Peter de Villiers is expected to face a disciplinary hearing after his statement that the Springboks are 100% behind murder accused Bees Roux.
Craig Ray, Times LIVE
The Bok coach, appearing to speak on behalf of the players ahead of Roux’s bail hearing in the Pretoria Magistrate’s Court on Monday, said: “The team supports him 100%, not on the deed, but rather on the circumstances that led to the situation developing.”
Several of the current Springboks are Bulls team-mates and friends of Roux, who was arrested in the early hours of last Friday morning for the alleged murder of a metro police officer in Pretoria.
According to SuperSport’s Brenden Nel, De Villiers seemed to imply that a misunderstanding could have led to the event, and felt there were other parties who were trying to use the Roux situation to hurt rugby and the Boks in particular by creating stereotypes about what rugby players are.
“People are ugly outside, they’re dirty and they try and use everything to stop us bringing hope to the people out there,” De Villiers said.
Roux was granted bail of R100 000.
De Villiers’s remarks have provoked indignation and anger, but SARU president, Oregan Hoskins, said: “I have no comment to make at this stage, but I have seen the comments Peter made. I want the team to focus on Saturday’s Tri-Nations game against Australia in Bloemfontein.”
But The Times has learned that De Villiers might face charges of bringing the game into disrepute.
A senior rugby official said: “We are not only unhappy with what he said regarding the Roux incident, but also over his previous comments.”
RUGBY365 has it slightly different:
Earlier reports suggested that De Villiers was expected to face a disciplinary hearing, because of his statement that the team is behind Roux.
However, South African Rugby Union President Oregan Hoskins told rugby365.com that there is no plans for a disciplinary hearing involving De Villiers.
Hoskins added that he will have a “heart-to-heart” with De Villiers about his statements in the media.
“We will talk after the Tri-Nations,” Hoskins told rugby365.com.
September 1st, 2010 at 12:11 pm
Foot in mouth disease.
In his case there is no cure.
September 1st, 2010 at 12:12 pm
I have read the comments a couple of times now, even listened to the audio clip…
What is the fuss about?
What am I missing?
September 1st, 2010 at 12:15 pm
Reminds me of the Mallett incident – looking for any excuse to fire him
September 1st, 2010 at 12:23 pm
Reply to JT @ 12:15 pm:
This is the kind of headline
you get (Sydney Morning Herald):
Peter de Villiers backs accused murderer
Springboks coach Peter de Villiers has thrown his support behind accused murderer and Bulls rugby prop Bees Roux.
After an horrific incident in Pretoria early last Friday, 29-year-old Roux was charged with beating a police officer to death.
The outspoken de Villiers said his team “supports Bees Roux 100 per cent”.
======
That’s another reason why you
can’t have a clown as coach.
But I don’t expect you to agree.
September 1st, 2010 at 12:24 pm
Reply to Boertjie @ 12:23 pm:
the media is the evil party in all this! IMO never talk to the fu**ers
September 1st, 2010 at 12:29 pm
Reply to Boertjie @ 12:23 pm:
Aaahhh so convenient hey Boertjie…
Point number 1, Bees is not a murderer, he is accused of a murder and the trial is yet to take place.
Secondly, it is quite clear for anyone who wants to read that his (PDV) comments clearly state that the situation affects the Boks as some of the guys are personal friends with Bees, knows him on a personal level and they support the person in during this time, but not the deed…
But hey, don’t let people out there’s hate for the guy get in the way of facts…
Given the information you have at your disposal, I find it particularly interesting you support this obvious sensationalist bullshit from journalists in Sydney.
September 1st, 2010 at 12:31 pm
Reply to JT @ 12:24 pm:
And people are up in arms when PDV tells them that they (the team) will close ranks and shut the media out?
