Fish… why you not on Google Talk?

  128. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 1:51 pm

    how old are they now?

  129. avatar Oranje Orakel says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 1:53 pm

    Eldest Grade 1 next year

    II has just turned four and III turns 3 in March

  130. avatar Vinnie says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 1:53 pm

    What flowers do you like, Vinnie?

    Comment by robdylan© — December 15, 2006 @ 1:48 pm

    Your please Rob :razz:

    :lol:

  131. avatar Vinnie says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 1:54 pm

    Sorry – Yours please Rob…

  132. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 1:55 pm

    ok – so still time to experiment

  133. avatar Stan says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 1:55 pm

    Late high cheap shot hits don’t belong in either sport, Stan.

    Comment by robdylan© — December 15, 2006 @ 1:45 pm

    Unless you are playing against the English!

  134. avatar Big Fish says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 1:56 pm

    Stan, those aren’t cheap shots, those are blows for justice.

  135. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 1:56 pm

    ok – I guess I asked for that, Vinnie

  136. avatar Stan says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 1:58 pm

    It should be made legal that any one can hit an English player at any time. including wives and spectators…

  137. avatar welshbok says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 2:01 pm

    Vinnie, the whole bok backline has been visibly off form since we haven’t been enforcing (Bakkies) up front and no contesting at breakdowns (schalk)

    Very little structured attack has happened from the backline, and that was because up front and with the loosies things weren’t right.

    On 9 and 10 the ball was either kicked away aimlessly, or distributed at a snails pace totaly out of reach, and in spite of that, de villiers still managed to put the line away at times.

    My personal take, i would love to see our backline from 12 – 15 with de villiers at 12 and steyn at 15 playing behind a NZ pack of forwards and carter at 10.

    I’m preparred to say that de Villiers would be majestic whilst on the receiving side of quick quality passes on the front foot, with Habana scoring more tries than Roccococo and Howlett combined.

  138. avatar David says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 2:03 pm

    All these excuses for Brad are based on the fact that the Sharks pack didn’t dominate. So what? The ABs pack rarely dominates but it doesn’t mean that their 12 disappears from the game.
    As for speed training, the only option would be to trade him in for someone who can run. This isn’t Chariots of Fire.

  139. avatar Vinnie says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 2:05 pm

    :lol::lol::lol: David.

  140. avatar Vinnie says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 2:08 pm

    welshbok,

    Again you’re falling into the same trap as cab – de villiers will be good when etc etc etc.

    Ifs, ands and buts. He’s had three bloody seasons with four bloody flyhalves. Count them if you must.
    Maybe the problme isnt the flyhalf…

    Olivier was a breath of fresh air when he came in. Hard graft, hard takcles and he went over the gain line. And he wasnt even all that good.

  141. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 2:10 pm

    ha ha ha. Grrr

  142. avatar The Brand© says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 2:14 pm

    I know it was said tongue in the cheek BUT: “The Backrow – : Usually the most handsome and intelligent, these three men of stamina and strength are often considered the Renaissance men of the rugby field. They not only control ball, but the entire pitch. Remember, the back row defines the whole team’s style of play. “They are the game.?

    This had me sitting up.

    I have never ever thought of this possibility.

    Quite fenominal thinking about it!!!

  143. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 2:19 pm

    welshbok,
    think you spot on about the bok outside backs behind a dominant Nz pack. Not sure i agree the ABs pack always dominates, they’ve just blitzed the french tight 5 into submission.

    vinnie,
    u can only play with the ball u are given, its impossible to create if you dont have the ball.

    lol Robd, vinnie sounds like a tulip man to me…

  144. avatar fyndraai says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 2:21 pm

    Listing a number of talented players means nothing. SA has tons of talent.
    We have a shortage of good coaches and unless Coach White turns into Coach Genius in 2007 we will need some luck to make the semis.

  145. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 2:22 pm

    sorry, let me rephrase, not sure i agree with David that the NZ pack does not always dominate, i think they always do, or at least win the breakdown battle which includes committment and speed from their tight players like Mealamu, Jack, and even Collins. McCaw slows down everything and wins everything slightly loose.

  146. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 2:24 pm

    fyndraai,
    disagree, think white has developed the right talent. if we has so much talent we would’nt bring up the rear of the S14 each year… and White has nothing to do with these results.

  147. avatar Vinnie says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 2:25 pm

    I reckon Coahc White could do with a bit of developing himself…

  148. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 2:27 pm

    perhaps “assembled” is a better word than “developed”.

  149. avatar welshbok says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 2:29 pm

    Vinnie, when was de Villiers at his best so far in the 12 posi?

    …..when Schalk was contesting on the floor and the loosies were all over the park with the ball, getting the turnovers, and Fourie dP was getting the quick ball out and down the line.

    This all happened after hopeless Jaco vdW was dropped after the Sydney game last year.

    This season du Preez was perpetually kicking from the base of the scrum under unnecessary pressure because of lack of breakdown contest and a kak flyhalf on his outside (till Butch was flown in).

    This bad season was solely because of no fetchers, scrummies under pressure, a KAK flyhalf again(hence Matfield trying to take over there)and the play makers suffering from ball starvation, having to tackle their guts out all game.

    I personally feel it was bad selections that made de Villiers look the way he looked, and had these been better, the whole bok backline (de Villiers included) would have been a whole different outfit with the same players (bar vd Westhuizen).

  150. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 2:32 pm

    think about it, in the S14 which country’s sides gets laughed off each year, we are lucky to sneak the odd SA side into 4th place and its usually as a result of them beating the other SA sides and winning every 2nd home game againt foreign oppo.

    Yet White’s won us a 3N, a second place and a third place…these results are considerably better than our S14 depth and talent suggests, where we are easily the weakest country in the competition. whipping boys.

  151. avatar Vinnie says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 2:33 pm

    You’re mad cab.

  152. avatar David says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 2:35 pm

    Welshbok
    There’s a great deal of merit in your comments about our loose trio which has never looked like a unit. I spent a great deal of energy on Keo explaining that the lack of a genuine openside affected the backs more than the forwards. However, until Jake was forced to change his mind certain bloggers, who shall remain nameless, refused to see it.
    However, as Vinnie pointed out, our centres have never looked dangerous or penetrative, even with Schalk at 6 so on what basis do we judge them?

  153. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 2:37 pm

    vinnie

    so u don’t think we have the weakest sides in the S14?

    hell even the Force looked more promising than most of our lot and even drew to some away. The Brumbies, Waratahs, Crusaders, Hurricanes and Blues simpkly destroy our talent.

    Apart from the Reds and the Force, and even then, is there any SA side you’d feel would beat these sides. whereas the top NZ and OZ sides you know are simply going to destroy our minions and even top teams.

  154. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 2:39 pm

    David,
    3 tries for Marius Joubert to beat the Nz’s by 40, penetrative, come on, no side’s centres have done that, even ireland darcy and Bod could’nt do that…and remember that was with the Law at 12 feed Joubert.

  155. avatar welshbok says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 2:45 pm

    David

    On ground of the fact that at u/21 level de Villiers and Rathbone as a centre pair ripped the world apart. At that level de Villiers showed that he is absolute class at 12.

    Why?

    Because the structures on the field were right, hence them being on the receiving side of good quaility ball, and they had the time and space to be magicians.

  156. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 2:45 pm

    come on tell me i’m wrong, after all we have rassie erasmus, dick muir, heyneke meyer and nick mallett all heading up the coaching staffs of these franchises and all fantastic coaches, and yet the one who’s achieved the best results is the national coach…strange.

  157. avatar Oranje Orakel says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 2:46 pm

    Yet White’s won us a 3N, a second place and a third place

    Hehehe Cab

    I know its knit-picking but why should we be delighted in Coach White- winning us a third place in the TRI-nations?

  158. avatar welshbok says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 2:47 pm

    David

    At u/21 de Villiers had “swois” Swart at 10 who was also a class act.

  159. avatar Oranje Orakel says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 2:48 pm

    #

    come on tell me i’m wrong, after all we have rassie erasmus, dick muir, heyneke meyer and nick mallett all heading up the coaching staffs of these franchises and all fantastic coaches, and yet the one who’s achieved the best results is the national coach…strange.
    Comment by cab — December 15, 2006 @ 2:45 pm

    jeez CAb

    Now you are stretching it

    This is is really turning into a numbnuts argument

  160. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 2:49 pm

    OO, ok a last place, once out of 3 years and winning our home matches against NZ and OZ’s best…name me one S14 team that can boast that record over the same 3 year period.

  161. avatar fyndraai says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 2:50 pm

    I used coaches (plural). Based on the Springbok and Super rugby performances on ’05 and ’06, I say we do not have a coach that could win the world cup.

  162. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 2:53 pm

    the closest are bulls and meyer and they snuck into 4th place and were hammered by the crusaders home and away.

    OK, lets forget about White, its a very simple question I am asking. If you guys are right and we have all this player talent and coached by such great coaches, why have none of these sides achieved any success?

    numbnuts? nah, something wrong with expectations. FS is a perfect example, great players, great coach – smashed overseas. where are the results.

  163. avatar Oranje Orakel says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 2:56 pm

    Cab i cant

    But to argue this in defence of White is just

    Well

    laughable!

    Cheers

    This does not even warrant a Friday afternoon effort

  164. avatar Big Fish says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 3:02 pm

    When will people start to accept the much-hammered reality that we cant even compete in the S14? Yet we expect to win the Tri-Nations? Geez. Delusions of grandeur.

  165. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 3:03 pm

    cheers, am off to.

    not sure what to say, if you want me to agree that White is crap for the interests of congeniality, fine. All i’m saying is the results seem to raise other issues which are not explainable with this logic. The fetcher argument still gives no answers, since they have 2 in floors and ryno a greta blinside and a tight everyone feels should be picked with players like Os, Strauss, Jan Dup, CJ, Pieterse, Duncan, etc. Prvoince have watson and burger, also behind a refurbished pack with Moller, Brits, skeate and bekker. both teams destroyed by the foreign oppo.

    To summarise.

    Australia’s best are better than our best and New Zealands best are way better than Australia’s best – and yet White is able to win us a 3N and even get a 2nd place. take from it what u will, but if u believe replacing the coach with all this talent is the answer, well i disagree for the reasons stated.

    Cheers

  166. avatar Oranje Orakel says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 3:04 pm

    numbnuts? nah, something wrong with expectations. FS is a perfect example, great players, great coach – smashed overseas. where are the results.
    Comment by cab — December 15, 2006 @ 2:53 pm

    Cab

    You are so fixated on your defence of Coach White that you are unraveling boet

    S14 2006 was played by the Cheetahs with players that were Vodacom players 12 months earlier- Whilst your lovedOne have had to his disposal all the best that we had- regardless if he had picked them or played them in the right position.

    If you want to draw parralles between that- there is some of the sixpack missing or gone way flat.

    Jeez Boet- you have handled a hopeless defence of Coach White well so far- this afternoon session is scraping the barrel

  167. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 3:09 pm

    OO,
    i will take the same dig at the lions if you prefer? its not getting personal, which many funnily enough seem to have no problem with for White, but yet fail to see their teams own problems which are even worse.

    all i’m saying is that if White is truly the real problem why is the whole of SA rugby and ALL its teams up shit creek without a paddle?

  168. avatar Oranje Orakel says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 3:17 pm

    all i’m saying is that if White is truly the real problem why is the whole of SA rugby and ALL its teams up shit creek without a paddle?
    Comment by cab — December 15, 2006 @ 3:09 pm

    Cab

    Our rugby is not at the same level as the NZ’s and the rot starts with our structures and coaching

    On that point we are in agreement- ever since – well for a long time.

    But is that fact alone enough for the dumb this Coach White is capable of?

    The only parralel for an underperforming S14 team that you really can use is that of thge Bulls

    Structures in place and still no S14 success

    But surely Cab- you cannot compare this as directly as you do.

    And remember- I did not ount for a direct swap of a S14 Coach with Coach White- as you are now by implication attempt to thrash

    I wanted a sober thinking head Coach with strong Offensive and defence coaches( we have better than the current assistants- dont we)

    But hey in Afrikaans we say

    Dis nou ‘n lang perdevrekte!

    I still think your arti of this morning has valid points

    The argument you used this afternoon has none

  169. avatar Big Fish says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 3:20 pm

    Will be very interesting to see what the States can produce in the s14 this season.

  170. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 3:20 pm

    ok

  171. avatar Oranje Orakel says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 3:22 pm

    Sure Fish

    8 th and a loss against the Force isnt acceptable anymore

    Just loosing out on a semi will be ok -ish

    but I guess Coach Erasmus own goals is a home semi

  172. avatar Oranje Orakel says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 3:24 pm

    Our depth is much better than it was last S14

    On loosies alone we have 9 that can play on this level

    Just remember- the last three weeks of CC 2006 were at least at S14 intensity and the final- well most test matches are not even that intense

  173. avatar il postino says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 3:26 pm

    OO

    I didn’t think you were serious about the soutie comment, but wanted to check anyway.

    And I’d like to point out that my defence was of Engelssprekendes in SA in general, and not those who hanker after the empire.

  174. avatar David says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 3:29 pm

    OO
    You’re being a bit dishonest about the Cheetahs being a Vodacom side the previous season. They did form the core of the Cats. But I agree totally with your point that Jake has the cream of the crop to choose from and it’s his tactics not just the players who are at fault.

