‘Lions were better’
Posted by Admin - 05/07/09 at 11:07 am under British & Irish Lions Tour 2009South African captain John Smit and coach Peter de Villiers on Saturday both conceded that the Springboks were beaten by a better team after the touring British and Irish Lions had won the third Test in Johannesburg.
Sport24
“They had more intensity and their win was well-deserved,” said Smit, and De Villiers added that he was grateful they had won the series, a goal they had set themselves.
The Lions won the third Test 28-9.
Although the loss was disappointing, De Villiers said that it would stand the Boks in good stead for the Tri-Nations with the Springboks playing the first of their six matches on July 25.
“How would you know if you didn’t take the chances?” he answered when asked whether he felt he had done the right thing by making 10 changes to the side which had won the second Test. “We now know what we have to do for the Tri-Nations,” was his view.
And, although the Boks may have missed suspended lock Bakkies Botha, De Villiers gave full credit to the Lions. “We need to honour them for how they played,” he said.
Smit said the series was a great experience from start to finish and that was borne out by the toughness, competitiveness and how close the results were.
“We’ll enjoy the series win, but the Lions were all over us in all departments.”
While Lions coach Ian McGeechan rued the chances they missed in the first two Tests which might just as well have gone their way, according to him, he was pleased with the way the Lions had finished.
“Everybody had the same focus, as has been the case on the whole of the tour, and it shows how well the whole group has integrated into the tour.
“We just didn’t have the breaks, and could well have come into this Test 2-0 up, or one-all, but were 2-0 down.
“I thought we were very accurate today. It is a very pleasant victory, and will last us for years.” He added that he doesn’t think he would have changed anything for the preparations on tour.
“It’s been a fantastic series and I congratulate the Springboks on their series win,” he said.
McGeechan added that he felt questions should be asked about giving the Lions a fair chance to prepare for tours and that seems certain to be taken up once the touring sides gets back home.
Lions captain Paul O’Connell said the past week had been one of the toughest in the careers of the Lions players after losing the series and four of their front players, and felt the series loss greatly.
“But that’s sport. We just rallied and dug deep,” he said and added that it would’ve been tough going home with a 3-0 series defeat.
July 5th, 2009 at 12:24 pm
Well that is relative, because only one team played rugby, the other tried to bully the opponents.
If the Boks tried their hand at rugby then who knows, we might be able to say one was better at the game…
July 5th, 2009 at 1:37 pm
Lions were not better.
The scoreboard says 2-1.
July 5th, 2009 at 1:45 pm
Reply to cab @ 1:37 pm:
What will the 3N scoreboard say?
July 5th, 2009 at 1:47 pm
5-0 Boks
July 5th, 2009 at 1:55 pm
Reply to cab @ 1:47 pm:
Awesome… has Snor been sacked?
July 5th, 2009 at 1:56 pm
Reply to cab @ 1:47 pm:
Jokes aside Cabbo… the AB’s are in trouble… and the Wobblie’s are young as… the time is ripe!
July 5th, 2009 at 2:26 pm
Reply to bryce_in_oz @ 1:56 pm:
Do they still want to fire Henry?
July 5th, 2009 at 4:13 pm
Reply to bryce_in_oz @ 1:56 pm:
lol, snor could be our greatest ever.
actually i reckon the wobblies looking damn hot for this 3n, prob strongest squad they had in ages.
July 5th, 2009 at 7:59 pm
Against tier 1 opponents PdV is now at 10 wins and 5 losses (66.67%).
Opponents = Wal, NZ, Aus, Arg, Sco, Eng, Lions.
If we compare Jake White’s record at the same point against similar opponents.
Before the 3N in 2005.
Opponents: Ire, Wal, PI, NZ, Aus, Eng, Sco, Arg, Fra.
Record = 11 wins, 5 losses and 1 draw (71.88%).
Up there with the best? Yes.
The best ever? Too early to tell.
July 5th, 2009 at 8:59 pm
Reply to fyndraai @ 7:59 pm: This is a really interesting statistic and a good comparison at this point in their Bok coaching careers. Just one thought, JW inherited a beaten Bok setup, that he had to effectively rebuild from scratch, yes there were players that were carried over, but the team in 2004 was very different from the RWC team in 2003. PdV inherited a RWC winning team and organization. He was clever enough to essentially leave alone what was not broken. He made a few changes (and who can begrudge any coach bringing in his favourites), but he left the core intact. He has not dramatically changed the style of play either. So even though the comparison is interesting, perhaps not so fair to compare. Still, some credit should be given for PdV to realize that he had inherited something special, and has tried to build on that rather than start over. I know how he sounds when he speaks publicly, but I actually enjoy it, he has a lekker sense of humour and I end up laughing a lot.