September 1st, 2010 at 12:32 pm
Reply to Morné @ 12:31 pm:
I am 100% behind our clown
September 1st, 2010 at 12:35 pm
Reply to JT @ 12:32 pm:
How do you get from this:
Coach Peter de Villiers, while not condoning the action, told journalists that the matter had been discussed within the national team context and that it was a “tragic” affair.
Several of the current Springboks are teammates and friends of Roux, who was arrested in the early hours of Friday morning for the alleged murder of a metro police officer.
Weekend newspaper reports indicate an altercation ensued after the policeman was busy driving Roux home. The burly prop appeared in court on Monday.
Several Bok players have told SuperSport.com they are in the dark about what happened, and have had no contact with Roux or anyone else on the matter.
“We definitely talked about Bees in a team context,” De Villiers said, “We feel for all South Africans and especially rugby players because a situation like this can happen to anybody. It is a tragic situation and we wish it on nobody.
“The team supports him 100 per cent, not on the deed but rather on the circumstances that led to the situation developing.”
To this:
Peter de Villiers backs accused murderer
???
September 1st, 2010 at 12:37 pm
Hang on what was the story of the other rugby player, not so long ago, that also stood trial for murder but continued to play rugby or be supported?
I remember something like that…
September 1st, 2010 at 12:45 pm
Nick got fired for because of bring the game into disrepute.
September 1st, 2010 at 12:46 pm
Reply to Morné @ 12:35 pm:
“The team supports him 100 per cent, not on the deed but rather on the circumstances that led to the situation developing.”
To this:
Peter de Villiers backs accused murderer.
=========
Realistic deduction for any
journo – if you “back him 100%”
and if he’s a murder accused,
which he is.
Or how would you interpret it?
He’s been in the job 3 years
(too long) and just cannot
learn from his public statements.
September 1st, 2010 at 12:54 pm
Reply to Jacques(Bunny) @ 12:45 pm:
he got fired for saying that the test tickets are to expensive…
September 1st, 2010 at 12:55 pm
Reply to Boertjie @ 12:46 pm:
what happened to “Innocent until PROVEN quilty”!?
September 1st, 2010 at 12:56 pm
Reply to Jacques(Bunny) @ 12:45 pm:
Nick got fired because he took on his employers.
Reply to Boertjie @ 12:46 pm:
Realistic deduction you say…
My interpretation is simple.
Boks and specifically his team mates and friends supports him through this difficult time, like any friend would do.
September 1st, 2010 at 12:58 pm
Reply to Boertjie @ 12:46 pm:
In anycase, your last paragraph gives your true views away – public statements or not.
3 years too long…
You have never even given him a chance. Like most.
September 1st, 2010 at 1:03 pm
Boertjie
Realistic deduction for any
journo –
The qualifier being “for any journo”
Geez is it any wonder that the government wants to shut the media up….
Especially if one looks at what he actually said
Pull one line and quote it out of context and then base an entire opinion around it…
Like this classic example
Police tell the media: We found sperm near Eugene Terreblanche’s corpse
Ergo we get the superb incisive deductive reasoning of the journos as follows
Eugene Terreblanche was having interracial gay sex with his killers before they murdered him…
Absolutely logical deduction to make… even after the accused murderers and police investigators denied it…
September 1st, 2010 at 1:06 pm
Someone said Snor is in trouble with the Higbury Safika crowd…
Now we see if they hold sway..
September 1st, 2010 at 1:06 pm
Reply to Morné @ 12:58 pm: Morne come on….Why must he always open his big mouth on isseus he does not have to…..there was no reason for him to get involved in this isseus as you gladly point out to us the guy is not guilty until they can proof it. So why would a national clown like PDV stick is fat nose into something like this if not needed.
It is not that he did not had anything else to do…his team is as bad as JW 2006 team at this stage.
Reply to Morné @ 12:56 pm: “Nick got fired because he took on his employers.”