  175. avatar Oranje Orakel says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 3:29 pm

    Sure Postman

    Its always sensitive this issues – but it needs to be talked about as well

    I mean- you cant rate Teichman and Skinstad as souties can you- neither yourself and Murph

    But I agree- most Afrikaners will not make that distinction

    Its like classifying all Afrikaners as Dutchmen/rockSpaaiders or clutchplates

    :smile:

  176. avatar Oranje Orakel says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 3:34 pm

    David

    No dishonesty

    some Cheetahs were in the Cats team not all

    At least 8 of the 2005 CC winning team did not play S14 rugby in 2005

    Lets see who were playing for the Cats in 2005

    Naka- retired in 2006
    Boela- off to France in 2006
    Os
    CJ
    Luftwaffe
    Hendro
    Ryno
    Claasens
    DeWaal

    Who else?

    David

    I might be wrong as I did not follow the CATS- because it never were my team so fill in the blanks and I will admit I am wrong

    But that Cheetah Squad which won the currie cup was filled with green horns- just here and there some experience

  177. avatar Oranje Orakel says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 3:36 pm

    Ok add in Chris Kruger

    Ludeke and co used the S14 every year to build the Lions

    And we still pietsed them

  178. avatar Oranje Orakel says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 3:41 pm

    Ok I missed Juan Smith

  179. avatar Oranje Orakel says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 3:51 pm

    23 Visitors online now

    jeez but they are chatty arent they

  180. avatar Oranje Orakel says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 3:53 pm

    25 Visitors online now

  181. avatar Reinhardt says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 3:58 pm

    Die site lyk great!

    Knap gedaan ouens.

  182. avatar Ollie says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 4:01 pm

    Ok, back to the point. Do you guys think that the Boks can win the RWC 2007? Are they realistically in with a chance? And why?

  183. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 4:05 pm

    Cab,

    Notwithstanding the reasonable points being made by others, I think you’ve raised a significant point that has been raised before.

    We all know the Vodacom Cup is fairly crap quality.

    Currie Cup constantly reveals the same flaws, most notably poor individual tackling and awful hands.

    Super 14 is a constant embarrassment for us and our victories are sketchy at best.

    Given all that it is unreasonable to expect the national coach to create miracles.

    Australia have had the Brumbies and the Tahs have their golden patches.

    New Zealand have had the Crusaders and Auckland sometimes produce.

    England have had differing clubs come to the fore and achieve success in Europe, such as Wasps, Leicester, Bath etc.

    Ireland have had Munster and Ulster achieve success.

    France have had Toulouse, Stade Francais, Perpignan etc.

    It seems that the teams who achieve most notable success on the international stage usually have 1 or 2 successful clubs, provinces or franchises firing under them.

    It was Nick Mallett himself who said that a Springbok coach cannot be expected to achieve success using the same players who were not producing in Super (12).

    On that basis alone, White has done bloody well to achieve what he has.

  184. avatar David says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 4:06 pm

    OO
    I honestly can’t remember. In fact all the S14 teams, other than the Bulls were inexperienced.
    What perplexes me is Cabs logic.
    jdeV is brilliant and Jakes new found wisdom of an openside will let him loose. However in defending Jake against my claim that our centres have been awfull he mentions Jouberts 3 tries as a justification for Jakes policy. He misses the fact that he’s intimating that Marius was far better than Jean.
    My feeling is that Marius and de Wet played their natural game at the beginning, before Jake managed to impose his own ideas. The same with Jean and Fourie in the Australian home match when they first started at centre.
    The only conclusion I draw is that the longer Jake coaches a player the worse they get.

  185. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 4:07 pm

    Reinhardt, is that you?

    Reindeer Reinhardt?

    Long time no see!

  186. avatar The Brand© says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 4:10 pm

    Ras

    got my mail?

  187. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 4:11 pm

    TB,

    I did, thank you.

    Shall reply later.

  188. avatar il postino says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 4:12 pm

    Teichmann, Skinstad, Murph – all born north of the Limpopo. I was born in Jozi, but my dad was born north of the Limpopo too.

    Not sure that’s what you were getting at, OO!

    The poms imposed their language all over the empire, so you get heterogenous communities who all speak the same language. My school had Anglos, Jews, Greeks, Lebs, Portuguese etc. So there was a reasonable amount of diversity about the place.

    That diversity was reflected on the playing field too. This was an advantage sometimes, but also sometimes a disadvantage against the more disciplined schools.

    When I watched the Afrikaans schools play, it always struck me that they were very disciplined but also that they could be a bit too inflexible in their tactics. Physically they always managed to overwhelm the English schools but did look all at sea when the souties tried unorthodox stuff.

    Very broad generalisations these. Haven’t watched enough schoolboy rugby in recent times to make a call on whether things have changed. But most Afrikaans schools nowadays have a few black and coloured players in their teams so I’d imagine the tactics are less paint-by-numbers than before.

  189. avatar Sarky says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 4:21 pm

    Cab
    I think you hit the nail on the head. JW gets better results out of the teams he picks, even those loaded with BB’s.
    JdV doesn’t do it for me I’m afraid, he and Habana are either with the wrong S14 franchises or they are simply badly off for. Talent yes, performance – no!

  190. avatar David says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 4:26 pm

    il postino
    Many years ago a friend of mine taught at a dual medium school in Newcastle. She said that her Afrikaans students were far more disciplined, respectfull and easy to manage but rarely questioned or exhibited the same challenging curiosity of her English speaking children.

  191. avatar Sarky says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 4:29 pm

    Whilst I was mumbling into my laptop I re-read this thread and agree with those that say we need a) Bakkies as an enforcer b) a pack that cleans out c) more effective loosies that can contest the ball on the ground.

    I don’t think Barritt, Waylon Murray offer anything special. I prefer Jaco Pretorius, Steyn and even WO from up north. They’re all developing though but I hope the competition for RWC squad is well and truly over before we finish the S14. It’s time for the team to gel now.

    I don’t see JW going north with too many lightweights and I think he’s right, so the Philip Burgers, Aplons and company may not get a look in. I rate Burger though, despite his skinny frame. Attitude is fine, JdV has plenty, as do Bolla, Ricky and a host of others.

  192. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 4:31 pm

    Yes Rasputin, that is well put and its the afternoon point.

    David,
    perhaps if i can seperate some of your points:

    marius and JF are as u know outside centres, marius scored a hat-trick against the ABs and JF scored some emphatic tries from midfield (see clip above). They were both setup by their respective inside centers in Barry and JdV.

    the fetcher argument is a strong one, and one White has conceded.

    However, WP have fetchers in Watson and Burger.

    FS have fetchers in Ryno and Kabamba.

    The lions/cats had baywatch and hendro.

    If we accept a specialist fetcher is imperative, why have the SA teams with the BEST fetchers provided the WORST results?

    PS: I agree that a fetcher is very useful, i am just wondering whether our quick-fix solutions and blame apportioning arfe in fact grounded in fact.

  193. avatar The Brand© says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 4:32 pm

    Posti

    It still is – paint-by-numbers.

    Now they are just even more frustrated.

    I think the Afrikaner – as stereotyped – want control.
    Not necessary power – but control.

    So when the ‘elders’ coach – they expect to control.
    They ‘youngsters’ buck against the ‘system’ – but never out-of or over the ‘system’ – just not done. More a ‘play-test-of-strength’ thing – like young bulls play-pushing against the old elephant bulls.
    Those that ‘threaten’ by buck out-of or over the system, do get – yes you quessed it – sidelined. Just this morning heard about a previous national coach who ‘threatened’ players that he will ‘drop’ them and they will never play for the Boks again.

    Now I think everytime an ‘enlightened’ or ‘english’ coach get the top job – they proclaim to herald a new dawn – alas the players cannot or battle tooooo much – and the coach falls back on what ‘worked’.

    If such a coach persist – he almost always ‘fail’ – ala Carel du Plessis.

    What is missing / not done?
    The necessary ‘prep-work’ on the players to enable them to adapt, sooner and effectively!!!

  194. avatar David says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 4:37 pm

    Cab
    A genuine openside is only part of the equation. To a certain extent he’s a luxury in the pack and needs a solid platform to operate off of.
    Just having a fetcher guarantees nothing. The other pieces need to balance the whole pack.
    Jean stated a year ago that they backs realised they weren’t performing on attack and suggested it was a lack of confidence. Given Jakes emphasis on defence I reckon he’s created an air of uncertainty about the centres offensive roles, which for me is sheer bad management.

  195. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 4:42 pm

    David
    totally agree with the first paragraph of your 4.37 post.

    i am also slightly concerned as to what attacking style white has imposed on them, and while he certainly has on defense, i dont think he has on attack. its simply we have not been able to get them good enough ball. it might be your opensider argument, but i think its even more to do with the tight forwards retaining possession and competing at the breakdown.

  196. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 4:45 pm

    As for whether we can win the world cup next year, of course we can.

    We’re probably in a better position now than we were leading into RWC 1995 but that was the amateur era.

    If South African rugby can somehow pull it’s act together and everyone works towards success, we can pull it off.

    We do need the top 45 players to really work hard though. They’ll have to be prepared to make the personal sacrifices and put in the effort required in terms of diet, gym and training.

    England will be better come RWC but so should we and I believe we’ll take them in France.

    I’m quietly confident we’ll have a good Super 14 next year.

    This year we had 3 coaches coaching their first Super 14 teams, they’ve experienced it now and had a chance to settle in.

    The Sharks look promising with Muir, Plumtree and Campese, throw in the innovation of Skinstad.

    Rassie is always evolving and there is a great spirit building in Bloem.

    The Bulls have added some Aussie input to their thinking.

    The Lions, as usual, have a promising side on paper.

    Mallett is simply too good a coach not to make some impact, even from outside and Van der Merwe looks to be settling into his role.

    In general we seem to have realised the importance of protecting possession and trying to keep the ball alive.

    I expect the Super 14 coaches to make a better fist of attacking rucks than what Jake & Gert have managed with the Boks.

    Who knows, 2007 could be our year.

  197. avatar Vinnie says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 4:49 pm

    Ras, I say this every year but i really think next year we are looking good in for the s14.

    Maybe not for winning but i reckon we’re going to do well.

  198. avatar Hmmm says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 4:50 pm

    What a joke of an article?

  199. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 4:51 pm

    the fetcher argument is a strong one, and one White has conceded.

    Comment by cab — December 15, 2006 @ 4:31 pm |Edit This

    Cab,

    I have to disagree.

    I think Kabamba was a smokescreen. He certainly didn’t use him as a fetcher.

    Believe me, I was at Twickenham and Floors wasn’t operating as a fetcher, certainly not in the way that a Smith, McCaw, Burger or Waugh would play.

    So, for me, the jury is still out on whether Jake accepts he needs a genuine fetcher.

  200. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 4:52 pm

    Rasputin,
    true, i’m not sure we have a specialist fetcher in this country, perhaps baywatch.

  201. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 4:53 pm

    Vinnie

    As per your epiphany of note yesterday, we can only live in hope! :razz:

    I reckon we look more settled for 2007 than we did for 2006.

  202. avatar Hmmm says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 4:54 pm

    Comment by Rasputin — December 15, 2006 @ 4:51 pm

    Burger never fetched….he slowed down oppo ball and rucked oppo of there ball and kept 2/3 oppo players busy at one time….

    But never fetched…..

  203. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 4:54 pm

    haven’t you guys heard? Sharks are going to win it next year.

  204. avatar David says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 4:55 pm

    Cab
    The problem with relying on our tight forwards arriving at the breakdown is that by the time they do our loose forwards should already be looking to keep the ball alive. All that happens is that our big guys pile in and actually end up slowing our own ball down. By the time FdP has decided that his backs are in position, so are the opposition and we’ve lost whatever advantage we’ve had.

  205. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 4:55 pm

    actually Britz is a specialist fetcher.

  206. avatar Hmmm says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 4:55 pm

    Comment by cab — December 15, 2006 @ 4:52 pm

    Sence at last….

    Baywatch in team as fetcher with Roland Bernard on the bench as replacement for the Bokke……then I will believe we moving in the right direction and the article could be proven to be true….

  207. avatar Vinnie says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 4:55 pm

    You just cant get yourself to say Watson, can you cab?

  208. avatar Hmmm says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 4:57 pm

    Watson….

    There I sadi it, but it means nothing!!!

  209. avatar Hmmm says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 4:57 pm

    Comment by robdylan© — December 15, 2006 @ 4:54 pm

    The Vodacom Cup…..you sure you can pip the Valke this time…….

  210. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 4:57 pm

    David,
    i have no problem with your idea of the quick loosie getting their first, but at the breakdown, the tight forwards need to clean out rucks and get go-forward momentum sucking oppo loosies in, not be driven off the ball and lose possession or get static posession going backwards.

  211. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 4:58 pm

    every time he tried he got penalised, eventually carded.

  212. avatar Hmmm says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 4:58 pm

    Comment by cab — December 15, 2006 @ 4:57 pm

    ……quick loosie…..

    Nee man manne…sekere mense is besig om te eet…..

  213. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 4:59 pm

    hehehe hmm,
    if you and davidS had any say there’d be a bok team consiting of cats players who’ve held up the log for years…

  214. avatar Hmmm says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 4:59 pm

    Comment by cab — December 15, 2006 @ 4:57 pm

    ….sucking oppo’s loosies….

    Nee sies man cab?????

  215. avatar il postino says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:00 pm

    TB

    Good insights those, as usual.

    I’m off for the day. Thanks again everyone for some illuminating stuff!

  216. avatar Hmmm says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:01 pm

    Comment by cab — December 15, 2006 @ 4:57 pm

    …..driven off the ball….

    ….possession backwards….

    Ai…..

  217. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:01 pm

    watson isn’t really a fetcher either. He thinks he’s a centre.

