OZmob declares S14 war on bore
Posted by Boertjie - 28/01/10 at 04:01 pm under Other Unions / Teams, Super 14A crisis meeting of the Australian Rugby Union and its Super 14 franchises has resulted in a universal commitment to deliver an expansive, ball-in-hand style of play to the code’s long-suffering audiences this season.
RugbyHeaven
John O’Neill, the ARU chief executive, admitted Australian rugby hit ”rock bottom” during a torpid 2009 campaign in which none of the nation’s four Super 14 franchises reached the tournament’s semi-finals.
That prompted the ARU to call a meeting with delegates from NSW, Queensland, the ACT and Western Australi, whereupon the tactical and philosophical switch was agreed. New Zealand officials have issued a similar edict to their Super 14 franchises, sowing the seeds for a revolution in southern hemisphere rugby.
“Within Australia, we’re all on the same page,” O’Neill said at the unveiling of the Wallabies’ new strip yesterday. ”Reds, Waratahs, Brumbies, Force … we’ve all sat around the table and looked at the reality of where crowd figures have gone and where the game generally is at. I think we’ve hit the bottom and every one of the four teams is determined to deliver winning and entertaining rugby.
“It’s one thing to talk about the Wallabies but the foundations, the bread and butter, the shopfront of Australian rugby, is Super rugby teams. We’ve got four teams and our foundations in terms of crowds, TV ratings, will be driven by successful rugby performances.”
Steve Tew, the chief executive of the New Zealand Rugby union, confirmed he had held similar discussions with his nation’s Super 14 franchises. He was hopeful the initiative of the southern hemisphere nations would be adopted by those north of the equator, resulting in more appealing worldwide product.
”We expressed some concerns last year over some areas of the game that needed attention,” Tew told the Herald. ”The northern hemisphere was initially cautious, but it would seem the penny has dropped. It has been a little frustrating that it has taken so long. There have been two main areas that fan feedback and our own evaluation process have highlighted, and that’s scrum time and the breakdown. We are hoping to simplify those facets of the game to make conditions more conducive to good footy.”
OUT OF DOLDRUMS
O’Neill was optimistic the reversion to running rugby would lead Australia out of the doldrums at international and domestic level, and continue the mini-revival started on Australia’s autumn tour of the northern hemisphere.
Standing alongside Wallabies vice-captain Berrick Barnes and prop Benn Robinson in Sydney yesterday, the ARU boss acknowledged the waning interest in rugby before declaring the code was on the brink of another golden age.
“You can’t win all the time but equally you don’t want to be in the trough for too long,” he said. ”I think we’re coming out of the trough and 2010 will be a year where we’ve turned the corner. We have all the blokes coming through who have the makings of creating another golden era.”
The comments of O’Neill and Tew follow a meeting of SANZAR where it was agreed positive tactics were urgently required to draw fans back to the game. “SANZAR has universally said that Super rugby this year is going to reward the attacking team,” O’Neill pledged.
Barnes, who said he was fit to play in the trial match against Fiji this weekend, said the players welcomed the challenge.
Comment from rugbynut, Johannesburg:
New Zealand and Australia will have to convince South Africa to do the same although the conservative SA teams might struggle to play a more expansive game
January 28th, 2010 at 4:15 pm
Well, they will get plenty
of balls to run with when
they play the kick-and-charge
Saffa sides.
This is going to be
very interesting.
January 28th, 2010 at 4:36 pm
Oom D,
Jou pakkie is gestuur,geregestreerd,sodat bobbejane nie die pos kan beroof nie.
pakkie nommer:RK641529292FR
http://www.laposte.fr om dit te volg
groete
duiwel
January 28th, 2010 at 8:24 pm
The way to get the crowds back is…
Wait for it
Ummm
No…. not exciting rugby
JUST WIN
That is it and all Yellow Jumpered kangarooooos
Just win
Ask John Eales and Nick Farr-Jones…
Winners attract the crowds
Hence
Ellis Park empty
Loftus full
January 28th, 2010 at 9:29 pm
Fuck I dont know what to think about this. One part of me admire the ozzies for being open about this – reaching consensus
January 28th, 2010 at 9:31 pm
Funny if we were ever to sit around a table and decide to all play a running game we would likely dominate world rugby for many years to come.
We underrate ourselves and I blame the guilt associated with apartheid
January 28th, 2010 at 9:35 pm
And seeing as morne is lurking, this is my biggest ever grope with Jean Divs. He is in SA terms a very talented creative 12 but he is my arse.
If Habana played for Oz or Ireland he would have scored 100 tries by now.
Our schools teams and varsity cup teams are almost french in their creativity. We have the genes and the blueprint to play the perfect game, with a focus on attack!
January 28th, 2010 at 9:51 pm
Waar is daardie lui uberdom slot methos deesdae?
January 28th, 2010 at 9:53 pm
and why is Shimlas playing Ikeys in PE on Monday?
January 28th, 2010 at 9:59 pm
“If Habana played for Oz or Ireland he would have scored 100 tries by now.”
My son played last year in the O/9 side for his school and I could not understand why they were teaching the number 10’s to kick the ball if the center is not in place does not matter where they are on the field.
They won as a team all the trophy’s what they could with a solid boot at 10 and big and fast forwards.
That’s what they teach in PTA for O/9’s
January 28th, 2010 at 10:05 pm
Fair enough Bunny but body shapes are all screwed at that age.
I will give WP this: they always TRIED to play an open running game but unfortunalty they do it with pissies.
The reds on the other hand have the backline to run everyone ragged yet they have no pack.
The boks have no excuse. You can pick a very talented team from this lan that will run and tackle an bully every team in the world to smithereens, yet we play it safe?
Why?
Why not have Steyn and Steyn and yet still play an attacking game?
I know why. Because we have stopped selecting 12’s and 13 who firstly want to murder people on defence and secondly who can DISTRIBUTE ball. Instead we opt for a clean shaven guy with a cool hairstyle who can make a good linebreak.
January 28th, 2010 at 10:10 pm
My perfect 12 goes to bed at night dreaming about making 30 tackles the next day and passing the ball every time he gets it, perfectly into the outstreched hands of his 13 in space.
January 28th, 2010 at 10:12 pm
As you mentioned it, I think you right we do not have the proper 12’s and 13’s anymore.
But with Bulls rugby style dominating SA rugby and the world today, can not see how they will change that.
In the 80’s we had moerse fowards and backs and a 10 that dominate with drops and kicks to goal in Naas. But we had 12’s and 13’s as well with guys like Ray and Carel at wings
January 28th, 2010 at 10:14 pm
The bok 12’s seems to dream about that one line break in a game knowing that the average Bok fan will say he had a good game because of that.
To see jean allmighty miss his first 6 tackles against Northampton the other day makes my blood boil.
He cannot tackle and he cannot pass yet he is our master 12?
January 28th, 2010 at 10:19 pm
Well Bunny we have habana and JP at wings who are both lethal not to mention mapoe.
But we have 12’s who dont even run straight anymore and 13’s who are glorified fetchers at breakdowns.
Its started with the Halstead Mac bash it up 12 which soon faded but now we in the Jean is King cult.
Those tries scored by the small Philip Burger against the Bulls in 2 games in 2006 were what its all about. Quick ball through the hands with one inside pass on the weak link (Frikkie Welsh at the time) and bam 2 tries.
10 ran straight and passed tot he hands to 12 who ran straigh to 13 who drifted but instead 14 took the ball inside Frikkie.
Eddie Jones Bok Rugby. A thing of beauty.
January 28th, 2010 at 10:23 pm
OK I will leave Morne to maak `n handjie on that one try between jean at 12 and Furie at 13 against Oz at Ellis Parl which started the Jean cult.
Yet eveen that try came about from linebreak by jean before he offloaded to Fourie.
BUT A 12 IS NOT SUPPOSED TO BREAK THE BLOODY LINE, YET SINCE THAT DAY JEAN TREID TO REPLICATE THAT MOVE WITH EVERY BALL HE RECEIVED.
….sadly starving the best wing in Bok history of ball
January 28th, 2010 at 10:27 pm
I hear you but don’t you think that is the way the game is played now, not just by us but by everyone even the AB
January 28th, 2010 at 10:42 pm
yeah maybe. Yet the article states the Oz resolve to move away from this. We tried with Carel and later with Harry and perhaps should have held on?
But the fans….
January 28th, 2010 at 11:00 pm
Reply to newbokshields @ 10:42 pm: That’s our problem, we want to win
January 29th, 2010 at 1:51 am
Reply to Jacques(Bunny) @ 11:00 pm:
How’s that problem? Is the am not to win?
January 29th, 2010 at 1:51 am
aim
January 29th, 2010 at 2:31 am
The best thing that the ARU can do is to introduce a competition like the CC. It will however be crucial for them to schedule the games that they do not clash with the RL fixtures, ie playon Wednesday nights.
The people are sports crazy enough to support it. Ticket pricing will have to be resonable, not like the warmup game tonight at Ballymore. Make it $30 per family of 4 or something like that.
Shieldsie, on the 12 & 13 story, I agree with your dream. Rugby is now suffering from a combination of the kicking game and the stampkar centres that NZ used in the early 90’s. It is not just the Bulls kicking game.
I don;t know if the law in junior rugby in SA is still the same as the days that we played in that you cannot kick outside your 22 playing U11 or younger. In Aus and NZ it is not.
The game traditionally was about running the ball otherwise we might as well just go back to putting the ball down and using a round one.
Kicking is a part of strategy, but not to just force a mistake from the other team. That is negative, gutless rugby by players that do not have the confidence to play the game.
January 29th, 2010 at 6:37 am
We have all used that a kick is only as good as the chase, but I would like to add that a kick needs to give you atleast a 50/50 chance of reclaiming the ball WITHOUT bargaining on the other team making a mistake. In short it needs to be into space and well weighted.
Now for me kids will not have a clue how to identify the space for a kick, they first need to identify the space where to run. Face it that running into space ensures you keeping possession. So which would you rather have? Kick with 50 % chance of regaining possession and the risk that the chase was not good offering the opposition to counter or 100% chance of possession with the opposition scrambling?
If kids get taught the ability to identify space, they will make much better and COMPLETE rugby players.
January 29th, 2010 at 7:32 am
Reply to Deon @ 2:31 am:
“The best thing that the ARU can do is to introduce a competition like the CC.”
With the new S15 format… the first home rounds against the national teams before touring will be used as the ‘national’ comp… and at no extra cost…
Two birds with one stone… RSA should be doing the same…
January 29th, 2010 at 9:16 am
I STILL think that what the Aussies need is …
TO WIN
Whether the play is torpid and myopic or not
If the scoreboard reads
Aus 23
Nz / SA 18
at the end of the game then that is what the fans came to watch
If the 3N log reads
Aus
SA
NZ
at the end of the tournament the ugly rugby will not matter
If the S14 log at the end of the regular season and before play offs reads
Brumbies
Waratahs
Reds
Force
________________
Bulls
Crusaders
Blues
Highlanders
whatever whatever
Then the fans will come and watch.
As I said before
Ellis Park
vs
Loftus
Nobody none of you can argue that the Lions of the past few years desperately tried to play an attractive brand of rugby but lost.
The Bulls… well they just stuck to thetired and tested
Which stadium is full?
The one where the fans watch losers play pretty rugby or the one where the team wins…?
Rhetorical
Winners get supported
Losers get dumped
One of my rugby maxims has always been
If rugb was a question of attractiveness then we’d have had four judges alongside the field to award style points and France and Fiji would contest every world cup final…
But rugby is a game where big men try to beat each other by pommeling their opponents senseless… and scoring points in the process to win… not about lookig pretty.
In that sense I agree with the hated Stephen Jones
I’d rather watch a muddy English slugfest that ends 9-6 than an Australian sparkiling mineral water ballet dancing event that ends 44-42
January 29th, 2010 at 9:24 am
Maybe that is why I supported WP and in a sense the Cheetahs from the beginning, I like running rugby but in test arena a win is a win even if it is with half a point.
January 29th, 2010 at 9:24 am
…why I started they playing kak now
January 29th, 2010 at 9:54 am
I still think its a mindset. Mallets boks in 1998 wanted to win and play an attacking game at the same time.
Ireland at the moment wins games by playing a very wide game. How many bok backline moves end with the wing running out of space?
My mouth bleeds from the amount of times I have said this, but our 12 and 13 need to be able to run at speed from deep, run straight and pass to the hands. This way you leave loads of space outside.
Have you guys also seen that on counter attack how all our players then suddenly straighten the line and pass with timing to create space?
Now why the feck can we not do this from a set piece?
January 29th, 2010 at 10:23 am
Sheilds
Set pieces require a degree of unpredicatability in order to create space.
You cannot just flick the ball from player in line to player in line… then you will just have a nine pin effect.
The players making the plays need to do something unexpected
I suggest that if you look at the Boks when on the attack in set piece mode last year inside opponent 22 they did produce unpredictable plays which resulted in Jacque Fourie, JP Pietersen, Bryan Habana and Jean De Villiers often makeing linebreaks and actually scoring tries.
What you are suggesting relies on the old structure vs form style of play…
We coach and play a very stylized and structured game at the moment… the most successful teams in CC are Sharks and Bulls and both teams produce a very structured game… even the latter day Cheetahs built their CC success on their structured play..
In a structured playing environment you plan to surprise your opponent by doing what they do not expect Thus when executed well, like with Bryan Habana a few times last year, you will get a surprised opponent and a well drilled and oiled play come off to look like players who were playing on instinct…
January 29th, 2010 at 10:36 am
The result is that a great move looks instinctive but it’s not.
Recall all teh tries Pieter Rossouw scored for the Malett Boks..
ESPECIALLY those coming off the shoulder of Lem
ALL THOSE WERE PLANNED moves that were well executed…
Oh I can recall a few that were not, but that Bok team played with lots of structure to their game plan.
But with some leeway obviously provided to certain players…
Recal how James Small was dropped for no reason … but we all knew it was because James would not “buy in” on the structured game plan whereas James was a “freewheeling” type.
I’m sorry I don’t buy into what you say Sheildsie… maybe at high school level and then not in the open teams… but at Super 14 and international level…
Not a chance
Ireland must play the style they play because they have weaknesses in the weight of their pack… thus they developed a plan that SUITS THEIR WEAKNESSES AND CONCENTRATES ON THEIR STRENGTHS… WHICH IS WHY THEY ALWAYS PLAY AWAY FROM THE CONTACT AS SOON AS PSSIBLE.
January 29th, 2010 at 10:37 am
Dawie I understand that. The most structured team in history (larkham era ozzies) produced some of the best backline plays ever.
Unpredictability is key. Thats understood. But the basic principle still stands: someone has to straighten the line otherwise you run out of space.
On the outside of 13 is the key area of attack. Either the defending wing stands wide to push play inside or he lines up across his opposing player.
If he hangs wide the gap will be 15 coming in on the overlap. If he lines up his opposite player he creates space on his outside for the attacking player to exploit.
The Boks however, and many of our teams, kill off both the above opportunities because our 12 wants to cretae play by running angles. Doing this 2 or 3 times in a game is great, but in my opinion we should move the ball to that crucial area most of the time because that where the magic happens.
The 10 must also at times take the ball flat but most of the time should simple shift the ball asap seeing as ‘the ball is always faster than the player’.
January 29th, 2010 at 10:46 am
Dawie we agree but you think we dont.
I am all for structure. Structure works because discipline and the basics is built in, and this allows for creativity to flourish.
Eddie coaching with White only worked because our players were so stuctured. To implement great attacking moves then becomes easy.
I think it also has something to do with the selfishness of the modern player. A good 12 is not expected to score tries. He has to create them. Even a 13 is not expected to do so. Everything they do must be greared towards creating space for the quickies to exploit.
So why do our 12’s bash all day tryingt o break the line?
Screw the linebreak. Give me the overlap.
And no, its not difficult with todays defensive patterns.
Our backline players simply cannot run straight at speed and pass the ball to each others hands. And so the ball slows down and our ‘whiplash’ effect that creates an overlap goes stale.
January 29th, 2010 at 10:58 am
Reply to newbokshields @ 10:46 am: That’s why allot of tries last year for the Boks was scored from set pieces.
January 29th, 2010 at 11:14 am
Reply to newbokshields @ 10:46 am: No we do disagree shields because you expect the 12 to do things like run straight, break a tackle, offload to a 13 in space and that kind of thing.
In a modern rugby environment that is simply not something that can happen with every play.
Sometimes you want to set up a drop so you give the ball to the 12 who then runs diagonally so he can get tackled middle of the filed so that he sets up a cotact in front of the poles for the 10 to drop.
Sometimes like Australia and Giteau often do, your ten or twelve will INTENTIONALLY run diagonally to set up a drift defence from the opposition in order to wrongfoot them with a runner coming at pace off an angle different to the one the drift is taking…
Perhaps the coach believes the opposition weak at the breakdown so he intentionally has his 12 crashball it into defenders (I recall in the late 1980’s and early 1990’s the Lions used this to great effect with Dries Maritz and Hempas Rademeyer)
Our backline players CAN MOST CERTAINLY run straight… but they can also angle their run and change direction depending on what the situation warants.
I can tell you from my playing days as a seven flanker there was nothing I relished more than a centre flyhalf who ran straight* because I’d just bodyslam him every time.
Sometimes that drift across the field is because the coach wants the player to avoid contact at all costs with certain opposition players… or they want him to take out certain opposition players… like the way Jake White’s 2007 Boks would have loosies intentionally run straight at Rodney Soi’alo and Richie McCaw..
Or as I recal Aaron Mauger once doing running diagonally across a field to force Joe Rokocoko to tackle him because just Joe was far outside facing Richie McCaw… Joe tackled Aaron and McCaw scores… Mauger ran diagonally to create an overlap… If he ran straight inside forwards would have been able to stop him…
I know Aussie cometators like to whinge about it
But the truth is you cannot judge a player by the angle he runs because the angle is an important aspect of the way the game is played these days.
*okay I lie… I enjoyed crash tacking little windgat scrumhalves trying to take a blinside break more
January 29th, 2010 at 11:18 am
January 29th, 2010 at 11:14 am
Reply to newbokshields @ 10:46 am: No we do disagree shields because you expect the 12 to do things like run straight, break a tackle, offload to a 13 in space and that kind of thing.
No Dawie. I expect the 12 to run straight and pass. No breaking lines and offloading in tackles. Thats bullocks. Run straight, pass to the hands of 13 and help create space outside.
January 29th, 2010 at 11:19 am
Also Dawie how do you explain our teams running out of space whereas in the old days we used to see far more wings recieve the ball from deep at pace, with some space to play with?
January 29th, 2010 at 11:25 am
Please tape say 10 games this year and just look at the passing (forget the running) of our backline players be it form a set piece or break away ball:
10’s pass to 12 is above the head ; 12’s pass to 13 is behind him ; 13’s pass to 14 is on his feet etc.
This is my main gripe.
For space to be created outside a simple principle applies: ‘the ball must move faster than the defending team players.’
For this ball to move faster it needs to be distributed with precision from hand to hand at speed.
In a game today we might see 1 such move, usually leading to the type of tries we all love.
But why not more often? Has the standards of backline play dropped? Do teams spend enough time perfecting this basic skill? I think not.
How many clips from old Bok games do we see the ball gracefully move from 10 to 14 resulting in the wing able to take on his man at speed out wide?
January 29th, 2010 at 11:44 am
Reply to newbokshields @ 10:46 am: Linebreak needs a broken tackle
That is a variable
You cannot as a rugby coach plan for a variable on a move
As in Jean will run onto Richie McCaw and break his tackle or swerve fast enough so there is no tackle…
Can’t do that.
January 29th, 2010 at 11:53 am
Reply to newbokshields @ 11:19 am: Not my experience at all…
I remember that even far back in CC days in the 80’s there were gripes about wings not getting ball. Even Doc Craven in the 80’s suggessted some radical changes to get people like Fox and Botha out of play influence becasue their kickig made the game boring…
It’s an age old problem.
Wings got ball in sopace more by luck than anything else. You would certainly not see it happen in every game. More usually they ran out of space… carel Du Plessis and Ray Mordt tries did not by rote happen in every single game simply because opposition players knew they had to close those guys down before the ball got to them or leave them no space when it did… like with Jonah Lomu.
And as I said, the 12 runs the angle needed to “outfox” the opposition… running straight into a tackle might be a plan but then again running diagonally might also be a plan because you need to stretch gaps in the defence..
Reply to newbokshields @ 11:25 am:
You’re generalizing shieldsie…
You won’t see it more often simply because it doesn’t work every time.
If you are playing off a set piece inside oppo 22 a move which needs many passes is going to mean your opponents have more time to make a deep defensive line, so your best bet is to punch with as few passes as possible through the gaps that are crated when you ask seven guys to defend a piece of grass fifty metres wide… whilst the otrher eight are all in a scrum or lineout…
And as i said… straight… ja well depends on what yor game plan is..
January 29th, 2010 at 12:04 pm
Dis sommer kak die….
Hulle wil he ons moet nou soos Bafana Bafana begin sokker speel – hulle wen nie games nie – maar almal lyk goed met die bal….
WEN WERK SO!!
Die ou met die meeste punte aan die einde van die wedstryd WEN…Nie die ou wat die greatse en meenste met die bal gehol het nie…
Of het die Ausies besef – hulle kan nie meer wen nie – en wil nou eerder goed lyk.??
January 29th, 2010 at 12:11 pm
Reply to PietPloos @ 12:04 pm: Uitstekend gestel Piet
Daai Aussie trick het in 1991 gewerk teen Engeland
NOOIT WEER NIE
January 29th, 2010 at 12:24 pm
A line break does NOT need a broken tackle. It needs a player with the vision to change his line of running at the last moment and a good distributor who CAN PASS on his inside.
A backline can create space by thinking. This whole pre-occupation with size is exactly why our backs think they should be running over opposition instead of beating them.
The principle was always simple no matter what defensive system in place by the opposition. If the players run straight, they keep the opposition guessing as the ball carrier can go either way. Therefore the covering loosies needed to hang back and check their inside the whole time.
The moment a back, especially 10 and 12 starts running across the field, the loosies can just follow the ball. it doesn’t matter if you have a player cutting in on an angle as it is easy to cover.
That is how space was created in the old days. Plain and simple. Go and watch those old games again.
January 29th, 2010 at 12:27 pm
Reply to bryce_in_oz @ 7:32 am:
They still need a lower end comp to feed into the S15.
Be honest does any one of the Aussie teams really have any depth at Super level?
January 29th, 2010 at 12:39 pm
Reply to Deon @ 12:24 pm: Wrong and right
First a linebreak does not need a broken tackle but in your scenario it relies on a player beating a defender … and that is avariable as I pointed out. You cannot rely on an attacking player beating a defender (broken tackle, sidestep whatever) because it is varied… as an example some used to say attack Meyer Bosman’s right hand because he is a weak tackler there…. but that does not always work because at some point the opposition player will tackle you because on each occasion you are TRYING to beat the defender…
The broken tackle theory was just an example not an absolute… beating the defender no matter how you do it is a variable. A backline creates variables and thus uncertainty when it THINKS because it is not a single organism… the idea of structure and thus the genius that apparently comes about afterwards is precisely because in a structured and planend move the backline does act like a single brained organism, whereas in your theory of straight running and thinking it is a number of individuals thiking and acting according to the norm of what they think would work to beat their defender… thus causing the backline to appear hesitant, pass [poorly and get wrapped up by defenders.
And you are wrong about loosies and the angle… not all players drift with the attack at the same time… thus yoru faster loose forwards like teh openside flank will probably be closest to the drift your “fatties” like the hookers and props will be farthest away from it and thus able to act as a second line defence for the cut back, which is why you can only use the cutback successfully if it is off a first or second receiver before the opposition can use all fifteen players in defence. Running diagonally can also cut the eight forwards out because you are essentially running away from the place where the most players are to a space where there are less defenders.
If you wait for too long before doing a cut back on the angle there is a greater chance your angle runner gets cut down precisely because a second line defence is coming across and because of its slower speed it can cover a cut back runner.
Sorry
I think you are wrong.
Running straight makes the player predictable…
One of your favorite players is Matt Giteau and nobody can deny he is a good 10/12 backline player…
Watch how often he uns angles and diagonally in particular… the same for Johnny Wilkinson…
Straight running is not a bad thing, but if you use it over and over it is predictable and the player can be stopped or you can plan for it.
By the same token diagonal running has it place in rugby as an offensive weapon.
I think you and shields believe straight running is the beall and endall of attacking running rugby and I’m saying you are wrong.
PLanning and acting* unpredictably is the key to successful attacking rugby
*This does not mean you ARE not planning it means that the move you do is one the opposition has not expected and thus the defence is outmaneuvred by careful pre-planning and this can be done by running straight or by running diagonally… it depends on what you need.
My only proviso is in attacking rugby KISS principle.
Less passes create agreater chance for errors at high speed running.
January 29th, 2010 at 12:41 pm
ps. And if you look at the olden days games the way you say they created space is NOT always how they created space..
Oh if you look at grainy old shots of a try it looks like that was how it was created because you see passes flighting down the line to the wing with the open tryline and space and a defender haring a sprint…
But you never see what gave rise to that move… and that is where the key lays…
How did it end up that there was space…
January 29th, 2010 at 12:46 pm
smacks of small-minded sour grapes this from our sanzar partners, they start moaning when we start winning – bollocks they introduced the new laws – now play to them and shut it.
January 29th, 2010 at 12:46 pm
One of the famous tricks was an Uli Schmidt move as the game waxed and waned across the field he would invariably end up being the last to rise from a ruck on the left side of the field only to end up seeing the ball drift down the line to his side and there and then create an overlap…
Not because of strong straight running…
January 29th, 2010 at 12:47 pm
The moves that the Wallabies do with Giteau running across IMO are their downfall. Very simple to defend. His opposite follow him and the others stay on their man. He either has to pass or try to starighten. No option of left, right or straight.
If he passes the receiver is covered. The only reason he will get to make a break is poor defensive communication. If he doesn’t pass and the defensive stick to what they should do, he will be either tackled or run into touch on the other side.
Don’t be fooled by his antics.
January 29th, 2010 at 12:47 pm
Reply to cab @ 12:46 pm:
Yup
Invention of NZRU and ARU represented by Paddy NO Brain and now it suddenly does not suit them anymore..
January 29th, 2010 at 12:48 pm
Reply to Deon @ 6:37 am:
Not necessarily in top class rugby must it be a 50/50 chance of getting the ball back from the kick.
1. It can be for territory, i.e. keep the opposition out of your half, giving them possession is not major factor, because the follow up pressure on defence must force them to make a mistake, penatly or scrum.
2. To gain possession by getting the ball kicked back to you, which often results in a number of opposition being offside meaning you have more options on the counter attack.
Problem with 2 is the it can and often does end up as ping pong because none of the fielding players see the attack opportunity.
In general, running lines and feeding the ball to the outside off of a set piece expecting the line break to be done is also not an expectation. The defence systems nowadays are just too solid for that. Actual try scoring chances in these cases are the exception, not the rule. It’s in the multiple phases that these become more important. th trick is to set up the phases successfully resulting in a disjointed, unbalanced defensive line.
January 29th, 2010 at 12:50 pm
Reply to Deon @ 12:47 pm: It works because he is playing a planned move using the Aussie “attack pods” backline play…
I was just using him as an example of where a team uses diagonal running on attack
Not for any other reason than to attack… as a variation… and I have seen it work devestatingly well and fail, because not every attack is going to work exactly as planned… that is why we have games…
January 29th, 2010 at 12:54 pm
Reply to Ollie @ 12:48 pm:
OK my question, are Saffa teams really testing the other teams by setting up these phases? They try once or ttwice and then the balled is kicked, whether the kick is necessary or not.
I think the Saffa players have lost their confidence and/or ability to really test the opposition. I also believe that if that can be changed, we would not have to wonder about 2011. They might just leave the WWE trophy in CT.