July 5th, 2009 at 10:24 pm
Just watched the game this evening for the first time.
Moer, but the Lions defended like demons. Great rugby.
3N will be great this year, the Aussies are on a high, the AB’s never disappoint and the Boks are looking good.
I am looking forward to some great rugby.
Special mention for Brussouw, the boy is dynamite in a small package, McCaw has competition.
July 5th, 2009 at 11:44 pm
Reply to Ollie @ 10:24 pm:
agree with all of that. One thing to add, player of the series: John Smit.
July 6th, 2009 at 4:04 am
Reply to Dancing Bear @ 8:59 pm:
Agree. the circumstances are for the 1st seasons are not the same but a coach can only play what is in front of him too. I think we all expected better from the Bok team last season but maybe the adjustments PdV made resulted in some losses. If those adjustments were good the payoff should come this year. The 3N will be telling.
Also JW’s results took a real dip in his 3rd season. By next year nobody will be able to say it’s JW’s team anymore. The results, good or bad will be all PdV.
July 6th, 2009 at 9:20 am
Reply to cab @ 11:44 pm:
I think Brussouw has to be pretty close to that. He had three tremendous games. ow many penalties did he earn us? 6, 7?
July 6th, 2009 at 9:37 am
Gavin Rich, writing in the Weekend Argus, wonders how much longer John Smit will be able to keep his team together.
So a British & Irish Lions tour has come and gone and at least this time there won’t be any British journalists butting me on the head while muttering over and over again ‘We did you, we did you’, as happened on this night 12 years ago.
Instead I had to listen to former Lions scrumhalf Matt Dawson, who was on a BBC radio programme I took part in, telling the people of the United Kingdom that the Springbok coach was ‘absolutely bonkers’, ‘unbelievable’ and a ‘discredit to the game’.
And then afterwards, in the final Test, the Lions scored the most emphatic victory of the series.
So yep, you have probably figured it out – I am not sure how I feel.
It was ‘us’ who did them this time, but pretty much the same way as they did us 12 years ago – by exploiting some quite weak selection and strategy decisions from the opposing coach.
Had Ian McGeechan got his selections right for Durban, the Lions would probably have won this series 3-0, and the Boks would have been made to pay a much bigger price than just embarrassment for the fault-lines that are appearing under Peter De Villiers.
The Bok coach has been a severe embarrassment to the country, and those who argue in his favour on the basis of his results are either just not close enough to the team to know what is really going on, or they are wilfully ignoring the facts.
The fact is that De Villiers inherited a World Cup winning team held together by a core of individuals who rank among the most experienced rugby players in the world.
They played against a Lions team that, apart from being poorly selected first up, struggled to come to terms with the challenges posed to the Lions concept in the professional era, when provincial games are no longer proper examinations and there are not really enough of them to get the combinations to groove.
The Lions were hammered 3-0 in New Zealand in 2005, with not one of those games being close, and considering the scarcity of world-class players in the Lions unit, the Boks should have expected something similar.
There are probably a few reasons why this was not the case, and credit must be given to the Lions for the way they fought, but I am inclined to agree with Eddie Jones, who in a London newspaper column described the Boks as a team that looks under-coached.
Yes, the Boks were winning until yesterday, but how much has De Villiers had to do with those victories?
For those who know what is going on within the camp, it will not be news that the players are running the team. It is one of the reasons why they seem on their way to regaining their reputation for indiscipline.
You really can’t allow the inmates to run the prison indefinitely without there being some kind of drawback.
John Smit is taking a great deal on his plate at the moment, and his captaincy last week, the way he kept his players calm when the mortars were falling all around them in that first hour, played a big part in the way the Boks were able to win it in the final minutes.
But how much longer can Smit and his lieutenants Victor Matfield and Fourie du Preez keep the Boks together?
Yesterday the cracks were clearly becoming evident, and the Boks have got progressively worse during the series.