No he got fired for bringing the game into disrepute……
September 1st, 2010 at 1:11 pm
It does not matter what the cause was he brought the game into disrepute
September 1st, 2010 at 1:12 pm
Reply to Jacques(Bunny) @ 1:06 pm:
Well it states quite clearly that it was discussed within the team, and that the team is supporting Bees through this ordeal.
Now what exactly is your problem with that?
And no, Mallet did not bring the game into disrepute, the rest of the world could not give a toss what we charge for ticket prices.
He attacked his employer in public.
Thats what got him the boot.
September 1st, 2010 at 1:16 pm
Reply to Morné @ 1:12 pm: Funny haven’t heard any Bok player say anything about supporting Bees
September 1st, 2010 at 1:19 pm
Reply to Jacques(Bunny) @ 1:16 pm:
I don’t know when last you sat in a press conference (where this was said).
But usually you only have the coach and the captain commenting here REPRESENTING the TEAM. You don’t have all 15 guys sitting there.
I also cannot see what you seemingly don’t understand from the following line;
“We definitely talked about Bees in a team context”
September 1st, 2010 at 1:20 pm
Are you saying Peter is misrepresenting the team?
Then by all means, fire the him…
September 1st, 2010 at 1:49 pm
Tell you what:
You can lay a charge against
the journo or paper with any
ombudsman or media tribunal
or high court of appeal
and they will laugh at you.
Trust me, I’ve been in the
business.
Snor simply does not grasp that
you watch what you say, where
you say it and when and to who
you say it.
There was no putting words in
his mouth, out of context -
zilch.
This subject was best left
untouched altogether. And if
asked: “No comment.”
Reply to JT @ 12:55 pm:
what happened to “Innocent until PROVEN quilty”!?
=======
That does not come into it.
He is – like the story put it -
being accused of murder.
Check today’s media if you doubt
it. In fact, he’s out on R100 000
bail.
NOW WAIT:
I am not judging Bees – just
sticking to the facts and the
way it was reported.
AS FOR SNOR:
Yes, and I will say it again:
He has been bringing the game
and the Boks into disrepute
ever since he started.
The facts back me up.
September 1st, 2010 at 2:01 pm
Reply to Morné @ 1:12 pm:
http://wapedia.mobi/en/Nick_Mallet
In 2000, Mallett accused the South Africa Rugby Football Union (SARFU) of “greed” for selling Tri-Nations championship tickets at inflated prices[citation needed]. He had alienated the SARFU executive, and on 27 September he resigned as national coach at the start of a disciplinary hearing began into allegations that his comments had brought the game into disrepute[citation needed]. Some fans, upset by how he had treated Teichman and his teams sudden poor performance, were also keen to see him go[citation needed].
Like I said he bought the game into disrepute…….does not matter the act, he was accused to have bring the game in a bad light.
Could never understand why coaches who are under pressure wants to coem and make statements in the media with something they have no control over or which they can change. Why coaches do not do what they are apointed to do I do not know. At the end of the day if someone wants PDV out things like these can cause the dude his job
“No comment!” – to blood sucking vampire’s in the media is also a comment.
September 1st, 2010 at 2:02 pm
Reply to Boertjie @ 1:49 pm:
Of course they will laugh at you. it is an art to twist facts to suit an agenda, does not mean you changed the facts you just report it so it conveys a specific message.
As much as journalists will never stop doing, I will not stop calling it bullshit every time I believe this happens…
You said it yourself, it is not what he said, or the stance he takes, or whether it is true or not, as a society or rugby supporters we want him to just shut up, even if what he says is justified or the truth.
But this is the funny part or the biggest irony of it all.
His downfall will be because he speaks (in my opinion) the truth most of the time, albeit without any tact as you mentioned, it will have very little to do with rugby…
As a person like yourself who has been in the business of media, you don’t have a problem with that.
As a person who has been in the business of rugby, I have a massive problem with that.
It is obvious the two worlds will never meet.
If speaking the truth brings the game into disrepute, then there is something wrong with the game.