January 29th, 2010 at 1:00 pm
OLLIE/JT/CAB
I know you guys are not on
Mud Island, but how do you
get tickets for the Boks in
the UK?
Saffa moaning – his golf society
25 strong have given up.
Supporters Club in SA and UK
seems dysfunctional he says.
WELSHBOK? Have you disappeared?
January 29th, 2010 at 1:02 pm
Reply to Ollie @ 12:48 pm: BRILLIANT AND SUPER TRUE
In a flowing situation you set up phase after phase after phase and you create variants.. close drives, min maul, trick mini maul, wide out, deep pass, flat pass , crash runner.. all to keep changing the attack so that you bedraggle the defence
The other option is off set piece but set peice play attack only works IF YOU DO IT FAST which means you do something unexpected quickly like the Morne Steyn or Forurie Du Preez inside flick that gave Jacque Fourie and Bryan Habana and JP PIetersen so many tries last year.
And for unexpected to happen quickly it must be drilled and drilled and drilled…
January 29th, 2010 at 1:03 pm
Reply to Deon @ 12:54 pm: I disagree strongly.
January 29th, 2010 at 1:06 pm
Reply to DavidS @ 1:03 pm:
And????
January 29th, 2010 at 1:08 pm
I think we are creating terror and uncertainty with opposition teams.
In particular the sides that are successful at this, like the Bulls of 2009 and the consequent Boks of 2009 created havoc using their phased attack system.
January 29th, 2010 at 1:10 pm
Reply to DavidS @ 1:02 pm:
It is all fine in principle, but the problem is that IMO the players get bedazzled themselves.
I believe the fact that defenses expect that structure you refer too now, actually offer the opportunity to just play it on phase one and bedazzle them even more. Key is a good distributor.
January 29th, 2010 at 1:12 pm
Reply to DavidS @ 1:08 pm:
But yet the Boks scored a number of tries from 1st phase last year?
January 29th, 2010 at 1:12 pm
The Sharks of 2007 also used the system with devastating results…
Anyone recall that the current record holder for the most tries in a S14 season is one JP Pietersen?
Anyway I have to go home so I leave you with this peice of sad wisdom
January 29th, 2010 at 1:14 pm
Reply to DavidS @ 1:12 pm:
So you are not going to answer me on the Boks tries of 2009? More recent.
It is only one o clock.
January 29th, 2010 at 1:15 pm
Reply to Deon @ 12:54 pm:
OK my question, are Saffa teams really testing the other teams by setting up these phases? They try once or ttwice and then the balled is kicked, whether the kick is necessary or not.
===========
That’s the way I see it too.
And when they do set up phases,
it’s all up and down the
same channel.
January 29th, 2010 at 1:16 pm
Reply to Deon @ 1:10 pm:
No No No
You are not reading properly
It depends on the situation…
If you cannot use a phased attack and you have a set piece you have agreat attacking platform… heck
Scrum
eight players out of play until the ball comes out… just one defender and oppo backline must be ten metres behind their 8th man’s feet…. how much more of an attacking opportunity do you want?
Same with the lineout
With a phased attack the defenders can stand behind the last line of feet at the ruck as close or as far as they want so the defensive lines can be more elstic and fluid and organized…
Which is why it takes longer to break it down.
With phased play you want to switch from one end to the otehr until you can send it down the line your wing who faces two props on the other end and makes them look like poephols as he bedazzles them…
January 29th, 2010 at 1:17 pm
Reply to Deon @ 1:14 pm:
It is only one o clock.
=====
Maar hy moet die aand se
drank gaan koop en koud
maak.
January 29th, 2010 at 1:18 pm
Ali Williams making his come back from an Achilles injury lasted only 4 minutes against the Chiefs.
January 29th, 2010 at 1:18 pm
Its only 13:00 but our domestic who is a deeply religious Christian MUST go home this weekend as her ancestor spirits (her parents) are very pissed off at her because she never erected headstones for them on their graves and they are making her sick until she does erect those headstones… so she’s leaving at 14:00 to go put those headstones up and have a Nanga do a cleansing ceremony on her…
* Liberalism is such a wonderful equalizer isn’t it… diversity is brilliant.. I love it..
January 29th, 2010 at 1:19 pm
The Charge Of The Light Brigade
by Alfred, Lord Tennyson
Memorializing Events in the Battle of Balaclava, October 25, 1854
Written 1854
Half a league half a league,
Half a league onward,
All in the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred:
‘Forward, the Light Brigade!
Charge for the guns’ he said:
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.
‘Forward, the Light Brigade!’
Was there a man dismay’d ?
Not tho’ the soldier knew
Some one had blunder’d:
Theirs not to make reply,
Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do & die,
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.
Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon in front of them
Volley’d & thunder’d;
Storm’d at with shot and shell,
Boldly they rode and well,
Into the jaws of Death,
Into the mouth of Hell
Rode the six hundred.
Flash’d all their sabres bare,
Flash’d as they turn’d in air
Sabring the gunners there,
Charging an army while
All the world wonder’d:
Plunged in the battery-smoke
Right thro’ the line they broke;
Cossack & Russian
Reel’d from the sabre-stroke,
Shatter’d & sunder’d.
Then they rode back, but not
Not the six hundred.
Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon behind them
Volley’d and thunder’d;
Storm’d at with shot and shell,
While horse & hero fell,
They that had fought so well
Came thro’ the jaws of Death,
Back from the mouth of Hell,
All that was left of them,
Left of six hundred.
When can their glory fade?
O the wild charge they made!
All the world wonder’d.
Honour the charge they made!
Honour the Light Brigade,
Noble six hundred!
January 29th, 2010 at 1:20 pm
Reply to DavidS @ 1:16 pm:
No you are not willing to see the other side of the coin.
I have seen what you are referring too. Now I am trying to teach you what can be another option. Whether you think it is show boating or not.
January 29th, 2010 at 1:21 pm
Fokkers to the right
Fokkers to the left
Fokkers behind me.
And those Fokkers were
Messerschmidts.
January 29th, 2010 at 1:21 pm
I still think it has nothing to do with defences. Its a lack of basic skills to pass a ball with speed and accuracy.
I once hear Helgard Muller say that a split second at 9 becomes a 2 second ’space allowance’ for te 13/15/wing to use. But only if the passes are swift and to the hand.
If not, you lose so much time that the defence in fact has 2 seconds to wait and decide whom to defend against.
Its all about hand speed and having at least one player straigten no matter if its 15 on the overlap.
January 29th, 2010 at 1:21 pm
BTW Dawie you can save some money. They say that Viagra can now be replace by pork.
So gooi ‘n paar vark tjoppies op die braai
January 29th, 2010 at 1:22 pm
Reply to Deon @ 12:54 pm:
Well it is no secret that the Boks came close to perfecting the kick ‘n chase game in 2009, so they relied more on that one.
I also think that they first try and grind down the opposition forwards in order to gain physical ascendancy and at the same time put heaps of pressure with the kick ‘n chase. It is only later in the game against quality opposition that the 1st phase try are scored.
It is not for nothing that the Boks are considered as one of the most physical teams in world rugby.
January 29th, 2010 at 1:26 pm
Reply to newbokshields @ 1:21 pm:
I AGREE
January 29th, 2010 at 1:30 pm
I also believe our backlines need to either play from deep or stand flat and this move needs to be communicated.
At the moment its as if some players like to stand flat and others deep.
How many times for example has Habana overrun the ball?
If a backline plays togtehr for a while and the instruction is to play from deep then you learn each others hand and running speed to the point hwre you can whiplash pretty much every time no matter what the opposition does.
January 29th, 2010 at 1:32 pm
Reply to newbokshields @ 1:21 pm:
The thing is that the defense is set up in such away that no matter how fast the ball gets to the wing not much can be done with it. The support players run no faster than the defense players in order to get into position. With multi layer, zone defense quick hands and accurate passing helps but is not the key.
Dummy runners, angles of running, good targeting of opposition weaknesses on the fly (players and pattern), body position, surprise etc are all factors.
Unfortunatley because of the dynamics of the game these things cannot be taught and practiced to perfection. The skills that each player have can be honed, ala Brand type stuff, but not taught.
That is why you find some players are standouts in it, e.g. BOD. The best a coach can do is to devise a plan where the possible situation can be created for these guys to do their stuff. But it cannot be done each 1st phase otherwise the surprise becomes a known.
January 29th, 2010 at 1:34 pm
Reply to Ollie @ 1:22 pm:
Just imagine how good they will be if they have the full bag of skills available to them?
I thought of writing an article about this, but let me ask the question here. What in your opinion is the value of touch rugby in coaching today? Is it still being used?
And I am not talking about the five touch with kicking bullshit. One touch no kicking. Is there still a place for it? Is it being used in coaching?
January 29th, 2010 at 1:37 pm
Reply to newbokshields @ 1:30 pm:
“How many times for example has Habana overrun the ball?”
If you consider in 0′5 sec he is covering roughly 4 metres it is not surprising. Split seconds and half metres is what the game is about at that level.
January 29th, 2010 at 1:38 pm
During that game at Ellis when Nokwe made his debut I can bet my bottom dollar that Peter told the backline to swing it to Nokwe as fast as they can becasue for some reason that day the ball made its way through all these magic defence patterns to find the same wing 3 times in space?
Now ok this cannot be done everytime because Nokwe will be marked to the tee the next game but then the space is inside again.
The point is if you WANT to attack with your wing you need to swing the ball fast and accuratly with the simple aim to create space for you wing at speed.
I dont think our guys WANT to do this enough in a game. Too many times the onus is on the 12 to try and create something out of nothing with clever this and smart that.
There is a recipy to score backline tries but its seems we dont trust ourselves to execute that recipy enough times.
January 29th, 2010 at 1:39 pm
Reply to Deon @ 1:34 pm:
Hence my statements about Steyn at 10. It all starts there and at 9.
Touch rugby definitely has a place in training, but the rules will vary according to the desired aim of the training. e.g. Offloading, gap finding, fitness etc.
January 29th, 2010 at 1:41 pm
No Ollie I am afraid you cannot defend a wing overrunning the ball. He needs to control his speed. Some wings go through their entire careers never having overrun the ball, or standing in front of the player passing the ball.
Many of our guys are guilty of this, and habana does it more often than not. He is over-eager.
But can you blame him? He never gets the ball!
January 29th, 2010 at 1:44 pm
Deon I tink touch is the single most important training method in the game.
My experience in club rugby after school was often that coaches try to get too clever and bring out the cones and have all kinds of manouvres going where a simple game of touch naturally teaches players all the skills needed to understand space, overlaps, hand speed etc.
Especially the variety where you play with 2 balls at the same time is brilliant.
January 29th, 2010 at 1:44 pm
Reply to Ollie @ 1:39 pm:
In my view touchies tought me the most important things of rugby. Identifying space, passing speed, the influence of speed (doing things at pace) and reading the play for defense. The rest is all secondary.
If you had a good “wing” get the ball to him fast and accurately, while still creating doubt for defense on the inside, and you had a very good chance of scoring. Now if one can get that result in touch rugby then surely in a tackle situation, it should be easier?
I think shieldsie are onto something very important here.
January 29th, 2010 at 1:46 pm
Reply to newbokshields @ 1:41 pm:
Have a look when he over runs, mostly it when the ball carrier does not give the pass at the best time. Habana mostly DOES come from deep and his timing is great for receiving the ball in the gap, it’s his colleague with the ball that is not releasing on time. Whether that is because of the vision of the colleague or Habana not calling is another story.
January 29th, 2010 at 1:47 pm
Reply to newbokshields @ 1:44 pm:
Unless you have this shit they refer to as touchies here. 5 touch. The first 4 times everyone tries to be a star and then some intelligence on the 5th try. It is pretty much league without tackling.
Atleast with one touch you have to start thinking from the first millisecond.
But I agree with you again. The training method that can give you the best results.
January 29th, 2010 at 1:48 pm
Reply to Deon @ 1:44 pm:
The dangers of touch is that players tend to “learn” to drift with the ball or go into a “contact” where in real rugby they wouldn’t be able to get the ball away. It can also potentially be very bad for defense training.
January 29th, 2010 at 1:49 pm
Reply to Deon @ 1:47 pm:
We tend to play that the attacking team keeps the ball until they stuff up, i.e. forward pass, ball touches ground, hold ball too long after touch etc.
January 29th, 2010 at 1:52 pm
True Ollie.
I suppose Habana’s overrunning also has to do with that other cancer in our game where every player first wants to beat a tackle before offloading.
Just who told players its cool to first run over the oppo or even break a line before offloading?
The holy grail of rugby is space, not contact. Players must be slaves to space.
So in habanas case many time s the player with the ball just wants to make that extra yard in the tackle where he should have probably released the minute he made contact, which is what Habana naively expects?
January 29th, 2010 at 1:54 pm
Reply to newbokshields @ 1:52 pm:
Not naively, that is his job. Identify the gap, get into position to receive a pass there and put his ears back when he gets the ball.
January 29th, 2010 at 2:00 pm
Reply to newbokshields @ 1:52 pm:
Very valid questions those.
Maybe size has created this thoughts of being invincible?
Brawn over brains?
Lack of skills?
Still today coaches use the terms that the ball will always beat the man. Definately not what we are seeing on the field.
January 29th, 2010 at 2:02 pm
Reply to newbokshields @ 1:52 pm:
Just one point I disagree with. Not after making contact, just before. the moment he makes contact some momentum is already lost. Laws of physics.
January 29th, 2010 at 2:05 pm
Reply to Ollie @ 1:48 pm:
I think that touchies can be extremly good to teach players to scramble in defense and also reading the play in defense. When to go up, when to scramble to cover and more importantly to put themselves in position to cover the next attack.
January 29th, 2010 at 2:07 pm
Reds beat the Crusaders 20 – 12 in their trial match tonight.
January 29th, 2010 at 2:11 pm
Anyway
Will check in tomorrow to see by what margin the Sharks lost.
January 29th, 2010 at 3:12 pm
One back that should not run anything but straight is the 12
12 must get the baLL from the 10 – asymmetricaLLy to the defensive surge pattern of the oPPosition
The uDDer okes- 7 , 11 13 and 15 must be able to get into the space and continue the movement
aLL this must haPPen before the cuRRent day Uberdefenders gets a chance to nail the baLL caRRier.
If that haPPen- then it should be phase 2
Phase 2 should only haPPen if there is no poSSibility of phase one becoming a try scoring oPPortunity
Phase 2 shoul not be the “objective” of the phase 1- but an aCCepted outcome, from where the next phases( maybe 2 more nEEded now for a properly lined up backline to be in place again).
Position and possesion should be the outcome of intent and effort.
and then someone knocks the baLL…..
January 29th, 2010 at 4:14 pm
Reply to WiLLem @ 3:12 pm:
Ai, it sounds so easy.
January 29th, 2010 at 5:57 pm
bliksem Deon, if there’s one oke who can dismantle modern defenses its giteau, he does it reguarly for oz and the western force. if the bokke had giteau at flyhalf we would be just about unbeateable.
January 29th, 2010 at 6:14 pm
Some statistics about the “old days”
Since 1947 the average number of tries per game, in test matches between top-tier teams (6N + 3N + Arg + Lions) is around 1.7.
That’s is 1.7 total tries per test (both teams). The median value is 1.6. The average number per team is less than one, meaning that teams went try-less quite often.
The best year for tries per match has been 1997 (2.93) and the worst 1977 (0.85).
From 1947 to 1986 there has been wild swings from year to year (probably depending on who tours where) but the average has been very constant around 1.5.
From 1987 to 1992, very stable at around 2 tries per match.
From 1998 to 2006 stable at around 2.3 tries per match.
2007 (2.0), 2008 (1.8), 2009 (1.6) we saw a steep down trend every year back to the historical average.
January 29th, 2010 at 6:34 pm
Conclusions:
The “good old days of running rugby” are a figment of your imagination. The norm for the modern era at 2 tries per match is much higher than the historical average.
The number for 2009 is 1.6. Very close to the average and exactly at the median. I.E. 2209 was a typical year.
The steep drop since 2007 was probably caused by law changes. A changing environment promotes conservatism.
The ELV’s were promoted as the solution to a non-existent problem and ended up causing the self same problem.
What we need to return to the try scoring rugby of the professional era is a little stability.
January 29th, 2010 at 6:36 pm
Reply to cab @ 5:57 pm:
Yet the statistics at both test and S14 level shows that teams with Giteau at 10 fares poorly.
January 29th, 2010 at 6:37 pm
Reply to fyndraai @ 6:34 pm:
To check the numbers yourself:
http://stats.scrum.com/statsguru/rugby/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;groupby=year;opposition=1;opposition=10;opposition=184;opposition=20;opposition=3;opposition=32;opposition=4;opposition=5;opposition=6;opposition=8;opposition=9;orderby=date;size=200;team=1;team=10;team=184;team=2;team=20;team=3;team=32;team=4;team=5;team=6;team=8;team=9;template=results;type=team
January 29th, 2010 at 6:44 pm
fyndraai, some interesting stats there.
Re Giteau at 10, that doesn’t surprise me. I figured Larkham to have better stats, same for Carter, but that is poor hunch on my part.
January 29th, 2010 at 7:04 pm
Reply to Ollie @ 6:44 pm:
The quality of the rest of the team and the opponents are off coarse very important. Giteau obviously has played in poorer and against better teams than Larkham (71%) and Carter (86%).
But his test win percentage at 52% is just to poor for a top-5 team and is lower than just about every SA 10 of the last 10 years.
January 29th, 2010 at 7:06 pm
Reply to fyndraai @ 7:04 pm:
Although you can’t really judge the attacking ability of a 10 using the win ratio of the team
January 29th, 2010 at 7:09 pm
http://stats.scrum.com/statsguru/rugby/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=matches;position=4;template=results;type=player
January 29th, 2010 at 7:15 pm
Reply to Ollie @ 7:06 pm:
His attacking ability, with ball in hand is unquestionable but is that what you need in a 10?
Running, taking the gap or passing is a tactical skill. I think a 10 needs to be more strategic.
January 29th, 2010 at 7:22 pm
Stormers 6, Guppies 0
11 minutes.
January 29th, 2010 at 7:26 pm
Afkophoender again just bounced
off when he tried to tackle.
January 29th, 2010 at 7:27 pm
And then he scores from an expansive
move, ball going wide, coming back inside.
Pietersen misses a simple conversion.
11-3.
January 29th, 2010 at 8:05 pm
HT Stormers 14-9
January 29th, 2010 at 8:40 pm
24-14 – 70 minutes
January 29th, 2010 at 8:48 pm
En nou Boer?
January 29th, 2010 at 9:30 pm
29-14 vir Stormers.
Sorry, sit by die werk
met verdeelde aandag.
January 30th, 2010 at 1:42 am
Reply to fyndraai @ 6:36 pm:
interesting viewpoint and the stats make your case, but giteau has never been behind a tight 5 like the Bokke or force have. I reckon with our pack and present backline talent, this oke would ignite the bokke. Peter Grant can take it up and that is why the stormers will do well behind a better pack too – better than DeWaal. the game will change again this year and the kicking will get caught out, france showed how its going to be played, i.e. with our intensity at the breakdown but with halfbacks who can shift it, and not just skop for territory and up and unders, one can feel the shift – but this is just my opinion. Bokke will get caught out if they rely on kick n chase again, besides its a waste with teh current outside backs at SAs disposal.
January 30th, 2010 at 1:58 am
Reply to cab @ 1:42 am:
The problem with Giteau is that he believes his own press. He wanted to leave Aus last year when he wasn’t made captain.
Barnes is a much better (by many miles) than Giteau.
Stop just believing what people say and watch him when he plays. Giteau that is is.
Giteau made his name when? Playing 12 outside Larkham and inside Mortlock. Maybe that says it all.
January 30th, 2010 at 2:10 am
Reply to Deon @ 1:58 am:
u out of your tree ou boet, too much witblitz, do they make mampoer in oz?
giteau may get up saffa noses with his nugetty cockiness but the oke is far superior to barnes.
January 30th, 2010 at 2:12 am
when you take of playmakers, they dont get any better than giteau…its a footballing brain that makes and spots and feeds gaps sometimes for others and sometimes for humself. nothing like that, maybe michelak and that argie, but giteau way out front in making the backline happen.
January 30th, 2010 at 4:19 am
Reply to cab @ 1:42 am:
I’m not brave enough to predict the future but at least on the local SA scene it seems that after 42 years nobody has “worked out” the kicking game yet.
Another Stat concerning Giteau:
-Aus winning percentage with Giteau in the team (78-games) =56%
-With Giteau at 10 (36-games) = 52%
-At 9 (6-games) = 75%
-At 12 (29-games) = 62%
-Aus winning percentage 2000-2009 with Giteau NOT in the team (45-games) = 68%
No single player can get credit for all wins or be blamed for all losses, but I think the stats are a clear indication that Giteau at 10 is not good for his team.
January 30th, 2010 at 4:46 am
Place for both Barnes and Gits in the side… just a question of which plays 10, 12… I rate them both… for fairly slight blokes they NEVER miss a tackle either…
Gits’ ability to twist, accelerate and turn from seemingly anywhere is his real danger…
Aus has no problem with 10 depth, with those two the ‘Teef’ and Beale just some waiting in the wings…
Time to sort out Mortlock’s replacement come the next season or two… but methinks Ione is it… and of course Deans needs to get the almost infinite depth in their backs gelling…
Mitchell, Turner, Shepherd… too many to name…
January 30th, 2010 at 5:09 am
“but giteau has never been behind a tight 5 like the Bokke or force have”
That’s a fallacy… Aus mob have never been outweighed or out-muscled by the Boks… in fact the last few seasons it’s been the other weigh around…
January 30th, 2010 at 7:26 am
Reply to cab @ 2:10 am:
Go back to your flock, boet. Look at the big picture. If Giteau was as good as you imply, why did the Force pay a fortune and got nothing from him.
Larkham made him look good. The same way Barnes will make him look good if Barnes is at 10 and Giteau at 12. The only reason he is so highly rated, is his family legacy.
So stop smoking the skaapdrolletjies.
Reply to bryce_in_oz @ 5:09 am:
Exactly
Reply to bryce_in_oz @ 4:46 am:
I think Beale has been shown up.
IMO Ashley Cooper will be the ideal replacement for Mortlock. They just need to settle him in a spot now. Otherwise he is going to become like Tiger Pienaar.
January 30th, 2010 at 7:31 am
Reply to fyndraai @ 4:19 am:
Of the games that I saw Giteau at 9, he rarely tried to do something spectacular. Maybe him not making the decisions is a good thing for the team.
January 30th, 2010 at 7:33 am
More More!!
January 30th, 2010 at 7:33 am
Reply to fyndraai @ 4:19 am:
So he is a poor decision maker and distributor?
I wonder if cab will comment on those statistics.
January 30th, 2010 at 7:34 am
Reply to PietPloos @ 7:33 am:
Middag middag
January 30th, 2010 at 11:53 am
Reply to cab @ 1:42 am:
Bokke will get caught out if they rely on kick n chase again,
=====
I sincerely hope you
are right.
January 30th, 2010 at 4:04 pm
Reply to Deon @ 7:26 am:
Beale still a lighty… forgot Lealiifano too…
RSA need to swop some of our 9’s for some of their 10’s… albeit there is a young Swanepoel that came through QLD ranks and has recently been bought by the Force…
January 30th, 2010 at 5:41 pm
Ek het bors verkoue in die middel van somer…
Wat de duiwel gaan hier aan…
Vrou het dit eerste gekry…
Toe waarsku ek haar sy gaan nie meer hero speel met ‘n kind op skool nie want al wat dit doen is versprei die kieme, maar rai toe wat doen sy…
Lykmy vanaand loop sy weer in die yskas vas
January 30th, 2010 at 6:59 pm
Reply to Boertjie @ 11:53 am:
ja they must def now add some variation to their play, for once we actually have the players for it too. Habana is one of the best wings in the world, there’s also Fourie and De Jong and Pietersen and Mapoe – these guys should be getting some ball.
Reply to Deon @ 7:33 am:
statistics only tell part of teh picture, i can see how they might be useful in perhaps monitoring a person’s tacklecount or workrate, but how the hell you going to meausre if someone is distributing well or poorly.
you only have to watch giteau with ball in hand to see he is a bit special…beale is another very talented footballer, but he does not have the BMT of Giteau. Those two are far better than Barnes, Barnes is a safety option.
January 30th, 2010 at 8:05 pm
Reply to fyndraai @ 4:19 am: And if 2003 RWC final is anything to go by… internationally the kicking game done properly cannot be “worked out”
If done properly…
It is a game winner every time…
January 30th, 2010 at 8:09 pm
Reply to DavidS @ 8:05 pm:
I’ve read international rugby histories and they have said that the Boks of the 30’s touring to Europe were also big time flyhalf kicking game users… attaching that to monster forwards…
And a scrumhalf who plans the game and centres, wings and fullback to score tries or tackle…
January 30th, 2010 at 10:07 pm
The greatest team in rugby union history play total rugby, not 10-man rugby, its why they’ve won more games than any other.
You can look up their stats too, they are the All Blacks.
January 31st, 2010 at 12:40 am
Reply to cab @ 10:07 pm:
Up to 1991 the greatest rugby team in the world was the Springboks and they were the masters of ten man rugby…
Then they changed…
January 31st, 2010 at 12:42 am
Then the All Blacks took over that mantle….
January 31st, 2010 at 12:50 am
The statistics indicate that the greatest team in world rugby are the All Blacks.
January 31st, 2010 at 12:57 am
They have a better record than the Springboks by any measure you want.
The Springbok ledger is perilously close to England and France.
The ABs have smashed these teams since time immemorial.
The ABs have never lost to Ireland. Ever.
January 31st, 2010 at 1:03 am
Reply to cab @ 6:59 pm:
Thanks for that bit of wisdom, NOT.
January 31st, 2010 at 1:04 am
lol
January 31st, 2010 at 1:06 am
Reply to cab @ 6:59 pm:
Alot of waffle and no substance. Typical socialist
January 31st, 2010 at 1:07 am
i’m talking stats, its right up your street.
January 31st, 2010 at 1:08 am
besides dont knock the aussie welfare state, even their bludgers are well looked after, you too can go on the dole having just arrived…
January 31st, 2010 at 1:20 am
Reply to cab @ 1:07 am:
No you are making a sweeping statement of stats. You are too afraid to discuss the details. If they supported you, I am pretty sure you would be hammering on them.
Reply to cab @ 1:08 am:
Yip the socialists are making their mark on the economy. If they are not too shit lazy to work, they get into politics and try to tell everybody how to live. Then again as ploiticians they are pretty useless too. Time to rid ourselves of these oxygen thieves in the world.
That can be the new rasism. Let get rid of all the people with shit for brains. Those who would slam anything that is tradition or that work, just because it makes them feel relevant. Those who can literally just do one thing at a time, cause if not, they will be arguning with themselves. Those who are really fucking nuts.
January 31st, 2010 at 1:26 am
the stats are interesting, but they only tell part of the story, as i’ve said, even the best coaches use them as a tool only, one of many.
as for the socialists, you’ve immigrated to a country who coined the term dole bludger so you;ve got alot to learn. and as for telling everyone how to live, i thought it was you lecturing on the perils of liberal socialist education – hell i could not give a continental.
you must learn to adapt and help build your new country and walk arm in arm with your new socialist brethren.
January 31st, 2010 at 1:28 am
dont fight it…join them, its a great country, precisely cos of their liberal socialism – where else could you get paid to sit on your arse and smoke weed all day and still get the benefits of full heatlth care?
and they seem to be doing pretty good too.
January 31st, 2010 at 1:37 am
It amuses me how expat saffas criticise societies that actually work, while their own was virtually razed to the ground cos of their own selfish short-sightedness … and yet still despite all of that … they cant fathom why their ideologies clash with something that actually works.
January 31st, 2010 at 1:40 am
Cab
You are as Deon says shirking the truth…
Up to 1991 SA had a better win lose ratio against New Zealand in rugby.