  218. avatar David says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:01 pm

    Rasputin
    You’re quite right about Floors, I noticed it as well and as Hmmm says Schalk is not a fetcher, in fact Jake uses him as a battering ram. StM got it right when he called Schalk a 6.5.
    Schalk has probably done as much damage as good for the Boks in allowing Jake to paper over his tactical shortcomings.

  219. avatar Hmmm says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:02 pm

    Comment by cab — December 15, 2006 @ 4:59 pm

    Cats players…..

    come-on….this is grounds to be stoned to death……

  220. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:03 pm

    I’d go along with that David, Hmmm.

  221. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:03 pm

    who are the cats?

  222. avatar Hmmm says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:03 pm

    Comment by robdylan© — December 15, 2006 @ 5:01 pm

    well if he is a fetcher, he sucks as it…..

    If memory serves, he was not even in the top 5 loosies to have won t/o’s in the cc, and he played every single game…….

  223. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:04 pm

    Cheers Posty, have a good one.

  224. avatar Hmmm says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:04 pm

    Comment by Rasputin — December 15, 2006 @ 5:03 pm

    Did you enjoy that sentence?

  225. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:04 pm

    vinnie,
    does he actually fetch? same as floors great with ball in hand and they take alot of ball up, but does he fetch?

    Is he first at the breakdown, does he win trunover ball, does he have the upper body strenth to get into it on the ground? i dont know.

    Is Watson a better opensider than floors and who is the best fecther in SA if thats what we want?

  226. avatar Hmmm says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:05 pm

    Cheers posti….

    Geniet haar!

  227. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:05 pm

    Hmmm – in the CC he definitely wasn’t playing openside flank.

  228. avatar David says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:05 pm

    Cab
    South African teams have never really been able to ruck properly. It generally ends up as a massive pile up or a wrestling maul. It might be something to do with playing in a more upright stance which the harder grounds encourage.

  229. avatar Hmmm says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:06 pm

    Comment by robdylan© — December 15, 2006 @ 5:05 pm

    Want hy is te toe!!!!

  230. avatar Hmmm says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:07 pm

    Where is everybody?

  231. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:07 pm

    lol David, for the love of all that is good, dont mention the harder grounds with vinnie around…

  232. avatar Hmmm says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:08 pm

    Ah cab!

  233. avatar Hmmm says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:08 pm

    Today is my last day of work….

    I’ll only return 15/16/17 Jan….

  234. avatar Vinnie says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:09 pm

    cab,

    If anything that is the only area where Watson truly shines.

    Dude, do yourself a favour and see if you can get your hands on some of the tapes from his games.

    Every game he steals at least 4 or 5 balls. You’ll see him hit a ruck and whoops, the ball will pop oout.

    Its incredible and I think those that feel Floors is a better option are those that dont like Watson but know Jake needs such a player and Floors is the next choice.

    It truly is amazing to see and until you’ve watched some of his games its not fair to detract.

    Yes he stands very loose on attack but thats not his value in the side. His value is on defence.
    You’ll here all the notherners on here talking about how he got bounced bal bla bla.
    But they dont realise thats not what he’s there for.

    I never see Floors steal balls.

    Please do yourself a favour and get hold of some of his games.

  235. avatar Hmmm says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:09 pm

    Ghost Site!

  236. avatar Stan says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:10 pm

    kom ons praat oor karre…

  237. avatar David says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:10 pm

    Cab
    It’s a pet theory of mine as well, as you know when we were discussing/disagreeing about Jakes idea that you need big loosies in the NH.

  238. avatar Hmmm says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:10 pm

    “Every game he steals at least 4 or 5 balls. You’ll see him hit a ruck and whoops, the ball will pop oout.”

    Vinne, maybe you should get some of those stats….

    He did not even t/o 7 balls the whole of the second round!!!!!

  239. avatar Vinnie says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:11 pm

    lol cab.

    Very true. I’m trying to resist the urge to have a go.
    Fuckit I cant stop myself.

    David – its bullshit. I’ve played all over and let me tell you the ground is softer in cape town in the winter than in the uk.

    There, Ive said it. Sjoe i feel better.

    :razz:

  240. avatar Stan says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:13 pm

    Vinnie,
    jy klink nou soos Cat Stevens se I cant keep it in!

  241. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:13 pm

    David, Hmmm, whoever

    What do you think about playing Ryno van der Merwe as a fetcher?

    He’s the right stature, he already plays incredibly aggressively and takes huge contact.

  242. avatar Vinnie says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:13 pm

    :lol: Stan.

  243. avatar David says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:14 pm

    Vinnie
    The reason why the highveld teams don’t have genuine fetchers is because of the grass burns and grazes they get on the harder surfaces there if the go to ground to fight for the ball.
    Haven’t you noticed how all the forwards wait for the opposition to get there first so they’ll have something soft to land on?

  244. avatar Hmmm says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:14 pm

    Comment by Vinnie — December 15, 2006 @ 5:11 pm

    No wonder all the games in CT are always boring!!!

    We should ban teams from playing in CT….all games on the highveld….

    There I said it….. Sjoe, I feel better.

  245. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:15 pm

    Height: 1.84m
    Weight: 96kg

  246. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:15 pm

    ok Vinnie, then yeah select him.

    For all of that he’s been at the stormers for 2 seasons with schalk burger and some pretty good players, and nada…

    u are the coach, pick your run our loose-trio and a backup of 3 for the world cup squad (also please bean in mind transformation):

    to refresh:
    Burger, Floors, Watson, Joe, Spies, AJ, Wannenbery, Cronje, Rossouw, Dlulani, Wickus.

  247. avatar Vinnie says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:16 pm

    I dont think rugby should be played on glass.

    I yearn back for the days when you couldnt tell your own players from the oppo.

  248. avatar Stan says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:16 pm

    Ryno is net te klein…

  249. avatar Hmmm says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:17 pm

    Comment by Rasputin — December 15, 2006 @ 5:13 pm

    rassie already does play him as a fetcher, he actually plays part-part roles…..

    So to does Kabamba…..

    Whio ever is closest to the ruck plays the fetcher…..and the other then runs off the ball…..

  250. avatar Stan says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:17 pm

    Maar hy is groter en beter as Lulu Watson…

  251. avatar Stan says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:19 pm

    dis waar hmmm.
    Die speler naaste aan afbreekpunt word die fetcher.Kyk na Waugh en Smith.

  252. avatar Vinnie says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:19 pm

    Out of those provided…

    Watson, Juan, Roussouw

    Floors, ????, Spies.

    I have no problem with numbers as I’d play Paulse and Habs and have Ricky, Chiliboy and Floors on the bench.

  253. avatar Stan says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:20 pm

    After a good babbelaskak, i can drop a turd bigger than Keo or Watson!

  254. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:20 pm

    Mine is: run-on

    6. Burger 7. Smith 8. Rossouw

    Backup:

    6. Floors 7. AJ 8. Spies

    Ryno is of course fantastic as is hendro and baywatch.

  255. avatar Hmmm says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:20 pm

    Vinnie
    The reason why the highveld teams don’t have genuine fetchers is because of the grass burns and grazes they get on the harder surfaces there if the go to ground to fight for the ball.
    Comment by David — December 15, 2006 @ 5:14 pm

    don’t have genuine fetchers????

    Baywatch turned the most ball over of all loosies (and did not even play every game) and Roland Bernard turned over the most ball per minute….

    Or are stats only there to try and brainwash all wrt Watson?????

  256. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:20 pm

    thx for that Stan…i have the same talent.

  257. avatar Vinnie says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:21 pm

    I’m not convinced Schalk will be up to the task in 10 months.

    I’ve played after serious injury and I’ve seen other guys after serious injury and it messes badly with your head.

  258. avatar Stan says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:21 pm

    cab, Kuun and Wickus.

  259. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:21 pm

    STan en hmmm,
    thats exactly what White and Meyer say too.

  260. avatar Hmmm says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:22 pm

    Habs…..

    Who with any rugby in there brain will pick him….

    Nee man Vinnie, you been in UK tooooooo long.

    Your brain is frozen…….

  261. avatar Vinnie says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:23 pm

    cab,

    We basically agree on our sides except who our opensider will be.

    AJ is a good call in your second squad – I didnt think of him.

  262. avatar fyndraai says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:24 pm

    Non SA teams:
    Who ever is closest to the ruck plays the fetcher…..and the other then runs off the ball…..

    SA teams:
    The first 4 players to arrive at the break down go off their feet.

    That is why we have to kick after a few phases we run out of players.

  263. avatar Hmmm says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:24 pm

    Comment by cab — December 15, 2006 @ 5:21 pm

    But I’m talking of floors and ryno….who ever is closest…..

    And stan used Waugh and Smith as an example…

    You missing us here?????

  264. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:24 pm

    Vinnie,

    you are not picking Burger?

    No space for AJ or Wannenburg after theeir S12 performances and home matches in the 3N when their coming in made a huge difference.

  265. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:24 pm

    Stan,

    Phil Waugh
    Height: 175
    Weight: 100

    Ryno could put on a couple of kilos I reckon.

    He already plays that type of role from 8 anyway.

  266. avatar Vinnie says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:24 pm

    You know what I cant understand – the cats are so kak in the s14 that they finish last out of five teams but then they dominate bok selections.

    Thats just weird and for that very reason I wont include any more of them iin the side.

    Cats players, when youa rent watching, are munching chocolate bars 24/7 or they play well one game and then shockingly poorly the next.

    You want baywatch – drop two other cats players.

  267. avatar David says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:25 pm

    Hmmm
    Unfortunately it was their own ball they were turning over!

    Cab
    Spies has done nothing yet at 8. It’s a position he’ll need to get experience in and the WC is too soon.

  268. avatar Hmmm says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:25 pm

    Comment by fyndraai — December 15, 2006 @ 5:24 pm

    Bietjie te skerk gedraai met daai een bru….

  269. avatar Vinnie says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:26 pm

    cab,

    Read my comment above. Will repost for your benefit.

    I’m not convinced Schalk will be up to the task in 10 months.

    I’ve played after serious injury and I’ve seen other guys after serious injury and it messes badly with your head.

    Comment by Vinnie — December 15, 2006 @ 5:21 pm

  270. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:26 pm

    vinnie,
    yeah that injury could be a problem, lets see, but i cant see how anyone can leave out a fit raring to go schalk burger. first name down.

  271. avatar Vinnie says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:26 pm

    Spies will be greta in the next WC.

  272. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:27 pm

    thats true David, but can we leave him out of the squad with all that pace?

  273. avatar Hmmm says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:27 pm

    Comment by Vinnie — December 15, 2006 @ 5:24 pm

    There are absolutely no Ctas players what so ever in any side….

    What you on about?

  274. avatar David says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:27 pm

    Vinnie
    Who’s greta?

  275. avatar Hmmm says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:28 pm

    Comment by cab — December 15, 2006 @ 5:27 pm

    Why, he did not use any of it in the NH…

  276. avatar David says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:28 pm

    Cab
    I agree. The problem is where. How about hooker?

  277. avatar Hmmm says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:29 pm

    Comment by David — December 15, 2006 @ 5:27 pm

    Spies in the next WC….can’t you read??

  278. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:29 pm

    Dave
    put your ballas on the line. 6 players please bearing transformation in mind. run-n and their backups.

  279. avatar Hmmm says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:29 pm

    Comment by David — December 15, 2006 @ 5:28 pm

    Hehe!!

  280. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:29 pm

    lol, yeah hooker is a weakness.

  281. avatar David says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:30 pm

    Hmmm
    Is he having a sex change?

  282. avatar Stan says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:30 pm

    Burger will never fully recover. If it was any other injury yes, but not a neck.

  283. avatar Hmmm says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:30 pm

    Comment by David — December 15, 2006 @ 5:30 pm

    It would seem so, ask Vinnie, he posted it first!!

  284. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:31 pm

    Stan,
    yip, both excellent opensiders as is Dlulani and Kuun is only going to get better.

  285. avatar Stan says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:32 pm

    Gary Botha and the Strauss cousins are more than good enough at hooker.

  286. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:34 pm

    actually that injury is very worrying, onsecond thoughts not sure he will be the same guy, u can imagine he probably thought he was pretty much indestructibe and he looked it the way he thru his body around, but thats got to really damaage your confidence.

    take huge character to come back to the same level.

  287. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:35 pm

    yeah Gary Botha is very good and has deserved his selection with continual good play, but does he offer the dynamism of Strauss, Brits, etc? Mealuamu is all over the field.

  288. avatar Vinnie says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:35 pm

    I wouldnt leave him out cab but I just dont know if he’s still up to the task.

    Gone are the days when he puts his head in front of every second guy’s knees.

    I dont think he’s going to be the same player.

    the head’s a funny thing.

    He might just become a cleverer player though…

  289. avatar Stan says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:35 pm

    Spies
    Juan
    Danie.
    backup is Wickus and AJ.
    Spies is the fastest, make him the opensider.

  290. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:37 pm

    we dont want clever, we want the old mullett chucking his body at everything.

  291. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:38 pm

    few more inspiring sites on a rugby field then watching Schalla going into one of his tackle-everything-that-moves modes.

  292. avatar Vinnie says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:38 pm

    I do fear those days are over.

  293. avatar Stan says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:38 pm

    You cannot compare Meealamu with Gary.
    Gary is a better scrummer and his lineout work is immaculate, especially with Pakslae, Matfield en Bakkies.He does the basics of what a hooker should do better than Kevin. In a struggling pack, Meealamu will dissapear as he has to play tighter.

  294. avatar Vinnie says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:39 pm

    Amen to that.

  295. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:39 pm

    hehe Stan, slightly different from the WP selection.

  296. avatar Hmmm says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:39 pm

    Stan…

    Spies is not mongrel enough….he cannot fetch at all…..