It is when the experienced players go that the Boks are going to need a coach. Is De Villiers the right man to take the Boks to 2011?
I don’t believe he is. His record might look impressive, but there is a big difference between a successful coach and a good coach.
Former Australian cricket coach John Buchanan was an example of a successful coach. The Australian team he was in charge of for several years was brimful of experienced, talented players – all of them world class.
Buchanan’s team picked up trophies and dominated the Test game. But Shane Warne had doubts over Buchanan’s credentials as a coach, and he was vindicated once Buchanan was no longer coaching a team of super-stars. His performance in the recent IPL was so poor that he has now been sacked.
They used to say about Kitch Christie – ‘the right man at the right time’.
It may be that De Villiers will be remembered as ‘the wrong coach at the right time’, meaning that if ever there was a time when a flaky coach could be carried, it is now, when the team has been playing together for so long and has such a long established winning habit.
Unfortunately that means they probably won’t kick onto the level where they should kick onto, and while the coach may, at the moment, be able to get away with having minor input to strategy, that won’t be the case forever.
When the experienced players move on or retire, and inexperienced players become more prevalent in the team, the Boks are going to need a coach.
In fact, they need one now.
By Gavin Rich, Weekend Argus
July 6th, 2009 at 9:57 am
Bokks’ discipline was
up to shit.
Much better under White.
Warmkop Bismarck met
Juan Smith nie ver agter
nie.
Selfs Brussouw was
out of caracter.
Los die sideshows
ala Matfield “Justice”
op die kop en speel
harde rugby met dissipliene.
July 6th, 2009 at 10:50 am
Reply to Cosa @ 9:37 am:
“The Bok coach has been a severe embarrassment to the country, and those who argue in his favour on the basis of his results are either just not close enough to the team to know what is really going on, or they are wilfully ignoring the facts.”
I fully expect people reading this will fall into – the sucker’s choice – put forward by this Rich statement.
Fact is there are many more factors involved which does not suite this writers agenda which he is selling the public.
Nice try Gavin – poor form
July 6th, 2009 at 11:16 am
Reply to Cosa @ 9:37 am:
“For those who know what is going on within the camp”
Well then do your frigging job properly and tell us objective THE FACTS what is happening in the Bok camp instead of eluding to it.
July 6th, 2009 at 11:16 am
Reply to Cosa @ 9:37 am:
“For those who know what is going on within the camp”
Well then do your frigging job properly and tell us THE OBJECTIVE FACTS what is happening in the Bok camp instead of eluding to it.
July 6th, 2009 at 11:35 am
Reply to Ollie @ 11:16 am:
DAAR IS KAK!!
Senior spelers run die span.
Spelers steur hulle nie aan PdV nie.
John Smith is die katalisator – wat dinge nog soortvan bymekaar hou.
July 6th, 2009 at 11:48 am
Reply to PietPloos @ 11:35 am:
PP, all good and well. But at the moment it is just rumour and speculation. The media must come with FACTS, not speculation and comments.
Are they too scared to do an exposé on the issue? If so, why? If not, then why not do one?
It succeeded in getting rid of Straueli, and we got JW who got us a RWC title.
Any reported worth his salt and a half a sense of duty should do it if they had the facts.
It is 1 or 2 months of pain against 2 or 3 years of being laughing stock.
If what they hint at is true then it is the equivalent to putting a bandage on gangrene, you can’t see it physically, but it will kill you in the long run unless it is excised.
July 6th, 2009 at 11:52 am
Reply to Ollie @ 11:48 am:
YOU CAN TAKE MY WORD ON THIS ONE!!
July 6th, 2009 at 12:13 pm
Reply to PietPloos @ 11:52 am:
It’s not that I disbelieve it, it’s just that the right thing needs to be done by the media.
July 6th, 2009 at 12:19 pm
Reply to Ollie @ 12:13 pm:
WELL, they bhave all but said it!
They also need to “protect” the players…
July 6th, 2009 at 12:47 pm
Reply to Ollie @ 12:13 pm:
Destroy the anonymity of their sources… I’d think not…
PP has been saying this for quite some time…
July 6th, 2009 at 1:48 pm
Reply to PietPloos @ 12:19 pm:
Reply to bryce_in_oz @ 12:47 pm:
There are ways and means. They can still have an official report and keep the confidentiality of their sources.
