Success is not measured in trophies alone
Posted by Morné - 14/12/09 at 10:12 am under ColumnistsThis time of year we usually get the ‘awards’ columns from rugby journalists or experts, I am neither so I won’t bore you with another one.
Taking time out and not doing this straight after our last test against Ireland gave me time to reflect on the season more holistically, and in many ways I disagree with the general sentiment out there that this was a special season for the Boks in the sense that people refer, or reflect on 2009.
For me personally, I am left disappointed.
At the end of 2008 I was excited by the promise the team showed. They had a willingness to adapt and change or for a better word, evolve with the game.
2009 however showed me nothing to get me excited.
Yes winning is nice and no-one could be more proud of what the boys achieved on the pitch this year.
It is not every year that we can sit back and look at our trophy cabinet and see a Super 14 trophy, a Lions series trophy, the Tri-Nations trophy, The Mandela Shield (or is it s plate?), the Freedom Cup, the Sevens World Series Trophy, and of course old Bill.
But many guys will tell you it is one thing to get to the top, it is quite another thing to stay there.
So yes, congratulations to Peter and the boys on their success in 2009, but these days the top prize is sustained success.
As an example, the World Cup gives any nation who holds it a bit of bragging rights, but anyone who knows anything about the game would be stupid not to admit that for the last 20 odd years or so, apart from a hiccup every now and then, the All Blacks have been the best in the world.
It is great to have the wood over them in 2009, where we beat them 3 times! But that hardly makes up for the last 15 years or so where we have been the bridesmaids.
So when it comes to sustained success against the top teams in the world we have to ask ourselves – do we believe we will do the same against the All Blacks and Australia (our main rivals) in 2010? I know we all hope and believe it is possible, but hope and belief achieved very little throughout the history of the game. Unfortunately, I personally believe we will not have a similar year of success in 2010, because I have seen very little ‘development’ or some sort of evolution in our game to show me we are not one-trick ponies but a team that grows with the times and ensures sustained domination in the game.
We have plan A, and if that fails, we pretty much have nothing else.
Now Plan A worked pretty well in the first Lions test but got worked out after that.
Plan A worked pretty well in the Tri-Nations for us but also got worked out on the End-of-Year tour especially when we came up against a guy (Gert Smal) that helped devise the plan in the first place.
Have we grown at all since 2007? In 2008 I believed we did, but 2009 showed me that when the chips are down, we are pretty much still those one-trick ponies.
One of our saving graces however is that what we do, we do pretty damn well and in fact, I think we are the best in the world at it. But unfortunately, as 2004 proved where we were the best at the rush defense, we will get worked out.
Peter talked about taking this team to the next level, that we can add another 20 to 30% to these guys and take them to a level to achieve sustained success never before seen in Springbok rugby in the professional era. Not only did I believe him, I also felt he was right and that it could be achieved.
It is not changing or dropping players or not playing towards our strengths, it simply evolving as a team and as players and the class of 2009, showed none of that.
I believe it is best explained in a quote I heard on television on Discovery channel about evolution in general, and that the species (read team) most likely to survive and not go extinct or become someone’s lunch are not those who effect change, but those who adapt to changes (read evolve) best.
In life or in that context you cannot afford to be a one-trick pony, if you are, you will be the ones being dug up and studied in future, rather than those doing the digging or those who survived.
It means that you have to evolve to add multiple dimensions and skills to meet whatever challenge head-on and survive, and not only rely on the tried and tested because as in nature where your enemies (viruses and bacteria) evolve and work out your natural and current defenses, so do professional rugby teams you come up against.
The Springboks have not.
In fact, where we won 69% of our tests in 2008 we only managed to win 66% in 2009. So yes the trophy cabinet might look very pretty, but in terms of our results, we have not evolved, or grown, we have in fact statistically speaking, regressed.
2010 will be a shocker of a year for many teams. Included in that of course I believe will be our Boks who will hit a low next year for many reasons, but also, I think the All Blacks will also suffer a shocker because their situation is very similar to that of the Boks.
I said many times this year that I cannot see the Blacks evolving or changing or becoming better under Henry, and I stand by that still. Take Carter out of that team and they are average.