  297. avatar David says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:39 pm

    Cab Ok
    Run on.
    Watson 6, AJ/Juan 7 and 8.
    Kabamba, Hendro, Joe (if he comes right in the S14)
    Rossouw and Pieterse can go as locks and still remain a choice for 7 and 8.
    I’ve left out Schalk until he’s over his injury. Otherwise Schalk for Hendro.

  298. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:40 pm

    yo! Who’s still here?

  299. avatar Hmmm says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:40 pm

    Cheers guys…pop in later…..

    Later….
    Later….

    Later….

    Later……

  300. avatar Vinnie says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:40 pm

    I agree Hmmm. Spies is a runner not a wrestler.

  301. avatar Hmmm says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:40 pm

    Comment by robdylan© — December 15, 2006 @ 5:40 pm

    Not me!

  302. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:41 pm

    Stan,
    interesting about Mealamu, perhaps u are right, but he seems to be able to play helluiva tight when necessary, loves the physical stuff.

  303. avatar Hmmm says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:41 pm

    Comment by Vinnie — December 15, 2006 @ 5:40 pm

    Starting to wise up I see….

  304. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:44 pm

    David,
    leaving out Spies and Burger (lets say his fit)?

    must admit

    Watson, Smith and AJ could be very interesting.

  305. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:44 pm

    sorry got the burger bit.

  306. avatar Stan says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:45 pm

    make no mistake, Meaalamu is one hard tough bastard, not to be taken lightly. but the extra 10-15kg is seriously needed at that level.

  307. avatar Stan says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:47 pm

    cab, so you want to drop Pretorius or Steyn to make place for Lulu?

  308. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:47 pm

    think u’ve got to give Rossouw his dues at no 8 for the NH especially if Matfield is to play at 5.

  309. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:49 pm

    lol stan,
    no but they make a good point about a specialist fetcher, perhaps we should listen more.

    got to combine the creativity skills of the south with the toughness of the north.

  310. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:50 pm

    its like having two countries within a country with all the contrasting inbetween styles.

  311. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:51 pm

    who’s Lulu?

  312. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:52 pm

    the sharks’ ex no 8.

  313. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:53 pm

    Sowers?

  314. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:54 pm

    the hard man in pink?

  315. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:54 pm

    the great hard pink man

  316. avatar Stan says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:55 pm

    Lulu Watson…..

  317. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:55 pm

    hhehehe…no luke

    sowers was another one playing damn well until he bust his arm over here, Stade were very impressed. his repacelement Perenssi is bladdy good tho also.

  318. avatar Stan says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:56 pm

    I think pakslae had an outstanding tour and he should stay at 8. he can only get better and faster if he loses another 5 kilos.

  319. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:56 pm

    oh – that oke. Why would you want him? To lead the hymn signing in the changeroom?

  320. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:57 pm

    Stan, Rossouw can move around the park for such a massive unit. he’s the size of corry but far more mobile.

  321. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:57 pm

    sowers will come back to Durbs… I’m almost sure about that.

  322. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 5:59 pm

    pity he has bad hands and appalling technique at the point of contact.

  323. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:00 pm

    I mean Pakslae…

  324. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:01 pm

    he does have poor hands, i cant understand itm he used to be flyhalf and shows good skills at times.

    the other good thing about okes like Pakslae, Bakkies and CJ is they have a certain whiff about them, a no-nonsense side which demands respect from the opposition and keeps them honest.

  325. avatar Stan says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:02 pm

    a year ago he was a failure as as loosie, and then lost about 5kg by doing more speedwork and less power.

  326. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:02 pm

    you mean they smell? I can believe that…

    Pakslae used to play flyahlf? Really? Shit…

  327. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:02 pm

    all the great bok packs, had these types, we’ve had dirty, but thats different, bakkies has cleaned up his act, and old CJ and Rossouw have plenty grunt.

  328. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:03 pm

    he’s still a pretty shit number 6…

  329. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:03 pm

    lol

  330. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:03 pm

    AJ has also been known to hand out discipline to the opponents

  331. avatar Stan says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:03 pm

    where does the flyhalf part comes into this?

  332. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:04 pm

    not sure, stanman… ask cab.

  333. avatar Stan says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:05 pm

    cab?

  334. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:06 pm

    cab?
    cabbie?
    cabster?
    CABMAN?

  335. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:06 pm

    A pack to keep all happy, FS front rankers, a couple of BB meneers, a sharks captain and a WP fetcher.

    1. Os 2. Smit 3. CJ
    4. Bakkies 5. Matfield
    6. Watson 7. Smith 8. Rossouw

  336. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:07 pm

    caberoonie?

  337. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:07 pm

    apparantly Pakslae used to play flyhalf at school if u can believe that?

  338. avatar Duiwel says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:07 pm

    Cab,
    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
    i haven’t heard such propaganda since
    apartheid.

  339. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:08 pm

    Voories on the bench? Muller, BJ, Botha and?

  340. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:09 pm

    where did he go to school?

    I meant Gary Botha above…

  341. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:09 pm

    my job here is done, Lulu has to be selected.

    …oops there’s still transformation. its impossible.

  342. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:10 pm

    lol Duiwel,
    what the part about Pakslae at school or my entire piece?

  343. avatar Stan says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:10 pm

    Hallo seun van Satan!

  344. avatar DavidS says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:10 pm

    Duiwel

    Haven’t been in SA for a while have you?

    Nothing’s changed.

    The Propagandists have changed but that’s about all.

    Nowadays the Swart/Rooi Gevaar is no longer the ultimate excuse.

    Legacy of Apartheid is the magic phrase.

    Hoe gaan dit BTW

    Suspect cab is Jake White and he has managed to brainwasg several of my erstwhile comrades into thinking he’s right after all.

    Bad memories fade quickly…

  345. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:10 pm

    kabamba’s a better colour than Bible Boy. Also a better player.

  346. avatar Stan says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:11 pm

    cabbage patch kid, praat met ons!

  347. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:12 pm

    DavidS,
    i’m afraid my propaganda is simply not working in that case, since there are only 3 that support White long b4 i presented my ramblings.

  348. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:12 pm

    hoesit dawie

  349. avatar The Brand© says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:13 pm

    Robd

    Gary Botha:
    L/S Magalies Kruin in Pta
    H/S Overkruin Pta St 6 – 8/9
    H/S Waterkloof St 9 & 10

  350. avatar The Brand© says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:13 pm

    Robd

    Gary played flank in school

  351. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:13 pm

    klofies? Ag nee, man

  352. avatar Stan says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:13 pm

    I know that Drikus hatting played flyhalf until he was in St8.
    Gary Botha went to Affies where he played flank.

  353. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:13 pm

    huh Stan?

    ek het geantwoord, die losskakel ding was pakslae. wat els?

  354. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:15 pm

    crikey, imagine drikus at flyhalf, eina. he had a helluva boot actually, i think he skopped one oke when in a ruck too.

  355. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:15 pm

    drikus? Potato man?

  356. avatar Stan says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:15 pm

    hoe seker is jy oor dit?

  357. avatar DavidS says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:16 pm

    my job here is done, Lulu has to be selected.

    …oops there’s still transformation. its impossible.

    Comment by cab — December 15, 2006 @ 6:09 pm |Edit This

    Ja boet

    Sorry you’ve lost it. Maybe take some more lithium and things will look up…

  358. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:17 pm

    die pakslae bit, omtrent 80%, ek check, gee my n oomblik…

  359. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:17 pm

    Eggplant?

  360. avatar Stan says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:18 pm

    i am sure about Drikus.
    when playing for the Bulls, he was also the second fastest over 40m with rugby boots. Joost was the fastest.
    Drikus jumped the highest, with Joost second!

  361. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:18 pm

    rutabaga?

  362. avatar DavidS says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:18 pm

    tHE CONVERTED…

    Howzit Rob

    How’s that horrible little island that would be cooly swa,ped if a meteor struck the Atlantic…

  363. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:19 pm

    button mushroom?

  364. avatar Stan says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:19 pm

    when they had to kick for touch, Naas would give the ball to Drikus.
    Hy kon n bal skop dat sy nate lostrek!

  365. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:19 pm

    it’s very festive here…

  366. avatar Duiwel says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:20 pm

    Cab,
    sorry mate,
    about the entire piece.
    It is as if you took the brief
    glimpses of side and
    blown it up with such
    positiveness that its thrice
    the side it Could be.
    Could be depending on a multitude of factors.

    The fact is our side is piss poor.
    With Bakkies and vic and Jaun
    maybe we’ve got two locks
    and a 8.
    Kabamba is untried.
    We can blow him up all we like
    but Richie and jerry will
    fckn munch him up.

    The other factors is a mix of
    attitude,the lack of skill,
    no commitment at all in defense,
    laughable finishing after
    infantile handling skills.
    I’ve got more chance of penetrating
    the top 5′s defense with a bribe than
    with these spineless wankers
    you prophesise to be Springbokke.

    Hallo Dawie,
    how are you doing?
    Can i still call Shields
    a K*boetie or may i not?

  367. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:21 pm

    stan,
    cant find anything, perhaps talking kak, but think read it somewhere…the bit i remember was that he went for some trials, not sure if craven week at flyhalf, but it might be nonsense. Jacques Fourie i think also played flyhalf, but thats more belieavle i guess.

  368. avatar Duiwel says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:21 pm

    Caught 2 rainbows earlier,
    will send pictures tonight.
    Later all.

  369. avatar Stan says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:22 pm

    hallo jou parabat…

  370. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:22 pm

    mossie def did play flyhalf at monnas.

  371. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:23 pm

    LMAO at 6.19

    ahah hahahahah … cracker! “nate losstrek” …. BWAHAHAHAAH

  372. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:23 pm

    duiwel – were there decent pots of gold?

  373. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:25 pm

    Duiwel,
    no doubt some very valid succint points.

    i think the third stanza is particularly poignant, dare i say beautiful?

  374. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:26 pm

    LOL … surprised i got off so lightly.

  375. avatar Stan says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:27 pm

    duiwel is jy daar?

  376. avatar Stan says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:28 pm

    maar ek dink nogsteeds jy praat kak oor Danie wat flyhlf gespeel het.
    Tipiese vaalie…..

  377. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:29 pm

    lol…miskien

  378. avatar Stan says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:29 pm

    LOL … surprised i got off so lightly.

    Comment by cab — December 15, 2006 @ 6:26 pm

    Dis net omdat jy n vaalie is. ons alaml weet mos dat julle nie veel van rugby af weet nie….

  379. avatar Stan says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:30 pm

    duiwel jou hoenderhoer, antwoord my!

  380. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:31 pm

    ek het net nou my broek gepis … nate losstrek … ek wonder of ek kan dit vir StM kan translate?

  381. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:33 pm

    Don’t know if this will come out correctly.

    Springbok Rugby fitness norms

    Playing position Body fat Explosive power Speed

    7 Skinfolds (mm) Vert Jump (cm) 10m (sec) 40m (sec)
    Inside backs <56 (9%) 65 1.65 5.25
    Outside backs <56 (9%) 68 1.68 5.10
    Loose forwards <72 (10%) 62 1.72 5.30
    Locks <90 (12%) 65 1.75 5.50
    Hookers <72 (11%) 60 1.75 5.50
    Props <96 (12%) 55 1.80 5.65

    Strength Anaerobic Capacity Aerobic Capacity
    Bench Press (kg/kg.bw) Squat (kg/kg.bw) Repeat Sprint Ability (m) Bleep Test (Level) 3km run (min/sec)
    Inside backs 1.3 1.3 780 13.5 11.15
    Outside backs 1.3 1.6 780 13.5 11.15
    Loose forwards 1.3 1.6 760 13.0 11.45
    Locks 1.5 1.6 750 12.5 12.15
    Hookers 1.5 1.8 750 13.0 12.00
    Props 1.5 1.8 720 11.5 12.45

    Notes: 10m and 40m sprint must be executed on a rugby field.
    Bench press and squat must be executed with an olympic bar.
    Repeated sprint must be executed on a rugby field.
    3km run must be executed with tekkies on tartan or tar.

  382. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:34 pm

    Measuring explosive power

    Vertical jump test

    The vertical jump test measures leg power. One common way of performing this test is to stand side- on to a wall and reach up with the hand closest to the wall, keeping the feet flat on the ground. The highest point the fingertips can reach is marked. The athlete then jumps vertically as high as possible to touch the wall at the highest point of the jump. The difference between the reach height and the jump height is the score.

    The Springbok locks obviously need to be able to jump high in the lineout, and thus their vertical jump figure should be at least 65cm. This test doesn’t just test the ability to leap up, however – it also gives an indication of explosive power, which is very important for the backs.

    Very good explosive power, indicated by the vertical jump, is in the 61-70cm range for men and 51-60cm for women. More than that is excellent. The average is about 41-50 for men and 31-40 for women.

    10m Sprint
    Similarly, the 10m sprint, which is done on a rugby field, tests explosive power – specifically, the ability to accelerate rapidly and powerfully. This is particularly important for the backs, but most of all for the inside backs when they make a dash for a gap in the opposition’s defence. Thus, their maximum time to run the 10m is only 1.65 seconds.

  383. avatar Stan says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:36 pm

    ek wonder of ek kan dit vir StM kan translate?

    Comment by cab — December 15, 2006 @ 6:31 pm

    He could kick a ball that the stitching would pop or come undone.

  384. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:38 pm

    hendriks had the highest standing jump at the Cats and yes its used to indicate explosive power predominantly, interesting about Joost, Drikus was helluva fast.

  385. avatar cab says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:38 pm

    not quite the same is it Stan.

  386. avatar Stan says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:39 pm

    Joost was provincial high jumper at school.