September 1st, 2010 at 2:04 pm
Reply to Jacques(Bunny) @ 2:01 pm:
Here is the irony with what you said:
Why coaches do not do what they are apointed to do I do not know.
The media WANTS direct access to the coach. When he refuses this, they go into a hissy-tiff (think Rassie two years back) accusing him of all kinds of stuff.
September 1st, 2010 at 2:05 pm
As for your comment on Mallet who is the politician now?
Is what Mallet said bringing the game into disrepute, or is it taking on his employers in public?
September 1st, 2010 at 2:18 pm
Reply to Morné @ 2:02 pm:
Journos are in the game of
selling newspapers.
If they serve rugby in the
process it’s good.
(And in the case of Viljoen
and Straeuli and many other
matters I believe they actually
served rugby.)
But it’s not their job to
sensor stupid quotes – it’s
their job to latch onto it.
It’s up to rugby and the individual
not to give them scope for attack
by not saying stupid things.
Hoskins’ remark when Snor was
elected is a good example.
September 1st, 2010 at 2:20 pm
Reply to Morné @ 2:04 pm: You see maybe it is just me but a player acussed of murder! I do not see how this is the job of the Bok coach to comment on, Bees is not involved in the Bok setup neither have he played for the Boks before.
I would have still said No Comment, for it has nothing to do with him as a coach. You see Morne the problem with PDV is that the media knows if they ask the right questions he will say what they want him to say.
As you mentioned, in rugby everone has friends somewhere and if we look back on how people were fired and hired in SA Rugby you know that certain people used the media to get what they wanted.
PDV must just start to shutup. Nobody could have screamed at him if he did not wanted to comment on Bees case.
September 1st, 2010 at 2:22 pm
Reply to Morné @ 2:05 pm: You are not getting what I am saying, If SA rugby wnats PDV out they will take him on on stuff he said and use the bring the game in disrepute bullshit even if that is not the case.
Teh problem with PDV is every week there is something he said in the media that SA Rugby can use in that way.
The guy must use his brains if he wants to keep his job.
September 1st, 2010 at 2:25 pm
Reply to Boertjie @ 2:18 pm: You see with that I agree.
I do not want a new coach now as much as the next guy do not want one, but PDV is making a hole for him which one of these day is gonna be too big to climb out
September 1st, 2010 at 2:28 pm
Reply to Boertjie @ 2:18 pm:
But now you are almost saying that journalists are, or should be in some instances a law onto themselves where through media pressure, ‘serve rugby’ and get coaches fired?
According to who? Those who support their opinion? What qualifies them to do this, or have this power?
What you say, and just thinking how journalists like Cardinelli and Vrede who knows imo absolutely dick about the game having the power to fire coaches, I can almost see Dawie’s point in censure!
You know, and I have said many times and I have actually done it myself, that it is very easy to report or form and state an opinion being very selective in your use of facts.
You can never be accused of misrepresentation or slander or even character assasination because you used facts – even if it was just the facts you wanted to use in proving your point or opinion.
If snotnose journo’s has the power to fire coaches, there is something seriously wrong Boertjie…
Reply to Jacques(Bunny) @ 2:20 pm:
I am going back to what I said…
Is what PDV said about Bees wrong?
Yes or no?
Is it wrong for him, the team, or any individual to support Bees?
Whether it should be said or not be said is not in question – or it is to you I think, but for me it comes down to whether it is right or wrong.
September 1st, 2010 at 2:34 pm
Reply to Morné @ 2:28 pm: Unfortunately for PDV me or you or the rugby public is not the guys sighning his cheque at the end of the month and we do not hire and fire.
Does not matter what we think! It matters what the SA Rugby Mafia thinks about it.
September 1st, 2010 at 2:35 pm
for me I will just tell him to start to shut the Flook up
September 1st, 2010 at 2:36 pm
Aus team released, top thread on main page.
