Five matches, three abroad, no losses

March 3, 2007
Posted by

Can it get any better than this? Five South African teams playing and not a single loss registered. Wonderful stuff. Plenty of monkey’s off the back too.

The Cheetahs started the weekend off by grinding out a draw against a Chiefs team that will still surprise in this competition.

The Stormers followed that up by shocking all and sundry, putting the high flying Hurricanes to the sword and picking up a four try bonus point to boot. The very presence of Nick Mallett nearing must have focussed the senses somewhat.

The Bulls did what they do best by bullying the Brumbies in Canberra, scoring a forwards try that looked like it was men against boys.

We all knew it just couldn’t last, surely the Lions couldn’t do a two from two on their overseas tour? Yet, they came roaring back after a less than scintillating first half, scoring only their 4th ever win in Australia.

And thus our hopes rested on the Sharks at home against the peerless Crusaders franchise. We knew it would be a nail biter but, boy, did it exceed those expectations!

Unbelievably the Saders played on after the hooter, ball was turned over 10m out from the Sharks line and before you knew where you were, Adi Jacobs was racing off before releasing to Odwa Ndungane to sneak over at the flag by mere millimetres!

No, it couldn’t be, surely not. Not a dream finish to the weekend’s rugby offering.

How the nerves must have pulled Ruan Pienaar’s stomach to shreds as he teed the ball up on the touchline, with 30 000 odd Sharks fans baying for blood. A pause, he runs in, the leg arcs, the ball’s in flight, a collective silence of dread and IT’S OVER!

Not a perfect storm but certainly a perfect Saturday for SA rugby!

Well done and hearty congratulations to all our brave boys, at home and abroad.

You’ve put a huge smile on our faces.

Thank you!

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178 Comments

  1. avatar Rasputin says:
    March 3rd, 2007 at 7:25 pm

    Made my weekend!

    Thanks to all the SA players for a hugely committed effort.

  2. avatar il postino says:
    March 3rd, 2007 at 7:29 pm

    Hear, hear Ras

    We’ll have some horrid weekends again in this tournament, but we now know our guys have the mental fortitude to bounce back from them.

    Don’t rule out a final in SA!

  3. avatar Quinnyshark says:
    March 3rd, 2007 at 7:43 pm

    Well, I’m certainly going to have a few on the boys tonight!

    Just wish the Cheetahs had managed to secure the win last night…think their injury toll & the uncontested scrums played firmly into the Chiefs hands…

    Absolutely great seeing the Aussie teams (bar the Force) in the bottom half of the log, though the Kiwi teams are still looking dangerous!

  4. avatar SARugbyFan_FormerlyKnownAsStormsaam says:
    March 3rd, 2007 at 7:44 pm

    Good bloody grief.

  5. avatar il postino says:
    March 3rd, 2007 at 7:47 pm

    Stormy!

    Long time, mate.

    I’m off to celebrate!

  6. avatar SARugbyFan_FormerlyKnownAsStormsaam says:
    March 3rd, 2007 at 7:54 pm

    Enjoy Posty.

    Bet no one’s celebrating more than the SA players though.

    Well done.

  7. avatar Kandas says:
    March 3rd, 2007 at 8:00 pm

    Well done boys!!

  8. avatar Kandas says:
    March 3rd, 2007 at 8:02 pm

    Is Silver Fern closed down?

  9. avatar The Brand© says:
    March 3rd, 2007 at 8:11 pm

    What an exceptional weekend of rugby for us.

    It was painful at times, but great at the end.

    Well done manne!!!

  10. avatar Kandas says:
    March 3rd, 2007 at 8:13 pm

    By the way, Ras, I really do enjoy your style of writing!

    You don’t have an eBook hidden somewhere?

  11. avatar Stormie says:
    March 3rd, 2007 at 8:25 pm

    Congrats to all the SA teams – especially the Stormers for at least picking up their heads and doing the job they are paid to do. Win their game.

  12. avatar KSA Shark © says:
    March 3rd, 2007 at 8:27 pm

    Oh how good it feels to be a Saffa tonight.

    Well done all 110 Players in the 5 teams for the weekend.

  13. avatar robdylan© says:
    March 3rd, 2007 at 8:32 pm

    Go SA go!

  14. avatar KSA Shark © says:
    March 3rd, 2007 at 8:36 pm

    Rob Mate

    you really have to get people to plan their weddings better, :roll:

  15. avatar newshields says:
    March 3rd, 2007 at 8:41 pm

    Bloody Saffa teams! I had only the Cheetahs to win this weekend on SB! Me fooked!

    Well done boys. Next weekend will be full of anticipation with more TV viewers and more bums on seats locally. I hope thousands on Durbanites make the trip to Bling because OO’s cousins simply cannot fill a stadium it would seem.

  16. avatar The Brand© says:
    March 3rd, 2007 at 8:54 pm

    Guys how awesome was the Cheetahs’s pick-and-go?

    I have never in rugby seen a more effective and efficient way of doing that around the fringes.

    Now having worked out exactly what they should do and how they should do it – why o why must the captain do it everytime on his own.

    That struck me as soooo strange everytime.

    The get two or three guys group – drop their hips to about 1 1/2 feet down, their backs at a 45 degree angle, and then grind forwards and upwards – beautiful!!! Near perfect in anybodys books.

    Then Juan gets the ball, all on his own, and tries to go straight up and over the top of the opposition – just did not make sense.

    He is bloody strong, so mostly get the ball down and back towards his team – but surely someone from the States noticed it is soooo much less effective, than should he have someone riding shot-gun for him as well???

  17. avatar newshields says:
    March 3rd, 2007 at 9:01 pm

    Good point Brand. Look Juan is an yster but he is also a very selfish player which, as a cheetah fan, annoys me no end.

    Cheetah backline needs serious changes or this season will deteriorate quickly.

    AND how is it that every single NZ team has a star 10 and in SA we dont have 2 proper ones?

  18. avatar The Brand© says:
    March 3rd, 2007 at 9:10 pm

    Shields

    Are you also a Meyer Bosman fan at 12?

  19. avatar newshields says:
    March 3rd, 2007 at 9:21 pm

    No Brand I want him to play 10. He is simply not aggro enough in the tackle to be a good 12.

    Willem is simply not good enough for Super rugby. I have not seen him play a good super match EVER no mateer who he plays for.

    Id also give Cook a go at 13 with Joubert on the wing.

  20. avatar The Brand© says:
    March 3rd, 2007 at 9:28 pm

    I have listened to the guys going bossies about Bosman at 12 – but he is really not that.

    He was the weaklink in the Cheetahs backline.

    Joubert is visibly unsure about his inside going on the defence.

    Joubert is forever ‘covering’ for the inside break – and therefore ‘holding back.

    Have to remember Joubert was maybe spoiled by DeWet on the inside.

    I was really dissapointed with Bosman at 12. He had zero ‘certainty’ about him.
    Even when he was looking on, at Willem taking a kick at goal – he looked ‘lost’, like a kid who did not get presents at a party.

  21. avatar newshields says:
    March 3rd, 2007 at 9:33 pm

    Hehehe Brand. He did not deserve a gift!

    True about Joubert RE De Wet. I just do not like all thes enew centres who are great attackers but bad defenders. Tackling as we all know is a mindset and very few 12′s today seem to want the role. In the Cheetah side only Burger and Cooke seem to like defending and they are the smallest two guys.

    Meyer is a good player but not at 12. I think Rassie should just play him game in and game out at 10 and ket him grow into the role for once.

  22. avatar Duiwel says:
    March 3rd, 2007 at 9:36 pm

    Good result.
    Its a start.
    Like climbing a mountain
    the next step will be harder.
    But we can draw courage
    from the last.
    Keep climbing .

  23. avatar redj says:
    March 3rd, 2007 at 9:57 pm

    Players did their bit.

    Hope the spectators likewise.

    Be nice to hear if OO knows of any more “incidents” and also other stadiums around the country.

  24. avatar Duiwel says:
    March 3rd, 2007 at 10:00 pm

    hehehe.
    here we go.

  25. avatar redj says:
    March 3rd, 2007 at 10:02 pm

    :smile: @ Duiwel

  26. avatar The Brand© says:
    March 3rd, 2007 at 10:02 pm

    Yea right – “insidents”.

    I am still old school regarding “insidents”.

    I like my video ‘evidence’ or sufficient eye-witnesses to create a prima facie case.

    Apart from that I believe the following: “Words are unverified rumours.”

  27. avatar redj says:
    March 3rd, 2007 at 10:05 pm

    So do I Brand. so do I…..