  387. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:39 pm

    Vleis Visagie & Daniesaurus both went to Hoërskool Rob Ferreira, Witrivier.

    Danie was born in Sabie.

  388. avatar Stan says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:43 pm

    Ja, sekere goed kan jy eenvoudig nie vertaal nie.
    Groot kop soos n bazaarbrood.
    Klein koppie soos n paartie frikkadel.
    Omkrullippe soos n bioskoop seat.
    intrek hol soos n hyena.
    lang gesig soos n spaanse donkie hings.
    skree soos varkies by n trog…

  389. avatar David says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:48 pm

    Rasputin
    Now, what are the standards for skill, positional intelligence and talent?

  390. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:50 pm

    David,

    To be born in New Zealand!

  391. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 6:51 pm

    Apparently vegetarians are 5 IQ points more intelligent than meat eaters on average.

    Maybe we should cut out meat from the Boks diet…

  392. avatar David says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 7:05 pm

    Rasputin
    I think it means that more people with a high IQ don’t eat meat.
    It’s a bit too late for our boys.

  393. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 7:29 pm

    so what’s new?

  394. avatar redj says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 7:31 pm

    Cab – respect.

    Nothing fuzzy about your contribution.

    A serious dissection of the positives surrounding our beloved Bokke.

    May it come to pass!

  395. avatar Duiwel says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 7:32 pm

    Hallo Russian!

    Hallo Stanley,
    you Bloubulballas.

  396. avatar Duiwel says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 7:37 pm

    Ghostsite,
    Russian,Donner en Dawie
    gooi my vissies op toé man.

  397. avatar Duiwel says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 7:38 pm

    Ghostsite.

  398. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 7:41 pm

    I aint afraid of no ghosts

  399. avatar Duiwel says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 7:42 pm

    ghostsite

  400. avatar Duiwel says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 7:43 pm

    Howzit RD,
    You read Cab’s piece i take it?

  401. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 7:43 pm

    Haven’t received any pics, Duiweltjie.

  402. avatar redj says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 7:44 pm

    Duiwel

    Manne praat van stink vis.

    Watse ding is dit?

  403. avatar Duiwel says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 7:46 pm

    Is op pad Bolshevik,
    Redj ek weet nie,
    Moet forel wees.

    RD,you sleeping ,boet?

  404. avatar Duiwel says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 7:49 pm

    Like talking to myself.

  405. avatar Duiwel says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 7:51 pm

    Off for a rokie and a heineken.
    Back in a bit.

  406. avatar Duiwel says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 7:52 pm

    Yes Later Duiwel,
    see ya inna bit.

  407. avatar Duiwel says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 7:53 pm

    fknghostsite.

  408. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 8:04 pm

    Yes Later Duiwel,
    see ya inna bit.

    Comment by Duiwel — December 15, 2006 @ 7:52 pm |Edit This

    Hehehehe

    If a Duiwel talks in the woods, does anyone hear him?

    Talking to yourself is better than nothing, Duiwel.

    How’s the weather there, mild?

  409. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 8:05 pm

    I believe the ski season has just been rescued. Was looking touch and go for a while.

  410. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 8:07 pm

    Camel cigs nogal!

    Fumer tue.

  411. avatar fyndraai says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 8:11 pm

    Here is some vertical jump numbers from the NBA

    Kobe Bryant 38″=96cm
    Shaquille O’Neal 32″=81cm
    Vince Carter 43″ = 109cm
    Karl Malone 28″=71cm
    Steve Francis 40″=101cm
    Antonio McDyess 37″=94cm
    Lamar Odom 32″=81cm
    Desmond Mason 38″=96cm
    Allen Iverson 41″=104cm

    Shaq also weighs 147kgs

  412. avatar Duiwel says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 8:11 pm

    Mild se gat.
    Freezing more like.
    Off to Haute Savoie for Xmas
    for ,hopefully a bit of skiing.
    Still warm and very little water.
    Worrying.
    camel lights,supposed to kill you
    off slower.

  413. avatar Duiwel says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 8:14 pm

    Talking to myself is the only
    sensible conversation at times.

  414. avatar Reinhardt says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 8:40 pm

    Ja Rusputin

    Baie lang tyd. Was maar besig deur die jaar.

    Maar die site lyk baie smart, goeie werk!

  415. avatar The Brand© says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 9:34 pm

    Ras

    Thanks – 100% OK

  416. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 9:36 pm

    Cheers TB

    Reinhardt, great to see you again. I hope you noticed that we all kept your secret! :wink:

  417. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 9:39 pm

    P.S.

    Thanks for the comment on the site! The look is all down to Kandas & Dummykick, who I thought have done a wonderful job.

    Hope you’ll keep popping in for a visit, always good to see old friends.

  418. avatar redj says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 9:39 pm

    Ras

    Now that Rh is back pray do tell what the secret is?

    Need to know who we dealing with….

  419. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 9:44 pm

    :razz:

    I can’t, Redj, we swore a solemn promise!

    However, if Reindeer wants to say what it is, then no problems! :wink:

  420. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 9:47 pm

    You ever been to the Kruger, Redj?

  421. avatar Donner says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 9:50 pm

    Hello guys.

    Just want to pop in to say thank you for a great year. Need to get to bed a bit earlier than normal.

    One need to be well rested to start a holiday. :grin:

    Thank you everyone for your contributions this year past. Have a great festive season and please drive safely. Will be seeing you in the 2007 again.

    Maybe a popin once or twice while working on the background of the site, but I won;t promise.

    Enjoy.

  422. avatar redj says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 9:52 pm

    Ras

    Yep, next clue pleaaase!

    Donner

    Go well and in peace.

  423. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 10:22 pm

    cheers Donner.

  424. avatar manvanstaal says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 10:29 pm

    The script is written for an upset, NZ will choke and the Boks will win it.

    Ai jirre, as die statement maar net waar word. Sal my oneindige plesier verskaf.

  425. avatar Boertjie says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 10:48 pm

    Is daar enige vorm van lewe,
    of is dit ‘n spOOkwerf?

  426. avatar Boertjie says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 11:05 pm

    Lyk my tot die jongeling
    het vanaand iets aan.
    Looi seker ‘n Franse poppie
    vir ‘n verandering.
    As hy “looi” kan spel – bygesê.

  427. avatar Duiwel says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 11:26 pm

    Waars my vissies,Dawie?
    Donner?
    ghostsite.
    Dankie Dawie,jy’s seker n aanklaer.

  428. avatar Boertjie says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 11:48 pm

    Gh0st site ja.
    Donner is vroeg innie kooi -
    moet vroegoggend
    die woonwa Agulhas toe looi.

  429. avatar Boertjie says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 11:52 pm

    “Talking to yourself is better than nothing, Duiwel.
    - Comment by Ras earlier.

    Ja, you must only start worrying
    when you start answering yourself.
    :wink:

    DUIWEL
    Daar’s ‘n boodskap van Ras dat hy
    nie jou vissies gekry het nie.

  430. avatar Boertjie says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 11:53 pm

    Ja, Boertjie, I’ve noticed
    you sometimes talk to yourself.
    That’s the best way to win an argument.

  431. avatar Boertjie says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 11:54 pm

    Hehehe Boertjie
    Sounds me you are also married?

  432. avatar Boertjie says:
    December 15th, 2006 at 11:56 pm

    Ja, Boet – correct.
    They say the best way to a good
    marriage is twofold:
    1. Admit when you lose an argument.
    2. Ignore it and shut your trap when you win one.

  433. avatar Boertjie says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 12:01 am

    Boertjie
    How long you’ve been married?
    Have you heard this one:

    When a man steals your wife, there is no better revenge than to let him keep her.
    Sacha Guitry

  434. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 12:02 am

    Howzit Robd

  435. avatar Boertjie says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 12:02 am

    Hehehe Boet. Good advice.

  436. avatar Boertjie says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 12:04 am

    Boertjie
    Ja, I suppose this is also true:

    After marriage, husband and wife become two sides of a coin; they just can’t face each other, but still they stay together.
    Hemant Joshi

    Hehehe.

  437. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 12:05 am

    fine and you?

  438. avatar Boertjie says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 12:06 am

    Keep them coming, Boet –
    I’m wetting myself :lol:

  439. avatar Boertjie says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 12:07 am

    Robbies!
    Stop inter bloody rupting me – I’m
    on a roll, can’t you see?
    :wink:

  440. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 12:08 am

    peace

  441. avatar Boertjie says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 12:10 am

    Boertjie
    Here’s another one:

    By all means marry. If you get a good wife, you’ll be happy. If you get a bad one, you’ll become a philosopher.
    Socrates

    Clever guy, old Soc. I’m third year Ph.D. You?

  442. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 12:11 am

    jammer ou mater!

  443. avatar Boertjie says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 12:11 am

    What’s up, Rob?
    Why you still up and about?

  444. avatar fyndraai says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 12:15 am

    In Atlanta is ‘n Hongaarse slagter wat die lekkerste boerewors maak.
    Ek het nounet die vuur aangesteek en moet gou mieliepap gaan koop.

  445. avatar Boertjie says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 12:16 am

    Speak up! Can’t hear a thing!
    You were saying?

  446. avatar Boertjie says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 12:17 am

    Fokkit Fyndraai – kan ek saam eet?
    Kry julle mieliepap daar?
    Met sousjjjjh!

  447. avatar fyndraai says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 12:19 am

    Ek maak die sous self. Die mieliemeel is lekker grof soos ek dit laaik.
    Tot later.

  448. avatar Duke Toaby says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 12:20 am

    Fyndraai

    Come to Calgary, Canada, butchery called SA Meats -> Get my wors, biltong, Mrs Balls, Koeksisters, milktert etc from there. Even better than in the mother land!

  449. avatar Duke Toaby says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 12:21 am

    Gotta love butcher who grew up in the Kalahari!

    Must admit, I have not had pap & sous for a while though

  450. avatar Boertjie says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 12:24 am

    Ah, Duke – you need pap en sous to round it off :wink:
    Calgary is Rocky Country?
    Ever been to one of the annual SA Festivals there?

  451. avatar fyndraai says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 12:56 am

    You can get most of those things somewhere in Atlanta too you just have to be prepared to spend a lot of time in your car.
    I am not so attached to the old SA stuff, but this wors is realy good. I also have some big meat eating afrikaner friends that will make the trip on a regular basis.

  452. avatar Duiwel says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 1:19 am

    I’ve seen a fair amount of meateating,
    fatbastard porra’s,souties,xhosa’s
    and dikgat zulu’s.

  453. avatar Duiwel says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 1:20 am

    Waars my vissies julle bliksems.
    ghost site alweer.

  454. avatar Vinnie says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 1:35 am

    Julle dorners dronk?

  455. avatar fyndraai says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 1:39 am

    Too get back to the subject.
    Who is going to win the BCS title game. Ohio-State or Florida. Or should Michigan be playing instead of Florida?

  456. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 1:58 am

    Hoezit Rasputin
    How are you this fair evening

  457. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 1:58 am

    Nooit bru

    I’m well, you?

  458. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 1:59 am

    Ach, you know…
    Tootling along
    Crisp evening, isn’t it?

  459. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 2:00 am

    Ja, it’s got a mild bite to it
    So, how’s those Stormers, hey?

  460. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 2:01 am

    Sjoe, man, they’re brilliant
    Only one winner of the Super 14 next year
    What’s your take on polonium?

  461. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 2:02 am

    Polonium?
    Well, I believe it’s okay in sandwiches with a bit of horseradish sauce.

  462. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 2:02 am

    Is that so?
    A Russian I bumped into gave me some, said it would add heat to my meals.

  463. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 2:03 am

    I dare say.
    The only problem is, polonium is reconstituted meat, pretty bad for the old cholesterol levels, you know.
    Still, one mustn’t turn one’s nose up at a free gift.

  464. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 2:05 am

    Exactly! That’s my philosophy, a polonium in the hand is worth two in the bush, so to speak. What, what.

  465. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 2:05 am

    Ever spent a night in Paris, Rasputin?

  466. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 2:06 am

    No, can’t say I’ve ever had the fortune of meeting her.

  467. avatar fyndraai says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 2:06 am

    hoeveel slapies voor die S14 begin?

  468. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 2:06 am

    So, what’s all this about ‘Thousands’ I keep reading about on here?

  469. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 2:07 am

    I don’t know mate, I think they’re those colourful little balls on fairy cakes.

  470. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 2:07 am

    Wow

  471. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 2:08 am

    Yip

  472. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 2:08 am

    All a bit childish really, can’t understand the fuss.

  473. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 2:09 am

    Gee golly whizz, would you just take a look at that!

    Latest comments made on:
    Why the Boks Will Lift the World Cup Again
    Why the Boks Will Lift the World Cup Again
    Why the Boks Will Lift the World Cup Again
    Why the Boks Will Lift the World Cup Again
    Why the Boks Will Lift the World Cup Again
    Why the Boks Will Lift the World Cup Again
    Why the Boks Will Lift the World Cup Again
    Why the Boks Will Lift the World Cup Again
    Why the Boks Will Lift the World Cup Again
    Why the Boks Will Lift the World Cup Again

    Total comments: 143002

    Well done, Rasputin, old fruit.

  474. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 2:10 am

    Fyndraai, te veel!

  475. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 2:12 am

    Friday, the 2nd of February.

    Heaven help us.

  476. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 2:13 am

    Fyndraai, which SA team do you support?

  477. avatar fyndraai says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 2:25 am

    Da Bulls

  478. avatar fyndraai says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 2:26 am

    If HM can expand his game-plan to include a back line that can attack and if they learn to recycle the ball faster they can do well.