Our rugby was historically viewed as being staid, conservative, with big tough Boer forwards and a scrumhalf / flyhalf combination to dominate the game…
fter 1991 we tried all sorts of nonsense
“Natal Rugby”
“Hardloop rugby”
“Defend first rugby”
“Brumbies Rugby”
“Auckland Blues Rugby”
You name it
When all we needed to do was go back to the old teams of the 1930’s to 1950’s to see what made them great…
Forward domination
Good kicking
Hard running backs
The New Zealanders as a team in a statistical win/lose sense only caught up with South Africa post isolation…
ps… it’s because of non liberalism that you lost can afford to be liberals today…
I got news for you
Islam is on the rise and it does not tolerate religious freedom or freedom of speech… just ask the Danish and Salman Rushdie
China is the next superpower and neither do they
India is the one following and India follows an apartheid style class system as rigid as what apartheid ever was and it’s also based on the lightness of your skin color…
In the West this laizzes faire tolerance is going to cause the West to decline and vanish in an amazed squeal of “tolerate us fat nanny staters” when they get sent to the wall for criticising government… or making fun of a Mufti’s beard…
Guess what
Go to places like Chinaforum
The Chinese think liberal whites are a joke and that your attitudes about tolerance and freedom and nanny state care is a sign of weakness…
Damn cab I wish I can be a fly on the wall when some Indian classifies you as a backwards caste and refuses you entrance to a hotel because the eyes aren’t blue enough….
In Saudi Arabia your salary is worked out solely in accordance with your race
Saudis first
Whites
Other Arabs
Pakistanis
Indians
Phillipinos
Blacks
Why are you not whingeing about that because that is your future cabbo…
January 31st, 2010 at 1:40 am
Reply to cab @ 1:37 am: Maybe if you talked sense one could answer….
Go screw the skaap and come back when you’re sober
January 31st, 2010 at 1:41 am
Let me ask you this
Which country is the most successful
Welfare State Canada
Capitalist State USA
No need to answer
Just go have your STFU with a nice helping of hot toddy
January 31st, 2010 at 1:42 am
Its not me thats shirking the truth, quite the opposite, as jack nicholson said ‘you cant handle the truth’.
you cant even see how ingrained the justifications are.
January 31st, 2010 at 1:45 am
Reply to DavidS @ 1:41 am:
how would you define most successful?
what is the population of canada and america.
does canada have the same poverty problem, does canada have the same healthcare problems, does canada have the same crime problems?
crickey, i dont think u have a brain cell in your kop.
January 31st, 2010 at 1:47 am
Reply to DavidS @ 1:40 am:
why the hell should i care what happened to 1991 or 1926 or 1812?
I am talking about the team with the greatest rugby ledger in world rugby, no other team comes close.
It is you who is selectively choosing 1991. Hell before 1991 the best maori players were’nt allowed to tour and our lot were more crooked than die groot krokodil.
January 31st, 2010 at 2:05 am
The mighty Brian Williams when he was eventually allowed to tour, tore the Bokke a new arsepiece, they did not know what hit them. Forget about greats like Waka Nathan and George Nepia. Giants of the game that were not allowed to play.
instead we got an aging cavaliers outfit who toured for money, disowned by their own country, and for their efforts a bloubul broke their captain’s jaw with a king hit from behind.
January 31st, 2010 at 2:11 am
17 consequtive victories.
Done only twice.
and more recently by the Springbok team.
That is undeniably
the greatest ever side.
January 31st, 2010 at 2:13 am
January 31st, 2010 at 2:16 am
right it seems everyone has gone to bed, i thought maybe Donner was getting riled downunder, but he’s obviously gone to throw a shrip on the barbie of iets…
January 31st, 2010 at 3:54 am
Reply to cab @ 2:16 am:
No I am spending time with my kids. To make sure they can actually build a society again when they are adults. By that time your liberal views would have destroyed the one that the Western world was actually built on. We will need strong people and not the whimp liberal youth of today to ensure that Dawie’s predictions do not become a reality.
Don’t wish for us to get riled up. Each one of us has more bone in our small toe than a 100 of the whimp liberals. We actually believe in society that works and not only in ourselves.
BTW this scoiety you speak so highly of, will it come as a surprise that people here are starting to ask why the very principles that built this society in Aus is not present anymore.
Wake up boy. I think you better get out in the world again and actually talk to everyday people. Not the sheeple that the liberal whimps created, but actual free thinking people.
January 31st, 2010 at 10:47 am
i reckon you lot are the biggest wimps i ever seen. the liberals are far tougher and have principles.
January 31st, 2010 at 10:51 am
its the conservatives of this world that are ruled by fear.
If its not the swart gevaar, its the rooi gevaar and now its the little yellow fellas you all shitting yourself for, creating enemies where there are none.
if you okes actually did the fighting in the wars you create it might actually be something, but of course you dont, at the first sign of trouble, you’re up and off – dawie would split to given half the chance.
January 31st, 2010 at 11:07 am
You okes telling everyone else to wake up, when you’ve been asleep for centuries, thats what brainwashing does. Nurtured on what pa had to say on the swaartes, preached too from the pulpit by the calvinistic preacher, broken down even further in the weermag so that u know no other way and surrounded by ppl who’ve only known the same insular thing – its no wonder you’re ill at ease with outsiders and liberal ideals – they are a total antithesis to your own.
January 31st, 2010 at 11:09 am
free your mind, embrace new ideas – you might actually learn something.
January 31st, 2010 at 11:21 am
I see that we are setting the world
to rights again on RW.
I’m off skiing with the laaitie and Ben
for the day.
Freeride!!yeeha!
No point talking about it
quack!quack!
get on it!
January 31st, 2010 at 11:22 am
Reply to cab @ 10:47 am:
Bwhaahahahahaha
Fucking bunch of liars.
The sky is falling the sky is falling.
All to line your own pockets. Your world are going to start coming apart fast now.
Principles????
Again I would like to be a fly on the wall and let me see you stick to your principles should you one day have kids. When you actually have to put somebody’s well being before yours for real and not just crow about it.
Luckily for us, the self proclaimed free thinkers will be wiped out by AIDS or some or other STD. Nature has this way of ridding itself of destructive elements.
So by all means sleep around, just don’t do it with the livestock. We will need them for food after you are gone.
January 31st, 2010 at 11:26 am
you must learn to embrace the ozzies … oi oi oi … its their way now. your kids will grow up as ozzies, its a good thing.
i’m off to spain for 3 months so we will have to talk when i return. i hope they have socialists there…
January 31st, 2010 at 11:42 am
Reply to cab @ 10:51 am:
Oh sure yes. It is the conservatives that are telling the world that it will come to an end due to the influence of man on nature.
WRONG
It is the liberals and their military wing the greens that want to tell the people that just to give them a nice retirement package. And how do they do it. THEY LIE. Manipluating data to serve their cause. Sensationalising reports to say what people never said.
You are nothing but the biggest bullshitters.
And in any case, what is so wrong with believing in something bigger than yourself. Serving to build a society where people respect each other. That is what religion teaches us. Do not murder, do not steal, respect yourself, marriage as a sacred bond between two people, etc. Why would you as a liberal not embrace that?
Like everything it can be abused by extremists, but they are still in the minority and society deals with it and erradicate this. For instance Islam itself is not an extreme religion, but certain factions within it gives people the wrong impression.
The problem is that liberals are extremists for one thing and one thing only: To get their filthy little hands on as much money as possible by fighting for a cause and after they got it, they do not give a damn about the cause that they fought for.
My old example: Corpral punishment was abandoned after research has shown it can make people violent later in life. My question is simply if that research has been repeated now years after it was abolished? No it will not as the whimps will be too scared being found out.
WHIMP WHIMP WHIMP WHIMP
Claim knowing everything and then disappearing when found out to have been wrong. Will never front up for making a mistake. Will find something new to blame for their failures. Will rather play the man than dealing with the issues.
January 31st, 2010 at 11:43 am
Reply to cab @ 11:26 am:
Really off to Spain?
January 31st, 2010 at 11:45 am
Reply to cab @ 11:26 am:
BTW what gives you the idea that Aussies are that liberal?
January 31st, 2010 at 11:45 am
the conservatives are always telling the world its armageddon cos some race that looks and thinks slightly different is growing in power to rival their own.
Reply to Deon @ 11:43 am:
yeah, PS what are the tannies like in OZ?
even tho you are against sleeping around, u seem to be a fine raccontuer of the menu
January 31st, 2010 at 11:51 am
Reply to cab @ 11:45 am:
MAybe because I am someone that believe a woman is a work of art, created by God to show just how perfect he is. But I guess you will not understand that.
Admiring the beauty of a women is quite different to lusting after her. I dare you to point to one instance I ever lusted after a woman in a picture on this site. Please go and search. That will keep you busy for a year or two and I know you wouldn;t be able to manipulate the result of your research.
Let just say I appreciate and respect the menu, but I eat at home.
January 31st, 2010 at 11:51 am
i mean for such a puritanical fellow, you seem to have a strong penchant for kaal tannies, what does religion have to say on that?
January 31st, 2010 at 11:53 am
oh right…what an explanation. you sound like chemical ali. so you actually view all those pictures since you appreciate the beauty of the female form.
right, fair enough, say no more — just one thing please dont call me a bullshitter ever again.
January 31st, 2010 at 11:55 am
i bow down to your bullshitting supremacy…
master, teach me what you know.
January 31st, 2010 at 12:00 pm
So every time you check out a tannie’s beaver and baps, you are actually praising God?
Are you trying to convince me or yourself?
ha ha … i better log off, now now i get you into groot kak.
January 31st, 2010 at 12:16 pm
i had a friend who cheated on his wife, he destroyed trust as opposed to just sleeping around since he was married and not single you see, anyway when i asked him why he did it, he explained ‘oh you wont understand, she was a kindered spirit’, despite this transcental profundity and noble explanation, i wanted to know ‘yes, but did you stick it in?’
never got an answer on that one to this day.
January 31st, 2010 at 1:20 pm
Reply to cab @ 11:55 am:
If I say what I want to say, I will be told to back off as you might throw your toys.
Maybe someday you will get to know me, before making statements like that.
January 31st, 2010 at 1:22 pm
Reply to cab @ 12:00 pm:
Have I ever posted pornography on this site, little twirp?
Is it just not in your understanding that someone can be like that? Does everybody have to fuck around so that you don;t feel the odd one out?
I didn’t cause my parents taught me to respect women and myself. So call me a nerd or what fucking ever, but believe me I can say that with my head held high and today I can appreciate the fruits of that in my relationship with my wife.
You do not have to worry to get me into the shit. My conscience is clear. And my wife appreciates that.
Go google the word “adult” and maybe you will see what it is to be one.
January 31st, 2010 at 1:23 pm
See I will not upset your poor fragile soul.
January 31st, 2010 at 1:26 pm
Fuck this, your little shit, why don’t you answer my question why you have a problem with religion?
Too complicated to understand?
Typical liberal all spin no substance. Grow some balls and actually stand up for something in your life except for yourself. I guess that you think it is your right to conquer every woman you can lay your paws on is fine. Nevermind their right to be respected. Equal rights for all, but only when it suits you.
January 31st, 2010 at 1:34 pm
Run and hide you coward. Don;t let the worry of getting me into shit be an excuse.
January 31st, 2010 at 1:46 pm
And I have the freedom of religion and association, so if you want to ridicule that right, you are a fucking hypocrite.
Seeing that you believe that everybody should have the freedom to do what they want.
Just shows you again how fucked up your beliefs are. Confused. No substance a waste of oxygen to allow you to live.
That is how you play the man. you can’t even do that properly.
January 31st, 2010 at 2:19 pm
Reply to cab @ 10:51 am:
If its not the swart gevaar, its the rooi gevaar and now its the little yellow fellas
=======
Can’t let this pass.
The swart gevaar is currently
very active – fucking up a once
proud country.
Wake up: read the writing on the
wall.
January 31st, 2010 at 3:34 pm
Reply to cab @ 1:28 am:
“where else could you get paid to sit on your arse and smoke weed all day and still get the benefits of full heatlth care?”
Let me give you the drum of getting on the dole…
> you have to have almost zero in your bank a/c
> no assets
> no spouse with assests
> no kids with assets
And be able to prove the above…
If so… you can get $420 a fortnight…
Wow… it is the lucky country eh?
As for the rest of this thread… too much God mention… but I’m going to get another vino and some munchies and scroll back…
January 31st, 2010 at 6:48 pm
getting hot here,
moerre is kort
January 31st, 2010 at 6:50 pm
Reply to cab @ 1:45 am:
Has Canada landed on the moon?
Has Canada invented flight?
Has Canada cracked the atom?
Has Canada got a private medical care system that ranks as the best in the world?
Has Canada got dropping crime levels?
Has Canada got the most millionaires?
Has Canada invented PC’s and laptops and Ipods?
Does Firefox, Windows, and Linux come from Canada?
Does Canada have universities that are worldwide household names like Yale, UCLA, MIT, Harvard?
Has the USA had to repeal education policies like OBE?
The answer to all is NO
The USA is a success because of its Drawinian reality that only winners are recognized.
Canada teaches kids that “taking part” makes you a winner which has bred a society where people are too afraid to speak their minds and where people have to wait 28 weeks to see a specialist in the state owned enterprises and Canada is the country with the largest number of people legally emigrating to the USA…
If Canada is so cool why are Canadian educated and intelligensia moving to the USA…
Case closed… nice try…
Reply to cab @ 1:47 am:
Wilson Whinneray toured to SA in the 1960’s so stop lying.
Reply to cab @ 1:47 am:
Nice try at changing the discussion little communist… the stats were not the initial discussion point… you have forgotten what I quoted the stats for …. sorry cab you are outwardly underlining your own ignorance with each post…
Reply to cab @ 10:47 am:
Not really
Being a liberal is being a sheeple… embracing the ideals of everything the government and media tells you… being a good little sheep does not make you brave…
Bravery is being right in a time when being right gets you in trouble… fact is my views are unfashionable but true and a minority…
I have the coirage of those convictions moron…it takes no courage to bleat what you are expected to bleat….
Wimp.
It was Thomas Jefferson (one of your liberal heroes who really was NOT) who said
“It is dangerous to be right in a time where everyone believs what is wrong…”
Deon
Cab has done exactly what all liberals do in debate
Shirk responsibility for answering the arguments and then running scared or firing back with ad hominems…
He’s pathetic..
January 31st, 2010 at 6:51 pm
I have just finished skiing with my laaitie.
He has a thing for speed.
Its such a priviledge to watch him go
hell for leather on the slope
no fear
and his smile at the end.
Yeeha!
freeride.
January 31st, 2010 at 6:56 pm
Oom D,
canadians love canada.
A lot of my wealthy american friends
and clients
live in france.
They hate the states and its way of being.
fact.
Especialy calafornia and new york.
I agree with Cab,
everyone must chose what pleases him.
And its not for one to judge another.
Why have some of us this absolute obsession
to crucify him thats diffirent?
Whether you’re religious,conservative,communist,
homo,black,pink
or whatever
chill.
Put a guard before your mouth
before you become a slave to your words.
January 31st, 2010 at 7:03 pm
Its insecurity really.
Anyone who believes in his moral values
and whatever system he choses to follow
should have the confidence in tolerating
those who are diffirent
like the spice of life.
However if one has doudbt in your own core
we seem to act agressively towards anything diffirent.
Life is too short.
My laaitie cleared about 2O metres today
on a ramp and drop
people looked at me in disbelief.
Ja he could get a bang,
but he very well may succeed.
I have enough confidence in him to trust him.
And he is five.
January 31st, 2010 at 7:06 pm
Toppie,
=======
Can’t let this pass.
The swart gevaar is currently
very active – fucking up a once
proud country.
Wake up: read the writing on the
wall.
or one can argue we fucked it up by not allowing
a black man to participate freely
in his own country.
Its all angle.
January 31st, 2010 at 7:12 pm
Hey also google something called
The Bell Curve
A bunch of liberal scientists funded by liberal pressure groups to prove there is no IQ differences between races manage to prove the opposite….
Bwahahahahahahahahah!!!
So much for “we’re all the same”
January 31st, 2010 at 7:13 pm
Reply to Duiwel @ 7:06 pm:
Duiwel
In countries where he was?
Somalia
Liberia
Haiti
Need we say more?
January 31st, 2010 at 7:22 pm
Ja dawie we need to say more.
Bosnia,poland,romania,china,vietnam,japan.
It seems as if you have a superior feeling
to those countries living in strife
and poverty.
Why?
Most europeans see south africans in total
as rascist,closeminded hill-billy’s ,boet.
And from listening to you gaaning aan about
the masterrace,
i agree with them.
January 31st, 2010 at 7:27 pm
Everyone that i’ve met who visited
south africa
don’t gaan aan about crime boet,
they gaan aan of in particular
the afrikaners narly attitude towards
everyone else.
January 31st, 2010 at 7:56 pm
Reply to Duiwel @ 6:56 pm:
because right must never allow permissiveness to give way to what is wrong…
Tolerance is a dangerous luxury
I do not see any reason to be tolerant and understanding of people who do not show the same to me…
And trying to take judgmentalism out of human nature must be the dumbest thing anyone has ever suggested.
Just think of it.
Human nature is based on the ability to judge intelligently.
We do it every day.
It is what we use to determine our relationships with those we interact with…
Anyone who tells me not to judge is not a human being…
January 31st, 2010 at 8:02 pm
Reply to DavidS @ 6:50 pm:
Wilson Whinneray toured to SA in the 1960’s so stop lying.
=========
Correction: He was not a Maori.
Captained the side at prop, got
his arse handed to him on a plate
by Chris Koch and Piet Spiere.
Very good captain though.
Sir Wilson James Whineray, KNZM, OBE
January 31st, 2010 at 8:05 pm
Reply to Duiwel @ 7:22 pm: Gypsies are not white
If you look at Poland’s history you will see a rich and beautiful story. You know that the Poles were the ones that saved Western Europe the second time the Turks came for Vienna
That in 1920 the Poles threw back a massive invasion by the USSR
The rest of the countries are not in the same league…
Your examples prove me right.
I honestly couldn’t give a damn what Europeans look at us as….
They see Americans in the same way
We and Americans see them as a failed experiment in Big Brotherhood in a society so permissive it will tolerate itself out of existence
Europe today is what Rome was after 250AD
The end is nigh for Europe so they can look at us anyway they want…
January 31st, 2010 at 8:10 pm
Reply to Boertjie @ 8:02 pm: I recollect once seeing an interview with Doc where he told the Kiwis not to send Maoris that were to obviously not white
And the Kiwis said the ones they’d send would be whiter than some Boere…
I always thought Wilson Whinneray was a Maori
Anyway Brian Williams was one… and that was the 60’s wasn’t it?
January 31st, 2010 at 8:15 pm
Dawie,
you are talking shit again,
i’m off.
January 31st, 2010 at 8:40 pm
Reply to Duiwel @ 8:15 pm: Heheheheheheh
Freedom of speech
Invention of conservatives…
Cheers Duiwel
Good to have these disagreements
January 31st, 2010 at 8:49 pm
Reply to DavidS @ 8:10 pm:
Dit sal help as jy bietjie
Google:
Bryan Williams, MBE became an All Black in 1970 as a wing and distinguished himself in the 1970 South African Rugby Tour where he was a sensation, scoring 14 tries in his 13 appearances.
Ek dink Sid Going (9) was die eerste Maori wat hier getoer het:
Sid Going MBE (for his contributions to rugby) played 86 matches, including 29 tests for the All Blacks between 1967 and 1977.
BTW my mail aan jou het gebons. Kry
‘n ordentlike server.
January 31st, 2010 at 9:03 pm
Toppie,
theres no point telling him,
he’ll only blame the blacks.
His masterrace kak reminds me a bit of Skopskiet
well put,even informative albeit from
a fairly narrow perspective,
but after he has worked himself in a frenzy
he loses the credibility he had gained by
descending into the realms of the masterace.
In all honesty,if i was a black oke in power
and had a day like today
where everybody shared the mountain
each in his own way,
most people\tourist have very little manners
they push in,park\drive like twats,litter,piss everywhere and are generally
ducks
their colour does not even occur to me.
The fact that there are people of a diffirent colour
does not drive me to prove
“white is better”
then if we are all white
which white is better.
Its stupid.
More important,
my laaitie picks up litter and mumbles that
some people are “des canards” ie.ducks
and i see even adults look embaressed around him
cause his right.
He even told one bloke off for dropping
a cigarette but in the snow.
Nicely.
Mister,its not good to drop things in nature,
for half a second i thought
it might go pearshaped
but the guy rubbed his head and said
boy,you are right,
thanks for reminding me.
This makes me realise how great it is here.
Skin colour does not feature
who you are,and how you are
is whats important.
If he grew up at home
he’d be another arrogant,obnoxious kid
thinking himself better
for being a diffirent colour.
January 31st, 2010 at 9:05 pm
If i was a black oke in afrika
and an oke like Oom Dawie told my boy off
for being black
i’d hate forever.
And we still wonder why the blake okes still hate?
January 31st, 2010 at 9:25 pm
In Amerika het elkeen die reg tot ‘n graad, selfs al is dit een in hamburger-tegnologie.
- Clive James
January 31st, 2010 at 9:31 pm
Dis about reg Toppie,
I like the yanks in general.
Good business people,i learn a lot off them,
and they are service orientated.
i deal a lot with sram,rockshox and have been
invited twice now to attend
the rockshox school in colorado
all paid.
First year i went to canpagnolo instead
this year i went to cervelo in swiss.
hopefully i’ll get another invite next year
heard there is great fishing there.
January 31st, 2010 at 9:33 pm
BTW the local macdos here turns 7\7
07HOO-23H00,with a drive-by.
Jissus they must be coining it.
January 31st, 2010 at 9:34 pm
Reply to Duiwel @ 9:05 pm:
Difficult in Africa, Boet.
Police force had their national
party in Bloem.
50 000 of the force of 150 000
left crime to itself.
Got drunk in public, pissed in
the streets, some just fell
over and slept on the sidewalk.
Cost to the taxpayer = R60 million.
Hard to fathom this when you have
a different value system.
News today: Zuma fathered his 20th
child, this time with the daughter
of a life long friend, Irvin Khoza.
Different values, the two will
never meet.
January 31st, 2010 at 9:42 pm
Ja -ja Toppie ,ek weet.
Some okes are no diffirent than
the okes they are supposed to contain.
Some cultures just make your skin crawl.
The muslim cover your face,hou jou bek
men are better than women kak en hare wek my op.
Not enough to take the kettie and
bring war to them
maar genoeg om my te laat verby hou.
i am completely diffirent in africa.
You never relax.
And that builds frustration.
I can honestly say that i am relieved
when the plane takes off.
Although i realise this is my doing.
The cold hate that builds in me there
is a familiar friend
that i hardly ever here from here.
January 31st, 2010 at 9:48 pm
Toppie,
i’d like to give your email adress
to a buddy of mine
from home
lives in the uk now.
He likes to know what goes on at home,
reads a lot of it
but is always left to wonder.
Is dit goed so?
January 31st, 2010 at 9:49 pm
At least no-one got shot.
January 31st, 2010 at 9:52 pm
Reply to Duiwel @ 9:48 pm:
Corruption and bad government
has nothing to do with hate.
Goed so, jy kan my adres gee.
January 31st, 2010 at 9:54 pm
Then again,got invited to a posh
restuarant,club effort in hillcrest?
by a buddy,
full of police and sadf brass
senior officers
i got absolutely hammered
my buddy out of angst
started drinking
by about half ses on a sunday afternoon
among the brass and their virgin daughters
we were just hitting the good stuff.
Rof en lelik.
Lang jare se skande.
January 31st, 2010 at 9:58 pm
Dankie man,
ja,jy is reg,
then again i haven’t seen the evidence
of responsable management
anywhere in afrika.
In a 150 years.
As for france,
mitterand was like old zuma
just tried to cover it up,
chirac a thief
and the gypsy,
only time will tell.
At the very least
i get more out of my tax money
than i put in.
Brilliant.
January 31st, 2010 at 9:59 pm
Oom D
wie,
have you dissapeard
January 31st, 2010 at 10:02 pm
January 31st, 2010 at 10:12 pm
Reply to Duiwel @ 10:02 pm:
Suip seker. Net WITblits.
then again i haven’t seen the evidence
of responsable management
anywhere in afrika.
In a 150 years.
=========
Gee die ou orde die eer:
Hulle het ‘n eerstewêreld
land gebou: Eskom, Sasol
en al die ander goed.
Alles wat nou in sy moer gaan.
“Groen Druppel” verslag oor die
land se waterbronne word nou al
drie maande geheim gehou.
Goeie rede: Al die damme en riviere
is vol kak, grondwater is besmet
met mynafval.
Hier kom groter kak as Eskom, wat
nou 35% verhoging per jaar vir 3
jaar soek.
Kan jy dink hoe dit die ekonomie
gaan opfok?
January 31st, 2010 at 10:26 pm
Kan nie eers begin dink
hoé om te red nie.
Rumours or die goud ook gehoor.
Water in afrika if fokken belangrik.
Water enige plek eintlik.
Kan nie sien eers hoé iets kan verander
in vyftig jaar in sa nie.
Ek het nou die dag met n grootkop
gesels wat se besigheid geld as hulp
na afrika stuur.
Sé hulle is gatvol vir afrika.
Dik vir geee,gee,gee en fokol gebeur verder nie.
Dik.
hartseer.
January 31st, 2010 at 10:40 pm
Sit gou nuwe drade op.
Ander manne lê ammal
dronk oppie solder,
ou man moet al die fkn
werk doen.
January 31st, 2010 at 10:45 pm
Reg so Toppie,
vrou kyk blood diamond
kannie gepla wees nie,
gaan die asblikke uitvat
en ben vat vir n draai.
mooistap
annerdag
January 31st, 2010 at 11:38 pm
Reply to cab @ 10:07 pm:
There are many possible reasons why the All Blacks are the best team internationally. Game-plan is but one of them.
The statistics about the AB win-loss ratio therefore tell us that they are the best, not why they are the best.
To determine the why, one need to structure your data or your sample to correct for or cancel out all but one variable. When it comes to the Bulls v say WP’s success locally over a long period, the only variable that stands out is kicking rugby(unless you can convince me of something else).
Internationally, I don’t think one can remove the other possibilities.
January 31st, 2010 at 11:48 pm
By the way:
Beautiful article about Invictus in this week’s “The Economist”.
http://www.economist.com/books/displayStory.cfm?story_id=15391297
Read it.
Go see the movie. It’s great.
February 1st, 2010 at 12:51 am
Reply to Duiwel @ 6:56 pm:
I am sorry, but I cannot agree with you about not judging. I do not care what the colour of aomeone’s skin is, but we all need to work together to build a society that works.
In the old South Africa society did not work because of a right wing conservative views.
In the new world (not only SA) we have been feeling so guilty that we just tolerated little know it all shits like cab to tell us we must be on the other end of teh spectrum. We felt so bad that we were a part of the old that we just tolerated and accepted anything they suggested. Becoming sheeple like them.
I had enough of just tolerating their bullshit. The majority of what they suggested and implemented are being proven wrong. The only thing they can claim is the fight against racism. The problem is that they think that is big enough to make them world leaders.
I have seen what is happening in SA, I am seeing what is happening to the youth here, I hear how people are complaining about the slapgat attitude by the youth, I have heard what is happening in Europe. It is enough. Most of these do-gooders don;t give a shit as they know they will not breed (there are still miracles).
I applaude you for taking blame in the part that you might have played in the old SA, but sure as hell one cannot just now let the pendulum swing to the other side?
Again I do not give a fuck about the color of anybodiy’s skin, I give a damn about the society. A society where people respect each other and can work together. Not one where youths hit each other with glasses cause the one looked at the other in a way he didn;t like.
A society where tolerance is not necessary, because people respect each other.
Yes Utopia I know, but atleast one can work towards it, even if one knows it will never be reached.