  28. avatar The Brand© says:
    March 3rd, 2007 at 10:06 pm

    Goeie nag elk.

    En vannag is dit inderdaad ‘n goeie nag.

  29. avatar redj says:
    March 3rd, 2007 at 10:08 pm

    Ook nag.

  30. avatar newshields says:
    March 3rd, 2007 at 10:11 pm

    Hi redj.

    Thought about your opinion on the matter and I respect the fact that you challenge mr Goliath in defence of white people in general.

    What I have a problem with is your insistence that mr goliath did not perceive the events correctly. This is classical collonialist thinking whereby the coloniser thinks it his duty to think and feel on behalf of the uncivilised brutes. No matter if Mr goliath is talking shite or not, its not your place to tell him what he did or did not perceive at this match.

    Like I explained to you that night, I have also witnessed many incidents of abuse. In fact the worse I have seen was the treatement a couple of Bulls fans gave a car guard before a game at Loftus, where you say you go frequently.

    I dont think the situation is out of control though. Its isolated incidents yes, but we simply do not need a single such incident to happen. I attend many a soccer game and I have never seen any form of abuse from spectators t ice-cream vendors or any persons the majority perceives to be an ‘other’. I also have not wintnessed any white people abusing black spectators (apart from the supersport cameraman) but you do see it in the toilets and toward vendors and ticket sellers etc. The car guards outside stadiums often have to put up with patronising abuse disguised as ‘friendly fun’ and this is simply not on.

    At the test match in Rustenburg I was witness to some very racist action from white fans toward the surrounding black community. These things cannot be excused and I wish more people would write about it now that the press took notice of Mr Goliaths letter. We need more people to speak out.

    If you consider my points then perhaps it makes sense why Mr Goliaths action to write to the press is appreciated by all those who wish for unsavoury events to be removed entirely from our sports stadiums. I am one as I am sure you are.

  31. avatar newshields says:
    March 3rd, 2007 at 10:15 pm

    Brand I respect that. I just do not understand why you would be so defensive over the whole situation. There is no need to protect your race or fellow sportsfans etc? Goliath did not attack either of you so why the need to get defensive?

    I have been to games where my own friends become a bit too drunk and then get very aggressive toward black people walking by etc.

    Am I the only person with racist friends or do these things happen to most people?

  32. avatar newshields says:
    March 3rd, 2007 at 10:19 pm

    Ras etc. I am sorry to again be talking politics but as you will see I did not bring up the topic and I was very offended by redj’s stance the other day over this issue for reasosn I had to explain.

    Back to happy thoughts.

  33. avatar Oranje Orakel says:
    March 3rd, 2007 at 10:34 pm

    Well done boys what a Super Saturday!

    4 from four 3 down under !

    great stuff

    Sorry the Cheetahs only got the half

    Agree that our season can go hugely pearshaped from here unless the backline pitch up for some SuperRugby!

    Shields = happy thoughts!

    hehehe

    Anyway- I havnt heard yet from hadley Goliath

    I do know that he and 35 friend would have gone to Vodacom park on friday night

  34. avatar JT says:
    March 3rd, 2007 at 10:42 pm

    Team of the week should be interesting… Only question is 12 and wing! I nominate 2, Julies and Da Law!?

  35. avatar Boertjie says:
    March 3rd, 2007 at 10:45 pm

    OK – before we get too carried away
    consider this:

    22 All Blacks are withdrawn from the
    S14 and will return later.

    All our teams suffered in the scrums –
    even against teams from Oz, who seems
    to have beefed up in this department.

    Our players are still weak in the air
    and still suffer to retain posession and
    to unload in tackles.

    Our general skills levels and attacking
    nous is still considerably below par.

    Let’s stop there.

  36. avatar Oranje Orakel says:
    March 3rd, 2007 at 10:54 pm

    hehehe boertjie

    howZit!

    Congrtas on your team!

  37. avatar newshields says:
    March 3rd, 2007 at 11:11 pm

    True boertjie. Yes we won but I felt uncomfortable with most games. At least we stay in there till then end and this had been rewarded with the Lions and Sharks wins. In day gone by we would have thrown towel in around 60 minutes.

    But I also feel we are not up to standard yet. Stormers game illustrates this best. The Canes were practically asleep throughout the games and made mistakes you dont see at schools level. The stormers were as bad as they were in previous weeks but htye tons of luck. Two intecept tries not to mention the watson kick that defied gravity and bouced infield and into the locks (who for fuck sakes should not be on the wing!) hands.

    The lions missed some chances and is still playing on guts alone. The mistakes by Human and Rose were again schoolboy stuff.

    The Bulls did what they always do and every now and then it works. Clever against the Brumbues anyway and its great that they stopped the Brumbies from playing otherwise it would have been the usual score. But again the Bulls offer little else and on the day when the opponents are up for a brawl the Bulls stand no chance. I mean consider hoe the Crusaders pack drilled the Cheetahs and the Sharks. This does not bode well for the Bulls.

    I am usually the naive optimist but I think this weekend was a freakshow. Seeing the stormers toss around without structure once more but actually scoring tries from nowhere made me realise this weekend might be a bit strange.

  38. avatar redj says:
    March 3rd, 2007 at 11:21 pm

    Shields

    You presume too much and are easily offended Sir.

    I was quite clear that any form of racism is wrong, also reverse racism.

    I was also quite clear that incidents do take place but they are isolated and few and far between.

    I was also quite clear that generalisations about anyone’s conduct are misleading and wrong. I hold the belief that Hadley’s first letter was very general, something he changed later on.

    I was also quite clear that if racism was so rife in rugby stadiums it would have been well published and common knowledge.

    Please revisit my comments on that string at your own leisure and tell me where I have contradicted myself?

    Of course there will be incidents, did I deny that? If so please copy and paste my comments for all to see.

    I am at a loss as to what constitutes a classical colonialist and why the image of a brute would enter your frame of reference?

    Luckily you said it not I!

    I cannot comment on soccer games, car guards, Rustenburg and the like as I know nothing about it. Visiting rugby stadiums is something I have done.

    As far as I am concerned we are all created equal, are all South Africans and have mutual interests based on our circumstances, not the colour of our skin.

    Being black or white does not make you a better rugby player, although to be honest being a Pacific Islander does seem to be a factor. They are awesome.

    I also believe that black and white doctors have more in common with each other than say black and white farmers. To insinuate a black doctor and a black farmer would automatically have more in common than a black farmer and a white farmer is nonsensical.

    What the black doctor and the black farmer would have in common is an acute knowledge of the injustices they endured for many years (if they were old enough at the time). They will share that until they die.

    Racism is not politics, it is a mental condition and I do believe that it needs to be discussed out in the open.

    If it affects the sport we love then it must be discussed here. We must also not be afraid to confront it and I for one would again ask if anyone knows about such incidents this weekend let us know.

    After a few weeks we will get the general picture, I’m sure.

    Lastly my comments are certainly not to defend anyone in particular, but rather to promote discourse, to test accusations and to draw my sword for the vast majority of rugby supporters who could so easily could be tarred with the same brush as a few misguided individuals.

  39. avatar Boertjie says:
    March 3rd, 2007 at 11:23 pm

    Freak show.
    Yes, I think that sums it up.

    Somehow the Lions are starting to
    look like our best balanced side
    despite sticking to Earl Rose.

  40. avatar DavidS says:
    March 3rd, 2007 at 11:37 pm

    Boertjie

    The Highlanders are playing without two All Blacks and that’s it. Surely you cannot credit us above them just because of two missing All Blacks?

    The Chiefs are missing like four. Four men do not make a team.

    The Huricanes are missing quite a few, like Collins and Soi’alo, but Ma’a Nonu and Conrad Smith are capped All Blacks. Conrad Smith was their man of the tour on the EOYT last year, and be honest, De Wet Barry ripped him to shreds.

    The Blues STILL have MacAllister and Nacewa is a capped international for Fiji, while Doug Howlett is a great player.

    The Crusaders IMO are the only ones who really have a gripe.

    Everyone’s getting shoved around in the new scrums. I don;t the refs have a clue how to blow them.

    None of the teams can actually claim to have dominated anyone in the scrums yet. None of them. Sure sometimes they’ve scrummed opposition props to pieces but then in the next they get scrummed to pieces. It’s like you never know what’s coming. I will agree that the Sharks got manhandled today, but that’s beacuse Beast Matatiwira shouldn’t have been playing. He’s not in this class … yet.

    But the pushing and shoving swinging about can be ascribed to one thing and a knock on.