  479. avatar fyndraai says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 2:29 am

    The NFL gets fairly interesting at this time of the year, so shortly after the superbowl, I can switch back to rugby.

  480. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 2:35 am

    You’re lucky!

  481. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 2:36 am

    Bulls have a good squad. Many seasoned players in there.

    It’s really time they brought home the big one.

  482. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 2:37 am

    To be perfectly frank, I don’t care which SA team brings home the bacon, obviously I’d like it if it was the Stormers but it’s high time a SA team won the damned thing.

  483. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 2:39 am

    You guys need one very quick loosie and you’re on your way.

  484. avatar fyndraai says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 2:39 am

    Same here.
    I am a Bulls fan who thinks Luke Watson should be in the Bok squad.

  485. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 2:40 am

    After looking for years for his long lost sister, Irena Gallier (Nastassja Kinski), Paul (Malcolm McDowell) finally finds her and has her come to New Orleans, where he’s currently living. While there, she gradually discovers the truth about their bizarre past and falls for a zoo curator.

    First, a caveat. Director Paul Schrader, in his interview on the Cat People DVD, says that he regrets that he didn’t just change the name of the film to remove some of the perception that this is a remake of Jacques Tourneur’s Cat People from 1942. It is wrong to look at this as a remake. Aside from mostly superficial similarities, Schrader’s Cat People really has little to do with the original–no more in common than, say, The Grudge (2004) and The Ring (2002), assuming that “Kayako” from The Grudge would have been named “Samara” instead, or no more similar than any two random vampire films. Irena’s first name is the same, there are similarities in her background story and what she is, she visits a zoo, she falls in love with a man with the same first name of “Oliver”, and there are maybe two and a half scenes similar to Tourneur’s film. That’s it. Yes, I’m a fan of Tourneur’s film, too–it’s my favorite out of his collaborations with producer Val Lewton. But you have to forget about Tourneur’s film when watching this one. This is a remarkable work of cinematic art in its own right, with its own story and goals.

    Schrader’s Cat People deserves a 10 on visual terms alone. The cinematography, production design and lighting are nothing short of genius throughout the film. Almost every shot is one that deserves to be paused and studied. Director of photography John Bailey never ceases to find interesting perspectives, angles and tracking. The sets are elaborate and exquisitely constructed for visual impact. In conjunction with the lighting, the film is mired in a rich, varied palette of colors similar to (and as good as) Dario Argento’s best work.

    Of course the film is more graphic than Tourneur’s–it would be almost impossible for it not to be, both in terms of blood/gore and nudity, and all of that is shot brilliantly as well. The only cinematic instance of blood that I can think of that is as effective as the scene in this film where blood runs by Irena’s shoes and down a drain is the shower scene from Alfred Hitchcock’s Psycho (1960). The event leading up to this image has more impact of most similar scenes, as well. The copious amounts of nudity throughout the film are never gratuitous (not that I have anything against gratuitous nudity, mind you), but always interestingly blocked, with some grander artistic purpose. These scenes range from creating juxtapositions between prurient voyeurism and horror, to surrender to and (sometimes perverse) domination of animality, to interior psychological conflicts–just look at the ingenious placement of a window frames during a full frontal nudity shot in Oliver’s “swamp cabin”.

    The music–both the score and the incidental songs, are just as good. Most of it is an eerie, synthesized score by Giorgio Moroder. It often approaches the tasty moodiness of Brian Eno’s excellent work with David Bowie (Low, Heroes, Lodger), which is perhaps ironic in light of the fact that Bowie contributed a great song for the closing credits. The limited incidental music–such as Jimmy Hughes’ “Why Not Tonight?” during the cab ride to the zoo–fits the mood of the film perfectly.

    Of course, the film isn’t all just visuals and music. There’s an intriguing, surreal story here, and great performances from a seemingly odd combination of actors–ranging from Kinski and McDowell to Ed Begley, Jr. and John Laroquette. Setting the film in New Orleans was an inspired choice, as it allowed for eerie voodoo-weirdness ala Angel Heart (1987) and moody swamp vistas ala Down By Law (1986) to seep into the already creepy story. Setting the more dreamlike imagery in a desert (albeit a studio-created desert) also helped draw me into the film, as there is probably no environment I find more aesthetically captivating.

    I first saw Cat People as a teen during its theatrical run. I didn’t like it near as much then, and that fact caused me to put off re-watching it for a number of years. I think at that time, the film may have been too slow for me, I may not have understood it very well, and I certainly didn’t have the visual and overall aesthetic appreciation that I currently have. Now, I think it’s a masterpiece–perhaps one of the better films of the 1980s. It’s worth checking out at least once, and if you’ve seen it awhile ago and think you didn’t like it so well, it’s worth giving a second chance.

  486. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 2:43 am

    With JP Nel, Frikkie Welsh, Wynand Olivier and Dries Scholtz you have powerful units available for midfield, if only they’d learn to offload out of the tackle consistently.

    I do fear that when you throw Roets in there with them it’s all a bit samey samey.

    Despite what others say, I think Olivier has been developing very well.

  487. avatar fyndraai says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 2:45 am

    I’ve never heard of this film but the copious amounts of nudity has me interested.

  488. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 2:45 am

    I’ve been moersa impressed with Danie Rossouw’s conditioning for such a huge guy.

    If he’s any indication of how the rest of the Bulls will be, 2007 could very well be your year.

    Bulls fans deserve the big one.

  489. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 2:47 am

    I’ve never heard of this film but the copious amounts of nudity has me interested.

    Comment by fyndraai — December 16, 2006 @ 2:45 am |Edit This

    :razz:

    Trust me, you WANT to see Nastassja Kinski in copious amounts of nudity! You really do!

  490. avatar fyndraai says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 2:48 am

    My pet peeve with the Saffa teams is the tendency to go to the ground around the break down instead of staying on your feet and getting the ball. Unfortunately the Bulls seems to be the worst in this.
    I do however like their structured physical game and think with a few small tweaks they can make it to the top.

  491. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 2:49 am

    Not that she’s ever been shy of nudity.

  492. avatar Duiwel says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 2:49 am

    Russian,
    205,206
    BWAHAHHAHAHAHAHA!

  493. avatar fyndraai says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 2:51 am

    My wife does not allow me to get rental movies. I always come home with off-beat stuff.
    Have you ever seen “American Strays” or “Twin Falls Idaho”?

  494. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 2:56 am

    Yip

    - Going to ground unforced
    - Not being proficient at passing out of the tackle
    - Not being able to go beyond 4 or 5 phases
    - Not swivelling in the tackle
    - Falling the wrong way in the tackle

    all SA problems.

  495. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 2:58 am

    :wink: Duiwel

    Fyndraai, Twin Falls sounds familiar

    Have you ever seen Blue Velvet?

  496. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 3:00 am

    In the early moments of “Blue Velvet” we see idealized small town images – blooming red roses and immaculate white picket fences – accompanied by the sounds of the gentle Bobby Vinton pop tune that gives the film its title. If you sense something unsettling about this perfection, that’s only appropriate. “Blue Velvet” is a David Lynch film, you see, and it won’t be long at all before a clean-cut college student comes across a rotting ear in an open field.

    Jeffrey Beaumont (Kyle MacLachlan) is the boy who finds the ear, and Sandy Williams (Laura Dern) is the blonde policeman’s daughter who assists Jeffrey when he decides to investigate the truth about his disturbing discovery. Sandy and Jeffrey link the ear to night club singer Dorothy Vallens (Isabella Rossellini) and later, a deranged man named Frank Booth (Dennis Hopper).

    “I don’t know if you’re a detective or a pervert,” Sandy tells Jeffrey when he decides to sneak into Dorothy’s apartment. As Jeffrey becomes sexually entangled with Dorothy, we can only cast similar doubt.

    It’s true that “Blue Velvet”‘s dark mysteries have the power to repulse. Voyeurism, rape, torture, and murder are all key to the plot. Yet the film is also spellbinding in its beauty. Vibrant colors and ominous shadows offer gorgeous contrast – call it Technicolor noir – and the film is rife with unforgettable imagery. Moments big and small, from MacLachlan playing with a child’s birthday hat to Dean Stockwell’s show-stopping lip-synch of Roy Orbison’s “In Dreams”, are as haunting as anything you will see at the movies anywhere.

    The acting is top-notch. MacLachlan is just right as the lost innocent Jeffrey, and Hopper shreds the screen as his depraved counterpoint Frank. Rossellini’s performance as Dorothy is devastating and extremely courageous: this is her defining moment as an actress.

    “Blue Velvet” is perhaps the quintesstential David Lynch film. His strange humor and painterly gift for creating stunning images are prominently on display, and the film illustrates Lynch’s contradictory impulses toward unbridled nastiness and aw-shucks sweetness like no other has. After all these years, “Blue Velvet” is still a shocker, and deciding how one feels about it is still a challenge. It is a film to be considered and then reconsidered, visited and revisited, the kind of film that will never fade away. For serious cinephiles, then, “Blue Velvet” is a film to be cherished.

  497. avatar fyndraai says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 3:03 am

    I guess it always goes back to the way rugby is administered. With all the politics and intrigue the coaches probably have no time or resources to attend to these things.
    While NZ fly their coach to New York to learn some things, our coach flies to SA for a meaningless meating with the PC.

  498. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 3:05 am

    3:03

    That’s about the sum of it.

  499. avatar fyndraai says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 3:06 am

    I saw Blue Velvet and remeber nothing of the plot but some of the colors and images are still in my head.

  500. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 3:08 am

    That’s what it does to you.

    The review is correct, it was a shocking movie.

  501. avatar fyndraai says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 3:09 am

    The town Twin Falls in Idaho’s clain to fame is that it is the place where Evil Knievel jumped over the canyon with his bike.
    We can very close to moving to Twin Falls from SA in 1994, so when I heard about the movie I had to see it.
    Turned out to be about a siamese twin, named Falls, living in Idaho street in Los Angeles.
    A bit of a waste of time though.

  502. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 3:10 am

    Did you see “It’s a beautiful world” or “Stealing Beauty”?

  503. avatar fyndraai says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 3:11 am

    I will recommend, American Strays. Something like Two days in the Valley, where a number of different characters and different stories cross at some point in the movie.
    Jennifer Tilley is really good.

  504. avatar fyndraai says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 3:12 am

    Nope

  505. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 3:34 am

    Shyte, not “It’s a beautiful world”, sorry, it’s just “Beautiful Life”

  506. avatar Dancing 'Thabo' Bear says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 3:34 am

    Ras, still around?

  507. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 3:34 am

    Stealing Beauty was a gorgeous movie.

    I just saw this for the first time a little while ago and I thought it was one of the most beautiful films I have seen in a long time. It captures all the aspects of life, the anger, elation, pain, and just being. Liv Tyler was perfect for this movie because she can reach into her soul and bring out this perfect, virginal girl. As I watched the first time, I did not pick up on everything, but the second time around, it was all rising action, leading to the end that amazed me in the innocence and beauty portrayed in the love between two people. I found myself wishing that I was that beautiful girl on a trip to Italy, figuring out my past and controlling my sexuality. I view this film as a work of art because of its perfect portrayal of love and the way it can sneak up behind us when it is standing right in front of us.

  508. avatar Dancing 'Thabo' Bear says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 3:35 am

    wow, what timing.

  509. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 3:35 am

    Hoezit Thabo!

    About to log off.

  510. avatar Dancing 'Thabo' Bear says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 3:36 am

    Ras, read this news article. The delivery was from South Africa to Seattle, the delivery crew is very likely South African.

  511. avatar Dancing 'Thabo' Bear says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 3:36 am

    http://www.kgw.com/news-local/stories/kgw_121506_news_crew_sea.11c89a7c.html

  512. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 3:37 am

    Vita è bella, La – Beautiful Life
    Roberto Benigni

    The Best Movie I’ve seen for a long long time, 6 December 1999

    Author: kvonarx from Halifax, Canada

    I am surprised about the negative comments that some people made on this web-page. I can see how some people might not experience the same kind of uplift or joy that most of us lived through when seeing the movie. But that some viewers felt insulted and betrayed because the movie did not depict “reality” as it really was or is, is not fair.

    I must concur with my fellow proponents of the movie — it was a great and very satisfying movie. It provided me with something that everyone in one or another shape or form needs — Hope. The movie showed the cruelty of life and yet managed to shed some light and insight into the beauty of love and life in general.

    I urge anyone who has not seen La Vita è bella to go out there and watch it. If we all take with us just little bit of that hope and love that this movie is trying to convey; this world would be a much better place.

    Thank you for reading this and I hope you enjoyed or will enjoy the movie as much as I did.

  513. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 3:37 am

    Will do, DB.

  514. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 3:39 am

    Geez, that looks bad, DB.

  515. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 3:41 am

    28 30 10 09 S
    32 24 37 05 E

    DB

    When you get a chance, check this out! Amazing.

  516. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 3:41 am

    188m long!

  517. avatar Dancing 'Thabo' Bear says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 3:42 am

    It does sound bad Ras. The hope is they got in the raft, and will be washed ashore sometime after the boat. We can hope and pray. Apparently it is not a very good time of year to travel between San Francisco and Seattle. There have been two major storm systems hit the Northwest coast of the US in the last two weeks. Both with gusts well over 100 mph, hurricane force. Commercial traffic pretty much shuts down for a couple of months this time of year. So one wonders why they tried it.

  518. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 3:43 am

    You can see it from 33500 ft high

  519. avatar Dancing 'Thabo' Bear says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 3:43 am

    Will do Ras. I hope you are well my friend.

  520. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 3:43 am

    Doesn’t sound good, how many crew would be on it?

  521. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 3:44 am

    I am, thank you, and likewise!