Teams that will do well in 2010 includes Australia, France and Ireland (so make your picks today if you want to make a couple of bucks).
Australia and Robbie Deans are being criticised in a very similar way Peter was criticised in 2008, but what I believe they do not see is how Deans is busy evolving the game of rugby in Australia with a new breed of player and a fresher, newer way of thinking and playing.
Two years out, those three teams are also my picks for success in 2011 in New Zealand.
Of course the Boks and the Blacks will be there and amongst the top 5 for the next couple of years, because as long as we have the physical edge to the game we have in those two teams, they will be tough to beat.
Within saying that, it also means they only present a singular threat to opposition, where the aim really is to present multiple threats to opposition teams so you cannot be easily worked out and countered.
There is still time for possible success in 2011, but do not expect anything special in 2010.
December 14th, 2009 at 11:15 am
Only a WP or a Shark or a Kiwi could have written this…
But for the truth, rather do not pay attention to the Simonstown Suiplap
Much better idea
1. Just because a team does a certain game plan extremely well over and over and over does not make them “one trick ponies” who can be “found out” – New Zealand has their 5P game style adopted from the Auckland Team of the mid 90’s that went back to the 1987 team. Just because they play a single style and have done so for close on 30 years does not mean they are “one trick ponies”… well does that mean they’ve been find out… ja like when? 1992 France… 1998 Boks…. 1999 Australia…. and nobody else…
2. What about those perrenial kak team in their Cape Town school boys copied blue jerseys from Tshwane that are so hysterically hated in any place south of the Vaal but especially in the Cape…. They’ve played the same style of rugby since 1938…. groot dood voor forwards and a good kicker… have they been found out as “one trick ponies”… you betcha…. has it changed their results? Since 1938 they’ve won the Currie Cup about double the times anyone else have…
3. Germany and Italy soccer teams play the most boring styles of soccer in te world. Germany plays on the simple premise that they just retain possession and the opposition cannot score whilst just being in possession for 90 minutes mean they have a better chance of scoring… and Germany in a penalty shootout we all know who wins… Italy believes in stoic defence and breakaway goal scorers… They have won the world cup more than Brazil and Argenta… are their game plans out figurable? They’re plain obvious but that doesn’t mean opposition can do anything with them.
4. England 2000 to 2003… huge pack of forwards, good leaping lock… scrumhalf who can pass to flyhalf… flyhalf who wins the game… other backs there to tackle… everyone knew exactly what was coming for three years but still England won RWC 2003….
So the “one trick pony” argument by these defining teams is a load of total kak.
The dangers for 2011 is just France… but they are tempramental and we can put them to bed with some PK’s when they visit in 2010…. The french are a one trick pony too. They use their dirty play and Bok watching refs who believe we are to intimidate us… oh and they obsess about size…. France can be beaten… because they are mentally frail… having our key players squeal off with “injuries” and falling for their off the ball tactics (aided by a ref so poor he should be consigned to blowing a key World Cup Soccer Qualifier between Rwanda and Burundi in Kigali as an object lesson to other refs) cost us dearrly… for the first time dare I say it… we need to fight fire with fire when it comes to France…. and ensure we have a southern hemisphere ref…
And yes I agree that due to the amount of play 2010 will be an “annus horribalis” but not for the kak the writer here talks…
December 14th, 2009 at 11:28 am
Reply to DavidS @ 11:15 am:
1. Still having trouble reading I see…
Go have a look, under HENRY the AB’s became one-trick ponies. Take Carter out of that team and they are average. Similar to the Boks, take one or two players out of the Bok team and … you guessed it.
2. The Bulls are anything but one-dimensional, I suggest you re-visit their 2009 Super 14 season. They play a very clever brand of rugby, they have the ability to adapt to situations on the park, which in part is thanks to a certain coach who played in a similar way…
3. I am sure this site is called RuggaWorld and not Poofballworld?
4. Yes and SA had the same in 2007, won the WC too. But when England was asked to adapt and adopt from 2003 where did they find themselves? Do you understand the concept of evolution in general or in the context it is written about here?