September 1st, 2010 at 2:37 pm
Boer
Journos are in the game of
selling newspapers.
This is my issue with the entire media industry.
In fact the entire industry is in it to increase circulation and make money for shareholders…
Public interest, being a watchdog, all that high mighty stuff just does not come into it at all.
It’s about selling higher numbers of papers so you can advertise more and charge more for advertising and make more cash for the shareholders…
The fact that the media industry then jumps onto some high ideals of truth and vouice and freedom to write kak nonsense is just a sham to write opinionated emotive nonsense aimed to be an apiate for the masses and increase sales of the newspaper so that the likes of Tony ‘O Reilly can buy a new Porche GT3…
I know you don’t like this, but the truth is for every instance of corruption exposed we have 100 lies and half baked sensationalist spun opinions like the one discussed here and the one I mentioned above to alienate people.
September 1st, 2010 at 2:38 pm
Reply to Jacques(Bunny) @ 2:34 pm:
See my reply to Boertjie…
The media almost succeeded in getting Jake White fired in 2006…
Keo and his chronies specifically and I even remember a report in the Rapport with the headline; “Jake White fired!” or some shit.
One year later he won the World Cup.
If the media has the power to fire coaches, be very fucking afraid…
There is almost little use in supporting this game if this is the case…
September 1st, 2010 at 2:41 pm
Reply to DavidS @ 2:37 pm:
The fact that the media industry then jumps onto some high ideals of truth and vouice and freedom to write kak nonsense is just a sham to write opinionated emotive nonsense aimed to be an apiate for the masses
Isn’t this the strategy of political parties too, especially the ruling one at the moment?
To win over ‘votes’ pre-election?
September 1st, 2010 at 2:51 pm
Reply to Morné @ 2:38 pm: Yip
September 1st, 2010 at 3:01 pm
Dude it’s like that for every political party
Did you see the American liberal media crow about the withdrawal of troops from Iraq and the end of the war…
Except for the small little matter of there being 50 000 American troops still in the country… which kinda means Barrack is lying… not bending the truth… totally lying… but I’m NOT SEEING THE CONSERVATIVE MEDIA STAND UP AND CALL LIAR IN THE US!!!!!
I was speaking to a former poster on the weekend who is there (we all know who) and while he was talking to me there were machine guns firing in the background as American combat troops left on a patrol and were fire testing their machine guns…
Okay end of rant
Dude
The politician is effectively a lowlife piece of shit greedy self serving power hungry egotistical liar…
He does not pretend to be a doyen of honesty and a keeper of integrity the “voice of the people” entitled to say whatever he wants to even if it is a lie and hide behind “freedom of expression”… he does not pretend to be some sort of representative of virtue…
The media does hold themselves as ethical virtuopus hunters of truth and informers of people when all they really want to do is sell more papers
September 1st, 2010 at 3:02 pm
Reply to Morné @ 2:38 pm:
It was written by JJ Harmse and the heading was
KOEBAAI JAKE!
September 1st, 2010 at 3:17 pm
Reply to Morné @ 2:28 pm:
Hang on, the journo’s did
not fire Viljoen or Strooli
- they just reported on the
happenings and the public
mood.
YOU ASK:
Is what PDV said about Bees wrong?
Yes or no?
———
YES. Like in no condolences with
the victim’s family added. This
was simply not PC.
Is it wrong for him, the team, or any individual to support Bees?
——-
YES – not in public, not as the
coach.
Just as it was wrong of him to
openly state his support for the
ANC in public, using a rugby
platform to say it.
September 1st, 2010 at 3:17 pm
Why’s he talking about the case at all? It should be handled by a press officer who has the media training to cope with the situation. Coaches get way too much exposure now, in the good old day the coach coached and the players played and that was it.
http://fromthebottomoftheruck.blogspot.com/
September 1st, 2010 at 3:22 pm
Reply to DavidS @ 2:37 pm:
I don’t see the exposed corrupt
ANC and other officials using the
avenues open to them, i.e. the
press ombudsman as a start,
suing for slander etc. (after all,
they don’t even have to pay for
the court cases!)