  522. avatar Dancing 'Thabo' Bear says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 3:44 am

    Ras, I do have a Google Earth question for you if you don’t mind. What is the quickest and easiest way to get to a particular set of coordinates?

  523. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 3:45 am

    Seen this one, DB?

    http://www.cbc.ca/sports/story/2006/12/11/gainey-search.html

  524. avatar Dancing 'Thabo' Bear says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 3:45 am

    Doing well Ras. I would expect an international delivery crew of four or so. It looked like a 50 foot Cat or something close.

  525. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 3:47 am

    Sjoe,

    Do a ‘missing yacht crew’ search on Google news and you get loads of results.

    http://news.google.co.uk/nwshp?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&tab=wn&q=missing%20yacht%20crew

  526. avatar Dancing 'Thabo' Bear says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 3:47 am

    Ras, the boat I told you about that I was asked to drive at Key West Race Week, was just announced as Overall Boat of the Year by Sailing World magazine. It won it’s class (sportboat) and overall as well. So now there is even more pressure down there, as I believe we will have a couple press boats following us.

  527. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 3:48 am

    DB,

    Unfortunately, I only have the free Google Earth, I can’t find any quick way.

    If it helps, those co-ords are on the KZN north coast, not far from St Lucia.

  528. avatar Dancing 'Thabo' Bear says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 3:48 am

    Yes, I had heard about her. Very sad, it was some sort of square rigged training vessel she was on. Very sad anytime we see that. However, I think I mentioned that this year seems to be particularly bad. There have been 6 maydays already in the last month, just off the US east coast. Most of them by people that really did not have the experience or wherewithall to be there.

  529. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 3:49 am

    Geez, you can type like a demon, DB!

  530. avatar Dancing 'Thabo' Bear says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 3:49 am

    Thanks Ras, I too only have the free version, but it is still wonderful!

  531. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 3:51 am

    DB,

    That boat looked like a corker, I’m not surprised at the interest in her.

    Added pressure for you but, WOW, what an occassion!

  532. avatar Dancing 'Thabo' Bear says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 3:51 am

    Ras, I am a little wound up. Went sailing on that little beauty today. Got the spinnaker up, in only 5 knots of wind, we had her going over 7 knots downwind, it was amazing how little it takes to get that moving.

  533. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 3:51 am

    Just remember, you’re a SOUTH AFRICAN – pressure is your friend!

    Go out and knock ‘em over, big guy!

  534. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 3:54 am

    Okey dokey, I must hit the sack, apologies for leaving you on your lonesome, DB.

    Hope you have a fantabulous weekend.

    Boat sounds fantastic! Just ensure you have a garlic, onion, tomato, chilli, broccoli and red wine meal beforehand and you’ll rock their socks! :wink:

  535. avatar Dancing 'Thabo' Bear says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 3:55 am

    Good night Ras, that is one big tanker.

    Always good to get a chance to chat a little my friend.

  536. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 3:56 am

    Offski!

    Night!

  537. avatar cab says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 4:23 am

    i am very under the weather, but it looks to me like ppl have been talking to themselves…jissus, another beer, its all very surreal…

  538. avatar cab says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 4:27 am

    Cab, you tool what kak are u writing?

  539. avatar cab says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 4:29 am

    night cab

  540. avatar cab says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 4:30 am

    gaan kak in die mielies.

  541. avatar redj says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 8:09 am

    Cab

    When reading through the names one for one, one must wonder why we have not wiped all opposition off the paddock.

    Great names, great players. What then is the missing ingredient?

    Is it not poor coaching?

  542. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 9:10 am

    Ras – I honestly don’t believe you ever actually do hit the sack.

  543. avatar DavidS says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 10:46 am

    Cab did the East Rand thing

    Got dronk and then did something embarrashing that he’ll regretsh in the stark reality of sunlight and beer hangover…

  544. avatar cab says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 12:23 pm

    hehehe redj,
    straight to the point, yeah if most of the key names are fit, jake cant keep making excuses. still this year we seemed to be hit by extensive injuries to key players. we have ridden it, if poorly, but in the process inadvertantly built up a useful backup XV.

    BJ, Ackerman, Muller, Spies, Rossouw, Kabamba, pienaar, olivier, jaco p, and steyn all added this year and all good.

    DavidS,
    afraid so. eina.

  545. avatar Stan says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 2:06 pm

    ek sien ons nuttelose krieketkaptein is al weer uit vir n volle 5 lopies.
    Dis ten minste 5 meer as in sy vorige 3 innings….

  546. avatar Stan says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 2:07 pm

    48 vir 7.
    Dis om van te kots.

  547. avatar Boertjie says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 2:54 pm

    84 almal uit is erger.

  548. avatar StMichel says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 8:08 pm

    What a pointless contribution.

    Any analysis of SA’s chance in the RWC should not be based around an assessment of the players. Like most Saffa’s Cab is incapable of assessing SA playing talent. Remember this is the man that considers De Wet Barry to be an inside centre great.

    Instead an erudite analysis would address:

    1. How can SA tackle the mental block around winning games that matter?
    2. How can SA deliver tough wins over 4 consecutive weekends?
    3. Where will SA players find the character to bond and perform away from their provincial cliches in a foreign country that has such little regard for them.
    4. How will SA handle the Aus/NZ (who trest them as their in-bred distant cousins) and NH (who consider them a joke) inate bias against them?
    5. How can SA develop a game plan that pitches their strengths against the weaknesses of the big 4 + Ireland.

    Instead we have a half wit giving us his De Wet Barry view of playing talent. Pointless.

    If this site is going to take contributions from readers can we not introduce a quality vetting procedure?

  549. avatar redj says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 8:32 pm

    StM

    Not true.

    Your 1-5 are crucial points and true enough illustrate fundamental issues that need to be addressed if we are to win.

    But to say Cab’s piece is pointless is plain silly on your part.

    In fact everything he says regarding about how the individual players performed is spot on.

    Therefore rather than a him or StM scenario, his “player trust” needs to be confronted with your very accurate assessment!

    As I asked earlier we have the players, why are we not winning?

    You have provided me with interesting points to ponder, but irritated me with your “one-up-man-ship”.

  550. avatar StMichel says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 9:11 pm

    redj,

    SA categorically does not have the players. To think they do is an opinion held only by Saffas. 12 of the starting 15 positions are inadequatetly served.

    But debating it is a waste of time. Firstly because Saffas are too thick skinned to get it and because it does not matter what playing talent exists when you cannot get over the points I list.

    A pointless article that sets the debate a step further back.

  551. avatar cab says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 9:13 pm

    ahahaha…StM, oh what England would give for a De Wet Barry.

    lets face it with the talent in that squad, you’ve got to be very worried for the 3 matches we play you next year.

    as for vetting procedures, best you lads develop one for the next coach, cos the last clot turned a supposed team of world champions into everybody’s favourite bitch, even our B side looked superb against them.

  552. avatar cab says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 9:24 pm

    can we expect more of a game at home?

    i have written to the IRB asking that the forthcoming series against england be stripped of test status…what good would a further humiliating defeat do for the game as a whole if this is what so-called “world champions” produce?

    on a seperate point, i have also written to the broadcasters association demanding that the emotional wittering twit Will Greenwood be removed from further post-match commentary forthwith…good god he was trembling and balling so badly I thought Lynagh might have mentioned the ashes during the break. stiff upper lip for goodness sake.

  553. avatar Ollie says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 9:27 pm

    1. How can SA tackle the mental block around winning games that matter?
    You might like they did when JW first took over in order to win the 3N
    2. How can SA deliver tough wins over 4 consecutive weekends?
    The same way they did in 1995
    3. Where will SA players find the character to bond and perform away from their provincial cliches in a foreign country that has such little regard for them.
    I suppose they might try and follow the England example with the problems they are having with their clubs currently, provided England find a solution of course. Alternatively they will just go out and play rugby like they always do, thus ensuring a regular top 3 position.
    4. How will SA handle the Aus/NZ (who trest them as their in-bred distant cousins) and NH (who consider them a joke) inate bias against them?
    THey way they always do, show them they the role is actually vice versa and then beat them on the rugby field as they regularly do.
    5. How can SA develop a game plan that pitches their strengths against the weaknesses of the big 4 + Ireland.
    Guess you’ll have to wait and see how how well it will be done come the ’07 WC

    Now of you go and clean those toilets, I think you missed one in the player changing rooms. :lol:

    p.s. I see you are still trying to find problems and not looking for solutions yet Michey. Crikey, but you do have a low work rate. You on the dole by any chance?

  554. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 9:28 pm

    you guys STILL on this thread?

  555. avatar redj says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 9:30 pm

    StM

    I disagree and debate is never a waste of time.

    I do still respect the points you raised.

    As for thick skins how can I disagree. Given our history over 40 years this must be true. The current lot are continuing alone this route with BEE.

    But how thick-skinned must a nation be to enslave many, many countries in the name of empire building, to rape and pillage them and then run away when the heat was on.

    The true influence of the mighty English is suitably illustrated by the disdain with which a Zimbabwean despot can ridicule your Queen, Prime Minister and population and you don’t have the ability to do a damn thing about it.

    In fact 90% of the Commonwealth think you are a bunch of nerds. They veto just about any motion you propose and again you cannot do a thing about it.

    But I have saved the best for last. How thick skinned must a nation be to bow and curtsy before a normal human being, a so-called Queen and royal family that are truly disgraced by their own shenanigans?

    Alas your last post has taken the debate a step further back.

  556. avatar Ollie says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 9:30 pm

    Yeah Rob, just having some fun with Michey.

  557. avatar Boertjie says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 9:31 pm

    StM
    And speaking about the Arses, I mean Ashes:
    That’s about all that is left of your
    cricket team too.

    Boks won’t win the Web Ellis, but we should
    whip your team with ease.

  558. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 9:33 pm

    St Mich… missed you today…

  559. avatar cab says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 9:35 pm

    yeah robd,
    actually i’ve just watched a replay of the england game again, the boys were superb.

    Juan Smith not only taught the english a lesson about majestic backrow play, but has a fine career in public speeking ahead of him should he so desire…one could clearly see how the little pommie interviewer was utterly enraptured with Juan’s presence.

  560. avatar Boertjie says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 9:36 pm

    Ja, will miss him even more tomorrow
    when they lose by 400 runs.
    Hope his hide-out is stocked with
    enough warm beer.

  561. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 9:39 pm

    Anyone besides me wonder what the fuss is all about when it comes to Jimi Hendrix?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3jTMFdorJc

  562. avatar cab says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 9:46 pm

    hahaha … old juan looks like a helluva nice guy, but he can hardly speak a word of his english, i felt really sorry for the bloke when they gave him man of the match, but i reckon he could have eaten the interviewer if he got smart.

    john smit turns ro him and says “knaap” after his public speaking, the interviewer reckon smit’s commenting on the weight of the MOTM award….had a good chuckle tho juan’s doing his best to behave politiely…he is a beast. great player.

  563. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 9:48 pm

    ho hum

  564. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 9:48 pm

    booodledeeboooo

  565. avatar cab says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 9:49 pm

    robd,
    u in london today?

  566. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 9:49 pm

    doobeedooobeedooobeedoobeedoobeedo

  567. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 9:50 pm

    at the aeropuerto, cabbles.

  568. avatar Boertjie says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 9:51 pm

    “Druk van borge op die Suid-Afrikaanse Rugbyunie (Saru) het die Springbok-afrigter, Jake White, se bas gered.”

    Read Sasol, Vodacom.

    So I now only use BP and MTN.

  569. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 9:51 pm

    anyways… I’m outta here. Catch you boys later.

    BTW Cab… Vinnie sends a kiss

  570. avatar cab says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 9:51 pm

    sounds like you’ve been seated at the airport bar.

    u sink a few pints with vincenso?

  571. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 9:51 pm

    I matched the youngster pint for pint

  572. avatar cab says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 9:55 pm

    hehehe…nice.

  573. avatar cab says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 10:03 pm

    john smit’s a very good captain and he played hard.

  574. avatar cab says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 10:08 pm

    as englishman go, i like corry, but Smit is at another level when it comes to dynamism and leadership.

  575. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 10:17 pm

    john smit is the shit! I know him well. Good mate of mine, he is!

  576. avatar robdylan© says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 10:19 pm

    bladda bladda bladda bladda bladda bling

  577. avatar redj says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 10:20 pm

    Is it true that the large soccer clubs are being sold to foreigners, Harrod’s belongs to an Egyptian and the crown jewels belong to all the countries the English stole them from?

    What an empire?

  578. avatar cab says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 10:28 pm

    really robd…yes i think he’s a very good captain and perhaps White has got it right again here. Boertjie, redj, David?

  579. avatar redj says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 10:29 pm

    Sorry for the insults guys.

    But StM managed to penetrate my “thick SAFFA skin”.

    Nite all.

  580. avatar cab says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 10:33 pm

    cheers redj,
    one thing about the english, never ever take a word they say to ear or heart…world champion bullshitters.

  581. avatar StMichel says:
    December 17th, 2006 at 12:51 am

    I guess you are not getting it.

    Cab came up with an inane article saluting a whole load of players that lets face facts:

    1. Perform like idiots in the S14 each year
    2. Got stuffed by almost 50 points by the Aussies
    3. Got hammered by the Irish
    4. Managed to blow a significant lead and lose to a hapless and directionless England team that cant even beat Scotland.

    And some idiot having evaluated the playing strength thinks they are contenders for the only thing that matters.

    Its thinking that would disgrace a schoolboy.

    It is quote frankly the kind of drivel that Keo would use as the feature article on his magazine.

    Lets take RW to a better place. Better articles showing better thought with more insightful commentary.

    Save us from this inane rubbish please Cab.