Boertjie,
I guess cab will be very proud of Jacob Zuma. Seeing that he have 20 children and how many wifes. Then he claims that he believes in equal rights for women and treats them all equal.
Somebody should explain to him that equal rights mean that his wifes may have multiple husbands. Wonder if his culture will allow that. he must also remember that his culture permitted the senseless murder of other tribes. So is that maybe why they are soft on crime? Should his culture have evolved wrt crime and they do not condone murder anymore, then surely the culture could evolve to follow the principle of marriage within the bigger society?
The free living way. Go for it. May all their condoms be of poor quality.
February 1st, 2010 at 8:19 am
Reply to Duiwel @ 9:05 pm: Die probleem is dat ek reg sal wees en geen haat gaan my reg verkeerd maak nie.
Ek weier om vanaf die waarheid weg te stap net omdat dit nie gewild is nie…
February 1st, 2010 at 8:26 am
Guys I have been reading this thread an despite emotions boiling over a bit it is still one of the best debates you can find anywhere among South Africans on the web.
My wife always gives me kak about blogging on a rugby site, asking :”how much can one say about rugby?”
Well I showed her the Luke thread and lets just say she now is seen reading threads every now and then.
As with everything in life it seems the truth is somewhere inbetween. The way for example the apartheid state got things done was not always kosher and some aspects needed to change. The way plotted by a liberal influenced ANC (with a majority of its members ultra conservative people who has allowed their political beliefs to override their cultural ones.) is also not always right.
Which in essence is why the DA is not taking the kid of foothold one would expect.
February 1st, 2010 at 8:32 am
If Cope was to embrace conservatism they will attract mainly afrikaner whites to the party, which brings with it loads of skill.
If they play their cards right they will also appeal tot he conservative nature of black people, escpecially in rural SA.
Now imagine this collaboration? Conservative versus Liberal? However a ‘conservative’ grouping based along morality and ethical lines (work hard, build schools around discipline, merit etc) as opposed to a conservative grouping along racial ’status quo’ lines?
February 1st, 2010 at 8:40 am
And Cab you know the whole religion thing dont sit easy with me but Deon is right in one aspect:
if you have children you view everything different. I am a strong bliksem and I know I will be fine regardless (probably because I was rasied in a system where I had to fight for things) but I really fear for my child in this dispensation, because kids are not quipped by the system to one day fend for themselves when things dont go their way.
I see my little black brother daily. No way is he as confident and well equipped as I was at his age. Only now in a school that kinf of embraces the old way of doing things is he getting some grip.
February 1st, 2010 at 9:58 am
Is “compliance to legislation” aligned with
respect for the “rule of law”
If Duiwel’s 5 year olde were born during the industrial revolution in Wales his outlook and outcome would have largely been decided by which family he was born into. The majority of Kids ended up working in the coalmines.
Now how has this change came about?
What kind of of system had allowed it in the first place?
how was it changed? The frequently quoted Darwinian principle of evolution has evolved what, in order to get to Mary PoPPins?
There is a lot of foam around the mouth of late on RW.
I have discuSSed my diFFerence in Opinion with Cab & Dawie on the “LukasX” thread. No nEEd to revisit it again- ala a “paSSer- al om my eie gat”
Deon
I agrEE with you 100% on the k@k that is generated because of the avoiding of the “spare the rod and spoil the child” reality.
Criminals and criminal intent have way tOO many “rights”
Blame the people benefiting from the behavior –
the lawyers and their lawmaking buDDies- who while ensconcing the “liberal way in legislating” often acts/lives the hardline “conservative” way.
I disagrEE totaLLy with you on your take on GrEEn tech “teRRorrism”.
I accept that Al Gore and his Cabal of Scientist are fudging a lot of i$$ues wrt to Global Warming/Climate Change- ea they are lying
BUT
are they le$$/more criminal than the worlds bankers financial people ea the so caLLed “conservative loBBy and its backers”?
My take is that this so caLLed inteLLigentsia haLLowed by the local Alternative History Prof is more likely “not so” inteLLigent and not sociaLLy responsible at aLL. Just plain fucking grEEdy. But hey Its “bu$ine$$” Has humasn nature also evolved because of Natural selection?
gOOde example is the cyanide laced ground water of the FrEE State Gold Fields- bread basket of SA, and its devastating long term eFFect.
Selectiveness is great- but it produces patterns where the cut and past joBBie (that suit “me” (hoGGenheimer handlanger and consumerist apologist) – right now in the aLL engulfing iSSue of the boTTom line and turning a profit at aLL cost, are both cut from and pasted to.
Now the media must spin that( cut & paste joBBie) so nobody can interpret that logicaLLy anymore.
Then aLL is gOOde- because those who had bEEn irresponsible with the past- wiLL never be brought to justice…. and just to cap it oFF , they have this almost pshycotic tendency to blame aLL and sundry, of the very things they have done themselves.
Hehehe
aLL in ALL
The like- minded people oZZies to yourself
Are they voting “Liberal” or “Family First”
I suPPort a society where aLL must comply with the laws – of
1 Nature
2 Logic
3 Experience of what works.
FrEEdom of spEEch is at least something we aLL have online now
But eish- this “ridicule” way – doesnt go down weLL with me.
I gueSS I want the “frEE Market” ( hehehehe what a fuckin laugh at the diFFerent understanding of the word frEE in this context) but also a responsible world economic system.
And responsible parents and politicians, law makers, policemen, consumer strategists, lawyers, financial professionals…..
Maybe I am asking tOO much.
February 1st, 2010 at 12:01 pm
Reply to WiLLem @ 9:58 am:
Don;t get me wrong, I strongly believe that we must stop polluting.
BUT
Do not come and tell me that CO2 is a pollutant. It is crucial to life on earth. That is basic science.
I am all for finding alternative sources of energy and believe that the human race have let themselves down many a times. Oil & coal is just to easy.
What is worrying is that China is the leader in the development and use of renewable energy.
Unfortunately Gore was so pissed off that he couldn;t get the USA presidency that he wanted to get in control of the “global government”. This would have been the result of the liberal scaremongering.
Why I do not support the Greens is because they are extremists. Nothing more than terrorists. If you don;t agree with them, they will do their best to destroy you. BY ALL MEANS!!!!
Hope that clears up my stance regarding that.
We must find ways to limit our influence on this planet, but again do not tell me that CO2 are responsible for the global warming or is it cooling?
There are so many factors that influence this planet and the space around it. We are nothing compared to that. It is only the lefty liberals/ socialists that believe that they are God and will be able to change the climate.
February 1st, 2010 at 12:22 pm
Reply to Deon @ 12:01 pm:
That’s why Eskom is building
two new coal fired power
stations.
And by accident the ANC
has a 25% share in the
consortium.
February 1st, 2010 at 12:29 pm
Reply to Deon @ 12:01 pm:
Then on that one we are on the same page!
Europe sEEms to be rather mature in this regard- with new technologies to augment – but the biGGest mindshift aLLready made. Just stiLL tOO much dependent on natural gaz!
Expect America to make huge investment in battery development and refining “unswEEt crude”.
China is indEEd coMMiTTing huge effort into renewable energy – while stiLL slurping up whatever fossilbased fuels they can get.
The West very much the same.
In this it is my opinion that the highest biDDer, informed by the best information wiLL get the “honey”.
_______________________________
I do consider myself a moderate person-
with strong sentiments for “aLL encompa$$ing” social justice, operating capably in a weLL regulated “FrEE Market” ( frEEdom of choice to chOOse- not frEEdom from regulatory sanction for the racketEEring profitEErs)-
coz its diFFicult to sound base with extremists, from whatever side.
It sEEms that “moderate” translate easily as “unprincipled”, “fence- siTTing” and other one sided opinions. ( not in particulary refeRRing to the RW Scene)
February 1st, 2010 at 12:32 pm
Reply to Boertjie @ 12:22 pm:
And why not nuclear power? Not enough money in it, I guess. Don;t be surprised if they have shares in the coal mine aswell.
What is funny here is that we sit with the largest deposit of uranium, but not one nuclear power station. The unions has got the coal mines by the balls so they want to make sure they get their share.
If you want to work on a coal mine, you HAVE to be a union memeber and the membership fees are $700 per year. Of that the majority goes to the Labor party. And guess who doesn’t want to even discuss the use of nuclear power?
Yet they want to implement a Emission trading scheme that according to them will lower carbon emissions. Now let me tell you that I worked with commodity traders and we investigated getting involved with these carbon credit trading in South Africa. The only reason we did was not to decrease carbon emissions. It was the amount of money that was to be made.
Does that sound familiar? Greenies with green fingers. And not from gardening.
February 1st, 2010 at 12:40 pm
Reply to WiLLem @ 12:29 pm:
The problem at this stage with battery development is that the materials of which the batteries are made will be polluting the earth much longer after their useful life, than actually running a car on petrol.
I saw an interesting program on Discovery last week. Some guys here in Aus have developed a process that can store the energy of the sun. It has something to do with splitting molecules and then storing the resultant substance seperately. (I couldn’t pay full attention, the kids where all around me).
Then when you mix the two substances again the energy gets released. They claimed that they would be able to export it and maintain Japan’s energy supply using only that. Let’s face it, there is not a shortage of sunlight here.
Now what pisses me off is that the IPCC scientist gets millions to investigate the effects and then try to bullshit us, but these guys with a workable solution must scrounge around to get funding.
I guess if they found the solution too quickly the Gore and Rudd’s ofthis world will not be able to feed their ego’s and make the mula of it.
February 1st, 2010 at 12:41 pm
Should read “grEEnies with LONG grEEn fingers”
grEEngrEEd is grEEd- simple as that!
February 1st, 2010 at 12:51 pm
Reply to WiLLem @ 12:41 pm:
February 1st, 2010 at 12:51 pm
Reply to Deon @ 12:32 pm:
What is funny here is that we sit with the largest deposit of uranium, but not one nuclear power station.
======
That will change once Malema
and the Youth League has
nationalised all the mines.
The process has already
been started.
February 1st, 2010 at 12:52 pm
Reply to Deon @ 12:40 pm:
Deon
Politicians are politicians
How do you think they got to the top of their own party?
By being nice?
They aLL, Gore – KruDD, Dubya , Duiwels Gypsey etc are iNNit for the mula- hence my take on social responsibility- not to be “deliberatly” confused with the redTshirt brigade.
The top 10-15 % of any democratic budget wiLL find its way to the “ruling elite’s iNNer sanctum” that is the “understOOd” price of “DEMOCRACY”.
In societies that functions reasonable weLL – of which you are part now- at least 65-75-85 % percent of taxes coLLected ( depending of the eFFectiveness of the Public service- service rendering model) directly benefits the tax payers! DiFFerent parties left or right of the centrum wiLL just aLLocate it to optimaLLy benefit its constituancy.
Eish!
Great!
Democracy rulz OK!
graBBa aNNuda can of XXXX and be haPPy!
February 1st, 2010 at 12:53 pm
It’s a dirty business, this going green thing.
February 1st, 2010 at 12:55 pm
Reply to Deon @ 12:40 pm:
Isreali prof is developing a ultra long life baTTery of which the by product – once used- is sand.
Always chance of a tech breakthrough
BiGGest breakthrough nEEded is the in the mindset of the “people”.
February 1st, 2010 at 1:02 pm
Reply to Deon @ 12:51 pm:
I am talking about Aus.Reply to WiLLem @ 12:52 pm:
On you question on who the people will vote for. I have no idea.
The new opposition leader seems to have the Milky Bar kid in a bit of a franzy. He is a straight talker and comes across as human. The Aussies like that.
KruDD is trying to keep his nose clean by letting his ministers attack Abbott’s person. Whether it is the fact that he wears budgie smugglers when competing in a swimming race or the advice he would give his daughters. Playing the man as I don;t think they have a defense against him when he attacks their lame policies.
That said this week will be big for him. He needs to bring a counter for their ETS to the table. But then again they haven’t set the bar very high and as one commentator put it: “he only has to pick the low hanging fruit to counter them”
The most important thing for KruDD will be to try and get an election before budget time. If he doesn’t then his failure to manage the economy responsibly will be shown up. Funny enough, I read yesterday that one of his big campaigning points in 2007 was that Howard should stop the wasteful spending. Howard left him with a surplus which he has blown now and mounted up a huge debt, while actually doing nothing. Interesting times ahead here.
February 1st, 2010 at 1:03 pm
Reply to WiLLem @ 12:55 pm:
Well I hope he succeeds. Or let me put it this way: Hope he gets funding to succeed.
February 1st, 2010 at 1:26 pm
I dont know. I still think mans greed and modern mans quest for the dollar can save the planet, or at least make it beautiful again.
If there is money in green then green it will be, because we are chasign the buck.
Yet in SA, we going coal and nothing else?
Yes Deon some greens are terrorists and some hippies are angry but I’d rather a bloke take up arms for a green world than the US take up arms for oil. Lesser evil?
What I LOVE about the green revolution is the fact that every retired professor is now building some or other device in his shed.
And dont be suprosed if us people with our “boer maak `n plan” attitude come up with some of the best solutions.
Its an exciting time for engineering, and we should not get bogged down with the kak generated at political level.
Green is good but trust a politician to fuck up the spirit around the revolutiuon.
February 1st, 2010 at 1:28 pm
Hey cab
Go read this and then go liberally tolerate something bonobo!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/7103354/Grumpiness-is-a-sign-of-advanced-civilisation.html
February 1st, 2010 at 1:47 pm
Reply to newbokshields @ 1:26 pm:
February 1st, 2010 at 1:52 pm
Reply to DavidS @ 1:28 pm:
hehehe
Its a long ago “inference” that you behaves like a Chimo ERT!
graBBa Banana!
February 1st, 2010 at 1:54 pm
But seriously- rather invest more money into grEEntech than this – coz bonobo or not its spiNNing to relate “grumpyneSS” with advanced evolution.
But I am going to try it out next time the Madam griLLs me over “grumpineSS”
February 1st, 2010 at 1:59 pm
Reply to newbokshields @ 1:26 pm:
Agree.
The thing is that to make a difference you don’t need rocket science.
I thought about something to help warm the water before it goes into the geyser. Lots of people use a system of plastic pipes to warm their swimming pools. Same system but it is the water that goes into your geyser. Will probable save you about 40% on the electricity used by the thing. Simple insulation added for winter and Bob’s your uncle.
I get the idea that sometime people want to think too big. If every one just save a little it will make one hell of a difference. And it does not need to be expensive.
February 1st, 2010 at 2:02 pm
Reply to WiLLem @ 1:54 pm:
Just make sure you have the pillow and duvet already downstairs.
February 1st, 2010 at 2:07 pm
Reply to Deon @ 12:32 pm:
RSA was one of the first countries to come up with the pebble bed nuclear station model (quite an exceptional model and detailed in quite some depth somewhere in my bookmarks and on the net… the project scrapped by the pollies and Eskom a few years back now…
Actually Australia has the largest single U308 resource in the world and the country in fact more than 40% of the worlds reserves… from the NT to SA to WA the place is glowing… RSA from memory had around 8%… some very good mines in Namibia too… albeit all the best mines have long been snapped up by Aus and Canadian coys…
February 1st, 2010 at 2:09 pm
BiGGest breakthrough nEEded is the in the mindset of the “people”.
======
The “people” only have their
minds set on survival.
The “rulas” only want to grow
their bank accounts.
And when things become scarce
it does not mean planning
ahead – it means grab as much
as you can while it’s still
available.
February 1st, 2010 at 2:12 pm
Reply to DavidS @ 1:28 pm:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/7103354/Grumpiness-is-a-sign-of-advanced-civilisation.html
========
My vrou stem nie saam nie –
sy sê ek is sommer net
vol kak.
February 1st, 2010 at 2:13 pm
Reply to Deon @ 2:02 pm:
hehehe
Reply to Boertjie @ 2:09 pm:
True Oudste
ProfERT
Something that might interest you and some of the uDDerOkes
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/4f/IndoEuropeanTree.svg/1000px-IndoEuropeanTree.svg.png
February 1st, 2010 at 2:15 pm
Wonder if I Should overwrite the file wiFF Orakeleze aDDed!
February 1st, 2010 at 3:51 pm
No matter
Bonobos have a matriarchal society which is the end result of the present liberal nanny state feminization process to get men in touch with theri emotions and allow women to lead
Chimps are the opposite and the more successful species
Human advance stopped when we started to treat women the same as men… when the fact is men and women are equal but hold separate roles in a nuclear family unit…
The present “equality debate” is not about equality… it is about being the same…
February 1st, 2010 at 3:54 pm
Reply to WiLLem @ 1:52 pm:
In WW2 Germany the Chimps survived British and American bombing raids on Berlin even though the zoos were never directly affected till Soviet artillery in late April 1945.
However all the bonobos being a timid and feminized species died of heart failure
So choose who you want to be
A Cabonobo
Or an ERTChimp
I prefer to be a chimp…
February 1st, 2010 at 3:59 pm
Reply to DavidS @ 3:54 pm:
Well I’ll let you to your advanced tool use of snacking on ants on a grass stem and the bonono’s to their falling off of perches from heart failure.
When your evolution catches up to the rest of us eating food cooked using electricity let me know and I’ll show you some useful stuff that humans use and do.
February 1st, 2010 at 4:02 pm
Reply to DavidS @ 3:54 pm:
I wiLL stay a miDDle of the road Homo Sapiens Sapiens boet
tOO much specialization, evolution to negate by going backwards
Interesting theories – none the less.
February 1st, 2010 at 4:02 pm
Reply to Ollie @ 3:59 pm: Aha little bonobo
You misunderstood or else you television preprogrammed mind just refuses to see the truth
Why not return to the breast and maybe wax your legs while you’re at it so you look more androgynous…
Read the context again Ollie…
Perhaps a light goes on…. but then again if your programming is looped into a specific mindset… there is nothing we can do for you… it’s like sl;eeping in the Matrix…
Go google “metaphor”
You might learn something amazing!
February 1st, 2010 at 4:03 pm
Reply to Ollie @ 3:59 pm:
hehehe
February 1st, 2010 at 4:12 pm
Reply to DavidS @ 4:02 pm:
“Television preprogrammed”? Let me guess, another metaphor!?
Hehehehe, which is better at pushing buttons, a chimp or a bonobo? That’s me then. Metaphorically speaking that is.
February 3rd, 2010 at 1:01 pm
Deon
It seems you have finally lost it, pity i quite liked the laid-back capetonian – i dunno why you so aggro, seems like you not happy with the education system in oz, not sure what you want me to do about that, no point in fighting the liberals or taking it out on me, afterall its the liberal policies thats allowed the immigration of your family into their great liberal country. Join in.
Reply to fyndraai @ 11:38 pm:
logical as ever, and a calmly well supported point, nevertheless I would argue that the beauty of union is that it allows for multiple ways to skin a cat. I think one should play to their strengths, but SA can play both styles, WP have traditionally opted for a more open running style while the Bulls have preferred the 10-man approach perfected in the 80s thru Buurman van zyl – but anyone that dounts the efficacy of a running flyhalf only needs to look at some of the most successful sides in modern times, especially the australiansm who with Ella and Larkham and even Lynagh produced a string of skilled halfbacks, indeed some would also argue that the best side SA produced in the modern era was with Henri Honiball at flyhalf.
Reply to Boertjie @ 8:02 pm:
at least Boer keeps it honest
Reply to newbokshields @ 8:40 am:
i probably need to be more tolerant on the religion front, but its still worth questioning this, dont mind what ppl believe, but dont force it down others throats. on kids growing up in SA, i think everyone is worried about their kids since time immemorial but it generally seems to come right, if you think SA is bad the competition and pressure put on kids in the UK is ridiculous- a child’s education is very important but there are different types, not just academic, and in any event there are more important things imo.
February 3rd, 2010 at 1:16 pm
Reply to DavidS @ 1:28 pm:
lol, i dunno wtf you going on about the bonobos and cimps for, but its a very interesting topic, the chimps simply moer each other whereas the bonobos bone each other.
February 3rd, 2010 at 1:16 pm
The starnge thing is that liberalism was made possible by the principles and sacrifices of people who were not and did not intend to be…
No metaphor…
February 3rd, 2010 at 1:17 pm
Reply to cab @ 1:16 pm: You need to be a thinker not a sheep to understand it…
February 3rd, 2010 at 1:19 pm
besides you are more of a silberback then chimp.
i reckon i would bliksem both you and deon tho.
February 3rd, 2010 at 1:28 pm
Ja Cabbie you right we worry about kids period. I hinted more at our mindset change when we have kids. We suddenly become more protective and more conservative in our views and even this I think is just the way of progress,
in the same way as a rebellious teenager who questons his past is neccesary because without that spirit we will be stuck as a species.
Yet to become more conservative in your view of the world (and by conservative I do not mean ‘closed off’ or ignorant) probably because durign this time you keep referring back to how you were raised yourself.
And you do this simply because there is no handbook for raising kids. You only get the answers by digging back in the past.
Its all natural in my mind.
Perhaps liberalism as an ideology then is just a ‘teenage phase’ ideology, questionign the past and pushing the boundaries.
So perhaps just as self righteous teenagers seem to become at that age (never wrong), just so is liberalism naturally a righteous ideology?
February 3rd, 2010 at 1:29 pm
In that fight I side with the oke who buys me beer afterward.
February 3rd, 2010 at 1:34 pm
Reply to newbokshields @ 1:28 pm:
yes, they say one becomes more conservative with age and kids, but i just think one realises how fragile and fleeting and random life is – not much one can do about it.
i figure some kids probably need a good flogging, def those little shits in the UK, but others dont need it – just as ppl respond differently. one thing’s for sure if you going to klap a laaitie, whoever does it better make sure he deserves it and is not abusing his power willy nilly. i remember my old man catching one of the head teachers trying to klap me, the guy was eventually sent to a mental asylum, my old man was a pretty quiet guy but he resembled a silverback – that head teacher never came right again – not sure who got the lesson out of that.
February 3rd, 2010 at 1:38 pm
Well studies say intelligence and great civilizations are built on intolerance…
and those that aren’t fall
Like Rome
Like Egypt
Like Britain
Like Greece
Like the USA
February 3rd, 2010 at 1:39 pm
its not a pretty thing seen a grown man bent like that, but suppose the moral of the story is be careful what grass you piss on – not happy the old man got involved, but the other boys thought it was bladdy funny, they all watched the goings on in the car park – never seen a 160kg man move that fast – the teaching concerned was a bit of a sadist but never raised that cane again, owned.
February 3rd, 2010 at 1:40 pm
And shields cab’s little liberal heart and education will make him burst into tears and get in touch with his feminine side before running to his grilfriend and seeking solace from her just because he saw me raise my voice at him before I bliksem him…
He will then expect her to finish the fight for him…
So don’t hold your breath that the beer you will be getting will be of French origin…
February 3rd, 2010 at 1:40 pm
Cab I dont know if the correllation between flogging and conservatism is even true.
If I apply my liberal mind I cannot see how flogging was ever permitted. That same mind tells me that faith is hogwash as my mind simply cannot make sense of it.
Yet in so many cases flogging (to achieve discipline) and faith (to achieve a focussed life based on a strong moral code) works for people!
Yet when faith becomes religion its a bit of a problem just as when flogging becomes abuse.
But just as the world have the freedom of choice NOT to participate in religion, so too should the world have the freedom to send a kid to a school where he gets moered.
Thats true liberalism no?
February 3rd, 2010 at 1:42 pm
She of course will think that strutting up to me with swaying hips and shaking her finger in my face will scare me the way it works in America sitcoms before she has to pick up her teeth from the car park tar while cab sobs uncontrollably in his car wondering where equality went so wrong…
February 3rd, 2010 at 1:43 pm
Reply to DavidS @ 1:38 pm:
i think u been studying your hol again.
the great civilizations at the peak were defined by tolerance, its only when they become intolerant did the decline begin. its like the athenians and the spartans, you okes go on about all the military crap, but wtf did the spartans ever produce – what society would you have preferred to live in?
February 3rd, 2010 at 1:44 pm
Reply to DavidS @ 1:40 pm:
i believe i have to come over to my sister’s wedding at year end, Dawie we should meet for a few rounds, good exercise, no biting tho.
February 3rd, 2010 at 1:46 pm
Reply to newbokshields @ 1:40 pm:
so what do you think the religious have over the secular humanists?
February 3rd, 2010 at 1:47 pm
Cab is just hanging labels Brendan
Conservatives
Hate k–fers, the poor, welfare, state healthcare, women, naughty children who don’t get flogged, women with big mouths, jews, Japanese, Chinese, The ANC, career girls, gays, lesbians, hairy legged chicks, liberals, mixed sport and we love
Braai vleis, cherries that know their place in the kitchen, teachers who moer our kids, the domineee who breathes fire and brimstone, rugby, moering kids, k–fers, kids, women, each other, k–fers and obviously k–fers
It’s very bah bah bah blacksheep…
February 3rd, 2010 at 1:48 pm
ja when u get slapped by a liberal bitch and start begging ‘no mas’, then all your beliefs will be totally confused.
February 3rd, 2010 at 1:48 pm
DavidS perhaps those societies had tolerance (and lots of it) for their OWN kind and not much for others?
Liking your OWN seems also to be ingrianied in human nature and this any country and leader who highlights our US-ness using THEM as a benchmark of what not to be, will have success because people channel their energy in a very specific direction all at once.
Same with religion really. Its nothing more than a tool to get the masses to channel energy in some direction at the same time, which often leads to a coherent society and progress.
Liberalism essentially advocates that society consist of loads of individuals, and then encourages those individuals to pursue their won direction, which spells doom for that cuntry seeing as people MUST pull in the same direction if you want to progress.
Then you have capitalism who through their ad agencies manage to pull people togteher (in their quest to own ipods) even though they seemingly are all ‘individuals’!
February 3rd, 2010 at 1:50 pm
Reply to DavidS @ 1:47 pm:
i quite like many of those things on your list, what label should be used?
look bigotry and intolerance are just backward.
February 3rd, 2010 at 1:52 pm
cab I believe religeous societies have one over secular ones because of what I described above. Secular equates to the individual and religeous is all about the collective.
Today however millions of ‘individuals’ can sit on facebook and support a cause, thereby pulling in the same direction. This changes the rules somewhat.
February 3rd, 2010 at 1:52 pm
Reply to cab @ 1:43 pm: Once Athens opened up its citizenry to non Greeks its decline began and it was overtaken by Macedonia and then Rome….
Athens’ greatness came during the time of Marathon when Greeks said non Greeks were all Barbarians who said Bah bah Bah
Even writers like Aristotle and Socrates were insularly Greek in teaching…
Reply to cab @ 1:44 pm:
Any time
Reply to cab @ 1:46 pm:
No problem except that secular humanists are a non sequitur… they are a description people hang on themselves to show how open minded and ecclectic they are when the truth is they just have their own brand of intolerance…
Like saying
All I cannot tolerate is intolerance or I am only judgmental to judgmental people…
Secular humanists are wont to practice their own brand of intolerance by actively belittling people’s religious beliefs… thus proving that they are also intolerant and not really secular because they discriminate against people’s religious and not really humanist because they judge people on the bais of their spiritual beliefs….
Much like you did with Deon the other night…
February 3rd, 2010 at 1:55 pm
Reply to cab @ 1:48 pm: I never moered one but I have grabbed one by7 the throat and asked her if she wants a klap… her secret weapon was to promptly burst into tears….
The present propblems with Western society began when we raised the individual above the colective..
It is why societies like the Eastern ones which downplay the individual in favour of the collective will succeed Western civilization as the leading civilization inside of fifty years and the West will simply fall like Rome did to the Barbarians… and I suspect so too will its lofty ideal of equality and the interests of the individual above all else.
February 3rd, 2010 at 1:55 pm
Reply to newbokshields @ 1:52 pm:
yes thats interesting, i have a mate who also think the ppl from traditionally catholic or more religious christian countries are warmer than the protestant ones – maybe.
I do think SA has some very good morals, yet despite all these christian morals, we produced apartheid, a terrible system all these christians bought into as you well know.
shit my battery going to run out, cant even insult Dawie.