    1. The refs have no idea how the new rules work yet.

    2. The confusion of the refs do the same to the props, and this akes them hesitant.

    The Crusaders are hardest hit

  41. avatar newshields says:
    March 3rd, 2007 at 11:46 pm

    Thanks for the reply redj. I understand you better now. You did come across that night as refuting Goliaths perception of events and i thought it was totally wrong for any person to say what someone else experienced is fictional, hence my colonialist comment.

    I do however think that this issue is not discussed enough due to the fact that very few black people attend rugby games. The people that take the abuse (vendors, car guards etc) will not write to a newspaper and sadly I think many white people dont report this as it does not affect them directly.

    Perhaps a good strategy would be to interview staff at rugby grounds about their experiences on match days.

    Boertjie not so sure about the Lions. I just cannot see their structure at the moment. They really just go out there and play which is a good thing but it wont take them all the way.
    Hope I am wrong. Will be great for Ellispark if the Lions can come home with a sniff at the semis.

    Oh by the way its the lunar eclipse tonight. Look out the window, it has started already.

  42. avatar newshields says:
    March 3rd, 2007 at 11:52 pm

    Jis DavidS I thought te Sharks handled the Crusaders better than the Cheetahs did? Beast had an OK game around the park. Whats his history, how many years must he still play here to be picked for Boks?

    With him and Mujati we might soon see the back of Eddie and Sephaka! Funny how we now see black props and hookers coming out but still no locks!

  43. avatar Boertjie says:
    March 3rd, 2007 at 11:57 pm

    Dawie
    In the scrums I saw this weekend the
    Saffas were screwed: Sharks, Lions,
    Bulls, Cheetahs. Stormers maybe less so.

    I don’t buy into the refs getting the
    fault, not more than before. The laws
    of the scrum has not changed, only the
    engagement phase.

    So you reckon the five Saffa teams would
    have been just as good without 22 Boks
    collectively?

    Well, in our case I suppose it depends on who the 22 are.

  44. avatar Boertjie says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 12:01 am

    Funny how we now see black props and hookers coming out but still no locks!
    ————-
    Not strange at all. How many blacks do
    you know that are 120 kg and 2,05 metres
    - and are they playing rugby?
    You will probably deny it, but there is
    a genetic factor in rugby.

  45. avatar newshields says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 12:16 am

    Nah I dont deny it boertjie. There are 120kg 2,05 specimens walkign around but they do not play rugby.

    To turn the topic – would have been amazing to see the results had Holland invested more in growing rugby. They have the genes. Similarly it would be just as interesting had afrikaners taken to playing soccer in numbers. We have the genes….

  46. avatar newshields says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 12:30 am

    Good night boer, redj and others. Fecking clouds obscure the eclipse!

  47. avatar Rasputin says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 1:44 am

    OK – before we get too carried away
    consider this:

    22 All Blacks are withdrawn from the
    S14 and will return later.

    All our teams suffered in the scrums -
    even against teams from Oz, who seems
    to have beefed up in this department.

    Our players are still weak in the air
    and still suffer to retain posession and
    to unload in tackles.

    Our general skills levels and attacking
    nous is still considerably below par.

    Let’s stop there.

    Comment by Boertjie — March 3, 2007 @ 10:45 pm

    —————————-

    Boertjie,

    Very good and timely points.

    I trust that most people, like me, are factoring in these points when judging how much joy they must take from the weekend.

    My policy is very simple – boys have pleased me, I feel great, enough said.

    No need to analyse, they’ve done the job.

    Next week is next week and we’ll judge them on next week.

    This week is a magnificent celebration of an extremely rare beast, 5 SA teams showing guts.

    I’ll take that, thank you, and chew on it for days!

    I’m quick to kak these okes out, I must be quick to congratulate and celebrate their victories too.

  48. avatar JT says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 2:25 am

    I’m quick to kak these okes out, I must be quick to congratulate and celebrate their victories too.

    Comment by Rasputin — March 4, 2007 @ 1:44 am

    Yip, the boys showed some passion and that is all I ask for. We will not always win because a lot of times the oppo is just better (last week Saders v Cheetahs) but this week the guys beat what was infront of them! Not perfect but hey! Better than loosing :lol:

  49. avatar Oranje Orakel says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 6:57 am

    To turn the topic – would have been amazing to see the results had Holland invested more in growing rugby. They have the genes. Similarly it would be just as interesting had afrikaners taken to playing soccer in numbers. We have the genes….
    Comment by newshields — March 4, 2007 @ 12:16 am

    Shields

    All the germanic okes & girls of course- have the genes for Rugby

    The Netherlands- Belgium, Deutschland- Sweden

    Add to that Russia, Poland and there is a whole Rugby frontier that still need to be explored.

    Now we have to mention Sub Saharan Africa. Absolutely huge okes there- not the worst athletes as well.

    I believe its Postman who have posted on the Abbesinian/Kenian form factor- suitable for endurance and then the more west African form factor- suitable to more explosive stuff.

    Then there is of course the real crucible The gOOde olde US of A.

    It seems that teh All Black is more expansion minded that our sorry lot that is “governing” the game.

    Now the question is – what is “our” role in that?

    On Soccer- in the army we played touch a lot and soccer- i always panned out the RockspAAiders( those volksverraaiers who was willing to commit the sacriledge playing with a roundball! :smile: ) against the souties porras greeks.

    Funny thing was we although we did not had a dog arses idea about soccer- we never lost.

    Ok they moaned that we were “overly robust” but still – the inherent ability is there.

    I am of the opinion that soccer is a great game- although at ( if I may quote St Mike) “the highest level” soccer do not cater for a s many “body types” as Rugby.

  50. avatar KSA Shark © says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 7:27 am

    Ras

    29 Sandshark 21.87
    30 Rasputin 21.83

    0.04 is only but a small gap, but then so is 1 point. (ask the saders) :wink:

  51. avatar KSA Shark © says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 7:32 am

    Ok they moaned that we were “overly robust? but still – the inherent ability is there.

    Nee OO.

    I was also part of the “kick and charge” brigade at school and in the army. If there was ever a ref involved, the Afrikaner (I am one) would not be able cut it with the above average let alone the best. The robust play cannot substitute skill at all.

    I only have to think back to how good the souties who changed from soccer to rugby were to realise that a good soccer player will mostly make a good rugby player with his skill. but a good rugby player will hardly ever make a good soccer player with his “kick and charge” abilities.

    Boere laaities just don’t have football brains in their blood compared to the souties and the black guys.

  52. avatar SARugbyFan_FormerlyKnownAsStormsaam says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 11:36 am

    Jeez, KSA.

    There some unbelievably racist generalisations going on here! Given that you’re an Afrikaner, I’ll excuse you this time…

    You clearly never played against Paarl Boys, Paarl Gym and Paul Roos. Their backline players had bulk and skills. Their handling was usually sublime and done at pace.

    But the most skilled sportsman I ever saw was a bloke called Herchelle…

    Provincial soccer, rugby, cricket and athletics.

  53. avatar KSA Shark © says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 11:43 am

    Storm

    There are obviously exceptions :smile: Is Herschelle Afrikaans or English.

    But in general (yes I am generalising) Boere wit ou’s don’t play soccer as well as English wit ou’s.

  54. avatar Kandas says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 11:45 am

    KSA

    Maybe it’s ’cause wit okes can’t act… :smile:

  55. avatar Kandas says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 11:45 am

    Boere wit okes that is…

  56. avatar KSA Shark © says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 11:46 am

    I am trying to get the point that we (Afrikaans whites) do not really have much “inherent ability” to play soccer.

  57. avatar KSA Shark © says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 11:47 am

    Could be Kandas

    Could be.

    Also not good at Gymnastics. (essential to be able to tumble when you fall and hold your leg at the same time)

  58. avatar Kandas says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 11:52 am

    I’m still chuffed with myself for that “Sharks by 1″ SuperBru prediction. :mrgreen:

    Couldn’t sleep at all last night.

    Falling out of the bus with FL though! :sad:

  59. avatar KSA Shark © says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 11:59 am

    I moved up from 20 to 15 on the FL started at 30 after round one.

    Slowly but surely climbing. Will be happy with top 7 come end of the series.

  60. avatar redj says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 11:59 am

    hehehe.
    here we go.
    Comment by Duiwel — March 3, 2007 @ 10:00 pm

    A true visionary Duiwel.

    Did you use a crystal ball or the cards? :lol:

  61. avatar Kandas says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 12:06 pm

    No I’m way out on FL. Made some stupid mistakes.