And quite typical of losers who have been found out to blame cheating refs for failures…
December 14th, 2009 at 11:51 am
Reply to Morné @ 11:28 am:
“Still having trouble reading I see…”
——————————————-
It look like a sickness these days, people read what they want to see!!
December 14th, 2009 at 11:59 am
Reply to Bunny @ 11:51 am:
I think as a public service we have to start a fund and have Davids kids come to Cape Town to get a proper eduction because they sure as shit are not teaching okes to read up there.
December 14th, 2009 at 12:03 pm
Reply to Morné @ 11:59 am: That’s why I made the decision to leave PTA for Paarl, to get my kids back to the roots and get my son to play proper rugby and get the education they need to be intelligent Adults.
Go Cape Town
December 14th, 2009 at 12:03 pm
Reply to Morné @ 11:59 am: I will put R10 into fund to start it off.
December 14th, 2009 at 12:12 pm
Eish
on SoCCer
As usual, coz he wont read- the ERT got his facts wrong
Brazil 5
Italy 4
Deutschland 3
Argentina 3 yeah MaravoKKendoNNa se ma ….
December 14th, 2009 at 12:22 pm
Reply to WiLLem @ 12:12 pm: Don’y really know to much about poefball
December 14th, 2009 at 12:32 pm
Doc het gesê dat ons balle sou rond gewees het as ons moes sokker speel…
December 14th, 2009 at 12:38 pm
Reply to PietPloos @ 12:32 pm:
December 14th, 2009 at 12:39 pm
I’d respond to Morne if he had anything intelligent to say, BUT HIS REMARKS ARE AS USUAL INFUSED with his own alcohol pickled opinions as evidenced by the personal attacks and his stupid thoughtless remark about Graham Henry having a “one trick game plan” with All Blacks and of course answering my argument about the Bulls since 1938by mentioning the 2009 vintage (similar to saying that all races are equal if you look at 2008 America’s election results)
But he added nothing of value…
Score
Good GuyS = 4
Simonstown Suiplap = 0
December 14th, 2009 at 12:42 pm
Reply to DavidS @ 12:39 pm:
No personal insults, it is a general observation I made some time ago already.
Reckon you just have nothing to say, which is more likely than your excuse on top.
December 14th, 2009 at 12:51 pm
Reply to DavidS @ 12:39 pm: To be honest, Henry is a klip. He showed it in the last WC with the best team in the World at that time and could not changes his game plan in the game. Then he went back to NZ and complained that they had a kak ref who did not see the forward pass.
He did nothing new with the team since 2007 WC and the AB does not look like a team that nobody can win but rather a team that everyone believe they can beat.
The AB had that presence that would tell you no way in hell we will beat them.
AB will realize their mistake on not taking on Deans as their Headmaster in 2011 WC. They will get whipped in their own back Yard.
December 14th, 2009 at 12:53 pm
Reply to Morné @ 12:42 pm:
Verskoon die ERT – hy het ‘n
kak tyd. Te veel gesuip, hele
familie vanoor die wêreld sak
op hom toe.
En dan is hy nog hardlywig ook.
December 14th, 2009 at 12:54 pm
Reply to Boertjie @ 12:53 pm: Hy moet kaap toe oom boerman en kom snoek eet sodat hy beter kan voel
December 14th, 2009 at 1:11 pm
Morne you have still not responded to the fundamentals of what I said and if you cannot, then it serves no purpose to have this discussion with you.
Having a predictable known gameplan does not of necessity mean you will lose (which is what you imply despite all ecvidence to the contrary)
But hey… if insults work to discount the truth, by all means call yourself a sheep, don a wooly cap and squeal all together
“four legs good two legs bad”
As much as you like…
December 14th, 2009 at 1:14 pm
You know if you cannot answer then I suggest instead of insulting me rather just say
Ja you’re right
And we’ll leave it there
In contrast to capetonian ways i won’t smugly hold it over your head for the next twenty years the way you capies brag about the Golden Years…. of five in a row
December 14th, 2009 at 1:32 pm
Reply to Jacques(Bunny) @ 12:54 pm:
Die nawEEk leKKer snoek geEEt
darem net dAAi grate
min vleis vir baie moeite!