February 3rd, 2010 at 1:57 pm
I ask this question:
“which is better, the guy who fucking hates Ka**rs but gets up every morning to help at the SPCA shelter, or the uber educated liberal who is not ivolved in any positive physical action?”
Then again the space of liberals is often to just sit on blogs and in forums calming down the conservatives not to take up arms. It creates balance yet the liberal contribution here is not physical.
February 3rd, 2010 at 2:01 pm
Reply to DavidS @ 1:52 pm:
on the athenians, utter nonsense.
on the barney, i will let you report proceeding thereafter.
on intolerance, i am talking about physical intolerance or implied threat thereof to intimidate and oppress views, you can believe whatever you like and i will tell you what i think of it. you simply do not understand these principles, since you were raised an ERT. you going to learn boetie.
February 3rd, 2010 at 2:05 pm
Apartheid in my opinion is exaclty the driving force behind the afrikaner invention/creativity/engineering buzz of years back.
They were told what is right, what is good, what is wrong and what is to be feared. Its very clear guidelines that most followed because the OTHERS were always waiting just outside to screw it all up.
It made people united in fear. And unification is always successful no matter what goal you want to achieve. Pretty much what ANC is doing now except the ANC underplays the idea of PRIDE in propaganda. The Nats were masters in this.
As a social system apartheid was very good for South Africa as a means to progress beyond any nation on the continent. Thats the cold hard fact.
It was a kak moral system. It was horrible for outsiders and it made insiders numb but hell did it achieve economic and structural results!
February 3rd, 2010 at 2:09 pm
ERT’s are aggro but because of their lack of proper nutrition (no money for veg if ciggies and brandy stocks are low) they tend to be smaller than the calmer more cultured Freestate folks.
Then the standard soutpiel Eastrander spends most of his life hiding from the boere ERT’s and this is frail and limp.
I dont even think I can participate in this fight it will just be unfair on you both?
February 3rd, 2010 at 2:13 pm
nou ja laat ek werk. boer ek het binnekort vir jou nuus.
February 3rd, 2010 at 2:16 pm
Reply to newbokshields @ 1:52 pm:
“cab I believe religeous societies have one over secular ones”
Interesting phrase… as here in Aus… it’s the religious societies that are the secular ones… tending to stick together in a rather insular manner in their own areas…
February 3rd, 2010 at 2:26 pm
Reply to newbokshields @ 2:09 pm:
February 3rd, 2010 at 2:30 pm
You guys are way to clever
for me.
LIBERALISM:
1. When the death penalty is
outlawed, but abortions
are on demand and paid for
by the taxpayer (around
900 000 per annum if I’m
not mistaken.
2. When corrupt and incompetent
people get fired with a golden
handshake. Only for the heads of
parastatals this amounted to
R262 million over the last two
years (with the Escom idiot waiting
for his R85 million.)
Or is (2) just cronyism?
February 3rd, 2010 at 2:34 pm
Cab,
although the perception of “manly” behaviour
is more evident in lesser educated cultures,
one should bear in mind
that it is,save for a small percentage,
mostly skin deep.
Like most ideologies.
Among all the young men
that was obliged to do national service
they were put through a stringent selection
process
that resulted in a small percentage
who took to the job.
No diffirent than having a national service
for kooks
and weeding through the average
to arrive ,finally,
with a great chéf.
Among those,in every generation ,
a few leave remarkable legends.
Danie Theron,Neville Methven,Geordie Lillicoe,Simon Haya,Vasily Zaitsev, Colonel Heinz Thorvald
“Life can never seem so real as when it faces extinction”
-U.S Marine Corporal Ron Szpond, Vietnam – 1966
Like the kitchen cleaners,dishwashers,waiters,maitre d,
and common chefs,
live in awe
and in some form,attemptto emulate their perceptions
of those who stand alone.
this is human nature.
The older we get,
living a mundane life,
the more we embellish the things we did
in our time in the kitchen,
for its importance becomes
part of our subconcious.
Hence the stand-in waiter being a doos
for although they have never met
he believes or is led to believe
that indeed the great chéf would condone
and respect
such behaviour.
If the perephiral humanity also buys in
well then you have a culture
orientated towards kooking.
Add religion to the bredie
that gives you justification
and woohoo!
the great chéf can finally get to kook.
But i believe,
from a poorly ,potato peelers’s perspective,
that the great chéf has realised
its not about kooking.
Its about doing what he is ment to do.
For the others,the detail becomes an obsession,
but the great chéf is just content
that he gets to kook.
Frequently i hear of fond memories
for the when-we days.
especially from those who participated
or frequented or was simply there
at any Great Festival.
But for that great chéfs that got to kook
without restraint
there is but one Festival
and life there after
is almost always,
slightly tasteless.
The rarely talk or argue or debate.
They know what matters
and what doesn’t.
February 3rd, 2010 at 2:38 pm
Reply to Duiwel @ 2:34 pm:
They know what matters
and what doesn’t.
=====
And it’s not sausages
and mash or mince pies.
February 3rd, 2010 at 2:40 pm
Reply to Duiwel @ 2:34 pm:
Hey ou driepunt tang
goedgeskryf
kaNNie se ek verstAAn aLLes nie mAAr sal wEEr ‘n pAAr kEEr lEEs!
Reply to Boertjie @ 2:30 pm:
1- agrEE- sEEms to be a global liberl mindset
2- No way can that be a liberal thing
it is cronyism/coRRuption/ political reciprocity what ever
It haPPens right now- haPPened in a leSSer scale and reportive framework pre 94- haPPens/ned under KruDD, Blair, Gysey, Dubya Obama, Stalin, Hitler …..
February 3rd, 2010 at 2:55 pm
Reply to Duiwel @ 2:34 pm:
You’ve obviously never worked in a Michelin starred or equivalent restaurant before…
February 3rd, 2010 at 2:55 pm
Hallo DubbelLOOp
Ja-ja Toppie,
het eendag mash so hard gehad
ek moer gepluk het en dit teen die muur
vasgeplak het bord en all.
N goeie buddy van my van middelburg
steek by die malgeid daarvan aan
en toe die hele A-coy.
92 malletjies.
F-coy se manne van so ietwat mash
en toe spat die kak.
Die onderoffisiere,JL’s sluit deure
en gaan haal mp’,rp’s en range.
Seker van die oomblik
Twintig minute se hollywood
en 14 dae se kak daarna.
February 3rd, 2010 at 3:17 pm
Not at all BiOz,
however i cleaned the odd potato
to be consumed in a small and meaningless gathering
with so little true chéfs
we knewof them by name.
I got to travel as potato peeler
and see some remarkable kitchens
being tolerated by the calvi traveling kitchen.
There i met some other potato peelers
and such ordanary folk
from everywhere
all queing up to take part in a festival.
Qalqilyah ,tuzla were both amazing towns to visit.
This site is as colourful as ruggaworld
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?70927-Longest-Range-Sniper-Kill
February 3rd, 2010 at 3:19 pm
Bear that in mind
when your on your next walkabout
you feel like being watched ,Oz.
February 3rd, 2010 at 3:32 pm
Illustrates the meaningless
for any sadf fan
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?112232-South-African-snipers
February 3rd, 2010 at 3:35 pm
Reply to newbokshields @ 2:09 pm:
no, i am well fed, that langelockshen dawie may have a couple of centimeters on me but i will klap that lank vet frame right out the ropes.
its the fit middleweights like Duiwel who are like pieces of iron and too fast, but the vetgat bullies just get that look on their face when they know they ovrepowered.
hier kom n liberale bitch-slap.
February 3rd, 2010 at 3:38 pm
Spirit of a Sniper ~ Bill Russell
This book is an interesting and entertaining read. The book is published in limited release and is available via direct contact. The book is based on the actual events of a South African sniper in WWII, as written by the subject himself. It is a bit odd in that it is written in the third person, which makes it read more like a novel than historical non-fiction. It is obvious in spots that some content was created to fill in the story, and it may be hard to determine fact from fiction. But that does not detract too much from the book itself. The book is interesting in both its sniping content, which is detailed and appears mostly accurate, and in the history of the South African military involvement in the various African and European campaigns. The Zulu influences are strong throughout the book, but not too much to cause a major distraction and it does offer additional insight to the culture of South Africa. I enjoyed learning about another part of the world and how they employed their snipers, even if history was enhanced by literary freedoms. If you are interested in reading it, you can contact Hendrik van der Schyff via email to order a copy, currently its $15 USD.
February 3rd, 2010 at 3:40 pm
Reply to Duiwel @ 2:34 pm:
yes you say it better than me, i am apparently too well educated or at least i appear to come across that way = but you perhaps say it best.
nou gaan ek vir Dawie klap en dan hom n bier kry = miskien in die ander order.
February 3rd, 2010 at 3:41 pm
cab says:
February 3rd, 2010 at 3:35 pm
hehehe.
Oom Dawie gaan jou dik moer ingelsman
best you do a few blocks
before that encounter.
February 3rd, 2010 at 3:45 pm
Beste is om sy hemp te skeur
laat sy ma hom bliksem
always worked for me.
February 3rd, 2010 at 3:45 pm
Reply to bryce_in_oz @ 2:16 pm:
i think i mean by secular that they dont believe personal beliefs like religion should enter the public or state services such as education, law, goverment, etc.
On the pebble¡bed reactor you are quite right that and the coal=to=oil synthesis was some pretty advanced stuff by dem boere in die old days, but they never invented either technique.
other then thats its been the creepy crawly and a cowboy heart surgeon.
February 3rd, 2010 at 3:46 pm
Reply to cab @ 2:01 pm: Jy kan lekker kak praat Cabberina….
If being liberal and democt=ratic was so cool why did Athens still have slavery and referv to non Greeks as Barbarians
Oh but most of all
Why did they get involved in the Syracusian wars?
And open themselves for conquering by the pure Celtic Macedonians… and then the Romans… as I said
multi-ethnicity leads to decay…
History is replete with the examples
I have not seen you quote any opposites yet… but then again there are none..
February 3rd, 2010 at 3:46 pm
Reply to Duiwel @ 3:41 pm:
lol = ons sal sien, ek sal daarvan hou om te boks vir King George.
February 3rd, 2010 at 3:48 pm
16 May 2007: ISS Today: Politics, Snipers and Dry Cleaners: A Tale of Power and Attempted Murder
Print
DISCLAIMER
16 May 2007: Politics, Snipers and Dry Cleaners: A Tale of Power and Attempted Murder
Many people are suckers for a good spy story: cloak and dagger and behind the scenes thrills where it is easy to tell the good guys from the bad guys and the good guys always win. But out here in the world of non-fiction, the rumblings from within the South African intelligence world sometimes seem more like a B-grade Hong Kong kick-flick than a slick and professional James Bond movie.
The latest in what has been nearly sixty years of politically inspired domestic intelligence charades is what I like to call the “Zuma Dallas Day” probe. Jacob Zuma and intelligence seem to go together like a horse and carriage, the only question is who leads whom? In exile, Zuma ran much of the ANC intelligence apparatus. Nowadays, he seems to be leading his own intelligence branch, with the South African taxpayer picking up the tab for his own mini-private security service.
The Zuma Dallas Day movie would open with a scene of a sniper waiting patiently on a rooftop overlooking a political rally in Durban in 2004. His intended target, Zuma, fails to arrive at the function, however, and the sniper is forced to pack up and go home mission unaccomplished. The sniper is left out in the cold, so to speak, and begins to fear for his own safety as his handler fails to contact him and he fears he is being followed. The next events are a little uncertain but what is known is that, Zuma’s lifelong friend Elias Khumalo has a private meeting with the sniper after the aborted operation. The purpose of the meeting is not clear, but Khumalo is very defensive when the fact that a meeting took place is made public. He claims that this information was deliberately leaked and should only have been made known to the relevant security operatives.
The grim reaper chasing Zuma, however, is a pretty determined fellow and cannot be put off easily. The story line would then split between the Zuma camp beefing up their security systems and the unknown X-force conspiring to have him permanently removed from the South African political scene. But the X-force underestimates the power and influence of ‘the Zuma’, and in 2006 the National Intelligence Agency (NIA) get wind of a foreign intelligence operation to poison the former deputy president. This is shortly after the same intelligence agency uncovers a plot to remove Zuma from power, which is later determined to be a fabricated political conspiracy, known as the e-mail hoax. The NIA, possibly still reeling after the e-mail hoax scandal, tips off Zuma’s personal security units as to the possibility of him being targeted by a foreign intelligence operation.
The attempted poisoning of Zuma, although not as Hollywood as a sniper attack in broad daylight, reads like apartheid style political assassination. Clothes being poisoned at dry cleaners, glasses laced with foreign substances at gala dinners and 24-hour bodyguards to cater for all his dietary requirements. When he travels abroad, it is on commercial airlines, fearing that private airplanes are too easy to target. His security personnel usually fly ahead to secure the accommodation and precincts surrounding the hotel. Furthermore, he does not interact with the South African embassy staff overseas for fear that his movements will be filtered back to the ANC.
Does this really seem like the normal political processes of a democracy, or has South Africa’s past done such irreparable damage to the political and security landscape that fear and distrust have become archetypal features of the South African political scene? There are several disturbing aspects of the Zuma Dallas Day drama that, regardless of the authenticity of any of the attempted assassinations, require closer attention, greater public awareness and vigilance. These include:
The name of the alleged sniper involved in the aborted assassination is known by those close to Zuma and has been leaked to the South African press. There is no indication that he has as yet been apprehended for questioning by the legitimate authorities.
The alleged sniper met with people within the Zuma camp after the aborted assassination. Would it, therefore, be incorrect to assume that they had foreknowledge of the plot? Why were Zuma loyalists meeting with the alleged assassin and not handing him over to the police? This would indicate that the former deputy president has his own security services conducting intelligence and counter-intelligence operations in South Africa.
There is a lack of trust in the national intelligence apparatus and indications of divisions within the intelligence community that hamper the ability of the intelligence agencies to provide accurate intelligence and achieve a high level of integrity in analysis.
There seem to be powerful people, foreign and domestic, who do not want Zuma to become the next president of South Africa.
Zuma has a six-vehicle cavalcade and at least 20 bodyguards all paid for by the state.
As yet, the Zuma Dallas Day story has no clean and neat ending. According to media reports, crime intelligence has been investigating claims that there is a R1 million price on Zuma’s head. Since the latter is a man who seems to be making some very powerful enemies, it is impossible to establish who ‘ordered the hit’ on Zuma. The former deputy president believes, in fact, that there are several assassination plots afoot. Cynical as it may seem, one is forced to ask if this is just another ploy to attract public attention by a media-struck politician or is there any concrete evidence to support his claims?
There are apparently two crime intelligence units investigating the allegations. Some think that this is evidence of the division of the intelligence community along Zuma-Mbeki lines, with one team wanting to capture the alleged sniper and his handler and the other determined to compromise the investigation. The leaking of information to the press could, therefore, be interpreted as the work of the second element trying to sabotage the investigations, force the alleged assassin into hiding and halt the probe. There would have to be high-level involvement in such a plan, or a great deal of power and influence to be able to mobilise an operation for the purposes of sabotaging an investigation in order to cover what must be a critical information trail to the person/s who want Zuma gone.
All that can be said for certain is that South Africa continues to suffer from an apartheid domestic political-security hangover of epidemic proportions. The ANC succession battle has now taken on a new dimension: it has been internationalised and further sensationalised. The cloak and dagger claims have highlighted the climate of fear and distrust that infects the South African political scene. Thirteen years into democracy and there are still whispers of politically motivated assassination. It seems that within the ANC the struggle continues: fought with the same weapons as in the past, though this time the enemies are within, the lines are blurred and alliances are strained.
This piece relied on an article published in the Mail & Guardian on 11 May 2007 entitled Zuma: A sniper was sent to kill me, by Zukile Majova for much of the factual information.
Lauren Hutton: Defence Sector Programme, ISS Tshwane (Pretoria)
February 3rd, 2010 at 3:48 pm
Reply to Duiwel @ 3:17 pm:
So it is true… Afghanistan has been nothing but target practise eh?
February 3rd, 2010 at 3:49 pm
Helen Bamford & Melanie Peters
10 June 2007
——————————————————————————–
Cape Town — A siege that paralysed the heart of the city centre for most of yesterday ended when a police sniper killed a man who had taken his wife and another woman hostage.
The drama played out in Nyoni’s Kraal, a Long Street restaurant. The gunman, a 26-year-old Khayelitsha man, had earlier fired on police and bystanders, injuring two people.
February 3rd, 2010 at 3:52 pm
one-two
one-two
bliksem die kombinasies gaan waai.
en dus net op hierdie spaniaarde poepol wat my hierdie kak PC gegee.
February 3rd, 2010 at 3:52 pm
Its all target pratice to some.
February 3rd, 2010 at 3:53 pm
Reply to Duiwel @ 2:34 pm: Nou praat jy stront en jy weet dit…
History disproves you…
Reply to WiLLem @ 2:40 pm:
Bullkak
In Auschwitz a guard who stole jewelry off corpses was publicly hanged and British ministers who put through funny expenses resigned… over here those in travelgate still have their jobs despite a criminal record… nuff said…
February 3rd, 2010 at 3:54 pm
Reply to DavidS @ 3:46 pm:
ja, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. compare the athenians to the spartans. look what came out of athens – music, poetry, art, mathematics, drama – the only thing that came out of sparta was bloodshed and even then the athenians mostly kept the dummies in check.
February 3rd, 2010 at 3:55 pm
taptaptap.
left-right-left hook.
The third almost always get through.
Unless he can shuffle and weave.
then he willmove the head an inch on your hook
and finish you off
with a short right to the ear.
its all footwork.
February 3rd, 2010 at 3:56 pm
By matthew cox
Published: 16 Jun 10:47 EDT (14:47 GMT) Print | Email
PARIS – Sniper rifles just keep getting bigger these days.
Truvelo Manufacturers of South Africa unveiled its newest precision rifle, the Truvelo 20, at the Eurosatory trade show June 16. The massive, bolt-action rifle can fire a 20mm x 110mm explosive round out to 2,000 meters, said Charl Meiring, chief technical manager for Truvelo.
Related Topics
Europe
Americas
Land Warfare
Large-caliber sniper weapons are commonplace on today’s battlefield. The U.S. military has been using .50-caliber sniper rifles to destroy anti-material targets such as light-skinned vehicles since Operation Desert Storm in 1991.
But what sets the Truvelo 20 apart, aside from its larger caliber, is that it’s three times more accurate than the U.S. military’s .50-caliber rifles currently in use in Iraq and Afghanistan, Meiring said.
“It can be used in both – anti-personnel and anti-material,” at ranges of 1,500 meters to 2,000 meters Meiring said.
Truvelo completed testing on the weapon in March after embarking on the effort two years ago.
The market for these ultra-long-range rifles is only going to grow since both the Marine Corps and the Army announced in May that both services want a new sniper rifle, capable of killing man-sized targets between 1,500 and 1,800 meters.
One drawback to the Truvelo 20, however, is weight: 55 pounds, compared with the 30-pound U.S. military’s .50-caliber sniper rifles.
The Marine Corps-led, long-range sniper rifle program is looking for a weapon that would be comparable in weight to the Marines’ 15-pound M40 series sniper rifle.
Another downside is that the Truvelo 20 doesn’t come cheap. These custom rifles cost about $36,000 each, Truvelo officials said.
February 3rd, 2010 at 3:56 pm
Reply to cab @ 3:45 pm:
As far as the Boere is concerned- especiaLLy from the “projected” point of departure of anglo speaking liberals are concerned:
Despite ruling party changes pre 94- remember that the “Boer” lost his independence on 31 May 1902. What was gained on 31 May 1961 is almost just the right to be blamed- for everything bad – that did transpired under the fuLL term of white minority rule, and to braGG about the gOOde things that also haPPened.
nifty I suPPose
As with SASOL- have a lOOk at the actual enginEEring snd Technical Corps- some interesting reading.
February 3rd, 2010 at 3:59 pm
Afghanistan is a Forever War for the Americans and it cannot be won…
So is Iraq
Nobody has ecver won a war in Afghanistan
Okay the last guy to do so was Alexander but he was special
The 1830’s British eventually gave up (the Brits giving up in colonial days must tell you all you need to know about the Afghans as colonial enemies…) and the USSR at its heyday eventually gtave up…
This is Year 9 for the Yanks
I cannot help but think the blasphemous thought that America is
1. Fighting for Israeli interests
2. Making more enemies who were already just pissed at them for supporting Israel
If you look at the casualties… the Yanks are not making headway… and neither are the Poms, Canadians, Germans or other “allies”
February 3rd, 2010 at 4:00 pm
Reply to Duiwel @ 3:48 pm:
Could have been hired by the other 19 wives when he was courting the 20th?
February 3rd, 2010 at 4:01 pm
Reply to WiLLem @ 3:56 pm:
OO die ander meneer is hier, nou moet ek versigtig trap.
yes, i think you are right about alot of that, the afr has had to carry most of the guilt when the engelse voted also ja after 61 so were just as much to blame.
You okes have a very heavy burden to carry, its not right, but most foreigners group all white saffas as racists if it makes any difference, they dont really think there was a white liberal element.
That SASOL engineering was some very clever stuff, the boere are ingenious folk, pity their efforts are normally focussed on war and machoness.
February 3rd, 2010 at 4:02 pm
Reply to cab @ 3:54 pm: Is the movie 300 about Sparta or Athens?
Truth is lots of Western culture came from both cities
And in the end Sparta lasted longer….
Although picking a fight with Alexander must count as one of the dumbest moves ever… on a par with Pearl Harbour…
February 3rd, 2010 at 4:05 pm
en nou waar is ou Donner? hy raak woes soos ´n poes.
February 3rd, 2010 at 4:06 pm
Reply to Duiwel @ 3:56 pm:
An Aussie weapons company I have trade a few times in the past… insane stuff… certainly no even playing fields anymore…
http://www.metalstorm.com/content/view/73/121/
Check out some of the vids of their rapid-fire outfits…
February 3rd, 2010 at 4:08 pm
Ja-ja,BiOz,
probably a slight shift of
colossal balance
in the harem.
Big tom needed to keep it quiet
from the snuffeltiffies everywhere.
February 3rd, 2010 at 4:09 pm
Reply to cab @ 4:01 pm:
Dig deeper with the pebble bed technology… you don’t have to be a ‘boer’ to be a ground-breaking South African nuclear physicist…
February 3rd, 2010 at 4:09 pm
21 January 2008: South African Mercenary Legislation Enacted
The Prohibition of Mercenary Activities and Regulation of Certain Activities in Country of Armed Conflict Act, 2006 (Act No. 27, 2006) was, after a considerable delay, assented to and signed by President Thabo Mbeki on 12 November 2007. The act replaces the Regulation of Foreign Military Assistance Act, 1998 (Act No. 15 of 1998) and also provides for two amendments to the Criminal Law Amendment Act, 1997 (Act No. 105 of 1997). The Regulations to this Act are still to be promulgated.
The intent of the Act is to prohibit mercenary activity, to regulate the provision of assistance or service of a military or military-related nature in a country of armed conflict, to regulate the enlistment of South African citizens or permanent residents in other armed forces, and to regulate the provision of humanitarian aid in a country of armed conflict. It provides for extra-territorial jurisdiction for the courts of the Republic with regards to certain offences and it provide for penalties for offences related to the Act.
This act is the result of a long process of legislation, which started with an instruction to the Department of Defence emanating from a Cabinet Lekgotla in May 2004 to review the Regulation of Foreign Military Assistance Act (RFMA). This was in response to the concern of Cabinet with the increased participation of SA citizens in conflicts around the world. The events around the growth of mostly American and British private military companies using many South African citizens in places such as Iraq and Afghanistan, as well as the botched Equatorial Guinea attempted coup and its aftermath, highlighted the weaknesses in the RFMA and the need for improved legal provisions to prevent or curb mercenary activity or to provide clear regulation of, and guidelines for, private military and security companies.
In the explanatory memorandum to the Bill, the Minister of Defence argued that “Although the Foreign Military Assistance Act, 1998 (Act No. 15 of 1998), had been in operation for a considerable time, very few prosecutions have been instituted in terms of the Act. In cases where a conviction followed, it mostly followed upon a plea bargain between the prosecution and the accused. Recent events such as the arrest of a number of South African citizens, allegedly involved in a planned coup d’état aimed at the Government of the Equatorial Guinea, both in that country and in Zimbabwe, testify to mercenary activities being undertaken from within the borders of the Republic. The recruitment of South Africans by so-called private military companies from outside the Republic to provide military and security services in areas of armed conflict – such as Iraq – is also continuing. It is evident from the small number of prosecutions and convictions under the Act that there are some deficiencies in the Act, which need to be addressed urgently in order to ensure that the Republic effectively combats mercenary activities and to provide for the regulation of certain forms of assistance in armed conflicts”.
A draft Bill was presented to the Portfolio Committee on Defence by the Department of Defence and the Committee called for submissions by the public in October 2005. Many submissions were received both from within South Africa and abroad and certain of the instances that made submissions were invited to attend public hearings in Parliament by the Committee. Hereafter the Committee entered into vigorous debate on the Bill and made significant changes to the original draft before it was approved by majority vote on 15 August 2006. It was thereafter debated in both the National Assembly and the Council of Provinces and again approved (without amendments) by majority vote. The Bill was ultimately signed into law by the President on 12 November 2007.
It is therefore clear that the Act is the product of much debate and consultation. The manner in which the Portfolio Committee on Defence handled the Bill is to be applauded. So too is the extent to which the Bill was debated in the Committee and the fact that the Committee accepted many of the inputs and amended the Bill accordingly. This does not mean that all concerns had been removed, as demonstrated by the fact that the approval of this Bill in the Committee is one of the few issues that has ever gone to the vote (both the Democratic Alliance and the Freedom Front opposed the Bill). And, of course, many people in the private security arena still remain concerned and critical of the Act.
There can be no argument about the intent of the Act. Mercenary activity should unquestionably be banned outright and regulation is needed to prevent private companies and individuals from executing mercenary activities under the guise of private security or even humanitarian activities. The Act therefore, in section 2, bans mercenary activity outright. In regulating the other activities as mentioned above, the Act provides for application to the National Conventional Arms Control Committee for the rendering of security services and the provision of humanitarian assistance in countries of armed conflict as well as for the enlistment in armed forces (other than the SANDF).
There are still concerns regarding the Act, especially on the issue of the rather wide definition of “Armed Conflict” and the issue of enlistment in foreign armed forces. A country of armed conflict includes one in which conflict between “armed groups” occurs, even when such a country is not declared as such by proclamation of the President. Certainly events in Iraq, Afghanistan and Somalia will fall within the definition, but a more liberal interpretation could also include the Kenya of today, the whole of Sudan (due to the events in Darfur), the whole of the DRC (due to the events in the east) and Uganda, Chad and many more. Engaging on issues of security sector reform in such countries, for example, could therefore constitute an offence. Regarding enlistment in other armed forces, many South Africans currently so employed face the uncertainty of obtaining authority and, if obtained, the possibility of the cancellation thereof under certain circumstances.
It is not the intent of this article to try to analyse the Act to its full extent. It is rather aimed at bringing to the notice of all who may be affected by the Act that it has been promulgated and that they should take cognisance of the Act and forthcoming regulations thereto. Simply criticising the Act and failing to get clarity and adhering to the Act and its regulations, will serve no purpose. It is advised that all South Africans who take part in private security activities outside South Africa, who are enlisted or plan to enlist in a foreign armed forces or are engaged in humanitarian assistance in conflict areas, take legal advise to ensure compliance with the Act. To presuppose the failure of government to effectively administer the Act would be a distinctly unwise course of action.
South Africa is one of the very few countries that has tackled the problem of mercenaries so decisively, and is leading the world on the issue of the regulation of the expanding private security phenomenon. This could provide a blueprint for regional and international regulation in this regard, something that is very necessary when considering the recent “Blackwater” debacle in Iraq.