If it was not for the media you
and everybody else would have
known fookal about fookal – least
of all about the “predatory state”
(Vavi’s words) the country has
become.
September 1st, 2010 at 3:28 pm
Reply to Boertjie @ 3:22 pm:
I am amazed how normally sane people (black & now white) can support the media tribunal and new information laws.
September 1st, 2010 at 3:31 pm
Reply to Boertjie @ 3:17 pm:
Hang on…
You yourself mentioned they (journalists) did SA Rugby a ‘service’ by ensuring these guys resigned or was fired.
Of course they did not fire him, they don’t employ him, but you seem to suggest they play a massive part in the mood or opinion and ultimately decision to fire them – and you are right.
So it is okay to offer condolonces to the cop’s family (because he died) as has been done by other individuals (read News24 and Blue Bulls media releases) but not support Bees even without knowing the circumstances of who really was the victim? Then you are basically condemning Bees before he actually had his trial.
Because you automatically assume he is guilty.
Sorry I disagree, it is as PC to support the cops family as it is to support Bees at THIS CURRENT time.
The fact that the cop died does not remove the possibility that Bees might have been the victim, as much as it proves or remove the possibility that he is guilty.
They specifically stated they do not support the act (of killing).
And why can’t they support him in public, this guy is a friend of people in that team. Similar to who PDV votes for has nothing to do with his ability as coach.
Latching onto instances to discredit someone that has nothing to do with what he does, as a rugby coach, is a clear indication of having a vendetta against that person.
Their ability, or lack thereof to discredit him as a coach, says much more about their motives, and integrity, than it does about the person they are trying to discredit.
September 1st, 2010 at 3:36 pm
Reply to Boertjie @ 3:22 pm:
You know as well as I do that after Lothar Neethling’s case the media ombud is a toothless hag…
Retractions?
Ja three lines at the bottom of page 6 between the advert fr the massage parlour and Jimmy’s Pub&Grill soccer special..
Sorry Boer … you know who my wife works for and the stuff that’s been written about them on occasion… and she has personal experience of the media ombud being purposeless… AND OF COURSE with the insurance companies you have with the hotshot lawyers to cover the media getting them even THAT far is often a task only a company like an ABSA or some millionnaire can undertake… it’s like the idea of “justice for all” which means justice for those who can afford a decent lawyer and the poor whom the rich regard as worthy of their charity and screw the rest…
BUT as I said
For every corrupt politician the media has exposed (and in fifteen years of socalled freedom you can count them on your hands) there are a hundred ruined innocent people whom your profession cannot unfuck….
If the media is so concerned about our human rights… then where is the continued outcry over the bad black students who made white students crawl around like digs at Bloem? Yes as reported four weeks ago… where is the outcry at how this is swept under the carpet by John Robbie’s wet dream Jonathan Jansen…
Sorry the media is selective and opinionated and out to make money… ANC corruption? Ja… that happens AFTER they figure out they can make cash out of the story on the official… These days journos no longer even contact my wife for comment even though she has an open door policy and ALWAYS answers them… if the media is so concerned with the truth, why did nobody come out after the sensationalist ET story about sex with his killers and say… geez sorry guys… that was a lie we told… the truth is…
“We definitely talked about Bees in a team context. We feel for all South Africans and especially rugby players because a situation like this can happen to anybody. It is a tragic situation and we wish it on nobody. The team supports him 100 per cent, not on the deed but rather on the circumstances that led to the situation developing.”