    Moved from 23 to 12 this weekend on SuperBru though. Must just stay in touch with the frontrunners from now on. Whindy’s got an intersting strategy though.

  62. avatar Stan says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 1:13 pm

    Yes, it can be better.
    The Cheetahs should have won that game. Rassie will have to stop with all his baboontricks, and start winning with the team. He will soon be exposed.

    The same goes for the Sharks. You will not win this way overseas. You will have to look at you defence.

  63. avatar Jinx says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 1:23 pm

    KSA Shark @ 11-46am

    There was a time when Afrikaners couldn’t cut it with cricket either. That’s changed. AB, Fanie, Hansie, Boje, Andre Nel and many more built SA to be a force in cricket. The souties would have kaked without them being around.

    I still believe that the more cultures integrate and connect the more hidden gifts are revealed. I think that if/when Afrikaners take to football they’d make awesome centre backs. Hard-nosed SA style John Terry’s (Chelsea). Bafana are lacking potency in their defence and the day more Afrikaners play the game we may go to the next level.

    Already I’m amazed how many Afrikaners watch the Premiership. It astounds me. Their knowledge and passion for the game. Yes, mainly in the younger age group and those that have travelled to Europe etc. It’s exciting. New eyes are needed each day to see change. I love it.

    I remember in the early 80′s seeing Colin Beck ( ex WP/Bok) kicking a football around. He had plenty skill. Carel Dup too. Dan Van Zyl too.

    Not all Afrikaners are 9 feet tall and weighing in at 120 kg’s. People adapt, cultures morph into what’s around to acquire. Often it’s our labelling and programmed perceptions that say this or that is so.

    Life is forever shifting and things are never what they seem.

  64. avatar Kandas says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 1:44 pm

    Very true Jinx

    When I was in Matric and played u/19 Rugby, our Coach made us play soccer on every Monday afternoon. It became quite a competitive thing for us and the one Monday afternoon we were in for a surprise in that, when we arrived for practice, there was a soccer team from the local township waiting for us. Quite unheard of in those days but we had a game and, needless to say, we got thrashed. But we also earned some respect and I remember the Coach gave (which he bought beforehand) each of us a cooldrink afterwards. It was not only a memorable experience but I distinctly remember the one black oke showing our one wing afterwards how to change direction without giving the opponents any indication.

    Needless to say, our Coach almost got fired and the majority of us were forced by our parents to take multiple baths.

  65. avatar The Brand© says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 1:59 pm

    Shields

    - – - – - -
    “Yea right – “insidents?.

    I am still old school regarding “insidents?.

    I like my video ‘evidence’ or sufficient eye-witnesses to create a prima facie case.

    Apart from that I believe the following: “Words are unverified rumours.?

    Comment by The Brand© — March 3, 2007 @ 10:02 pm”
    - – - – -
    “Brand I respect that. I just do not understand why you would be so defensive over the whole situation. There is no need to protect your race or fellow sportsfans etc? Goliath did not attack either of you so why the need to get defensive?
    Comment by newshields — March 3, 2007 @ 10:15 pm
    – - – - – -

    Shields

    I normally don’t react to statements like the kind you made above.

    Given the environment we are opperation in – a’public blogg’, I am posting the following.

    1. What ‘frames of mind’ are you running to believe any aspect of my statement, as per above, was “defensive over the whole situation”?

    2. What ‘frames of mind’ are you running to believe any aspect of my statement, as per above, was to “protect your race or fellow sportsfans etc.”?

    3. What ‘frames of mind’ are you running to believe any aspect of my statement, as per above, was in reaction to “Goliath did not attack either of you”?

    What I notice is that you have issues and thought prosesses, that you are projecting onto others – whose comments you yourself experience to be in contradiction to your own believes.

    Have you per chance stood back and considered that my statement, as per above, might have been extremely ‘cold’, as in ‘removed’ objectivity?

    Have you considered that my statement, might have been a call for factual evidence and not only hearsay.

    First get the behavioural evidence that will ‘stand-up’ in a court of law – before we get all emotional about anything.

    Once all the ‘sufficient’ evidence are produced and on the table – then we can discuss any matter ‘objectively’ – but hey where is the ‘fun’ in that I suppose (my attribution).

    So I take the stand – emotions are not intelligent – produce behavioural evidence that will ‘stand’ in court.

    But then again, will we be able to go all emotional when that happens?
    Maybe this is all about getting lekker emotional and have noting to do with the old ‘boring facts’ of the matter (my attribution).

    Getting all emotional we can throw into the packet the ‘bad’ colonial brutal deprivation of sweet innocent not-indiginious populations – o yes and just for the more emotional argument add the de-humanising practices brought to our shores by first the Hollanders, then the British Empire, thereafter enforced into legislation by the same British Empire in early 1900′s creating the blue-print for what we today call ‘apartheid’ (my attribution).

    So yes Shield I prefer factual behavioural evidence – before I jump onto a bandwagon of any kind.

    Therefore my statement: “ Words are unverified rumours.”

    I hope this has cleared the air and maybe your ‘frames of mind’ as to why maybe some folks don’t think and feel like you do?

    I do value your passion for the racial matters.

    I appreciate your willingness to engage those you believe are maybe not.

    But I request you to not ‘add your meaning’ to what I actually mean.

    Please comment on my points of view.
    But don’t attribute your ‘frames of mind’ to what I say!!!
    As if – that – is what I said.

    To everyone else having to read this – I deemed it necessary to reply in this same forum to the attributions made to my statement.

  66. avatar Oranje Orakel says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 5:03 pm

    KSA Shark @ 11-46am

    Ok KSA That is your opinion I will respect it- but you will never find me advocating your opinion on this one!

    Just tell why has zeGermans the acendancy when they play ZeAnglo’s

    Its not all down to genes

    Afrikaner boykies usually do not play hockey- but when they do they are quite gOOd.

    The same will happen when they are exposed at an early stage to soccer. here I would like to touch on what Kandas said- obviously the coaching will play a role. A gOOde soccer coach – should coach them and tech them the skills as that soccer wing did

    only then will inherent talent comes to the fore.

    On your post The Brand

    That is exactly the reason why I contacted hadley Goliath – to discuss in person.

    After about 6 telephone conversations and an eye2eye discussion later – I can say – in MY opinion that he is a passionate and contributing sports fan and that I can accept his version as a true reflection of how he experienced it.

    That is gOOde enough for me.

    Positive Crown/Supporter Education is needed.

  67. avatar StMichel says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 5:14 pm

    At last I’m back in.

  68. avatar Oranje Orakel says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 5:17 pm

    Oh and BTW this is a Brannas topic worth reading!

    Of dolphins and men
    By Amy Sutherland, January 2007

    How exotic-animal trainers helped cure my husband’s bad habits – and a few of my own.

    As I wash the dishes, my husband paces behind me, irritated. “Have you seen my keys?” he snarls, then huffs and stomps from the room with our dog, Dixie, anxiously at his heels. In the past I would have been right behind Dixie. I would have joined the hunt while trying to soothe my husband with homilies such as, “Don’t worry, they’ll turn up.”

    But that only made him angrier, and a simple case of missing keys soon would become an angst-ridden drama starring the two of us and one poor, nervous dog.

    Now, I focus on the wet dishes. I don’t turn around. I don’t say a word. I’m using a technique I learnt from a dolphin trainer.

    I love my husband. He is well-read and adventurous. But he also tends to be forgetful, and is often tardy and mercurial. He hovers in the kitchen when I’m trying to concentrate on the simmering pans. He suffers from serious bouts of spousal deafness, but never fails to hear me when I mutter to myself on the other side of the house. “What did you say?” he’ll shout.

    These minor annoyances are not the stuff of separation and divorce but, basically, they began to dull my love. I wanted – needed – to nudge Scott a little closer to perfect, to make him into a mate who might annoy me a little less, who wouldn’t keep me waiting at restaurants: a mate who would be easier to love.

    So, like many wives before me, I ignored a library of advice books and set about improving him. By nagging, of course, which only made his behaviour worse: he’d drive faster instead of slower; shave less frequently, not more; and leave his reeking bike garb on the bedroom floor longer than ever.

    We went to a counsellor. She didn’t understand what we were doing there and complimented us repeatedly on how well we communicated. I gave up and resigned myself to stretches of slow-boil resentment and occasional sarcasm. Then something happened.