Len le Roux, Defence Sector Programme, ISS Tshwane (Pretoria)
February 3rd, 2010 at 4:09 pm
Reply to DavidS @ 4:02 pm:
yeah they were great warriors no doubt, tho one wonders how much poetic license was used in creating a tale of 300 soldiers holding off the might of the persian empire.
i would rather have lived in athens, for one thing your lifespan would probably have been alot longer and filled with punani, like Donner worships with his strange religion.
February 3rd, 2010 at 4:10 pm
Reply to bryce_in_oz @ 4:09 pm:
ja but if i´m going to cos shit, i might as well get right in there.
February 3rd, 2010 at 4:22 pm
CAB
I’ve given up on you
Some time ago I posted
Saffa inventions and the
URL to 100.
Dolosse and Pratley Putty
amongst them.
But like a true liberal you
keep on ignoring facts that
don’t fit in with your view.
February 3rd, 2010 at 4:23 pm
On a blustery beach in South Africa’s coastal city of Durban, Dumisani Gumbi is going through a tough fitness programme. He is a platoon sergeant with the South African army. He also has the Aids virus.
Dumisani Gumbi says HIV-positive peacekeepers pose no extra dangers
Since 2001 when he was first diagnosed with the disease, his career prospects and chances of being sent overseas have floundered.
For years tens of thousands of HIV-positive military men and women like him have faced a blanket ban.
A staggering 30% of South African soldiers are infected with the Aids virus. This reality plus a recent test case have forced the South African government to review its policy.
“When we are fighting or when we are doing peacekeeping work, we are not biting the people. We’re just being peacekeepers like anyone else,” Mr Gumbi argues, dismissing fears that deploying soldiers with HIV is likely to increase the spread of the disease.
Voluntary testing?
After a test case brought by one of South Africa’s military unions and the Aids Law Project, the government reviewed the evidence and agreed that in certain circumstances HIV-positive soldiers can be deployed overseas if they pass a battery of some 39 fitness tests.
It’s not as if the flood gates are open for sick people to be deployed
Lieutenant General VJ Ramlakan
“It means people who [have] HIV who are for instance on treatment and who have stabilised and meet minimum requirements will now qualify to be recruited deployed and promoted,” explains S’khumbuzo Maphumulo, the lawyer in the case.
In what has been called a “nuanced policy”, the South African National Defence Force (SANDF) now has to consider each case on its merits and assess the operational requirements of each post.
Aids testing for South African soldiers is voluntary but the reality is that if you refuse to get tested then you will not be deployed.
With greater knowledge of HIV and availability of anti-retroviral drugs – which soldiers receive for free – the South African military has become a world first in effectively removing the blanket ban and setting objective parameters for assessing whether an infected soldiers is fit to be deployed.
Positive peacekeeping
Army surgeon general Lt Gen VJ Ramlakan says that while this is an important step forward, he is cautious.
“It’s not as if the flood gates are open for sick people to be deployed,” he says.
AFRICA HAVE YOUR SAY The question is how you make sure your soldiers are protecting their partners during sex
Hawwa, USA
Send us your comments “The fittest soldiers will go where the task is most demanding. If you are HIV-positive and sick, you will not be on the frontline.
“If you are fit and your CD4 [white blood cells which fight infections] count is above 500 then you may be considered,” he explains.
The army has recently deployed an HIV-positive soldier to Sudan as part of peacekeeping operations in the troubled territory of Darfur.
He is the first but there are many others waiting in the wings.
Soldiers taking part in a recent military exercise seem to back the new Aids policy.
“We’ve had this conversation and it’s not really a problem. We would just like to know who is and who is not infected so we can help them if we need to,” says Maj Talia Thomas.
As part of the exercise, a helicopter evacuated a casualty from the field.
This is precisely the kind of scenario that critics of the new policy worry about.
All soldiers are issued with rubber gloves in their first-aid kits to protect against blood-borne diseases such as hepatitis and HIV.
Infection fears
During the test case, medical experts said there was no evidence of increased risk of transmission in this way but defence analyst Helmoed Roemer-Heitman is not convinced.
He argues it is a massive breach of trust for ordinary soldiers who expect more from their commanders.
South African soldiers seem to welcome the new policy
“What we are doing is exposing them to unnecessary risk. It is bad enough to living under harsh conditions and running the risk of being shot at, we are now exposing them to a situation when one of their comrades could totally inadvertently infect them with a fatal disease,” says Mr Roemer-Heitman.
The reality is that there are already HIV-positive soldiers operating in peacekeeping missions but their status simply is not formally acknowledged because of a lack of testing facilities in many African forces.
The reason South Africa has taken the lead is in part because the health burden of HIV is so huge.
It has had to balance the human rights of individual soldiers with the collective rights of a nation which expects a fit fighting force to protect them.
Professor Lindy Heinecken, who has researched the issue extensively at the University of Stellenbosch, says we are likely to see HIV-positive soldiers in frontline duties but it will depend what line they do and what the military considers “reasonable and justifiable”.
The new policy may pose some tricky diplomatic challenges if troop receiving countries object to having HIV-positive foreign soldiers on their soil.
Eritrea has already made this point and has voiced its concerns to the UN Security Council, asking it to pass a resolution. It argues that its own people’s safety is being compromised.
South Africa has some 3,000 peacekeepers around the continent
But so much has been invested by the South African military in its troops that it cannot afford to lose qualified staff to the disease.
Professor Heinecken points to the fact that “infection rates are highest in the middle ranks and at the operational level” and so the military has had to take a pragmatic approach given its extreme position.
There are some 3,000 South African troops on peacekeeping duties in the Democratic Republic of Congo, Sudan and Burundi.
It is an important source of revenue for the country and puts South Africa in the lead as the continent’s caretaker.
For it to have adopted such a “progressive approach” is all the more remarkable given that South Africa was a country whose leadership until very recently denied the link between HIV and Aids.
February 3rd, 2010 at 4:27 pm
When we are fighting or when we are doing peacekeeping work, we are not biting the people. We’re just being peacekeepers like anyone else,” Mr Gumbi argues, dismissing fears that deploying soldiers with HIV is likely to increase the spread of the disease.
===========
Maybe someone should tell him
that screwing also spreads the
disease.
Then maybe he will stop screwing
the taxpapyers paying his salary.
Nincompoop.
February 3rd, 2010 at 4:41 pm
BiOz,
http://defense-update.com/products/p/pacbot.htm
http://www.iedrobot.com/marcbot/marcbotindex.htm
no ptsd,np pensions,
run by a generation ispired ny the playstation.
February 3rd, 2010 at 4:41 pm
Reply to cab @ 4:09 pm: Nah…
I reckon the Spartans got more punani… In those days poetry didn’t work on chicks but bringing back the head of a couple of hardcore Persians may have meant more
The 300 story was recorded by an Athenian…… The movie is total nonsense….
Reply to Duiwel @ 4:23 pm:
Only on AU missions because the UN bans HIV+ soldiers from being deployed on their missions….
February 3rd, 2010 at 4:43 pm
BiOz,
http://www.foster-miller.com/
February 3rd, 2010 at 4:47 pm
Reply to Boertjie @ 4:22 pm:
Boer, ja i just stirring the pot´n´klein bietjie, its only fair, kyk hoe hard kak hulle op my.
Reply to DavidS @ 4:41 pm:
oh right, you sounds like a charmer, between your caveman approach and Raspo´s trout tickling, it seems there are many ways to skin a cat.
back onto the most important topic, running rugby, its a fallacy that the Bokke have only been about koppestamp – ask oudste and he will surely tell you about all the skillful old backs we produced, hell we had potents halfbacks, centres and wingers, the clash has always been between WP and Bulls, if the Bokke can learn to harness the two – unbeatabkle – but we need a flyhalf who offers an allround game like Carter.
February 3rd, 2010 at 4:50 pm
BiOz
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2007/06/for_years_and_y/
February 3rd, 2010 at 4:51 pm
its why i always preferred morne steyn to francois hougaardt – morne is already exceptional, but for him to rank among the greats, which surely must be his aim such is his talent- he must develop the running aspect of his game which he can do since he played at 12 and is not bangbroek like liefling. peter grant is also good, but neither have the pace of old naas, he was daarem blitzvinnig.
February 3rd, 2010 at 4:52 pm
When we had,when we had….ZZZZ
koppestamp and a good boot
earned us two world cups.
Why fuck with it?
February 3rd, 2010 at 4:54 pm
Reply to Duiwel @ 4:52 pm:
koppestamp is good, but we gonna get found out this year, the french forwards are matching us for intensity and the others will step, i just feel we have the backs to blast these others and we must use this variation, which was perhaps not the case so much in the past – just look at the talent in that WP backline, if their forward get any sort of platform they going to be a handful
February 3rd, 2010 at 4:56 pm
Early days yet for MS
as it is for FS.
Let see if they can develop
and not break ala gaffie and derek
or fall away ala bobby,JvN,HB ect.
February 3rd, 2010 at 4:58 pm
Dude
We started the fashion of Jonah Lomu wings and centres
Ask Oudste
February 3rd, 2010 at 4:59 pm
yes exactly, but MS loks like got good BMT, if he can attack the adv line like grant from time to time, he will add so much more to his own play and the boks.
sorry hougaardt is derek, i like francois houggart at 9, pity he did not stay at 9 for WP then they would have had an increduible backline.
February 3rd, 2010 at 5:00 pm
Reply to DavidS @ 4:58 pm:
we´v never produced a jonah lomu. or a tuigamala. no-one has.
bryan williams had thighs only matched by only danie gerber.
ray mordt and niel burger were the most powerful wingers SA have produced imo.
February 3rd, 2010 at 5:00 pm
Cab,
the frogs have not got a beating in them.
They have no heart
unless you feed them the idea
that they are great
and like the welsh
it creates a greatness.
But the haven’t the stomach for 80min.
After getting some
for twenty
they do what they do best
surrender and start fighting among themselves
looking for someone to blame.
It is embaressing to lose against them.
And it says all about our”profesional commitment”
to be stuffed by these closet homos
year after year.
February 3rd, 2010 at 5:02 pm
Ray mordt.
February 3rd, 2010 at 5:03 pm
Reply to Duiwel @ 5:00 pm:
lol, i also thought so but they have a habit of pumping us at our own game and outblikseming us – its very disconcerting to watch.
February 3rd, 2010 at 5:03 pm
lomu for all his greatness
never scored a try against the bokke.
hehehe.
i like it.
February 3rd, 2010 at 5:05 pm
Reply to Duiwel @ 5:03 pm:
thats vrey true, our boys committed players to him like no other, the only problem was their other players wracked up rcord numbers of tries includuing the little christian cullen who had all that space.
lets not forget the other big kiwi winger john kirwan. ozzie had murdochand herbert who were like brick outhouses.
February 3rd, 2010 at 5:06 pm
just commitment Cab,
everytime without fail
they are more committed.
Bokke would be undefeated if
it was all about talk and showing up.
Commitment
is what drives you forward.
Modern day Bokke
and club sides
with the big dolla
have the comittment of a warsaw whore.
February 3rd, 2010 at 5:08 pm
Reply to Duiwel @ 5:06 pm:
exactly, ´committment´, wtf happens to it on these EOY tours?
the ABs never have a problem with it.
February 3rd, 2010 at 5:16 pm
“1st night in Warsaw 16 of us arrived only got settled into the hotel about 10pm so we just headed around the corner to this which we had already see slated on this site but its was close by. Anywho we were in there havin a great ol laff and wondering what the funk the stories were all about, and in walks this couple.. They sit down opposite us, don’t get a drink or anything and start kissing etc… Next thing ya know the girl (who was so ugly we thought for a minute it was a man) opened her jacket to revel a bra… so then sit sits up on the fellas knee with her back to him and pulls down her zip and tries to get the fella to put his had down her jeans !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They got kicked out then after about 10 minutes of it!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Lets say we seen enough to know she was a woman deep deep down!!! YUCK! They looked like smack heads, deffo off their faces! Then the next day some of my friends went in there for breakfast and another couple walks in an proceeds to actually have sex in the pub :O:O:O Not with trousers down around their ankles but somehow managed it!!!! Missed that one, thank Jesus H. Christ, couldn’t have handled it again”
Grozzy
Ireland
Nov.08.2007
February 3rd, 2010 at 5:19 pm
Cab,
whens the last time the AB
won a world cup?
February 3rd, 2010 at 5:44 pm
Every one packing up to go home.
Quack!Quack!
You ou’s should do some work
as opposed to blogging.
luigat bliksems.
February 3rd, 2010 at 6:54 pm
Gert Muller was even more
powerful than Mordt.
Stuff nightmares were made of.
February 3rd, 2010 at 7:16 pm
Cabbie old Duiwel has been on the wine for too long which means he has a nice little tube around the waist area. Just hit that tube from the top down and you have the Frenchman out.
Dawie instintively would want to do the headbutt manouvre seeing as there might be people around that he wants to impress. I suggest you let him grab your neck and then go for the old knee in the ballas trick.
So thats two down.
I have to apologise but I dont see any way in which you will be able to take on yours truly, the tall, strong, fit, sexy mofo from the Staat.
If yo allow me to give you the forehead smackfinger then we call it a day and go for the beer?
February 3rd, 2010 at 7:22 pm
I dont want to sound clever but this debate is essentially:
1) liberalism vs conservatism
2) Jesus vs God
3) strength in diversity vs strength in unity
deep stuff…
oh and 4) dawie the boere ERT(with Deon hiding behind the Ford Siera in case things get heated) vs Cab the soutpiel ERT (with Ollie hiding behind a mic and a PA system in case Cab gets Dawie to settle this through debate)
cool……
February 3rd, 2010 at 7:24 pm
CAB and don’t laugh
if the ERT farts.
Well-known detractor
in those parts, even
when women get into
a brawl.
February 3rd, 2010 at 8:23 pm
Reply to cab @ 5:00 pm: Moron
Ask the Boer to tell you about something called Tom Von Vollenhoven sometime
Reply to Boertjie @ 7:24 pm:
My fart has been known to stop arguments on its own by simply driving people from my general area… as in about 5 kilometres away… it carries a UN sanctioned chemical weapons grade warning….
Shieldsie
1. political realism vs moronism
2. Not a debate I ever have unless people openly attack my religious beliefs
3. Strength vs weakness
cab getting a
February 4th, 2010 at 9:53 am
Dawie you have to agree that God is a rather conservative bloke, in fact he will never budge on anything.
Jesus on the other hand is almost the perfect liberal.
What then is the holy spirit? Realism?
February 7th, 2010 at 12:38 pm
I came across this – today
“The environmental issue I want to map has been discussed heatedly and unproductively in my community for several months now; the opponents have polarized into unfriendly camps and their exchanges in the online discussion threads are dominated by one-sided, snarky remarks. I doubt that the snarkiness will be improved by letting them map their comments themselves, even if mapping allows them to direct their replies precisely and relevantl y to their opponents’ accusations. By editing out the snarkiness and framing the issue with the strategies and techniques -such as converting closed questions to open ones, and so on–I hope to generate a more useful discussion. I could still do this by rewriting other people’s comments and editing the structure of the map after they have posted, but I worry that they would be offended to see that I came along and excised their best jabs and and diatribes–many of them are used to flaming and ranting on discussion forums and seem pretty attached to their creative expressions. However, if from the outset they understand the commenting process on my site to involve sending a text message to a human being who is going to take it seriously and attempt to add it to the big map, then they might be more inclined to keep a civil tone, and to accept that their contributions will be distilled down to a couple of sentences. “
February 8th, 2010 at 11:09 am
The following is an article that appeared in The Sunday Standard (Botswana) of 24.01.10.
A well known African man called Loose Canon contributes regularly to newspapers.
Haiti and the blacks !
by Loose Canon
24.01.2010 4:23:39 P
I hope black people will learn a lesson from the earthquake that hit Haiti.
If they don’t learn anything from it, then I throw up my hands in despair and give up.
Let’s start with a few basic facts.
Until the earthquake, I never knew there was a place called Haiti. I was taught geography at school but I cannot remember a time when the mistress told us about Haiti. It must have been one of those insignificant countries that we had no reason to know about.
I was fairly good at geography because I knew which country was on which continent. I also knew many capital cities. But as for Haiti I was clueless.
Now the whole world, including myself, knows about Haiti. I heard news of the earthquake on the radio. I wondered where Haiti was and what sort of people lived there.
Finally, when I switched on the television, I was informed that Haiti is an island out in the Caribbean. Television pictures revealed a place populated by black people.
From the non-stop television coverage of the earthquake, I got to learn about the history of Haiti. It was not a good history lesson. It would seem throughout its existence Haiti has suffered a series of natural calamities. In the process it has sunk even deeper into poverty and deprivation.
Like all places populated by black people, Haiti is poor. As I watched the television images, I felt very sorry for that forsaken place. Then I was hit by a thunderbolt.
I wondered what if there were no white people. You see, when the earthquake hit Haiti somebody had to come to its assistance. There had to be a rescue effort. The Haitians who survived of course did their fair bit by digging out their families from the collapsed ramshackle buildings.
But such was the scale of the devastation and the loss of human life that a bigger effort was needed. For that sort of work, you need heavy lifting gear and other sophisticated rescue equipment. I have been following the story of the earthquake keenly. I can attest to the fact that the first people to arrive with sniffer dogs were white crews from all over the world.
The aeroplanes that set off carrying water and food were from white countries. Not only that, the teams of volunteer doctors that I saw on television comprised white people from across the world. As the sniffer dogs went into action, the organized rescue teams that carried the stretchers were made up of white people.
It was announced that a mobile hospital was on the way. It was coming from a white country. For all intents and purposes in the aftermath of the earthquake, Haiti was literally swarming with white people. They had all arrived to save the poor blacks. And the locals were so happy to see them. Granted there were teams from the Orient such as the Chinese and Japanese. They too had quickly left their homes and families to go and assist the stricken people of Haiti.
It is obvious to everyone that this was a devastating earthquake and the work to repair Haiti and return it to a modicum of normalcy will take many years. Somebody had to commit funds to this effort. Most of the countries that have committed funds to aid the recovery are white. In fact, it would seem the whites are running the show in Haiti.
What is my point?
My point is that ever since Haiti was hit by the earthquake I have not seen any of my folks from Africa. Unless the television cameras deliberately ignored them, I never saw a rescue team from my motherland. Nor did I see any sniffer dogs from down here.
Heck, I never saw a single traditional doctor busy divining where to find people buried under the rubble.
Haiti is a land of black people. I would have expected the place to be swarming with black people helping their own. They were nowhere to be seen. I never saw any ships from black countries pulling into the harbour.
As the air traffic circled above the small airport, none of the planes was reported as coming from Africa. The blacks were nowhere to be found. They issued tepid statements of condolence to the people of Haiti and a few of the African countries donated small amounts of cash.
Granted that was better than nothing. But I must say I was disappointed. I was sad because the blacks did not behave as I had expected. You see, for far too long black countries have been insolent to the point of being abusive. They have a tendency of insulting the white man and telling him to keep out of their countries. In Fact, black people have the temerity to tell white people they can perfectly survive on their own.
So I had expected the black countries to be consistent and behave true to form. Why didn’t black countries tell white countries to stay away from Haiti because we were quite capable of leading the rescue effort? We should have insulted them as we often do at international forums.
There, our countries insult white countries and accuse them of imperialism and neo colonialism. I was extremely disappointed when our countries failed to accuse white people of practicing imperialism and neo colonialism by coming to rescue the blacks of Haiti.
We should have told them we have better sniffer dogs that have been taught only to rescue black people. We should have told their ships to stay away and their planes not to overfly Haiti because we were up to the job with our own ships and aeroplanes.
We should have brought in our traditional food instead of the strange rations the Haitians are not accustomed to.
I am so disappointed by the black leaders that I hope never to hear them again bleating about how bad white people are. The earthquake in Haiti was the most opportune time to show the whites, once and for all, that we don’t need them.
From now onwards, I want black leaders to shut up and never accuse ever white people of being bad. I am sick and tired of big words such as imperialism and neo colonialism which are unable to rescue victims of the earthquake.
I hope this is not the last earthquake that hits a black country. I want the next one to specifically hit the residence of Old Man in Harare. Then we will see if he will abuse the white crew coming to rescue him and Pretty Face!
February 8th, 2010 at 11:30 am
Reply to Sipho @ 11:09 am:
Try and print this in any
Saffa paper and you will
be reported to the Human
Rights Commission for
hate speech, racism etc.
February 8th, 2010 at 1:28 pm
Reply to Sipho @ 11:09 am:
But what old Loose Cannon does not get, and he and his ilk will never get, is that the ppl that helped the haitians did so voluntarily out of a sense of common humanatiran empathy.
They saw a human tragedy, not black and white. Rather families that had been decimated. The same for the Tsunami. Some ppl are just nice. Some ppl just want to help, they dont want to sit back and say look at those blacks who deserve it. The ppl that do the latter are a waste of space and pretty much exactly like the old apartheid south africa who would never have dreamt of sending resources to help the haitians because they say them as ‘blacks’ rather than ppl, many of them still do.
But it is the liberal countries who’ve not only amasses wealth throught their fair-minded cultures, but also the empathy to identify with other human beings in need, rather than looking at the colour of their skin.
I doubt very much whether that piece could or would be tried for hate speech in modern SA, since there is a proper constitution which allows crud like that to be published, unlike in the old days. However, luckily since we do now have freedoms that did not exist before, it allows ppl to say that the piece is an embaressment to the writer.
February 8th, 2010 at 1:35 pm
The aid effort was all that was good about humanity, it was from ppl of all different cultures around the world.
It has absolutely nothing to do with colonialism or imperialism, and in fact, just ask the Boer what he thought of imperialism since he was one of the many to be oppressed. He was not top of the food chain in SA that i can assure you. After the war, the national party started off as a communist party trying to protect afr interests cos they were dirt poor and felt downtroddern by the British.
The NP and ANC have far more in common then they’ve ever realised.
February 8th, 2010 at 1:48 pm
Reply to cab @ 1:28 pm: Loose canon is black you dumb libtard… Go check his byline in the paper git…
And you have totally missed out what the writer is saying in calssic newspeak gymnastics… the guy is saying no African nations helped (not true by the way but being such a kneejerk liberal I didn’t think you’d go research yoyr facts first)
have you yet figured out how haiti became independent? Still not… not unexpected… it doesn’t fit in with your “realpolitik” worldview…. fool
The tsunami was a continental catastrophe… let’s rather compare truth with truth
How many people were assisting with the Italian earthquake?
Italian earthquake you ask… yes go google it… Your black Prez donated USD50000… man what a upright nigga….
What about the Iowa blizzard… dunno about that do you… again… aw shucks it war the white folks….
Liberals amassed wealth
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Wait
Let me catch my breath
Oh no
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
I laugh in your face…..
There were no liberals when Western European and America and Canada became rich retardo…. they wer steadfast conservative racist culturally exclusive religiously intolerant zealots when they became rich countries…. then you liberal retards stepped in… maybe do some homework before talking excrement…
And that last bit
Stop talking rubbish…
Maybe go look at the Human Rights Tribunal findings and see what they have called ahte speech….. isiot…
A journo who said without whites blacks would still be living in pastoral bliss was found guilty of hate speech… and if you look at the Canadian Equivalent, they, like their South African counterpart, have found that …. get this liberalism….. “truth is not a defence against a charge of hate speech”
Go do some research cab… you’re making an idiot of yourself…
ps. Loose Canon also once said that Zuma should chase white men into the sea and give all the black men a white woman… Do you regard that as hate speech…. of no worries… he is black… so no hate speech….
February 8th, 2010 at 1:49 pm
Reply to cab @ 1:35 pm: The aid effort was all about what is good about WHITE HUMANITY idiot….
Did you not read…
February 8th, 2010 at 1:54 pm
Reply to DavidS @ 1:48 pm:
what african nation has the money to help?
its not me that misses the point, its you and loose cannon you cretin.
the only one that needs to do research is yourself, your very own NP started off with communist, not even socialistic, underpinnings – cos you were not the fittest. The Brits held you down, just as you held the black man down, but the worst of it is you seem to have forgotten your very own history.
History repeats itself, the majority afr working class have not eventually took power and somehow forgot their roots, preferring instead to fight communism when they became the haves.
Go read your history, its all there. Tho not the rot you were spoonfed on.
February 8th, 2010 at 1:56 pm
the japanese and chinese are not white and many others including the hugely succesful brazilian rescue teams, only an absolute retard what start looking for White and Black in this.
you are exactly that.
February 8th, 2010 at 2:03 pm
Reply to cab @ 1:54 pm: I was up and ruling inside of ten years after the Brits defeated us moron…
It’s after inheriting a war ravaged nation…
Blacks inherited an industrialized nation and screwed it up…. like they always do
Equatorial Guinnea has a mean income GDP of USD9000 pppa
They sent fokol
Lithuania which has a lower PVGDP sent a rescue team….
Private companies in SA sent rescue teams….
There is nothing that prohibits people from sending private rescue teams….nothing…
Cab your arguments are like swiss cheese
Full of holes…
February 8th, 2010 at 2:04 pm
Reply to cab @ 1:56 pm: Only an idiot wouldn’t see the patterns….
Have you read what Haitians did to their colonial masters yet?
February 8th, 2010 at 2:07 pm
You’re like those morons who can’t see that American FBI crime statistics show 10% population is black, 5% black male… and 40% violent crimes are committed by black males doesn’t show a racial pattern….
February 8th, 2010 at 2:14 pm
Reply to DavidS @ 2:03 pm:
The Brits f’cked you and your forefathers up, every one of them, the dutch were an utter joke, the french a pizzle and the germans got bashed twice badly despite their efforts. The boers were defeated too when the Brits got serious, which is why they ruled SA, SA was a dominion. So so much for your survival of the fittest ideas, you clearly were not, nor have ever been.
Moroever, your and loose cannon’s facts are not even correct, a quick search of the internet shows SA has sent medical teams and personnel and some african countries have contributed millions despite their own problems.
But there are some ppl in the world who dont really care about black and white, they know they have enough money and can afford to help others, i can assure you one thing is for sure, not a single cent of your or loose cannons money will be going to help – so you should rather just shut up, since you know nothing of these things.
February 8th, 2010 at 2:25 pm
Reply to cab @ 2:14 pm:
The boers were defeated too when the Brits got serious,
======
Yes, it took them 450 000 soldiers
to fight 50 000.
It also took murdering 28 000 women
and children and shipping thousands
of men to POW camps around the world.
And burning down thousands of
hectare veld, homesteads and
killing livestock, letting them
rot away on the veld.
Not much there to be proud of,
is there?
February 8th, 2010 at 2:28 pm
Reply to Boertjie @ 2:25 pm:
DaviDS is going on about superiority again, i am saying the british never surrendered, it was the Boer who first ran off after the great trek and then Oom Paul Kruger finally surrendered cap in hand to the British where the afr was brought to hell and subjugated.
Wtf would anyone want to rehash this superiority crap, esp a downtrodden ppl is beyond me, i would think the afr can only sympathise with the black man.
February 8th, 2010 at 2:29 pm
Reply to Boertjie @ 2:25 pm:
DaviDS is going on about superiority again, i am saying the british never surrendered, it was the Boer who first ran off after the great trek and then Oom Paul Kruger finally surrendered cap in hand to the British where the afr was brought to heel and subjugated.
Wtf would anyone want to rehash this superiority crap, esp a downtrodden ppl is beyond me, i would think the afr can only sympathise with the black man.
February 8th, 2010 at 2:43 pm
crime is related to poverty and a host of other factors including a feeling of powerlessness having been oppressed for generations, a black man is not born with a gene that makes him inherently more violent – actually sometimes i do wonder with some of you ppl and this is the so-called educated, god help us.
February 9th, 2010 at 2:52 am
Dawie,
I don’t know why you even try to debate with ashtray aka cab. Typical liberal lefty, he has no conscience and is incapable of showing empathy or sympathy. Why do you think they don’t want kids to experience emotions or feelings? That is the first step of being braindead just like them.