December 14th, 2009 at 1:36 pm
Reply to WiLLem @ 1:32 pm:
Jy seker dit was n snoek en nie een van daai oorgroeide Loch Logan Karpe nie…?
December 14th, 2009 at 1:40 pm
Gaan van Dingaansdag af vir so n paar dae Kleinbaai toe om te kyk of daai “opspring perlemoene” nog daar is ….daarna Yzerfontein vir weskus snoek, kreef en BAIE wyn!!
December 14th, 2009 at 1:48 pm
Ja
Klink nice Piet
Ek gaan maar Australiese Kers ete maak
Sal maar sien en hoop die weer speel darem saam want vandag is dit koud en dit reen en strook deur…
Einde van dae vir die wat 2012 gekyk het…
December 14th, 2009 at 1:53 pm
Kangaroo oppie spit of “stuffed lamb”..??
December 14th, 2009 at 1:57 pm
Reply to DavidS @ 1:48 pm:
Ek gaan maar Australiese Kers ete maak
======
Kangaroo-spitbraai with convict sauce?
December 14th, 2009 at 2:03 pm
Het ook 2012 gaan kyk
Kan nie dink aan iets beters om met Kaapstad te gebeur nie
Begrawe onder kilometer hoog vloedgolf…
Kan nie gebeur met mense wat dit meer verdien nie….
December 14th, 2009 at 2:04 pm
Aussies is die enigste ander mense wat somer kersfees het…
Baie shrimps en oysters
Skaap en Vark ook
Maar met koel temas
Nie Kangaroe nonsens nie
December 14th, 2009 at 2:05 pm
Reply to PietPloos @ 1:36 pm:
hehehe
Snoek is Snoek plOOs
selfs vir ‘n vrystater-sOOs-eKKe!
December 14th, 2009 at 2:07 pm
Reply to DavidS @ 2:04 pm:
AS jy so sê!
December 14th, 2009 at 2:08 pm
Reply to WiLLem @ 2:05 pm:
Nou hoek moan jy dan…
Snoek het lekker witvleis en GROOT grate wat jy maklik kan pleis – al het jy te veel gevat!!
December 14th, 2009 at 2:10 pm
…en ek mag maar die feestyd vat – want ek het my mos mooi gedra die jaar. Amper soortvan tot minimum beperk..
December 14th, 2009 at 2:17 pm
Al vis sonder grate is tongvis.
Maar moenie van ‘n Nissan-bakkie
koop nie: Hulle het stokvis wat
hulle in ‘n tjap sit en vries dat
dit soos tongvis lyk.
Nes daai kamma ontbeende Palestinas
(varkrib).
En Porragaanse sardiens is eintik
net grate.
December 14th, 2009 at 2:17 pm
In 2008, 1 team sneak into the S14 semis. The Boks beat Wales at home. Come 3rd in the 3N. Beat Wales, Scotland and England in the NH.
In 2009, 1 team win the S14 with a record margin, The Boks beat the Lions, come 1st in the 3N and loose against France and Ireland on the end of year tour.
Yet, the conclusion is that in 2008, SA rugby progressed and in 2009 they regressed.
Figure that one out.
Perhaps it is a mindset that values playing style over winning.
December 14th, 2009 at 2:18 pm
Kay ek chuck… dit reen en ousie sukkel met drie monsters!
December 14th, 2009 at 2:18 pm
Reply to PietPloos @ 2:08 pm:
hehehe
True oor die leKKer vleis- en ja dis juis dAAi grOOt grate wat mAAk dat ek EErder ‘n stuKKie fiLLet naderslEEp!
al het ek tevEEl gesuip of te nie!
December 14th, 2009 at 2:19 pm
Reply to DavidS @ 2:18 pm:
voKKit
nou kry ons rEEn en koue wind van die verkEErde kant af- lyk sOOs Augustus Dustbowl in Bloem!