    Reward and ignore
    For a book I was writing about a school for exotic-animal trainers, I spent days watching students do the seemingly impossible: teaching hyenas to pirouette on command, cougars to offer their paws for a nail clipping and baboons to skateboard. I listened, rapt, as professional trainers explained how they taught dolphins to flip, and elephants to paint. Eventually it hit me that the same techniques might work on that stubborn but lovable species, the husband. The central lesson I learnt from exotic-animal trainers is that I should reward behaviour I like and ignore behaviour I don’t. After all, you don’t get a sea lion to balance a ball on the end of its nose by nagging. The same goes for the husband.

    Back home, I began thanking Scott if he threw one dirty shirt into the laundry basket. If he threw in two, I’d kiss him. Meanwhile, I would step over any discarded clothes on the floor without one sharp word, though I did sometimes kick them under the bed. But as he basked in my appreciation, the piles became smaller.

    I was using what trainers call “approximations”, rewarding the small steps towards learning a whole new behaviour. You can’t expect a baboon to learn to flip on command in one session, just as you can’t expect a husband to begin regularly picking up his dirty socks by praising him once for picking up a single sock. With the baboon, you first reward a hop, then a bigger hop, then an even bigger hop. With Scott the husband, I began to praise every small act every time: if he drove just a bit slower, tossed one pair of underpants into the laundry basket, or was on time for anything.

    Step 2 – analyse
    I also began to analyse my husband the way a trainer considers an exotic animal.

    Enlightened trainers learn all they can about a species – from anatomy to social structure – to understand how it thinks, what it likes and dislikes, what comes easily to it and what doesn’t. For example, an elephant is a herd animal, so it responds to hierarchy. It cannot jump. It is a vegetarian.

    The exotic animal known as Scott is a loner, but an alpha male. So hierarchy matters, but being in a group doesn’t so much. He has the balance of a gymnast, but moves slowly, especially when getting dressed. Skiing comes naturally, but being on time does not. An omnivore, he is what a trainer would call food-driven.

    Once I started thinking this way, I couldn’t stop. At the school, I’d be scribbling notes on how to walk an emu or have a wolf accept you as a pack member, but I’d be thinking, I can’t wait to try this on Scott.

    Incompatible behaviour
    On one field trip with the students, I listened to a professional trainer describe how he’d taught African crested cranes to stop landing on his head and shoulders. He did this by training the leggy birds to land on mats on the ground. This, he explained, is what is called an “incompatible behaviour” – a simple but brilliant concept. Rather than teach the cranes to stop landing on him, the trainer taught the birds something else, a behaviour that would make the undesirable behaviour impossible. The birds couldn’t alight on the mats and his head simultaneously. At home, I came up with incompatible behaviours for Scott to keep him from crowding me while I cooked. To lure him away from the stove, I piled up parsley for him to chop or cheese for him to grate at the other end of the kitchen island. Or I’d set out a bowl of chips and salsa across the room. Soon I’d succeeded: no more Scott hovering around me while I cooked.

    I followed the students to SeaWorld San Diego, where a dolphin trainer introduced me to least reinforcing scenario (LRS). When a dolphin does something wrong, the trainer doesn’t respond in any way. He stands still for a few beats, careful not to look at the dolphin, then returns to work. The idea is that any response, positive or negative, fuels a behaviour. But if a behaviour provokes no response, it typically dies away. In the margins of my notes I wrote, “Try on Scott!”

    It was only a matter of time before he was again tearing around the house searching for his keys, at which point I said nothing and kept at what I was doing. It took a lot of discipline to maintain my calm, but results were immediate and stunning. His temper fell far shy of its usual pitch, then waned like a fast-moving storm. I felt as if I should throw him a mackerel.

    After two years of training…
    Now he’s at it again: I hear him banging a door shut, rustling through papers on a chest in the front hall, thumping upstairs. At the sink, I hold steady. Then, sure enough, all goes quiet. A moment later, he walks into the kitchen, keys in hand, and says calmly, “Found them.” Without turning, I call out, “Great. See you later.” And off he goes, with our much calmer pup.

    After two years of training, my marriage is far smoother, my husband much easier to love. I used to take his faults personally: his dirty clothes on the floor were an affront, a symbol of how he didn’t care enough about me. But thinking of my husband as an exotic species gave me the distance I needed to consider our differences more objectively. I adopted the trainers’ motto: “It’s never the animal’s fault.” I brainstormed new strategies, thought up more incompatible behaviours and used smaller approximations. I dissected my own behaviour, considered how my actions might inadvertently fuel his. I also accepted that some behaviours were too entrenched, too instinctive to train away. You can’t stop a badger from digging, and you can’t stop my husband from losing his wallet and keys.

    The trainer becomes the trained
    Professionals talk of animals that understand training so well, they eventually use it back on the trainer. My animal did the same.

    When the training techniques worked so beautifully, I couldn’t resist telling my husband what I was up to. He wasn’t offended, just amused. As I explained the techniques and terminology, he soaked it up. Far more than I realised. Last autumn, firmly in middle age, I learnt that I needed braces. They were not only humiliating but also excruciating. For weeks, my gums, teeth, jaw and sinuses throbbed. I complained frequently and loudly. Scott assured me that I would become used to all the metal in my mouth. I did not.

    One morning, as I launched into yet another tirade about how uncomfortable I was, Scott just looked at me blankly. He didn’t say a word or acknowledge my rant in any way, not even with a nod.

    I quickly ran out of steam and started to walk away. Then I realised what was happening: he’d given me an LRS. The husband had begun to train the wife. From “The New York Times” (June 25, 2006) ? 2006 by The New York Times Co, New York

  69. avatar Oranje Orakel says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 5:17 pm

    HowZit St Mike

    Missed you alot!

  70. avatar Oranje Orakel says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 5:17 pm

    :grin:

  71. avatar StMichel says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 5:21 pm

    Thanks OO.

  72. avatar Oranje Orakel says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 5:26 pm

    Whats up St Mike -Still coming to Cape Town next year?

  73. avatar The Brand© says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 5:26 pm

    OO

    Great stuff!!!

    Most important is this part – I can say – in MY opinion and I can accept his version as a true reflection of how he experienced it.

    There is zero attribution going on – thanks for making the concept ‘tangible’.

    Well done and that is brilliant.

    Incidentally – when one is behaviour specific it is nearly impossible to insult someone else.
    When one is opiniated it is nearly impossible not to insult someone else – when of different opinion.

  74. avatar StMichel says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 5:40 pm

    yes sooner than that oo.

  75. avatar Oranje Orakel says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 5:44 pm

    Then Enjoy St Mike

    hehehe The Brand

    Catching up I say

    Whats your take on the Dolphin training story!

  76. avatar redj says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 5:51 pm

    BLACKS are still abused, threatened, sworn at and generally made to feel unwelcome by whites at rugby stadiums.

    We were told many times by white supporters that we did not belong at their stadium and must leave to support our own sports.

    ……we are chased away by white Cheetahs’ supporters just because we are black.

    I know of people who don’t attend games any more because of the drunkenness and rudeness of their fellow whites.

    I am sick of this and have decided that the whites can keep their rugby and their stadium.

    Whites have a lot to learn from the “Siwelele? (Bloemfontein Celtic) supporters right under their noses.

    It seems as if it is fine for you white okes if the blacks don’t complain to the press when this stuff happens to them & if we do complain, we have alterior motives.

    Look in the newspapers & you see how whites complain about blacks, we don’t say it is because of their attitude.

    The whites used to press our heads into the toilet bowls at the rugby and cricket when we were younger & still some of us kept on returning to these games.

    COMMENT:

    Sure sounds like all whites to me! But then again its just my opinion.

    BTW I watched every sinlgle game, like many of you. I focussed on every single face if only for the few seconds they were shown.

    Sure looked to me like every one was jumping, smiling, screaming, rejoicing.

    No doubt there were one or two racial / drunken insults exchanged between the close on 300000 in those stadiums, but hey isn’t that the case worldwide?

    I look forward to hearing of any incidents that anyone saw “live” at these games. It will help us to better understand the extent of the problem.

    Until then I choose to support the vast majority of rugby supporters of all hues who are in any case decent folk.

    Peace!

  77. avatar Oranje Orakel says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 5:56 pm

    cant fault your logic Redj

    I am just not that critical on the generalization part

    If he had said “all” whites

    But rest assured on one issue

    If we do succeed to implement a Crowd Incident management Systems- it will reflect ALL incidents reported!

  78. avatar redj says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 6:06 pm

    OO

    Don’t know anything about CImS but it sure sounds as if it would be handy in giving the true picture out there.

    Discussions this weekend about club rugby in the Cape are troublesome and I am sure that guys like CF will use everything they can to achieve their goals.

    Is it going to be human based reporting or what?