  582. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 17th, 2006 at 12:56 am

    Are you planning on Yuletide festivities at home, StM, or off to Klosters?

  583. avatar StMichel says:
    December 17th, 2006 at 12:57 am

    I might cut and our keep this article. For an example of how stupid some South African rugby fans are you couldn’t make it up.

    Was it done tongue in cheek?

  584. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 17th, 2006 at 12:57 am

    It’s been nearly a year since you put pen to paper, StM.

    You might consider submitting something on what you perceive England’s fortune’s to be for 2007? Six Nations & RWC?

  585. avatar StMichel says:
    December 17th, 2006 at 12:59 am

    Ras,

    Staying by my own hearth. Spent too much time overseas this year; its good to be home.

    As a serious skier I dont do Klosters.

  586. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 17th, 2006 at 12:59 am

    Now, now, StM, back away from the bottle of Port.

    I think that last sliver of blue cheese has aggravated your spleen.

  587. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 17th, 2006 at 1:00 am

    StM, I thought you’d go if only to rub shoulders with Libby’s first born.

  588. avatar StMichel says:
    December 17th, 2006 at 1:01 am

    “Albert had a good World XV game” Does any one vet this rubbish? its liek saying Albert had a good warm up.

    Not touched a drop tonight. Or today. I am competing tomorrow.

  589. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 17th, 2006 at 1:02 am

    Judging by the snow reports, you won’t be the only dedicated skier staying at home this year.

  590. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 17th, 2006 at 1:02 am

    At the highest level?

  591. avatar StMichel says:
    December 17th, 2006 at 1:03 am

    Charles is a magnificent man as history will show in time. Time for a spot of kippage. Plan to get up to watch the cricket. A sort of farewell if you wish.

    England have been hammered. Although why has Rudi chosen to make it worse with some ludicrous umpiring. So its not just rugby your boys cant ref.

  592. avatar StMichel says:
    December 17th, 2006 at 1:04 am

    Ras,

    A couple of steps below I’m afraid. The willl to win burns just as brightly I might add!

  593. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 17th, 2006 at 1:05 am

    It’s neither here nor there in the bigger scheme of things but Albert DID have a good game against the World XV.

    Late developer?

    I wouldn’t be banking a RWC on him though.

    So, factually, Cab was correct.

  594. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 17th, 2006 at 1:07 am

    The will to win burns brightly, I’d have expected nothing less, StM.

    Well, sleep well and compete with honour at whatever you’re doing on the morrow.

  595. avatar StMichel says:
    December 17th, 2006 at 1:07 am

    Its a fact that Albert also craps out of his backside. But it is also irrelevant to SA winning RWC.

  596. avatar Boertjie says:
    December 17th, 2006 at 1:08 am

    Much as I hate it, I have to agree with
    St.M. when he talks about “drivel” and asks if anyone “vets this rubbish.”

    Heheheh. I suppose it’s called Freedom of Speach.

  597. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 17th, 2006 at 1:08 am

    Rudi is only getting you back for foisting Shepherd and Seagull on us for all these years.

  598. avatar StMichel says:
    December 17th, 2006 at 1:09 am

    Good night. Win or lose I willl offer an honest handshake in the knowledge that although its “nice to be great”, “its great to be nice”.

  599. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 17th, 2006 at 1:10 am

    Night, StM.

  600. avatar Boertjie says:
    December 17th, 2006 at 1:11 am

    Ras 1:05

    Albert may even be better against Portugal.
    It’s the level of the competition that must
    be used as a yardstick – but you know that.

    Some people apparently don’t.

  601. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 17th, 2006 at 1:18 am

    Absolutely, Boertjie.

    It only counts against the big boys who are used to playing regularly together and practising with their hooker and scrummy etc.

    However, Simon Shaw and Alister Campbell are no monkeys.

    I agree with you & StM though – it doesn’t count.

  602. avatar Duiwel says:
    December 17th, 2006 at 1:22 am

    Whatever are you two on about?

  603. avatar Boertjie says:
    December 17th, 2006 at 1:25 am

    Haai Duiwel.
    Yardsticks for measuring a performance,
    in short.

  604. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 17th, 2006 at 1:26 am

    Vissies, Duiwel, vissies!

  605. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 17th, 2006 at 1:26 am

    Duiwel, your vissies are on the French centre thread.

  606. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 17th, 2006 at 1:28 am

    PA,

    *143 000 ?????

    You don’t even need to check the DB, boet, just sommer skryf Rasputin in!

  607. avatar Boertjie says:
    December 17th, 2006 at 1:34 am

    PA is even more slapgat than Donner.

    Mind you, PA is pregnant. Shouldn’t be too
    hard on him.

  608. avatar Boertjie says:
    December 17th, 2006 at 1:36 am

    Duiwel is doing his “anderdag” again.
    Just popped in to see his vissie.
    Blerrie windgat.

  609. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 17th, 2006 at 1:39 am

    Boertjie,

    Treat Mrs B to a pizza last night?

  610. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 17th, 2006 at 1:40 am

    How is Ms B, still in Belgium?

  611. avatar Boertjie says:
    December 17th, 2006 at 1:42 am

    Nope, did the old braai tonight.

    Haven’t heard from Miss B in two weeks.
    Trust all is well. Should be back Wednesday.

  612. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 17th, 2006 at 1:45 am

    She’s obviously having a blast. Forgotten to phone home, no doubt she’ll have plenty to tell you when she gets back.

  613. avatar Boertjie says:
    December 17th, 2006 at 1:46 am

    Talking about braai – Xmas prices are killing.
    Chops up from R45/kg to R65/kg.

    Poor old Tito Mboweni want’s people to spend less, yet the banks are forever pestering you with loan suggestions, credit cards, “easy” money.

    Food inflation worst in six years.

    Ons gaan almal ons gatte sien.

  614. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 17th, 2006 at 1:46 am

    I take it the Boertjies won’t be going away over the Xmas/New Year break?

  615. avatar Boertjie says:
    December 17th, 2006 at 1:51 am

    Hehehe.
    Boertjie working, six days a bloody week in January.
    As dit pap reën, moet mens skep – al is dit suur pap.
    Lots of holiday gaps to fill. After that, wh knows?

    Mrs. B leaving Xmas morning (only available ticket) for a visit to her twin in PMBurg.
    There will also be a wedding.

    So it’s suur pap and bredie for me :wink:

  616. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 17th, 2006 at 1:51 am

    Poor old Tito Mboweni want’s people to spend less, yet the banks are forever pestering you with loan suggestions, credit cards, “easy? money.
    ———————-

    Not just there, Boertjie, if anything it’s far worse here.

    I am convinced the UK is going to dive into a deep depression shortly.

    Property prices are far too high, personal spending is far too high, the government are employing far too many people, unemployment is rising, immigration is totally out of control, stealth taxes are constantly rising or new ones being imposed, council taxes are out of control, new schemes to raise money are constantly being flouted.

    I fear that the UK is in Shyte Street and it’s the taxpayer that will have to pay for Labour’s splurge.

    Hundreds of thousands of pensioners are leaving the UK, as are professional and skilled people.

    It all has to come to a head at some stage.

  617. avatar Boertjie says:
    December 17th, 2006 at 1:54 am

    Hundreds of thousands of pensioners are leaving the UK.
    ——————
    Why are the pensioners leaving?
    They do keep their pensions, yes?
    Cheaper living elsewhere?

  618. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 17th, 2006 at 1:54 am

    :lol: Boertjie

    Does Mrs B do what Mrs P’s mother does for Mrs P’s father when she leaves for a while?

    She cooks him meals and freezes them!

  619. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 17th, 2006 at 1:57 am

    Absolutely,

    Their pensions remain valid but they head to sunnier and cheaper climes, like Spain, Portugal, Greece, Italy, Australia.

    In Europe, they can have reciprocity health benefits and access to far better health scemes than the UK.

    Food is cheaper, gas is cheaper, everything’s cheaper.

    And they have warm sun on their bones.

  620. avatar Boertjie says:
    December 17th, 2006 at 1:58 am

    Not in your life.
    Never fancied cooking, Mrs B has.

    Ag, meals are very available from the deli’s – cheaper than I can cook for one or even two people. Just picked up a bit of gyppo guts from the last curry I had.
    Maybe one should avoid curry.

  621. avatar Boertjie says:
    December 17th, 2006 at 2:00 am

    Ah, warm sun.
    As it is I’m sitting bare chested in front
    of my open window.
    I read GB had hottest summer in 347 years.

  622. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 17th, 2006 at 2:04 am

    At almost any measurable level, the UK occupies the basement in European measurement levels.

    StM might choose to argue otherwise but it’s bollocks.

    Murder
    Gun crimes
    Teenage pregnancy
    Single parent families
    Health waiting lists
    Binge drinking
    Obesity
    Crime
    Recidivism
    Lack of solving crime

    The UK’s is pretty much at the bottom, or near, in all those categories.

    Never mind:

    Illegal immigrants
    Highest utility rates
    Benefit fraud
    Jail occupancy
    Offending whilst on bail

    Then throw in Labour’s massive hidden, ‘stealth’ taxes.

    This is not the country it was.

    The world is changing but the UK is finding it particularly difficult to deal with.

  623. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 17th, 2006 at 2:07 am

    I read GB had hottest summer in 347 years.

    Comment by Boertjie — December 17, 2006 @ 2:00 am |Edit This

    :lol:

    Yes, I believe it might be the hottest ever recorded.

    It’s messing up nature in a massive way.

    However, as a born, bred and raised Saffa, believe me, it wasn’t ‘hot’.

  624. avatar Boertjie says:
    December 17th, 2006 at 2:08 am

    You are confirming my perception of a
    civilisation in dire straits.
    What is “stealth tax”?

    Can buy a hot meal for 2 @ approx R35.
    Beautiful calamari @ R40.
    Not a big eater myself.

    Hehehe. I see you also had a one-on-one
    with yourself last night :wink:

  625. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 17th, 2006 at 2:11 am

    I’d call it mild.

    When Mrs R & I arrived here we moved to Edinburgh about a year or two after and stayed there for 3 months during what was, officially, the coldest winter in Scotland, perhaps ever!

    The irony was, Billy Connolly was doing a programme about living in a tent/igloo in the North Pole/Greenland and the weather was warmer where he was than it was in Glasgow, where he comes from!

    It got to something like -18c

  626. avatar Boertjie says:
    December 17th, 2006 at 2:12 am

    Just tonight read a piece re UK govt
    paying out 5 000 pounds each to some
    98 jailbirds.
    They got “cold turkey” when their heroine
    was not made available; claim they were not
    consulted when jailed.
    Govt rather settled than taking matters further.

    Now for a conservative old goat like me this is flabbergasting :shock:

  627. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 17th, 2006 at 2:18 am

    Hehehe. I see you also had a one-on-one
    with yourself last night

    Comment by Boertjie — December 17, 2006 @ 2:08 am |Edit This

    It looked like fun, thought I’d join in!!!!

    Stealth taxes are the hidden, secretive taxes that are undeclared.

    For example, Gordon Brown is proud of telling everyone that income tax hasn’t risen under Labour.

    BOLLOCKS!!!!!

    It’s gone up by absolute BILLIONS, not a few, TENS of billions. Through sneaky taxes that are not immediately apparent.

    The UK’s fuel price is something like 2 or 3 times what the US pay but it’s almost all tax and the money is not being spent on improving public transport – which is getting worse and worse.

    Thing is, not a single thing they’ve apparently spent money on is showing much of an improvement. Education is worse, health is worse, policing is worse. Despite tens of billions of pounds being spent on it.

  628. avatar Boertjie says:
    December 17th, 2006 at 2:23 am

    Same happens here – road taxes goes somewhere else.
    Manuel get billions more than he budgets for every year – I’m talking R60 billion – yet there is an overwhelming shortage of menial labour, cleaning streets, parks, keeping toilets serviced, police etc. etc.

    I have an idea the UK has created a state of dependancy with the dole etc.

    OK, me off for a shower and then bed.

    Nice chatting. Ciao.

  629. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 17th, 2006 at 2:23 am

    Boertjie

    2:12 is NOTHING!

    A drop in the water.

    They had a Somali guy, murdered someone, got jailed, lax justice system meant he was out in a short time, something like 5 or 6 years, he was meant to be deported, he appealed that decision, was held in custody pending outcome of appeal, appeal took something like 2 or 3 years, he sued the government for the time he was held in custody, won £250K.

    A murderer.

    It’s a lunatic asylum. I wouldn’t reccomend anyone moving to the UK, not long term anyway. Rather go to the US, Aus, NZ or Canada.

  630. avatar Boertjie says:
    December 17th, 2006 at 2:29 am

    So, you gonna stick it out for how long still?

    Good night!

  631. avatar Rasputin says:
    December 17th, 2006 at 2:34 am

    Thinking about Aus!

  632. avatar cab says:
    December 17th, 2006 at 10:04 am

    StM,

    we both know who’s up in the prediction stakes. i will say nothing more, its distasteful to gloat.

    when SA lift the trophy where will you be?

    care to put a wager on this one? let us settle this once and for all.

    if the boks make the final, you will hail me as ‘His Royal Majesty Cab’ when addressing me, if not i do the same to you.

    Of course, it will be tremendously embaressing having to defer to a saffa in this way, but what are the chances? we both know how poor SA have been.

  633. avatar StMichel says:
    December 17th, 2006 at 10:36 am

    Excellent idea Cab. But please dont refer to me as Cab.

    “His Royal Majesty in all his resplendent glory, St Michel”. No abbreviations always in full.

    A deal.

  634. avatar cab says:
    December 17th, 2006 at 10:41 am

    deal.

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