Also, what part to Muir and Gold play then, drawing pay cheques to turn a blind eye?
Do the coaches even pitch up at training? Is their the official game plan of the coaches and then the one that the players themselves actually decide to play.
July 6th, 2009 at 1:50 pm
Reply to PietPloos @ 12:19 pm:
Reply to bryce_in_oz @ 12:47 pm:
Reply to Ollie @ 1:48 pm:
C’mon, there is a lot more info the journo’s could supply, with or without sources.
Sorry, but I have the same trust for the majority of rugby journalists that I do for politicians.
July 6th, 2009 at 1:51 pm
Reply to bryce_in_oz @ 12:47 pm:
What is the point of a source if you cannot verify anything?
Why would John Smit commit to 2011 under this coach if there was kak in the camp?
Most of you know I met PDV way before there was even a thought of him being the Bok coach.
I found him to be a very good coach technically and on the theory of the game. His man-management was brilliant (I saw the team and chatted to the players too outside of the normal formal interviews).
Now you or Ollie can go out now and say they heard from a very reliable source which they have no reason not to trust how brilliant PDV was in most aspects of rugby – but because I asked you not to name me you cannot tell anyone who told you, in what context and in what environment.
Sorry, and obviously with all due respect to PP as we all know how involved he is, but I cannot take everything that is ever said as fact especially from unnamed sources.
We used to play a game called ‘treintjie’ (train) in primary school.
What happens is that the kids sit in a circle, and the teachers gives the kid to her left a sentence.
The rules are you are only allowed to say the sentence once. So as the one kid hears it, he must say exactly what he heard from the kid to his right, to the kid on his left.
The message then comes back to the teacher and she writes what she hears on the board, with the original sentence just below it.
I know it is a stupid example but all this ‘from reliable sources’ reminds me of this game.
It does not mean that the sources are not reliable, or your friends are talking kak, but unless someone is willing to go on record and say something, I put very little value into that so-called fact.
Even if I hear it from someone I know personally so again no reflection on PP, you or your or his friends or contacts.
July 6th, 2009 at 1:53 pm
Reply to Ollie @ 1:48 pm:
This is where we need Keohane.
He is not touring with the team,
other scribes may be afraid of
being banned.
Someone has to have the guts
and spill – otherwise they should
all stop with their innuendos.
And then face the music afterwards.
July 6th, 2009 at 2:01 pm
Reply to Boertjie @ 1:53 pm:
Hahaha!
Apparently keo.co.za was already banned from speaking to Boks!
July 6th, 2009 at 2:25 pm
Reply to Morné @ 2:01 pm:
So they must have a lot to hide then?
July 6th, 2009 at 2:30 pm
Reply to Boertjie @ 2:25 pm:
Or he burned his bridges some time back already.
Being pally, pally with JW probably doesn’t help either
July 6th, 2009 at 2:32 pm
Reply to Boertjie @ 2:25 pm:
Calling the players a disgrace (amongst 100’s of other similar articles) that played Saturday would certainly put them in my shit list as-well.
July 6th, 2009 at 3:12 pm
Ollie
It’s like Watergate
No need to believe.
Or to be sarcastic
Why don’t you show the same faith as what you do in PDV
July 6th, 2009 at 3:22 pm
24 Users online and nobody sayinga thing
Bet its like Ollie and Morne and Deon and JT just waiting for Boertjie I to say something about Pieter the Discharge Vaginal
Or Pieter DV for short
Just burning and aching for it…
July 6th, 2009 at 3:27 pm
Okay
It’s SARU lawyers and then the usual gang of PDV worshitters
I mean worshitters
Oooohh I did it again…
Can’t help myself
Let’s try again
WoooorrrrshiTTTERS
I can’t say worshippers…
July 6th, 2009 at 3:59 pm
Reply to DavidS @ 3:12 pm:
PDV has not proven anything to the contrary yet.
Keo on the other hand has proven a number of times his character, once very clearly with the Dan Qeqe fund.
And as for JW, well we know in black and white that there is no love lost between him and SARU. And nowhere am I showing no faith in him.
Therefore, I am indeed showing faith until proven otherwise.
July 6th, 2009 at 4:00 pm
Reply to DavidS @ 3:22 pm:
Reply to DavidS @ 3:27 pm:
DB was right. Point out.
IGNORE