  79. avatar Oranje Orakel says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 6:14 pm

    RedJ

    me and hadley is busy with discussions on what such an CIMS must accomplish and then on th how

    I ahve also spoken to CF about it.

    Vidoe feed will be nice but not necessarily possible in the beginning.

    It might be as simple as a sms based reporting system of which the results is plotted on a virtual stadium. Supporeters will be senistised in the media about reporting what they experienced in the stadium.

    Good racial interaction will also be an option!

  80. avatar newshields says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 7:53 pm

    Hi everyone,

    Brand what a nice way to call me an opinionated twat!

    I will work on my aggro.

    OO that sms idea sounds great.

    Oh and I have a friend who played no 9 all his life. Lost of speed an lost of skills but just not aggresive enough to make it in top flight rugby. I encouraged him to go play in the Bethlehem township league. He managed to play just one game which happened to be the last of the season. He scored 8 goals – still a bethlehem record in any league!

    He is now in Joburg sorting our some jobs and then he will go and train for a spot in one of Wits’ teams.

  81. avatar newshields says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 7:58 pm

    Jinx you are spot on. Many John Terrys around among the boere i’d say.

    Yes soccer does not cater for many body types but aggression is a prerequisite for most rugby positions whereas in soccewr you dont really have that problem.

    I’d love nothing more than to see every previously model c school have a soccer programme.

    KSA I remember from around st 8 (1994) many of my friends started following premiership football. We demanded to play soccer every time we had a PT class. Was also nice to have the porras and souties involved. This is where we became friends with ‘them’. Friendships that lasts to this day.

    Imagine what having some boere getting actively involved in soccer can do for race relations in SA!

  82. avatar Provincejoulekkading says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 7:59 pm

    Dont you guys have anything better to do? :lol:

  83. avatar robdylan© says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 8:00 pm

    Go sharks go! He he

  84. avatar The Brand© says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 8:02 pm

    Shields

    I value you tooooo much to ever say or mean that.

    See there you did it again – attributing your own meaning – to what I said.

    Same, but different, to what I said to Cab a while ago – how borring would it be if we all agree.

    So disagree ‘voluit’ – just back off with – meaning attributions.

    Keep your disagreement – behavioural specific – it does wonders to have someone else hold the mirror up to your own behaviour.

    In the beginning you have to keep on reminding yourself – about the behaviour specific feedback.

    Thus – if I don’t like the guy saying those things to me – aaaahhhhh – I have to stop doing and saying those things then.

    Toooooook me a loooooong time – still stuggle often than not.

    But it works wonders for effective communicating and getting things done!!!!

  85. avatar robdylan© says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 8:03 pm

    Newshields! You’re younger than me!

    you joining us tomorrow night, Clayton?

  86. avatar newshields says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 8:05 pm

    pjld did you see the movies on offer tonight. Biggest load of shite ever. Much better here evenw with you stormers and your newfound confidence after one win. Lekker om te kak as jou maag vol is!

  87. avatar robdylan© says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 8:13 pm

    I love all saffers tonight, even stormers and bulls supporters

  88. avatar Provincejoulekkading says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 8:13 pm

    Hey man, my confidence never faltered, admitted it was foolish confidence but it was there!

    Im at work bru,something came up and here i am.

  89. avatar Provincejoulekkading says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 8:14 pm

    Yo Rob,that is my plan.

  90. avatar redj says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 8:15 pm

    Given the new-found fondness for soccer might I suggest:
    SS3 Soccer
    SS4 Soccer
    SS5 Soccer
    SS6 Soccer
    SS7 Soccer
    SS8 Soccer
    ESPN Soccer

    Trues nunnies, all currently showing, have a look. :wink:

  91. avatar robdylan© says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 8:18 pm

    Red, I also noticed that! Appalling. Trying to find rugby highlights, to no avail.

    claytie, looking forward to it

  92. avatar newshields says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 8:21 pm

    Cheers Brand,

    I get what you are saying. The comments made by redj the week before just stuck with me and I had to let it out and discuss my feelings with him over the matter. Next thing you popped in and also took what I deemed a defensive stance on the whole matter.

    I grew up in a household (and a country) where we were not taught to critique anything. This leaves people to never question the wrongs in their own behavior whilst focussing entirely on the wrongs of others. Once the ‘us’ is criticised everyone jumps to its defense without really considering whether the ‘outsiders’ has a point or not.

    You argument against hearsay is valid but it becomes a problem in a world where we dont always have CCTV or even witnesses willing to confirm or refute an event. Shit we even live in a world where people are reluctant to trust one another. In the light of the above Mr goliath dont stand a chance against redj and i dont think that is fair.

  93. avatar newshields says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 8:24 pm

    redj you should not be hogginh the remote. let the missus watch the movie and let the soccer fundies enjoy their soccer as all of yesterday was takenup by rugby and soon everything will be cricket!

    Forget a soccer match on the telly though. Whereas a rugby game is at times better on the telly a soccer game live is a totally different experience. If you have never been to one make time and go.

  94. avatar robdylan© says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 8:25 pm

    Where is David when you need him? This Goliath character is getting outta hand.

  95. avatar robdylan© says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 8:27 pm

    Man, no matter how many times they try, Pride and Prejudice will just never be entertaining as a movie

  96. avatar Provincejoulekkading says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 8:28 pm

    Soccer soccer soccer, i cant wait for WPW tomorrow because once again Liverpool went down to the mighty Red Devils!

    Im gonna have so much fun it shouldnt be legal.

  97. avatar robdylan© says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 8:30 pm

    Lonely! I’m mr lonely!

  98. avatar Provincejoulekkading says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 8:30 pm

    Im still here boet!

  99. avatar Provincejoulekkading says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 8:31 pm

    Are you in CT at the moment Rob?

  100. avatar newshields says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 8:32 pm

    Man, no matter how many times they try, Pride and Prejudice will just never be entertaining as a movie

    Comment by robdylan© — March 4, 2007 @ 8:27 pm

    Very true!

    Talk about entertainment: gonna be cracker to see the sharks lose once again in bloemmies! then you will see the mr goliath character get out of hand together with his tjomma here in yeoville!

    Wanna bet a sixpack guinness?

  101. avatar newshields says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 8:32 pm

    pjld so what is fester the new hero now or are you okes all waiting for next week to make up your minds?

  102. avatar robdylan© says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 8:33 pm

    Claytie, don’t tell me you’re a scum fan. How sad

  103. avatar redj says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 8:34 pm

    Shield

    “Mr goliath dont stand a chance against redj”?

    I strongly object to your inference that either Hadley or I should prevail in this discussion.

    When exactly did it escalate into a dispute that needs a victor?

    I am questioning the veracity and generalisation within his statements!

    That neither makes him / I right or wrong, until proved by the facts.

    Neither of us have a need or even a responsibility to answer each other.

    But just to put your statement into perspective, 80% of the posts on the matter have been in support of his statements not mine.

    I have absolutely no problem with that at all.

  104. avatar robdylan© says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 8:36 pm

    I am in cape town, ja.

    shields, I never bet on rugby. I do believe that we should probably go into saturday’s game as favourites, which means we probably won’t win

  105. avatar Provincejoulekkading says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 8:38 pm

    I still cant wait for the shiny headed one to go but i am in agreement with some posts this week that this is a emotional decision.

  106. avatar robdylan© says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 8:39 pm

    Red, for the record, I consider you a top oke

  107. avatar robdylan© says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 8:41 pm

    Stormers always play one really good match each year. I get the feeling yesterday’s was that match.

  108. avatar Provincejoulekkading says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 8:42 pm

    Coulda shoed you a few spots this evening man.

    Used to be a soccer fan of note, but i have been converted.

    Still play the game to keep fit.

  109. avatar Provincejoulekkading says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 8:43 pm

    Like last years Crusaders game?

  110. avatar Provincejoulekkading says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 8:43 pm

    shoed = showed

  111. avatar newshields says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 8:44 pm

    No redj you got me wrong. I had a chat with Brand on this and my anger with you was resolved once you explained your context on the matter.

    Prior to this I felt that for you to refute the abuse mr goliath talks about is unfair because ther eis very little he can do to convince you seeing as you were not there. You in effect deny him his voice because there was no witness or camera that could prove him right. But we sorted that out I believe.

    My talk with Brand was based on the anger I felt toward you before you better explained your stance.

    I do agree with you over the use of the word ‘whites’ by mr goliath. I find that many balck africans do not yet know how to communicate racial tension in a politically correct way seeing as the white man is not in power anymore. Imagine a white guy saying ‘black this and blacks that’! He will be ripped to shreds by the PC police but some black people think its OK to take this rather aggresive stance toward white people based on historical irregularities.