They have no backbone so they need walking dead who will not question them.
February 9th, 2010 at 10:32 am
Reply to Deon @ 2:52 am: In another forum I frequent one can hand out eputatuion points if you are impressed with posts of a poster… I wish I could give you reputational points for that Deon
Well said…
Cab is an airhead who believes what the newspaper opinion pages say is God’s own truth….
Reply to cab @ 2:43 pm:
BTW moron
If crime is related to poverty explain why India’s poorest states and cities and Bangladesh have such low crime rates
No bugger off and do some more reading before talking crap…
Reply to cab @ 2:14 pm:
Two things – one Britain won the war but lost the eventual battle… why … because the Boere got both colonies and a republic …. catch a flying jumping leapoing wakeup smack before you talk shit cab
Second the SA rescue teams… get this …. were .. spell this out clarly because you obviously do not read P R I V A T E rescue teams from Netcare 911 and Discovery Health the Gift of the Givers group is a P R I V A T E M U S L I M Charity not government sponsored and places like that.. ps… which in any case is the opposite of what you said – that was the point wasn’t it… that if private companies can sponsor and support rescue efforts from Africa why can’t African governments… and of course neatly sidestep the Equatorial Guinea example… ypical… you’re such a stereotype aren’t you cabbie
Reply to cab @ 2:28 pm:
Paul Kruger never surrendered idiot.
The Boers like everyone else in history lost a battle but like I said… by 1910 we had retaken government… not only the republics we lost but two British colonies as well so who lost doos…
Cab if you’re going to try and debate at least do two things
1. Try not to keep skipping around changing the subject to show how stupid you are
3. ACTUALLY do some reading of history by real historians instead of rehashing what the first Wikipedia entry you googled tells you.
Actually looking at Boertjie’s post I wonder if like Germany to Israel, Britain should not be paying compensation for our Holocaust… in fact I think that is a supwerb idea.
Britain should be forced to pay compensation to us Boers for the losses we suffered in our Holocaust.
We will from now talk of the Boer Holocaust.
In fact we should make laws like Germany where, if people like you trivialize a Holocaust, you can be jailed… in fact in the EU it is a crime already so if you belittle it you could be looking at five years fo being some big violent Turk’s girlfriend for belittling the Boer Holocaust.
On both sides of my family we lost greatly so I think I deserve to be compensated for the Boer Holocaust… in fact all Boers do.
I demand we have a day to remember the Boer Holocaust.
Please trivialize this genocuide cab so I can lay a complaint of trivializing genocide against you… I beg you…. nothing would give me greater pleasure than knowing that some criminal of a race you tolerate is ripping our clenched buttock cheeks apart in the ultimate display of animal like intolerance…
February 9th, 2010 at 1:26 pm
Hey cab
Is this a liberal’s idea of tolerance?
http://www.forum09.faithfreedom.org/…php?f=4&t=5749
A Christian teacher told today how he lost his job after complaining that Muslim pupils as young as eight hailed the September 11 hijackers as ‘heroes’.
Nicholas Kafouris said he was forced from his £30,000-a-year post because he would not tolerate the ‘racist’ and ‘anti-Semitic’ behaviour of children.
He said the predominantly Muslim youngsters openly praised Islamic extremists in class, and hailed the terrorists of the 2001 atrocities as ‘martyrs’.
Mr Kafouris, 40, told how one pupil said to him, ‘Don’t touch me, you’re a Christian’, when the teacher accidentally brushed against him with his arm.
Others said, ‘We want to be Islamic bombers when we grow up’, and ‘the Christians and Jews are our enemies, you too because you’re a Christian’, he added.
Mr Kafouris, who had taught at Bigland Green Primary School, in Tower Hamlets, East London, for 12 years, said there was a change in attitude of pupils at the school – where the majority of pupils are Muslim – after the World Trade Center attacks.
According to the most recent Ofsted report ‘almost all’ the 465 pupils at the school are from ethnic minorities and a vast proportion do not have English as their first language.
Mr Kafouris, a Greek Cypriot, said pupils told him, ‘We hate the Christians’ and, ‘We hate the Jews’, despite his attempts to stop them.
The teacher is now suing his former school, the headteacher, and the assistant head for racial discrimination after they failed to take action about the comments made by pupils to him.
He had filled out a ‘Racist Incident Reporting Sheet’ but claimed the headteacher Jill Hankey dismissed his concerns.
In a statement submitted to the Central London Employment Tribunal he said: ‘Miss Hankey proceeded to excuse and justify the pupil’s behaviour, conduct and remarks to me as if I had no right to be offended by the child’s remarks and conduct.
Amongst Miss Hankey’s justifications for the child’s remarks, she said: ‘If the child was older, say 15, I might take it more seriously, he’s only nine, he’s only doing it to wind you up.’
He added: ‘I felt the head’s behaviour and conduct towards me amounted to direct religious discrimination against me which I considered most offensive.
‘I was intimidated in the way she spoke to me which indicated, “Don’t come back with such issues again”.’
Mr Kafouris said the comments became more frequent after nothing was done by Miss Hankey after the initial incidents.
He said: ‘In late November and December 2006 a number of unacceptable and blunt racist, anti-Semitic and anti-Christian remarks were being made by various children in Year 4 where I taught, such as, ‘We want to be Islamic bombers when we grow up”,
“The twin tower bombers are heroes and martyrs”, “We hate the Jews”, “We hate the Christians”, “The Christians and Jews are our enemies, you too because you’re a Christian” – directed to me personally.
‘Some children were expressing delight at the death and killing of people of other cultures and religions: In the last week of November 2006 a child was talking about stabbing another child and I told him this was dangerous talk and that a lawyer had recently been stabbed by teenagers; his reply was:, “I’m glad that man died”, ‘Why?’ I asked. “Because he’s a Christian and English and we’re Muslim”.’
During a religious education lesson about Jonah and the whale, he claims one of the pupils asked if Jonah was a Jew, before shouting: ‘I hate the Jews, they’re our enemies.’
Mr Kafouris said he again tried to speak to the headteacher about it.
He said: ‘The head’s response was hostile and offensive again. The very first thing she said to me was: “Oh you again! You’re the only teacher that reports these things! Nobody else does!”.
‘Four times she repeated: “It’s because of your lack of discipline that they’re saying these things”.’
Mr Kafouris was signed off with stress by his GP at the end of February 2007 after the assistant headteacher, Margaret Coleman, warned him not to challenge the pupils in class about their remarks.
He says the lack of support from the school has made him clinically depressed and unable to work.
His case against Tower Hamlets Borough Council, Miss Hankey, Miss Coleman and Bigland Green School opened today.
Former pupils of the school will give evidence.
The case continues and is expected to last for 11 days.
http://www.faithfreedom.org/
http://www.islam-watch.org/
http://www.prophetofdoom.net/
http://www.jihadwatch.org/
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://occidentalsoapbox.blogspot.com/
http://occidentalsoapbox.blogspot.co…-crusades.html
http://97.74.65.51/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=28953
Islam is the greatest killer of all time, worse than Christianity, fascism or communism:
“Jihad destroyed a Christian Middle East and a Christian North Africa. Soon it was the fate of the Persian Zoroastrian and the Hindu to be the victims of jihad. The history of political Islam is the destruction of Christianity in the Middle East, Egypt, Turkey and North Africa. Half of Christianity was lost. Before Islam, North Africa was the southern part of Europe (part of the Roman Empire). Around 60 million Christians were slaughtered during the jihadic conquest. Half of the glorious Hindu civilization was annihilated and 80 million Hindus killed. The first Western Buddhists were the Greeks descended from Alexander the Great’s army in what is now Afghanistan. Jihad destroyed all of Buddhism along the silk route. About 10 million Buddhists died. The conquest of Buddhism is the practical result of pacifism. Zoroastrianism was eliminated from Persia. The Jews became permanent dhimmis throughout Islam. In Africa over 120 million Christians and animists have died over the last 1400 years of jihad. Approximately 270 million nonbelievers died over the last 1400 years for the glory of political Islam. These are the Tears of Jihad which are not taught in any school.”
http://markhumphrys.com/islam.killings.html
February 9th, 2010 at 2:45 pm
Reply to Deon @ 2:52 am:
incapable of showing empathy? LMAO!! you ppl are absolutely skoon bedondered in the kop, please show me exactly what sympathy old Groot Kanon and Sipho (aka Dawie) are trying to engender.
What sympathy, you both bladdy fools man.
I tell you what you explain what you think the message of the writer is in the Haitian piece, go on.
The liberals have plenty of backbone, they;re the one;s who voted nee, and who were incarcerated for their troubles, while you lot were living off the backs of others.
February 9th, 2010 at 3:05 pm
Dawie please stop talking shit, the Boers already had the republics, they won nothing, except that these republics become colonies of the british empire.
I mean the Brits came right in and simply took sovereignty over the afr republics right from right under your noses, much as the afr had done to local black tribes before, and there was not a damn thing that could be done about it – who do you think made all the money out of freestate and joburg mines? The british mining magnates, governors and rand lords – thats why the Boers were so the hell-in.
They could have crushed you easily, more men, more technology and an empire that ruled all.
February 9th, 2010 at 3:37 pm
i mean the Boers never even fought proper battles, it was all hit and run guerilla stuff – there was no ways they could stand up to the British, who’d bashed all for centuries.
You want to talk of superiority, its fine for you lot to talk of whites over blacks, but as soon as you get some brit superiority over your backward japies – then all you todgers get all defensive – thats apparently a no-no.
bullshit, if we going to discuss superiority, lets do it proper and i aint going nowhere if you dont want me to. its just you lot cant stomach what comes out my mouth and i feel sorry in offending your other afr readership who dont deserve any of this vitriol.
wtf has the afr had any superiority in anything? english is the linga franca of the modern world, a little old island infinitely smaller than SA conquers the world. thats superiority. Your poets are kak, your universities are upstarts and kak and your journalism is compliant and kak. You’ve no military record to speak of. Even rugby, our player numbers were far higher than any other country where it was treated as a religion and we still barely snuck thru. The english, french and ozzies have other sports far more popular. We never win anything at the olympics. I mean every culture around the world is know for something, the french have their cuisine and wines and art and literature, exporting dumas and molier – ffs we have boerewors, sarel seemonster and wielie walie.
In fact, the only legacy the afr culture has contributed on the world stage is Apartheid. Its all about the size of ponds and the afr pond is nothing more than a backwater puddle in threat of drying out.
February 9th, 2010 at 5:37 pm
Also biltong, beskuit and boboti.
Sorry stole that last one from the ’slams.
Kakpraat in sirkels rondom jou eie gat!
Is there another culture that can beat us in that?
Thing is though, a culture is not a person. Neither is a nation, a country or a race.
The only thing anyone should ever be proud (or ashamed) of is the things he has done himself.
Unless you are the original inventor of western civilization. Don’t take credit (or guilt) for it.
Unless you have suffered a personal loss in a concentration camp. Stop griping about it.
If you have, go file a claim in a British court. If anyone takes your seriously, you should thank liberalism for it.
February 9th, 2010 at 5:42 pm
Reply to DavidS @ 1:26 pm:
Dude… don’t waste your time providing arguments and then facts to back them up etc… ingnorant liberals ignore them… they cannot see… a bit like me trying to talk a junkie out of another hit…
February 9th, 2010 at 5:46 pm
Reply to fyndraai @ 5:37 pm:
en dus die waarheid, now i am not going to respond to anymore,
Dawie, rather just spit out what you have to say, rather than beating around the bush with the haitians, what actually is it you are drawing our attention to here, cos i must be very dom in trying to work out what you or groot kannon or sipho mtwetwe are tring to say.
February 9th, 2010 at 5:47 pm
The irony of this thread Cabbo… is I don’t agree with parts of what Dawie rants on about… but… here’s the irony… take it for what it’s worth… Skopskiet’s past ramblings make more sense than you on this thread…
But methinks you are just ‘baiting for the sake of baiting’ and enjoying the niggle…
February 9th, 2010 at 5:58 pm
Reply to bryce_in_oz @ 5:47 pm:
how so Brycie, what the hell is he trying to say about the haitians?
i think he;s doing the baiting – just when you think this thread is all done and dusted, bang, he leaves another clanger for our consideration.
seriously, please explain to me what he (Sipho) and groot kannon is trying to say about the haitians?
February 9th, 2010 at 6:20 pm
my 1-upmaship focussing of the pseudo-inferiority of the afr is embaressing bullshit propaganda, but i know this.
i do it purposefully cos its exactly what they and every bigot has done since the beginning of time in trying to explain why whites are somehow better and why every african state is failed.
the cultures of SA, including the afrikaner, engelse and black folk all contribute to a very lively amalgamation of cultures, which is doing pretty well imo all things considered. for what its worth, i prefer many aspects of the afr culture to the engelse, but when ppl start talking of all this black inferiority, it just sets me off – so i figure whats good for the goose is good for the gander.
anyway perhaps its time for the rugby to start, cos this other crap is just nonsense, seems the only one getting wounde-up is me.
February 9th, 2010 at 6:39 pm
Reply to cab @ 2:45 pm: Liar…. no references…
Let me spell the blasphemy out…
BLACK PEOPLE CANNOT TAKE CARE OF THEMSELVES….
It’s a black oke saying it….
Draw your own conclusions….
If you are capable of thinking without having a newspaper tell you.
Liberals only came on the scene once real people had done the thinking and development. Liberal thinking of the type you are afflicted with is a result of the post WW2 Baby Boomer generation…. they have done noting courageous.
If you were intelligent you would be able to draw several parallels between Western Europe and vulagarizing West…. Funny that Western decline started under liberal rule….
Maybe not so funny…
Reply to cab @ 3:05 pm:
Wrong again cab
They had them… lost them… won them back…. lost them again… and then won them and the two British colonies at the ballot box and wion proper…. in the end…. YOU go read up again moron
You’re making such a twat of yourself because of your ignorance cab… you’re pathetically easy to prove wrong over and over and over and over and over
Reply to cab @ 3:37 pm:
You know one day when you have a brain you may be able to debate history with me…. until then…. stick to being an airhead liberal…. If you took the time to read you will actually see that the Boers won plenty…. but as Boer pointed out defeat was a foregone conclusion …. like Iraq vs the US….
If defeating the Boers makes you proud…..
wtf has the afr had any superiority in anything? english is the linga franca of the modern world, a little old island infinitely smaller than SA conquers the world. thats superiority. Your poets are kak, your universities are upstarts and kak and your journalism is compliant and kak. You’ve no military record to speak of. Even rugby, our player numbers were far higher than any other country where it was treated as a religion and we still barely snuck thru. The english, french and ozzies have other sports far more popular. We never win anything at the olympics. I mean every culture around the world is know for something, the french have their cuisine and wines and art and literature, exporting dumas and molier – ffs we have boerewors, sarel seemonster and wielie walie.
Once you a brain and you have taken some toilet paper and wiped the kak you typed from your fingers you can come back and discuss…. I see YET again ignoring what Boer has said twice to you already…. you’re a bit pathetic really…. but one can understand… you have no culture… no identity… noa piece of cattle shit floating down a bilharzia infested river…. I feel sorry for you… life must be difficult amongst intelligent people… although I suspect you don’t know any aside from those on this website…. and what you read in online papers little sheeple.
Reply to fyndraai @ 5:37 pm:
Dude
Two things
1. I am part of Western Civilization… I am proud to have been part of it….
2. Not me personally…. but my family DEFINITELY DID SUFFER personal losses in the Anglo Boer war…
And as far as I know… that is the way the apartheid and Holocaust law suits work…. after all you cannot sue on behalf of people who are dead…..
Actually if I get taken seriously it will be the opposite of liberalism….
Reply to cab @ 5:46 pm:
I keep doing it and you close your eyes cabbo…
I did see that you said nothingh about the oke who got dismissed because he was ticked off that Muslims said the 911 killers were genocidal maniacs…
Brilliant
Thanks for proving me right…
You lose…
February 9th, 2010 at 6:46 pm
the cultures of SA, including the afrikaner, engelse and black folk all contribute to a very lively amalgamation of cultures, which is doing pretty well imo all things considered.
Pretty we;; meaning that it’s okay that life expectancy has dropped by 20 years, 10% of people are HIV positive and SA is one of the most criminal infested places in the world…
Well done cabbie…
February 9th, 2010 at 6:46 pm
Reply to DavidS @ 6:39 pm:
EXACTLY as I thought, i have had you spot on all along, exactly to a T, you have just confirmed it.
how do you know what colour loose cannon is?
if he is black and truly believes that nonsense then he is as dom and indoctrinated as you, but i suspect he’s a winde-up.
As for the boer war history, I know it very well, but like you I have taken haslf-truths and distorted them to fit my agenda, the difference is I know what i am doing and in so doing i’ve tried to show you what u doing – but its clearly gone clean over your top, or to the sides, a real doosra so to speak…
If you have an argument to make and want to keep it civil then do so by all means, but if you take an inflammatory racist stand and your ego gets pelted in the process, dont come a crying about personal attacks and ad hominems, etc.
February 9th, 2010 at 6:51 pm
Reply to DavidS @ 6:46 pm:
my take on it is that you are bitter, you like many others cannot handle it, you cant handle the crime and deep down you cant handle a black face in charge since you actuaally do seem to think they are inferior – its not something i can really associate with.
The thing is if you despise the country and its leadership so, why dont you just get out and leave?
February 9th, 2010 at 7:11 pm
“BLACK PEOPLE CANNOT TAKE CARE OF THEMSELVES”
this was it, the piece de resistance, the bit where i was acused of not understanding what was being said, i understood exactly what was being said and by whom.
i mean what total and utter shite, racist bigot superiority – nothing less.
you know if there was something new in these bigotted arguments, i might actually be surprised since it would indicate some sort of intelligence, some original thought, but the only thing that is suprising is how you are all indoctrinated with the same old horseshit, its almost like a kursus was provided, astounding, really.
konfyt en k*****s, nothing changes, ne?
February 9th, 2010 at 7:12 pm
Reply to cab @ 6:51 pm:
Little snippet I saved for you:
Die skrywer R.W. Johnson het in sy boek South Africa’s Brave New World daarop gewys dat Suid-Afrika teen 1976 besig was om sy geskiedenis van slawerny en kolonialisme af te skud en ’n suksesvolle, moderne staat te word.
Die ekonomie was die 18de grootste ter wêreld en dit was die 15de grootste handelsland.
Dertig jaar later het dit na onderskeidelik 28ste en 37ste geval. Die val sedert 1994 is so groot dat dit nie geïgnoreer kan word nie.
Pity we could not build on that.
In fact, everything that was
achieved has been or is being
broken down.
It seems that black people in fact
cannot care for themselves.
February 9th, 2010 at 7:15 pm
next you#ll be lining up some poor old swaarte, 95 in the shade who will tell us all hoe dinge beter onder apartheid werklik was.
what kak, the worst of the lot is you actually believe it.
February 9th, 2010 at 7:21 pm
Reply to DavidS @ 6:39 pm:
1. Rather be proud only of the contributions you are making. For the rest be glad, fortunate, blessed….
2. I had a grandfather who spent some time in a camp. He lost a number of sisters and carried a grudge and some anger. For myself it’s just history.
History, both the glory and the guilt, belongs to everybody.
February 9th, 2010 at 7:23 pm
Reply to Boertjie @ 7:12 pm:
nee Boer, ‘n paar dinge daar.
SA was succesful, but it was based on a short-term selfish outlook that could only end in one way, revolution, the SA economy was based on its mines more importantly, a massive cheap slave labour force to mine them – in fact central to apartheid was the workforce and ironically central to its end where the trade unions which crippled the SA economy.
The damage done was by those in power wanting to hang onto an untenable situation until the hate swelled and swelled, resulting in the crime today…why do u think they burnt down their schools, they wanted nothing, not a single measly thing from a crooked racist cruel government who was plundering and divvying out their very own land.
February 9th, 2010 at 7:28 pm
Reply to Boertjie @ 7:12 pm:
Interresant.
Sou graag wou weet wat die nommers is tussen 1976 and 1994 en daarna.
Die ekonomie het redelik vinning gegroei sedert 94.
As lande ons verby gesteek het is dit omdat hulle nog vinneger groei.
Voor 1976 was ‘n groot deel van die rykdom te danke aan goud. Daarna was daar sanksies en oorloë.
February 9th, 2010 at 7:38 pm
actually SA was not even that successful, it was success for a very small minority and a hell-hole for a very large majority, which any clown could achieve and probably supercede given SAs natural resources – the longer SA remained in isolation from the rest of the world the more backward and 2nd rate it became. the country is starting to flourish once again with the exposure of the world;s ideas.
February 9th, 2010 at 7:38 pm
I see the big nations and businesses
are being filed for in the EU court due to sanctions ,isolation
and the fact that trade continued.
Brilliant.
and algeria is passing a law on the criminality of colonialism and the sicking
the law onto france.
Brilliant.
February 9th, 2010 at 7:49 pm
someone even mentioned they are building tuscan villas in kempton park these days, lol, one wonders wtf for, when the cape-dutch or bush rondawel architecture are so much more appealing.
February 9th, 2010 at 7:49 pm
Reply to cab @ 7:23 pm: Reply to cab @ 7:23 pm:
why do u think they burnt down their schools,
=======
Why do you think they are STILL
doing it – including hospitals,
clinics, municipal buildings
etc.?
Reply to fyndraai @ 7:28 pm:
Sonder sanksies en boikotte
het die ekonomie nog nie een
jaar die verwagte 6% gehaal
nie – die soort van “break even
point.”
Ons voer al hoe meer in, al hoe
minder uit.
Selfs die Sokker en ANC poppies
word van China af ingevoer. En
die leerbaadjies
February 9th, 2010 at 7:51 pm
Reply to cab @ 7:49 pm:
Tuscan style has become the
latest architectural joke.
Together with palm trees.
Gelukkig plant hulle nou
inheemse koorsbome in die
Kaap.
February 9th, 2010 at 7:53 pm
Reply to Boertjie @ 7:49 pm:
they burning down schools and hospitals still?
yessus Boer, have you thrown out those papers from 1980?
February 9th, 2010 at 7:55 pm
Reply to Boertjie @ 7:51 pm:
cape-dutch is still the most beautiful, by a long shot.
February 9th, 2010 at 8:01 pm
Reply to Duiwel @ 7:38 pm:
Ja Boet – daai geld sal maar
net weer in ‘n paar swart
gatsakke verdwyn.
Soos al die miljarde se hulp
aan Afrika.
Nothing to show for it.
February 9th, 2010 at 8:02 pm
Reply to cab @ 7:53 pm:
No, I read the current papers.
Wake up.
February 9th, 2010 at 8:05 pm
Reply to Boertjie @ 8:02 pm:
lol, ok if u say so.
February 9th, 2010 at 8:09 pm
Reply to Boertjie @ 8:02 pm:
And when the train is late,
they burn the train.
So tomorrow there is NO train.
2-3 years ago Pretoria station
was also burnt down.
February 9th, 2010 at 8:11 pm
Reply to Boertjie @ 8:09 pm:
but how the bliksem do they burn metal?
February 9th, 2010 at 8:27 pm
Oom D,
het jy al jou mus gekry?
February 9th, 2010 at 8:44 pm
Reply to cab @ 8:11 pm:
SHOSHOLOZA MEYL COACHES DESTROYED BY FIRE | Railways Africa2 Aug 2009 … Five coaches of the passenger train were then set on fire, burning them out totally and … South Africa RailNews. GAUTENG METRORAIL STRIKE …
http://www.railwaysafrica.com/…/shosholoza-meyl-coaches-destroyed-by-fire/ – Cached -Similar
School vandalism: individual and social context. – Adolescence …Newspaper article from: Cape Times (South Africa) ; …the media attention on recent school vandalism, Education MEC Donald Grant…crackdown was triggered …
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-103381765.html – Cached – Similar
School vandalism: individual and social context.(Crime and justice …Newspaper article from: Cape Times (South Africa) ; …RAMACHANDRAN IN LIGHT of the media attention on recent school vandalism, Education MEC Donald Grant …
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-112129807.html – Cached – Similar
National Minister of Transport, Abdulah Omar Launches the Newly …24 Jun 2002 … “Restoring Pretoria station to its national Pride” … The fire that was started in a services centre on the ground floor of the main …
http://www.transport.gov.za/comm-centre/pr/2002/pr0624.html
February 9th, 2010 at 8:51 pm
Hello clowns.
Cab every liberal white who move to this country become suspect of the asfrican way of doing things. Lets say its a clash of cultures.
Fact is this government is not getting things right. The more they fail the more people give them stick and the more stick they get the more militant and racial they become as any critique is ‘racially motivated’ and therefore not valid.
Life must be better in SA today for most, no doubt.
But life can be better, and more often than not it seems mainly the white community who is thinking up ways to achieve this.
Its asif whites aspire to more having previously tasted a very well functioning state (for them).
Problem is in the afrikaans community since the 1930’s you had a small community ‘doing it for themselves’ after their people were exposed to genocide just a while earlier.
I guess the superior/inferior debate is then justified seeing as such a small group of people could get so much done in such a small space of time using just the money raised among themselves.
Yet the enitre black community seems incapable of doing even small tings with access to state capital.
February 9th, 2010 at 8:56 pm
fair enough, sounds like a bit of mob-like stupidity.
i take it you did not vote for President Zuma?
February 9th, 2010 at 9:02 pm
afrikaners were also uneductaed as they had to learn in english, then they translated their own language to accommodate science and maths.
This history tells you was done through sheer work ethinc and discipline, which sadly lacks among the black community in general (and I am generalising)
All this, together with potholed roads and bad education, yet a government clad with sunglasses in window tinted beamers, feeds (and in the eye of most- justifies) racism.
Something the anti-apartheid activist, Rhoda Khadali, is all too well aware of.
February 9th, 2010 at 9:03 pm
Reply to newbokshields @ 8:51 pm:
good to see old shieldsie, even tho he;s become a draad-sitter, did they not teach you anything at wits?
no no, there is a big difference between genuine critique of government policy, which is every citizen’s duty, as compared to a bigoted outlook which assumes a person is superior or inferior based solely on the colour of their skin.
the afr community is very ingenious and built alot of modern-day SA, they’ve traditionally been independent and selfsufficent and just get on with things – this is fine, but there;s the liberal element which is not their greatest strength generally.
I think the black community is also very ingenious and there strength is that they have a real sense of community such is the historical shortage of resources they’ve been faced with. They also generally have an indominable spirit of goodwill and happiness despite pften not having two cents to rub together.
February 9th, 2010 at 9:09 pm
Wits embraced socialism at the time I was there and today is simply confused.
I always feel that black south africans are generally great at surviving whereas whiteys seems better at flourishing.
Funny also how poor whites suffer more because they just dont have those basic survival skills or community help system.
Perhaps the black community has been forced (thourhg belief in kings and then collonialists and then apartheid) to survive for so long that they find it impossible to conceive a life where one flourishes?
February 9th, 2010 at 9:12 pm
not sure of that lazy work ethic, i mean the manual labout was still carried out by the black man, whereas the baas was the white civil servant who inherited his relatively senior rank more out of skin colour than merit or qualification.
tho its true, we had a vetgat cross-dressing zulu trannie who tried to pass himself off as a cook, he was useless and kept licking his lips, he also made off down the road in a getaway whereupon my boet rugby tackled him and his suitcase fell open to reveal a series of bras and panties…no shit, the oke was bigger than os du randt, had me in stitches for weeks.
February 9th, 2010 at 9:18 pm
Reply to newbokshields @ 9:09 pm:
did it? thought they turned out men of commerce and industry.
i think the white culture has traditionally placed more emphasis on materialistic possessions, whether that is better or worse than the black culture i’m not sure – i’d hazard a guess that black folk seem generally happier to me, its bizarre. also i’m not quite sure about flourishing, hell some of our MPs are only to happy to buy their bling (which is a total load of nonsense) and the black okes i knew always spent a little extra on their clothes and knew how to dress and turn themselves out – i thought it was amusing that they had all this style and buggeral cash, alot of pride, its great.