December 14th, 2009 at 2:24 pm
Reply to Boertjie @ 2:17 pm:
Oudste
Ek is ‘n Sole, Kingklip & EngelVis vrystater. Hou van Tuna Steak OOk- net hEEltemal skAArs. Het al gehOOr van Galjoen mAAr nog nOOit geproe nie.
EEt nie die moDDervis nie- want “eKKe” “hengel” by die huis!
En dAAi porsies haDDock met die kAAs sous sAAm met patas is OOk alte leKKer!
December 14th, 2009 at 2:35 pm
Dustbowl in Bloem!
=========
Dis die Suidoos wat nou by julle
uitslaan. Wees op die uitkyk vir
palmbome, sinkplate en ‘n verkeerslig.
Een jaar het hy daar by die Kaapstad-
sentrum ‘n lorrie vol Coke getip.
Trek hulle hom met hyskraan-goeters
regop, tip die wind hom net weer.
‘n Man soekiekak met so ‘n wind nie.
December 14th, 2009 at 3:03 pm
Reply to fyndraai @ 2:17 pm:
The solution for evolution. Forever end the abomination of playing ugly and winning.
Style points, awarded by a group of stylish guys from Cape Town. Re brand rugby as a reality series: “Queer eye for the rough guy.”
WP can be perennial Currie Cup champions again. Success will not be measured in trophies alone. You go girl!
December 14th, 2009 at 3:13 pm
Reply to fyndraai @ 3:03 pm:
best example of what you are saying is NZ and Aus in the WC 2007 – all talk about the expansive game and the 2 teams playing the defensive game make the final.
Perceptions IMO but still.
December 14th, 2009 at 4:08 pm
Reply to fyndraai @ 3:03 pm:
lol, fynes i think you been watching too many US sitcoms.
BTW where in the US are you?
There’s a few guys on Keo from the US, SodaJoe and CoachPete.
December 14th, 2009 at 5:51 pm
Fynes
But hey who are we question the almighty gods of rugby?
After all was rugby not invented when some boy from cape Town called danie picked up a soccer ball and ran with it at Gimmies? Or was it Paarl Boys?
Never mind I recall as a small laaitie that a friend of my father’s from the Cape used to brag about WP’s “running rugby”… he watched the 1980 CC final with us at Loftus….
NTvl = 39
WP = 9
WP contained players like Robbie Blair, Divan Serfontein, Peter Whipp, Willie Du Plessis and the like… an extremely good backline… whipped senseless… by that “kicking moron” Naas Botha… actually run to pieces is more like it…
I’ve said it before and nobody seems to understand… leastways the Simonstown Suiplap
If rugby was won on style, then France and Fiji would be in every RWC inal and you would have judges awarding points like in gymnastics, but unfortunately for those style awareders and their “hardloop rugby”… WP has not won a CC since 2001 and the most successful teams this decade and the one before were those that played the least exciting and most importantly winning rugby…
December 14th, 2009 at 6:32 pm
Reply to cab @ 4:08 pm:
No sitcoms for me. SA rugby and Ruggaworld is all the entertainment I can stand thank you.
It keeps me sane, because in the area of Atlanta where I live one see things like this all to often:
http://www.peopleofwalmart.com/?page_id=5245
It makes me so sad I want to emigrate.
December 14th, 2009 at 6:38 pm
December 14th, 2009 at 6:45 pm
Kyk no ek kan verstaan as jy ‘n Weepee is en dikbek raak oor hoe die Goue Leeus die World Cup wen…
Maar die waarheid is as die trailer jou nie hoendervleis gee nie, dan kan niks nie
December 14th, 2009 at 8:07 pm
I really think there is a problem with reading up North…
It is not about ’style’, it is not about your rugby philosophy, it is about sustaining a winning culture.
The Boks today are brilliant, but to my mind it is a ’style’ or ‘recipe’ that will not sustain ongoing success.
It is mentioned in the article.
If you look beyond your provincial bias you might actually see this. It is in fact amazing how you can turn this into a WP vs. Blue Bulls thread… But not at all surprising.
Apart from the 3N, and even some games in there we did not win convincingly, you guys reckon that we are world beaters because we have all the trophies???
What if Morne did not kick that last conversion at Loftus?