    I dont think Mr goliath is a racist just because he uses the word ‘white’ in the way that he did. Dont think he is very PC though and he does shoot from the hip – but then again, so do I.

    However if all the world was totally PC we woiuld stop talking to each other altogether. I’d rather someone call me a doos than ignore me.

  112. avatar robdylan© says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 8:45 pm

    That’s exactly what I mean, Clayton. Still got the family tonight and I’m also feeling quite fluey

  113. avatar redj says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 8:47 pm

    Shields

    In an earlier post I mentioned that I knew nothing about soccer.

    I don’t actually know much.

    However if Stan, Davids or any of the other ex-Zims guys happened to attended Milton High School in 1971/72 they might want to search through the school magazine for those years for the name DB on the 2nd and 1st team Soccer photo’s.

    Another clue is look at the guy sitting in the middle with the soccer ball between his feet. To his left is the Headmaster and to his right the soccer coach.

    Again “DB” is the clue. Once they have seen it look at my rugrat photo, who knows? :wink:

  114. avatar robdylan© says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 8:48 pm

    Newshields, I think you’re a doos! He he.

  115. avatar Provincejoulekkading says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 8:49 pm

    Aaah no worries

  116. avatar redj says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 8:49 pm

    Thanks Rob, now I just have to earn that compliment. :smile:

  117. avatar Provincejoulekkading says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 8:50 pm

    BWWAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAA :lol:

  118. avatar robdylan© says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 8:51 pm

    Red, I think I just caught your hint!

  119. avatar redj says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 8:52 pm

    Shields

    No problem. :smile:

  120. avatar robdylan© says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 8:53 pm

    Red, if only all Bulls supporters could be as objective as you are. You humble me, sir. I mean that honestly

  121. avatar newshields says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 8:54 pm

    Ja robd I felt you were the favourites in the CC semis and it looked like the sharks was never even in the game. Its a cheetah home game though so I hope we win, just like I hoped the bulls would win against the cheetahs at loftus.

    So no love for my second team this weekend.

    Dont bet on rugby? why not old wise one?

  122. avatar Oranje Orakel says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 8:56 pm

    hehehe

    Oranje onderbroeke een te veel, Orania-man landuit

    Maryna van Wyk
    Bloemfontein

    Die grootste “breker? van die groep Oraniërs wat nie in die verlede met die bestuur van dié Afrikaner-volkstaat saamgestem het nie, is op pad landuit.

    Mnr. André Putter, voormalige waterfiskaal van Orania, gaan nou elders rus en vrede soek.

    Orania se nuutste modegier, oranje onderbroeke, is vir Putter net te oordadig. Hy het onlangs sy plaas buite Orania vir minder as die werklike waarde verkoop. Hy en sy gesin verhuis binnekort na Australië.

    Van die ander “brekers? se grond is glo ook in die mark. Die “brekers?, ’n paar gegoede huisgesinne wat die afgelope twee jaar die bestuurstyl van Orania as ondemokraties bestempel het, is glo besig om een vir een in te pak.

    ’n Uitgesproke Putter het die afgelope week gesê hy is verskeie kere met die dood gedreig. Hy het sedert Orania se ontstaan in 1992 daar gewoon nadat hy met ’n simboliese trek van Limpopo deur die land gereis het. Hy het ’n plaas in Orania gekoop en met pekanneute geboer.

    Putter moes verlede jaar ná ’n skikking in die hooggeregshof in Kimberley oor die beheer van water in Orania sekere bestuurslede om verskoning vra vir beweerde laster.

    “Die oordrewe oranje klere wat almal dra, raak te erg om te aanskou. Sommige mense is van pet tot skoene in oranje geklee. Ek is ontnugter deur die sogenaamde volkstaat-ideaal. My volle verhaal is in ’n boek oor Orania wat eersdaags verskyn. Daarom moet ek weggaan, want ek vrees vir my en my gesin se veiligheid,? sê Putter.

    Hy sê hy het tydens sy verblyf in Orania besef sekere bevolkingsgroepe in die Noord-Kaap kan nie van die ontwikkeling van die streek uitgesluit word nie. Gekleurde werkers van die Noord-Kaap mag nie in die klein wit “volkstaat? werk of woon nie, maar is welkom om die drankwinkel te ondersteun.

    “Ons brekers is gevra om Orania eerder te verlaat omdat ons nie met die bestuur saamstem nie. Ek is steeds oortuig daarvan alle Oraniërs kan nie oor dieselfde kam geskeer word wanneer besluite geneem word nie,? sê hy.

    Orania se woordvoerder het nie op Rapport se e-pos-navrae gereageer nie.

  123. avatar newshields says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 8:58 pm

    So redj a soccer player perhaps in his school days? Dont tell your fellow bulls fans they will think you a moffie! Loftus raking it in with its soccer games thesedays!

  124. avatar robdylan© says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 8:58 pm

    Hey, I’m only a year older, so none of this old wise one nonsense! I don’t believe in investing where I have no control over or influence on the outcome.

  125. avatar StMichel says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 9:00 pm

    Robd I’ve made a pretty fortune investing over the years in areas where I have no control and cannot influence the outcome. I’d suggest a more enlightened approach my good man.

  126. avatar newshields says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 9:04 pm

    I don’t believe in investing where I have no control over or influence on the outcome.

    Comment by robdylan© — March 4, 2007 @ 8:58 pm

    Rob you may not be that old but that kind of maturity borders on the insane. Your wife ever call you a boring old fart? She is probably right! Now get in your mustard suit and your jaguar and have dinner at the bowls club. Oh shit its way too late to be out!

  127. avatar robdylan© says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 9:04 pm

    I’ll wait for your book then, shall I St Mick? You know that I’m moving to your soggy homeland soon?

  128. avatar robdylan© says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 9:06 pm

    Boring old fart. He he, that’s practically her pet name for me!

  129. avatar Provincejoulekkading says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 9:07 pm

    :lol: rob

  130. avatar redj says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 9:07 pm

    Rob

    Will the move be permanent or a mere sojourn?

    Either way milk the sods for as much as you can.

  131. avatar robdylan© says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 9:08 pm

    Ok, off to bed for me. Work tomorrow

  132. avatar robdylan© says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 9:11 pm

    Red, probably at least 5 years. Will take things as they come, though

  133. avatar Provincejoulekkading says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 9:12 pm

    Yep Yep, im outta here shortly as well

  134. avatar newshields says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 9:13 pm

    Night rob.

    St Mich my dear old friend. Congrats on your oscar wins. Its nice to have these cultural distractions at times when your sports teams are not competative.

  135. avatar robdylan© says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 9:13 pm

    See ya tomorrow night

  136. avatar redj says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 9:18 pm

    Yep thats it.

    Night Shields and anyone else still around.

  137. avatar Kandas says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 9:34 pm

    Jirre you okes can talk kak if you want to!

  138. avatar newshields says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 9:39 pm

    Hehehe kandas thats what its all about! I’m off too ’cause with the stormers win no-one wants to talk about the cheetahs!

  139. avatar cab says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 9:47 pm

    yessus what a great weekend.

    they might as well start stencilling our name in on the web ellis trophy.

  140. avatar Oranje Orakel says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 9:55 pm

    hehehe

    Trust Jake White to screw it up Cab

    :grin:

  141. avatar newshields says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 10:01 pm

    Now thats a fight for another day OO!

  142. avatar Oranje Orakel says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 10:03 pm

    hhehehe Shields

    Wasnt trying to fite

    Even Olde Jake himself would have had a chuckle there!

    Pity the Cabster isnt around!

  143. avatar newshields says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 10:04 pm

    Who do you guys think has put his hand up so far for bok selection? Interesting that White will pick some new faces for the Trinations and rest his team. I wonder if he will pick some really young players with an eye on selection after the WC or will he just pick fringe players?

    Ernst Joubert is klopping hard on the door as a serious contender for Bok captaincy in 2008.

  144. avatar Oranje Orakel says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 10:05 pm

    Ernst joubert is a YSTER!

    Lions is playing well- and they are captained well!

  145. avatar newshields says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 10:06 pm

    Hehehe OO I know. The zuma- mbeki debate is a bit changed now that Steve has entered the fray!

    Where is cab off to now?

  146. avatar newshields says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 10:07 pm

    Best thing about him is he can speak tommietaal really well.

  147. avatar Oranje Orakel says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 10:10 pm

    Yip He is gOOde enough for that role

  148. avatar cab says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 10:12 pm

    lol OO, no its going to be our year this, i have to keep half a lid on my jubilation with the 22 ABs out, but there is too much talent coming through…surely?