February 9th, 2010 at 10:08 pm
that Katman on Keo is bladdy funny also.
alright better call it a night, i feel i;m scaring the locals off.
February 9th, 2010 at 10:29 pm
Reply to cab @ 10:08 pm:
NEWS JUST IN:
Protesters burn Balfour library
2010-02-09 21:04
The library in Balfour’s Siyathemba township went up in flames during a protest to get the the local mayor to resign.
Get the picture?
Does it make sense to
the white mindset?
February 9th, 2010 at 11:05 pm
Fair enough to sit miles away and not be touched by the sheer fucking anger this type of thing unleashes.
Burn the library!
These kids have real gripes. Fact
These kids behave like real barbarians. Fact
My views above are generally construed in modern day south africa as racist.
And Cab for you to in any way back (or NOT condemn) what the current government is doing in SA results to conservatism on your part. Its time for change and the true new liberals will be critiqual of whats going on.
I am not sitting fence, I am speaking out against, which makes me liberal in todays SA.
February 9th, 2010 at 11:19 pm
Reply to newbokshields @ 11:05 pm:
you are quite correct, i have no real say in SA sitting where i am away for so long, that much i cannot argue with and i’ve acknowledged that before.
i dont have any problem with you criticings kids, blacks or the goverment – what i surely do have a problem with is the thinking ‘blacks cannot look after themselves’. On fence-sitting and the new liberal, perhaps you want to find middle ground here too with the ooms whose company we all enjoy – not me, i will criticise it for precisely what you know it to be – rubbish bigotted nonsense.
February 9th, 2010 at 11:38 pm
sorry ‘kids or government’, i dont see how criticising ppl based on skin colour is any use.
February 9th, 2010 at 11:53 pm
But surely cab you cannot possibly think I will take a patronising stance on this matter? To say ‘blacks cannot look after themselves’ is a statement too complicated for me to even consider.
We cannot crit skin colour but we sure as hell can crit culture. I have for years been having a go at the afrikaners I grew up around. But if you cannot look at the myriad of aspects of black culture and not acknowledge that this culture prevents its patrons from progress?
BUT
those who do not want to hear this will then make the link bewteen above statement and ‘race’.
Afrikaans ‘culture’ hosted and festered apartheid ideology and it was one big mistake. Yet no-one shirks (not here or anywhere in the world) having a go at afrikaners for all their mistakes, yet selfsame commentators does not have the balls to crit this african culture?
Why not? Is that not patronising? “you cannot crit black culture because?” Well perhaps because deep down you think the culture inferior and do not want to seem righteous by lending it critique?
February 10th, 2010 at 12:06 am
Reply to newbokshields @ 11:53 pm:
no shieldsie its not complicated at all.
i dont mind an honest enquiry into a culture or cultural differences where perhaps some cultures are stronger than others, but i just cannot stand a bigot who gets some racist diatrible and presents it as evidence or justification for his racist beliefs, or a generalisation of an entire grouping.
are you criticising the ANC or black culture generally, if the latter, you need to be more specific and to give reasons for your beliefs. if the former, i have absolutely no problem whatsoever with that, Boerman has emailed me a piece, which i virtually completely agree with – except for one thing that they link winnie mandela as some sort of liberal – i dont think ppl appreciate teh difference between left wing and liberals…liberals in the true sense of the word are not crooks and thugs out for themselves or their own culture.
also lets be quite clear on what i consider to be a liberal – most of you lot are thinking the PFP brigade – i think alot of them were liberals, but they were also largely self-interested and as soon as the going got tough, they got scared and got out – they are not what i consider to be any chop in a liberal sense, they were pseudo-liberals but at least they did take a stand against the prevailing racist government at teh time which was a damn sight better than most others did, but thats swept under the carpet too.
February 10th, 2010 at 12:11 am
Reply to cab @ 2:45 pm:
Ashtray,
My questions are still hanging out there, so when you actually grow some balls and answer them, I will contemplate answering yours.
Reply to cab @ 3:37 pm:
The Boers were outnumbered. They could follow the old English braindead way of fighting. One would have thought that you claiming to have an open mind would be able to figure it out.
Nevermind the fact that that aspect of the Boer way of warfare changed the face of warfare after that. Too hard to swallow or too hard to comprehend?
February 10th, 2010 at 12:13 am
one other thing, there’s a big difference between the old liberal who actually was tailed and intimidated by the secret police of this country (and indeed sometimes murdered if we are to be completely open), as opposed to the new SA liberal who has all sorts of rules ensuring his online freedoms are largely protected on a site of like-minded rugby followers.
it amuses me above when i read that the liberals have no backbone – lmao – these ppl had everything to lose and for nothing other than common human decency.
so lets also make no mistake – there is a quantum leap forward by the old liberals as opposed to the new – so many of which i read today and i wonder if they or I would have been up for the task that their forebears did?
February 10th, 2010 at 12:15 am
i think my last two paragraphs above should answer you perfectly Donner.
lol, u still caught up with my boer war bullshit, i thought we moved on? who the hell really cares? thats why i do it. word wakker.
February 10th, 2010 at 12:18 am
Reply to fyndraai @ 7:21 pm:
Just like Apartheid is history. What is the difference?
February 10th, 2010 at 12:20 am
look i dont mind if grootpa shot some red-coated dandy from 200ft met eenskoot regdeur sy hol and then jumped on his perd to get the hell out of dodge.
but now listen you must stand up to those ozzies, dont let them push you around, fok the perd, fight properly.
February 10th, 2010 at 12:23 am
Reply to cab @ 12:13 am:
Ashtray,
Please pick a fight and then actually act on your beliefs. I beg you.
February 10th, 2010 at 12:25 am
Reply to cab @ 12:20 am:
Ashtray,
You really need to actually do some research before making sweeping statements. You are a fucking joke
February 10th, 2010 at 12:27 am
Reply to Deon @ 12:25 am:
why you calling me silly names, i thought we were mates?
look i cant help it, u like peter scetera.
February 10th, 2010 at 12:35 am
knowing your musical tastes and as a sign of reconciliation, i do this one time only:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFYBLwb3I84
February 10th, 2010 at 12:39 am
yip, seems like he’s in another foul mood, seems like a big red has taken a dump in his cereal bowl this morning.
ok better be off and let you okes explain why the blecks are inferior.
February 10th, 2010 at 1:37 am
hehehe,Cab,
you even had Shieldsie
getting all defensive,
deon half de bliksem in
good nights blogging what,what.
You are almost as bad as Toppie.
As for the opinions
(bar Toppie-objective old school newshound)
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.
As kak praat n sport was
was julle Springbokke.
February 10th, 2010 at 1:44 am
Reply to cab @ 12:39 am:
Ashtray
My point has not been that blacks are inferior. My opinion of that is that some of them are just as incompetent as you and some other whites.
Unfortunately there are no way of changing that because of the rights taken away from the genuine people to get them and you up to standard.
February 10th, 2010 at 1:56 am
Cabbie you cannot keep on argue your point (about being liberal and therefore better) and yet end many a post casting a stone?
“leave you to argue why blacks are inferior”?
If you had to spend the last 2 weeks in this country you would also go home a but pissed off at the way things are done and run. You have a good life and we all live by our choices but surely you can also practise more objectivity in your opinions?
Then again I just take life far too serious and perhaps you are just joking?
But all in all I cannot help bu tthink you have never updated your opinion about matters political in SA since you left here. The bad guys are still the bad guys and the good guys the good?
Your frame of reference to analise and describe SA politics seems very 1990’s and fairly so. Its great that you still debate and care for the country but you cannot fight todays fights using yesterdays weapons.
So where you see DavidS defending his race (as if all whites are kosher!) you see Cabbie defending his political opinion formed in a country thousands of miles away formed in a bygone era.
You both are silly for such old supposedly mature men.
February 10th, 2010 at 2:01 am
and by the way shouting at someone that he or she is a bigot or a racist is just as bad as shouting at someone that they are a stinking k*ff*r?
Both show intolerance to another person based on whatever makes that person different.
This not a basic principle of the liberal minded?
What good is it being a rockstar at tolerating another race yet you cannot tolerate another view?
You old farts pretty much drilled the above principle into my naive little mind but it seems many of you dont practise what you preach?
February 10th, 2010 at 2:01 am
Reply to Deon @ 12:18 am:
One day in the future it will be the same.
Not yet, those who suffered under it and those responsible are still alive and in many cases still live with the consequences.
In 1910 Smuts and Botha should have launched a compensation and reconciliation effort for the war and the camps. Maybe Afrikaners would have ended up treating Africans better, if we were able to put our own bitterness aside.
February 10th, 2010 at 2:16 am
good comment fyndraai.
JM Coetzee reckons apartheid resulted as a consequence of blacks and whites never reconciling after those early ‘kaffer oorloe’ when white would occupie land and black retalliate by stealing livestock.
That cycle JM reckons has never been broken.
February 10th, 2010 at 5:57 am
Allow me to confuse ashtray even more:
Seeing that you believe what you read, quote from Wiki:
“Australian government policy from earlier years has been claimed to be the original impetus for the apartheid system in South Africa.”
The reference linked to an Journal of Australian history from the Uni of WA
Quote from this journal:
“Like South African rulers, Australian leaders, such as Robert Menzies and H. V. Evatt, remained aloof from African nationalists in the Commonwealth. In his memoirs, Menzies maintains that many Africans lacked `the capacity to vote’. According to a colleague, he had `no brotherly feeling towards coloured people’”
“In this period, there was strong Australian bipartisan support for white South Africa, based on legal doctrines of non-interference in domestic affairs and support for the `White Australia’ policy. Liberal governments broadly supported South Africa from 1949 to 1960. In 1952, Australia defended Pretoria at the United Nations during massive internal defiance campaigns. The Australian Foreign Minister conceded privately that in 1957 he had made `as good a plug as I could for South Africa’. After Menzies refused to condemn the 1960 Sharpeville massacre, South African Prime Minister Verwoerd informed him that he was the `best friend South Africa has’ ”
Oops
February 10th, 2010 at 8:36 am
Reply to newbokshields @ 1:56 am:
WeLL said!
Reply to newbokshields @ 2:01 am:
Even BeTTah!
Reply to fyndraai @ 2:01 am:
February 10th, 2010 at 10:42 am
Reply to newbokshields @ 1:56 am:
you may have many a point there, but what i will not partake in is a degradation of black folk, esp after all the shit they’ve had to endure be that 90s politics or in any decade, i wont let that slide, those attitudes were held by the majority during apartheid and if it rears its ugly head again so be it, we will have to keep having this ugly debate since i am not going to say ‘oh they have a point’. Its racist, plain and simple.
when i have a go at the afr that is a winde-up and its also bigotted cos its in response to some racist comment, cos i figure whats good for the goose is good for the gander, is that afterall not fair, an eye for an eye?
Deon,
i dunno wtf u talking about mostly these days. Seems you upset about me taking everyone rights away? lol – are you ok in the kop – i presume its really cos i dont believe u are actually worshipping god when viewing kaalgat tannies? u a tosser with a sense of humour failure.
if ppl are racist or put forward a racist position then what must they be called? what would you call someone who puts forward the view that blacks are inferior or cannot take care of themselves? Absolutely f’ing backward. I dont need to be in modern day SA to recognise a racism. If you want me to feel sorry for the arme wit mens in SA, that is a completely different issue, which gains no credence from racism. The word k****** is a totally undeserving derogatory epithet aimed at an entire race, not an individual, so its completely opposite to saying an individual is racist. The equivalent of K-word is the D-word and even that is not even close.
February 10th, 2010 at 10:50 am
My political opinion was formed having spent over 26 years in that country in a highly politicised family, i know what only went on during apartheid, but also what happened after it. Its a very informed view so excuse me if i’m a bit reluctant to believe there’s been a wholesale change in thinking.
But that is not even what i am taking issue with here, i dont know how much attitudes have or have not changed, all i do know is when ppl put forward the position that whites are somehown superior and need to look after blacks who cant look after themselves. That is an immediate judgements influenced by no background belief system.
Its you that seems to want to label me as holding passe beliefs, when instead i am attacking an attitude held by an individual on this very blog in the here and now.
I mean what dont you get? What should i be doing? I must just let some racist diatrible slide by unopposed (and hence getting everyone tacit support)? For goodness sake, when something is racist, label it as such.
February 10th, 2010 at 11:13 am
Reply to cab @ 10:42 am:
Ashtray
Where did I ever say I worship God if I see them. Go read my post again and do it slowly so that you can understand it. IT IS ABOUT THE WONDER OF WOMEN. Again something you will not understand. Because of men of your ilk, 160 women are raped weekly in SA. (go read the report just released)
Typical you will ridicule everything you want, but do not dare to question your beliefs that is being shown up as failing.
In the first place I have not touched on the black/white debate. I was talking about the proof that the “liberal” way of doing things are failing spectacullarly. And all that was good, proven successful and contributed to building a decent society within the conservative way has been destroyed by it. AND JUST TO MAKE IT CLEAR I EXCLUDED RACISM FROM THAT MANY A TIMES.
You don’t want to understand. As I said no conscience, no emotions and feelings. Waliking dead wate of oxygen.
If you feel that strong about the term racist then again apply it fairly and do not excuse one side from the argument. That makes you a hypocrit. (among many other things)
February 10th, 2010 at 11:19 am
BTW that post on the apartheid thing does not mean I condone it.
Just some information for you.
Just like you will probably not want to know that Christianity is very much alive here.
February 10th, 2010 at 11:24 am
Reply to cab @ 10:42 am:
“Seems you upset about me taking everyone rights away”
Not you personally, but like weeds they tend to take over all the good plants quickly. So it is better to start exterminating at the first sign.
February 10th, 2010 at 11:28 am
Reply to cab @ 10:42 am:
what would you call someone who puts forward the view that blacks are inferior or cannot take care of themselves?
=======
Then I’m a racist, but my views
are backed by a whole African
continent, including the BRSA.
The plus-point is that more and
more black intellectuals are also
seeing that the ANC is a selection
of useless gravy trainers.
A renowned black American professor
some years ago said Africa’s only
salvation is re-collonisation from
Europe.
I feel at home with open minded
racists like these; Rhoda Kadalie,
Moeletsi Mbeki and others.
February 10th, 2010 at 11:40 am
http://linguatics.com/StValentine.html
Something to calm the nerves with.
February 10th, 2010 at 11:47 am
Reply to WiLLem @ 11:40 am:
Dit is net die liberales se manier om ons deur die ore te werk man.
February 10th, 2010 at 11:55 am
Reply to Deon @ 11:13 am:
liewe fok, i am not only am responsbile for taking all your rights away and the breakdown of modern society, but raping woman each week – LOL – mal in die kop. whats happened in oz, sense of humour failure, its just the startm they going to have a field day.
‘a walking dead waste of oxygen…extermination’, fok, not many ware christians left like that, must be the old testament type, wondrous, keep spreading the good word of peace and love to all.
Reply to Boertjie @ 11:28 am:
Well Boer, I am sorry to say if you hold those views, you are very much a racist and i suspect you know it. I like you very much, but that is your problem, not mine.
And actually I am now going to debate the ridiculous proposition that blecks cannot look after themselves, since i’m apparently being accused of not addressing the arguement, what an embaressment this is going to be, lets just hope no ppl with any intelligence read this utter garbage.
So firstly what is a bleck?
A bleck is a human being forming part of the race of homo sapies which includes individuals that all have differences such as skin colour, eye colour, hair colour, chop size and brain size. Indeed if we did not have these differences the human race would become sterile and come to an end.
The group of human beings that have survived the longest are the blecks. Indeed, each of us including the most in-bred ignorant racist aryan redneck will find that his oldest ancestor was, yes, a bleck.
This is a fact, because homo sapiens originated from the rift valley region of africa where ppl are ebony bleck because of their geographical habitat – you will not find blue-eyed aryans down there.
So in short, the blecks have been looking after themselves for longer than any other group of human beings. In short, not only can they look after themselves but they’ve done it for longer than any other.
This concludes our studies of the bleck.
Dankie
H
February 10th, 2010 at 12:06 pm
Reply to cab @ 11:55 am:
fair point “Hans”
February 10th, 2010 at 12:09 pm
Reply to WiLLem @ 12:06 pm:
To be specific
“So in short, the blecks have been looking after themselves for longer than any other group of human beings. In short, not only can they look after themselves but they’ve done it for longer than any other.”
Couple to that the closeneSS of the malaria bearing mosquito, HiPPo, Crocodile, Lion, Hyana and some uDDer nasties that gets exposure on ChANNel 260- then
to the “blecks”.
Expect some reference to Darwin to foLLow…
February 10th, 2010 at 12:16 pm
yip bound to be plenty of references of darwin to follow, mostly crap science from indoctrinated thinking with plenty of devotion givn to bonobos and chimps.,,god help us all.
February 10th, 2010 at 12:25 pm
Reply to cab @ 12:16 pm:
Well seeing that you don’t believe in him ashtray, you are on your own.
February 10th, 2010 at 12:29 pm
Reply to Deon @ 12:25 pm:
all i want to know is what religion allows you to pass off checking out kaalgat tannies as a sign of wonderment to god, whereas when the rest of us do it we are just pervs and delinquents?
February 10th, 2010 at 12:36 pm
if i go to my NG kerk oom Johan (with the lisp) and ask him if its ok to look at die kaal vroumens with only the interests of wonderment of god in mind, and wishing someone else to be exterminated – i wonder how he’d reconcile this with the Lord’s teachings.
February 10th, 2010 at 12:37 pm
Reply to cab @ 12:29 pm:
I never accused you being a perv. I believe in true free thinking, so what you do is your problem, not mine.
February 10th, 2010 at 12:39 pm
i hate to break it to you but we are genetically programmed to fancy and lust after tannies, if we were not, there’d be no little donner;s running around.
you can’t escape your biology ou boet, unless u a moffie, in that case you prefer kaal mans, each to their own.
February 10th, 2010 at 12:42 pm
It is only when you fuck up society and take my decisions out of my hands that I will get going at you. Or you want to infringe on my right of association and ridicule my beliefs. Crit all you want, but when ridicule it shows your poor character.
That was the moment I realised you had the intelligence of an ashtray.
February 10th, 2010 at 12:45 pm
ah i see what the ashtray is all about, now if you could just explain when it was that i fucked up society and stole your decisions?
what i cant tease you? are u that verkrampt?
February 10th, 2010 at 12:46 pm
Reply to cab @ 12:39 pm:
And that is where self control, morals and values come into play. Big words for you, I know, but rest assured that one day you might understand them.
February 10th, 2010 at 12:47 pm
Reply to cab @ 12:45 pm:
Some things you do not tease about.
February 10th, 2010 at 12:49 pm
Reply to cab @ 12:45 pm:
How many times do I have to debate this?
Geesh I never realised what it meant when they said you have to repeat things 35 times for children to understand.
My 5 & 7 year old managed it after 6 times average.
Maybe that is because the plakkie does the talking after that. So that means you just need a PK. Will be happy to oblige.
February 10th, 2010 at 12:53 pm
Reply to Deon @ 12:49 pm:
Do you hit your defensless kids?
No no I am not going to get drawn in to this one
February 10th, 2010 at 12:53 pm
But Donner tell me honestly do u not find it amusing that many of these gods-diensteliges are big racists and kaaltannie offianados?
everything they do flies right in the face of their holier-than-tho teachings – its the funniest bladdy thing. But the best of the lot is they blame everyone else for society’s failures…quoi?
i cant possibly take that seriously, gotta poke fun at it. seems i better not tease you anymore, you used to be able to take a joke, nowadays u seem to be taking strain.
February 10th, 2010 at 12:56 pm
Conservative Aus lifestyle getting the better of him cabbie!
February 10th, 2010 at 12:57 pm
Reply to cab @ 11:55 am:
Well Boer, I am sorry to say if you hold those views, you are very much a racist
=====
Well, I will leave it up to
you to give examples of
current succesful African
states and leaders and change
my views.
February 10th, 2010 at 12:57 pm
Reply to Deon @ 12:49 pm:
you’ll need alot more than your plakkie, i’m bigger than your kids.
tell me what i must not tease you about, and then i will know its the holy of holies and not to offend you, anders kry jy ernstig soos n meneer?
February 10th, 2010 at 1:00 pm
Reply to JT @ 12:56 pm:
hehe, no perhaps i am full of it and overstepped the marker, i thought he laughed about the kaaltannies, obviously very sensitive, nouja.
how was i too know? the entire site was covered in punani at one stage, hell even i blushed.
February 10th, 2010 at 1:06 pm
Thank gaia that the S14 starts in 2 days! At least we can get focused on something we all can talk about in jest – RUGBY!
February 10th, 2010 at 1:18 pm
Cabbie you prove my point.
In your ‘South Africa during the 80’s’ mindset the biggest evil is white on black racism and thats you crusade – it gets you off your seat because your identity was largely shaped by your stance during those days.
Yet white on black racism is almost insignificant in present day SA. Its part of history and deeply ingrained in the way these two groups relate to one another, but htis relationship and its dynamics do NOT matter today.
So find a new crusade I guess, or will your liberalism forever just be identified by your stance against apartheid?
February 10th, 2010 at 1:23 pm
and cabbie if you were with me in hospital with my grandparents the other day and witnessed how a black doctor treated them with utter disrespect and a racism that borders on the senile, would you have said something?
Or would have have done what I did, which was to let my apartheid guilt override the current injustice and try to play nice?
Again all those people who rightfully campaigned against apartheid abroad is now nowhere to be seen to critique the current injutices aimed at all non ANC elite South Africans.
I think its becasue those same people thought that blacks cannot help themselves and therefore need to be protected from the strong.
Today they reckon the whiteys can fend for themselves as the whites are the stronger species.
Do you even see the black hipocrasy in this?
February 10th, 2010 at 1:43 pm
Reply to newbokshields @ 1:18 pm:
but hang on, i took specific offence to a particular few comments on this current thread which promulgated the racist viewpoint that blacks are inferior and that they cannot look after themselves.
you may have picked up on my old liberal style attitudes which you believe i am limited too, but you see unfortunately what i am picking up on and have a problem with is precisely the attitide that existed during apartheid and has been raised on this current thread.
if on the other hand, you want to discuss black on white racism in modern SA, we can do so but this has not been what this thread is arguing about so it is you who would be trying to defend some preconceived position into this argument to smooth it out. But for the record you are quite right that i do not think black on white racism in modern SA is anywhere near as overtly performed as was the reverse 20 years ago – are you suggesting it is? On whther racism of any kind is right, no it is not, on the ANC they have many shortcomings that need to be criticised, on white guilt there’s a good reason for this i’m just not sure it is felt. On a racist doctor will an poor bedside manner, he’s lucky he did not cop a klap at a a time like that. All of these issues i will probably agree with you on, but that was not what this current thread in the here and now (not my past views) was about. If you wish to discuss these issues, fine, pick one or two.
I dont want a crusade, i simply believe racist attitudes that are maintained are damaging and incorrect to all concerned. They are born out of ignorance and they promulgate stereotypes which destroy (and make it still acceptable to do so) the consciousness of a group that has already been persectured to an unacceptable and shameful extent. The blacks dont need any help from me, but i will if nothing else, stand up for my beliefs and show that there are white ppl in all walks of socity (and on this website) who are not racist bigots and will never subscribe to such indoctrinated brainwashing.
February 10th, 2010 at 2:03 pm
Fair enough then cabbie. I understand.
I’d say black on white racism is now about as overt as white on black racism was in 1963, 15 years after the NP cam to power, and sliding on a scale similar to the apartHATE trajectory.
A law is to be passed next month in Zim whereby any white business of R500k value must be handed over to ‘indigenous’ people.
I fear we are repeating history here n Southern Africa and its about time you dust off the old liberal fight in you and start getting involved.
And its not just whites getting stick. This is a full out class war where the rich mobilise the poor to ensure the power they need to sustain themselves.
The poor uneducated black populace might just need to unite with the more educated and resourced white counterparts to overthrow this, but will they, or is their racial ‘difference’ too good a marketing ploy by the elite to keep the masses onside?
February 10th, 2010 at 2:15 pm
Reply to newbokshields @ 2:03 pm:
lol, well you are entitled to your view.
As for Zim, just dont confuse that with the ANC, as you know zim is ruled by a dictator who like the NP have no regard for the liberal tradition.
The modern ANC is not a terribly liberally minded society, much like modern day americans, but fortunately they both have these constitutions which are very liberal and very difficult to get round – so many freedoms are preserved – tho you might disagree with this.
I have criticised the ANC widely, it often comes periously close to abusing its powers, and sometimes it does just that, for example with the Hoskins/Watson selection debacle.
The longer SA staves off the likes of Malema and the more its middle class develops, the better chance it will have of eventually becoming of the most desirable countries to live in in future, its only with a large middle class where ppl have something to lose does one get the stability you are looking for.
What is going to be interesting is that if SA does continue to succeed there is going to become a real immigration problem with ppl flooding in from all over africa. I believe black SA will become as conservative in their morals as white SA, ppl learn from their masters, in fact we have far more in common with one another than we realise. That will be interesting, because black SA will have to police their borders very strongly, its already a problem. So perhaps its just as well a black govt is there who can take the necessary steps without being pilloried like other white govts do.
February 10th, 2010 at 3:33 pm
Reply to cab @ 1:00 pm:
Dit lyk my Donner sal moet terug trek Suid Afrika to om te aanhou kaalgat meisies kyk.:soek:
:Australian hackers have disabled several government websites in co-ordinated attacks protesting against a planned internet filter aimed at pornography.::finger:
February 10th, 2010 at 3:37 pm
Reply to Sharksmart @ 3:33 pm:
hehehe
So SS who do you use to be?
sEEing that Deon is the “formelyknownasDoNNer” character for quite a while now?
gOOdeluck to your team- them wishes does have a one wEEk timelimit though!
February 10th, 2010 at 3:54 pm
Willie Walie wasn’t that bad.
Surprised Sarel Seemonster didn’t get a guest appearance in that van der merwe prawn movie.
February 10th, 2010 at 5:09 pm
Reply to Sharksmart @ 3:33 pm:
hy het wel van n grap en ‘n kaalgat gehou – nou moet ‘n mens versigtig trap, hy raak serious.
Reply to manvanstaal @ 3:54 pm:
great show and boerewors cannot be beaten.
February 10th, 2010 at 5:21 pm
Reply to manvanstaal @ 3:54 pm:
Goeie nuuis: Wielie Walie
is nou op DVD te koop.
Laaste goeie kinderprogram,
saam met Liewe Heksie.
February 10th, 2010 at 5:27 pm
Reply to cab @ 5:09 pm: Boerewors, love it.
February 10th, 2010 at 5:29 pm
Reply to Boertjie @ 5:21 pm: Dit is goeie nuus.
February 10th, 2010 at 8:47 pm
ZZZZZZ-everyone gaaning aan about
race,bettter,smellier,superior,
infinitely higher educated ect-zzzzz
Typical Saffa kak.
Bores the shit out of me.
Don’t you okes realise that the
time spending on it
could be spent riding?
Yahoo!
whatever you’re riding
ride the kak out of it!!
heres my funky bike
and i’ll post it to ruggaworlders
http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260549467536&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT
February 11th, 2010 at 12:23 pm
Reply to cab @ 2:15 pm:
Cab how many foreigners do you want to be killed before you reckon SA has a REAL immigratiobn problem?
Last year SA overtook the US as the country with the most refugee applications. Its a huge fucking mess already thanks.
February 11th, 2010 at 12:57 pm
Sommigen houden niet van versnellingen.
Willen ook geen remkabels op de fiets.
Als het maar lekker fietst, licht in gewicht is, makkelijk vouwbaar en er strak uitziet.
So warmstes aka ridewiZZard
HoevEEl fietse moet ons klomp verkramptes kOOp vOOr jy jou advertensies OOk in AfrikAAns sit?