What if Carter’s kick in Hamilton actually found the hands of that lock?
Then add the EOYT and simply look at our results…
And then tell me, did this Bok team of 2009 actually progress at all?
Yes or no?
We lost more games this year than in 2008.
What we are doing at the moment we are doing fuckin well, which is why we are winning.
But my message or rather question is; ‘Can we sustain this and is what we are doing our winning recipe to ensure success in 2010 and for the WC in 2011?’
Simple yes or no…
Or I can translate this article into JHB East lingo for you to understand?
December 14th, 2009 at 8:50 pm
Morné,
the article makes for light reading
though some of your logic
is flawed.
I share that feeling of ill bode
however that might be the classic
south-african-supporter-never-hapy syndrome
from which few Bok supporters,including myself,
ever truly recover from.
We are not happy when we lose
and when we win,
we’re not happy cause we didn’t win well enough ect.
December 14th, 2009 at 8:55 pm
Reply to Duiwel @ 8:50 pm:
Sobering thoughts, but I am (if you remember) one of those okes that sticks by the side when they are playing like shit too.
I am not disappointed with 2009, I reckon we missed a few tricks.
In fact, I am rather disappointed in PDV for the promise of 2008, and what I saw in 2009.
If I was him, I will not be ecstatic about 2009.
December 14th, 2009 at 8:59 pm
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
niks nie
Morné says:
December 14th, 2009 at 8:07 pm
you guys reckon that we are world beaters because we have all the trophies???
Yes morne,when you beat the world
you are officially a world beater.NO?
December 14th, 2009 at 9:01 pm
Reply to Duiwel @ 8:59 pm:
But how do we explain losing more games than the year before?
Winning the games that matter?
perhaps – and that is great.
But if that is the case, will we be able to sustain winning the games that matter?
I dont think so – your thoughts?
December 14th, 2009 at 9:01 pm
Reply to DavidS @ 6:38 pm: Look like a Good Movie about Madiba. But as far as I could see only 7 of the team in the Final were real Lions. And this was out of 18 Players. Strange how people always wanted to say their team won the WC or that 3N, but when they kak like the Boks at the 2009 EOY tour nobody claims that the Bulls did not win against The French, Ireland and the two club teams.
Typical that the Bulls supporters only claim the Bok team when they win and not when they loose.
Like your WC team of 1995 who went on and was the first Bok team to loose a series against the AB in SA.
Os du Randt Cheetahs
Chris Rossouw Lions
Balie Swart Lions(Came From WP)
Kobus Wiese Lions
Hannes Strydom Lions
Francois Pienaar Lions
Ruben Kruger Blue Bulls
Mark Andrews Sharks
Joost van der Westhuizen Blue Bulls
Joel Stransky WP
Chester Williams WP
Hennie le Roux Lions(Came From EP)
Japie Mulder Lions
James Small Sharks(Came From Lions)
André Joubert Sharks
Reserve Garry Pagel WP
Reserve Rudolph Straeuli Lions
Reserve Brendan Venter Cheetahs
December 14th, 2009 at 9:02 pm
I am off for now though, feeding time.
December 14th, 2009 at 9:03 pm
You’re right,
i feel he has not developed or planned enough.
But his results are good for a top5 coach
so time will tell.
I think personally he is a pretentious poepol
and a fake and its the senior players
dictating
but time will tell.
look how easily nicks baabaas dick the
AB puppie side.
Now there is a coach.
maybe he’ll pick up a tan on the italian riviera
and be the right colour for the bok job.
December 14th, 2009 at 9:06 pm
Morné,
i think the other teams wised-up after 2008
and indeed
we didn’t bring anything or anyone new.
When you make a yard ahead
the pace increases
but to keep a yard ahead
that takes planning.
this is not Poepolpiet strongsuit.
December 14th, 2009 at 9:16 pm
Reply to Morné @ 8:07 pm:
) it against 2008. No matter how one wants to look at it 2008 was a disaster and 2009 was a success.