  149. avatar newshields says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 10:16 pm

    I see keo running arti on Joubert. Let me go read.

    Ja cabbie remember when Jean and John and Fourie etc returned to the CC the immediate impact they made. But the Kiwis will be rusty for at least 2 games.

  150. avatar Oranje Orakel says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 10:17 pm

    hehehe Cab

    We have a gOOde and honest chance cab

    now just bigchief many feathers to get his combinations spot on!

  151. avatar cab says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 10:19 pm

    ya agree, not an easy thing to do…wonder if he’ll experimient in the winter tests, to rest the top boys?

    cheetahs need barend back asap, rassie’s side also have combinations with question marks hey?

  152. avatar newshields says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 10:21 pm

    Eerie, its like keo was thinking of the same thing I was? I feel dirty! hehe

    He wonders about a fullback. My concern is who will play 10 if Butch or Andre gets injured (about 60% chance that both of them will get injured!) So pick steyn at 10 and Percy at 15 but then we have no depth. Id say give Burger a shot but he is too small for the White camp.

    Probable that Breyton will go and with his experience why not.

  153. avatar cab says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 10:21 pm

    newshield,
    i think the kiwis have done the right thing, these guys are going to come back in spectacular shape…actually beting nz’s best is a very very tall order…perhaps i should put the bottle down.

  154. avatar Oranje Orakel says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 10:22 pm

    Cheetahs will either fly or crash against Sharks Cab

    Team is under the cosh!

    problem is that they are not even convincing when playing their stock kind of game.

    The Pick-up and drive are sort of ok ish but its tuff going and is almost an acceptance of a useless backline

  155. avatar cab says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 10:23 pm

    ernst try was only good hey, got a turn of speed for a big fellow…but the real workhorse in that team that never really gets the credit deserved is baywatch, got to be the fittest player in the competition.

  156. avatar newshields says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 10:25 pm

    What happened to Hendrik Meyer? I also want Rassie to leave the experimentation and jst pick Bosman at 10 from now on. Yes he has a little bit of potential at 12 but he does not like tackling and thats not something you learn through practise.

    When will Giscard be back? We really have injuries to key players dont we?

  157. avatar newshields says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 10:27 pm

    Ja baywatch is really effective and not a show pony at all. Perhaps thats the secret of the Lions at the mo. Hard working players – no showsters. Wait till the media gets ahold of them, I smell endorsments by the millions! Hope they stay grounded.

  158. avatar Oranje Orakel says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 10:29 pm

    Agree cab

    I think hendrik meyer will play against the Sharks

    Hollenbach might as well

    My loosies right now

    6 baywatch
    7 Juan Smith
    8 AJ Venter

  159. avatar cab says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 10:30 pm

    OO,
    i think its going to be a hard game, which is a shame since two SA teams, but thats rugby i guess. cheetahs have it over the sharks at the mo.

    agree with you on backs, no danger, never been a fan of joubert at centre, not sure about meyer bosman’s temperament (all the skills tho).
    i’d play
    9. claasens 10. bosman
    12. hendrik meyer 13. cOOke
    11. burger 14. Mangeni 15. fortuin

    cheetahs seem to have the sharks worked out, but i am hoping for a sharks win for a home semi this year…would support the cheetahs if they were in the same posi, but went off the boil against saders and chiefs, quite dissapointing for me actually, seem to play more conservative.

  160. avatar newshields says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 10:32 pm

    perhaps i should put the bottle down.

    Comment by cab — March 4, 2007 @ 10:21 pm

    Hehehe cabbie. As long as we have individuals stepping to the fore big time the boks will be ok. So far our boks have done rather well for their respective teams. Not sure about Divs though. He made some line breaks but he is still dodgy on defence and his decision making sucks for a man of such reputed ‘vision’.

    I’d love for the Jaco/Fourie combo to work so well that White has to continue it. Have Divs on the wing if you must.

  161. avatar cab says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 10:34 pm

    OO, agree on loosies.

    newshield thats precisely it, having to graft for wins, reckon rugby’s a very fair game like that in that often the team with the most hunger and guts will win.

    hell..looking at those players i cant for the life of me work out why the cats were so kak when together.

  162. avatar Oranje Orakel says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 10:35 pm

    I will keep De Waal T 10 and will Hollenbach from the bench – Fredericks havent done that badly to be dropped

    But agree will play Mangweni and Fortuin

    Might even play Fortuin at 10. Been punting that since last year- see he played there for a quarter against the Elephantes

  163. avatar Oranje Orakel says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 10:36 pm

    The lions have lost a lot of the arrogance of yesteryear Cab

    And Eugene Eloff is one hell of a coach!

  164. avatar cab says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 10:37 pm

    i think Div is a fine centre, invariably gets over the advtage line desite crap ball from wp pack, we need some flare, just not in the forwards which is wp’s perennial problem, see andries becker had another great game this weekend…lol what a langelockshen, good player tho.

  165. avatar newshields says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 10:38 pm

    Yes OO you have been punting Bevin at 10 for a while now and I missed his stint on Saturday but I will be on the lookout.

  166. avatar newshields says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 10:40 pm

    Cab Divs is an attacking centre and you win world cups with defense! Against NZ and Oz I still feel most at ease with an in-form Barry than with anyone else!

  167. avatar Oranje Orakel says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 10:40 pm

    Cheers All

  168. avatar cab says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 10:40 pm

    yeah true fredericks always looks dangerous.

    fortuin at 10 interesting, never thought of it.

    anyway okes have a good sleep, may there be many weekends more like this.

  169. avatar cab says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 10:43 pm

    shields,
    yeah grant, barry and jdv are defnitely the stormers best bet, but with the boks hard to go wrong with 10. AP/Butch 12. JdV 13. Fourie/Olivier.

    we need a worldclass winger like habana on the other side, hopefully steyn or jaco p are those two.

    cheers boet

  170. avatar newshields says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 10:43 pm

    Good night lads. Yes many more like this especially in September!

  171. avatar DavidS says:
    March 4th, 2007 at 10:54 pm

    Cab
    I managed to get my paws on a Lions game stat card

    You guys will be amazed at how poor a game Jean De Villiers had.

    But I guess flashy and support Jake White is what you’re about.

    For the record, watson laos had a poor game.

  172. avatar JT says:
    March 5th, 2007 at 12:31 am

    Is it so bad to support Jake White in the WC year?? Davids would you change the national coach now? If not why not throw your support behind the guys and their coach in a year they really need it!?

    Good night.

  173. avatar JT says:
    March 5th, 2007 at 12:32 am

    Oh and PS: if you do not want to support them than join the poms or however :evil:

  174. avatar JT says:
    March 5th, 2007 at 12:32 am

    however = whoever! :oops:

  175. avatar Rasputin says:
    March 5th, 2007 at 12:33 am

    Port Elizabeth – No walking sticks, walking-frames and wheelchairs for retired police colonel Sid Williams, 80, please!

    At school, he used to hide from bullies, but at 80 he’s as strong as a horse.

    Williams may be grey and getting on in years, but he’s got enough muscle power to take on much-younger rivals, and regularly pushes 150kg.

    He says: “At school, I was a puny guy and the bigger boys loved to humiliate me in front of the girls.

    “One day, I’d had enough and I discovered the joys of the gym.”

    Little did he know what he would accomplish with those weights.

    At 64, he was the South African weight-lifting champion in the 100kg division.

    Williams boasts of his feats as a 40-year-old, when he was at his strongest and could push 250kg.

    “And, I’m still one of the strongest people in the world,” he says proudly.

    He says his ability to keep up with the heavies is thanks to his healthy lifestyle.

    Way above average

    “I try to eat as healthily as possible, especially lots of salads. I also liquidise veggies and use that as a health drink.”

    David Levey, biokinetics lecturer at Nelson Mandela Metropolitian University (NMMU), says the 150kg that Williams can lift is way above the average for his age.

    “According to a test to determine the strength of a person’s back, a normal 59-year-old should be able to lift 116.4kg.

    “That’s why it’s unusual for an 80-year-old to lift 150kg.”

  176. avatar Rasputin says:
    March 5th, 2007 at 1:02 am

    You tell him, JT!

  177. avatar Rasputin says:
    March 5th, 2007 at 1:25 am

    Tic Toc
    Mandi Perkins

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=506i9EApdcQ

  178. avatar Stan says:
    March 5th, 2007 at 11:01 am

    If Goliath really gets out of hand, call me….

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