My objection is not with what you say about 2009, it is how you juxtapose (that word again
Your statistics is skewed by the quality of the opponents in both June and November of the 2 years. There are also meaningless matches in most series. In 2009 the Boks lost the meaningless ones but won them in 2008.
Predicting a bleak future is easy.
-Only one way to go when you are on top.
-The coach’s abilities is still questionable.
-The (winning) game plan of 2009 is not the coach’s preference.
-The game winner of 2009 is not the coach’s preference either.
-If the senior players are really in control disaster is a certainty.
December 14th, 2009 at 9:20 pm
Come to think of it, remove Morne Steyn and 2009 would have been a disaster too.
Pretty bad form of Peter de Villiers to publicly state his preference for Pienaar after that.
December 14th, 2009 at 9:32 pm
Reply to Morné @ 9:01 pm:
“Games”, yes. Tests, no.
2008: 9 wins out of 13. Tests against Wales(3), Italy, Argentina, Scotland and England plus 3N.
2009: 8 wins out of 12. Tests against Lions(3), France, Italy , Ireland and 3N.
4 losses each year. Clearly the quality of the opponents differ considerably.
http://www.scrum.com/statsguru/rugby/team/5.html?class=1;spanmax1=14+Dec+2009;spanmin1=14+Dec+2007;spanval1=span;template=results;type=team;view=results
December 14th, 2009 at 9:51 pm
To objectively compare the strength of schedules for 2008 and 2009 one can calculate the average IRB rankings for the opponents at the time the Boks played against them.
Rankings used:
Fra: 5
Ire: 4
Itl: 12
Wal: 8
NZ: 1 (2)
Aus: 3
Arg: 4
Eng: 6
Sco: 9
B&I Lions: 4 (to be conservative)
The total for 2008 is 67 over 13 games or 5.154 average.
For 2009 it is 47 over 12 games or a 3.917 average.
December 14th, 2009 at 10:02 pm
17 in a row.
Mallett/Teichmann.
Last time the team
continuously played
like champions.
December 14th, 2009 at 11:45 pm
Reply to Boertjie @ 10:02 pm:
Mallett only got 16 in a row – first win was under du Plessies.
Just to be pedantic
December 14th, 2009 at 11:56 pm
Thats good stats fyndraai,
JT its only ever been done by the AB
in the fiftkies,’53 i think
December 15th, 2009 at 3:05 am
Here’s a lesson from 2008:
Cape Town, 16 Aug 2008, http://www.scrum.com/statsguru/rugby/match/25710.html
Score: SA:0, NZ:19
Kicks from hand: SA: 28, NZ: 45
Run meters: SA:502, NZ:315
Durban, 23 Aug, 2008
http://www.scrum.com/statsguru/rugby/match/25711.html
Score: SA:15, Aus:27
Kicks from hand: SA:27, Aus:44
Run meters: 469, Aus: 245
Johannesburg, 30 Aug, 2008
http://www.scrum.com/statsguru/rugby/match/25712.html
Score: SA: 53, Aus:8
Kicks from hand: SA:49, Aus:39
Run meters: SA:522, Aus:318
Notice the difference?
In matches 1 and 2: Pointless running by SA
Match 3: Running became effective due to the increased amount of kicks. A dimension was added to the game-plan.
December 15th, 2009 at 10:36 am
The Simonstown Suiplap will never accept such flawless logic even though he prfesses himself a lover of statistics and what they “prove” Fyndraai…
I see yet again he is trying to “interpret” what I said without actually answering or making a dent in the initial postulations I made about the game plan aside from the “klakkelose” we’ll be found out and it is not sustainable arguments …. argumenst which are not at all borne out by facts…. a fact in and of itself the adled brain of the Simonstown Suiplap is unable to distinguish…
Bunny
Incorrect
You left out Pieter Hendriks and James Dalton who were both Lions at the time of the RWC
Also saying players were from certain provinces originally makes no sense as they learned and plied their trade in Johannesburg under Oom Kitch…
No argument from you can change that.
If you want to use that argument then by all rights
Ruben Kruger was origibnally from the Free State
Joel Stransky was originally from Northern Transvaal
Chester Williams from Boland
Rudolph Straueli from Northern Transvaal
Andre Joubert at the time was originally from the Free State
All relative but hey
It’s okay by me that we had more than half the World Cup winners from the Lions and of those a large number from RAU where I was studying at the time…
Right out of the hands of Pa Pelser and Oom Kitch (you forgot the coach… who despite using provincial bias to select his team.. (although of course Transvaal had won the CC in 1993 and 1994 and the inaugural Super Ten in 1994 so no blame there) welded a force of unity and lead them to a win in the World Cup in 1995.
December 15th, 2009 at 10:51 am
“Success is not measured in trophies alone”
Nope it ain’t for this mug-punter… all I want to see from an RSA team is 22man 85min rugga… ag please daddie!
December 15th, 2009 at 10:54 am
Reply to DavidS @ 10:36 am: “You left out Pieter Hendriks and James Dalton who were both Lions at the time of the RWC”
They choose to fight and not play rugby, James was wrongly accused.
And it does not matter if half the team is from Soweto, the team is a bok team and not a Lions, Bulls, Sharks or WP team. If the full 22 man team came from one province you can claim these absurd so called facts.
Talked about Kitch, your so called beloved union through him away and he went to the Bulls who also kick him when he was down and out. Low blow from both the Unions up north.
Sies man
December 15th, 2009 at 11:04 am
:db: tyd vir klein saterdag wat vroeg begin die week
December 15th, 2009 at 11:48 am
Reply to Jacques(Bunny) @ 10:54 am:
Duh fool
Kitch Christie retired from rugby coaching as unbeaten Bok coach because he had fricking terminal cancer….
Not because anyone fired him…
December 15th, 2009 at 11:48 am
Reply to DavidS @ 10:36 am:
ja it was quite an overwhelming prescence, 16 of the sqaud of 24 were from TVL i believe.
Except 1 good sqaud per century is pretty kak going i must say.
December 15th, 2009 at 12:11 pm
All I know is if that film is right that the ‘experts’ predicted the boks to exit in the 1/4 finals then they were bladdy stupid experts, especially at home.
I mean TVL had just won the S10 a couple of years before with Kitch and the squad was overflowing with talent. Actually his record with that team was nothing short of phenomenal, 15 tests without a single loss, thats just 2 less than the great record-setting side under Mallet of 17 wins (16 under mallett).
December 15th, 2009 at 12:24 pm
Reply to DavidS @ 10:36 am:
No you trap.
Not only did I answer your very first post I did so point for point because I know I am dealing with East Rand logic to start off with, and one who has trouble reading and now seemingly with simple mathematics as well?
I did not respond to Fyndraai because if you simply look at the games played, v. those lost, percentage-wise you will see a decline…
In the one year we played more tests, hence won more…
We did not lose more in 2009, but we won more in 2008.
Example:
If you only play two tests, lose one, you only lost one test but you have a meager 50% record…
Ag why do I bother.
After Willem even shot your pathetic attempt to bring poefball into the argument you still cannot answer to my very first post, not because of insults (that was actually reserved for you alone when you responded to my article in your first post), but simply because you do not have an answer.
But not to worry, I grew up with some people from the East Rand in my younger years – I understand your line of thinking, or even lack of it.
December 15th, 2009 at 1:35 pm
Reply to Morné @ 12:24 pm:
Morne you still have not answered me.
In fact as seen on the other thread or alcohol sozzled mind has confirmed what I claim here as correct.
Mere knowledge of the game plan does not render it beatable per se
Finish… klaar… thanks for playing and enjoy the trip home…
Willem never shot anything about soccer from under me… In fact he confirmed what I said too.
And your dronkgat logic here is astounding…
In it’s illogic…
December 15th, 2009 at 1:42 pm
Reply to DavidS @ 1:35 pm:
Go read the other thread an my response jou stupid parra.
December 15th, 2009 at 2:21 pm
Book Dawie can write:
LIONS RUGBY – THE GOLDEN YEARS
and how they went for a ball of shit
—-
The Louis Luyt years and beyond
December 15th, 2009 at 6:31 pm
He he he,
luvly,
Oom Dawie and Morné, handbags at ten paces.