As I said
In context that is not as bad as what the Australians are trying to make it out to be…
September 1st, 2010 at 3:39 pm
Reply to Bokhoring T @ 3:28 pm:
I don’t but the reckless freedom to write whatever the media wants that rsulted from the Vrye Weekblad cases MUST somehow be curbed…
All I ask is that the media be put to two rules
1. You must be able to PROVE what you write is the truth on a balance of probabilities.
2. Clearly identify opinion
The ONLY contentious thing in the Information Act is the wide definition of “National Interest”….
THAT IS ALL
September 1st, 2010 at 3:47 pm
Bokhoring and Boertjie
I am not trying to elicit a knee jerk reaction and accusations of being opposed to media freedom and some ANC supporting neo-Nazi fool.
I’m looking for debate on the issue.
I am firmly oppposed to total media freedom… because it creates the danger of the UK and US media.
I believe the “easy liability” and “privacy laws” of France and Germany are a far far better way to go about it…
And i do not believe the media is entirled to special protections… theirs should be the same as any person who exercises his rights to freedom of expression.
September 1st, 2010 at 3:51 pm
Reply to DavidS @ 3:47 pm:
I agree.
Having only related this to rugby related matters, my only gripe has ever been that with power, which they have, comes responsibility.
Too many times I think they are reckless not knowing (or knowing and doing it purposely) the influence they have on the general public.
September 1st, 2010 at 3:57 pm
Anycase, I am out of here.
September 1st, 2010 at 4:35 pm
Reply to DavidS @ 3:39 pm:
The ONLY contentious thing in the Information Act is the wide definition of “National Interest”….
======
And who decides what the ntional
interest is?
Right – the ANC. Like the Nats
before them.
You can bet none of the unmasked
corruption, lack of delivery etc.
is in the public’s interest.
DO YOURSELF A FAVOUR so that you
can at least SOUND like you know
what you are talking about:
http://www.presscouncil.org.za
Especially check LATEST NEWS
on the left.
September 1st, 2010 at 8:06 pm
Boertjie pay attention
I SAID “national interest” as defined so widely IS contentious…
So maybe you should at least make the effort to read what I said.
And yes… exactly how many people and nespapers are trumpeting
“Hahahahahah! Oasis group has been vindicated!”
Uhm ja
The same number of newspapers that retracted the kak they wrote about Eugene Terreblanche…
So do me a favour and get off the moral high horse
September 1st, 2010 at 9:17 pm
Reply to DavidS @ 8:06 pm:
Dawie – the WHOLE tribunal thing
is based on the ANC’s idea of
“national interest.” That is why
all people of stature are fighting
it.
If you can control the news it is
much cheaper than estabishing your
own newspaper – since they don’t
seem to be getting New Age off the
ground. (Lack of “capacity”, not
know-how of course.)
If you can keep the scandals and
corruption from the public it opens
the gates for the “predatory state”
to devour everything.
PS. Do have a look at that site -
you will find it interesting.
September 1st, 2010 at 11:38 pm
Despite the temptation to stay out of this whole sad and unfortunate sideshow, I feel sucked into it by the news it is making around the world. Being a South African people are asking what the hell is going on in my country and why is the coach becoming involved? I really don’t know and from what I read here neither do many people in SA know. When PdV says
“The team supports him 100%, not on the deed, but rather on the circumstances that led to the situation developing.”
..what circumstances is he talking about? Surely he is not supporting the late night drinking session which led to the drink-driving offence in the first place?
Or do people in SA know things about events that happened and they just don’t talk about them because the assumption is everybody knows?
All very confusing and a distraction from the test match in Bloem on Saturday which hardly gets a mention now.
September 2nd, 2010 at 3:07 am
I can recommend a good book:
Scandal Monger by William Saphire.
Issues around press freedom, muck raking and agendas in 1800 that seems to apply completely today if I read the above comments.
Long live press freedom.
September 2nd, 2010 at 4:03 am
Outwide – 11:38 ..what circumstances is he talking about? Surely he is not supporting the late night drinking session which led to the drink-driving offence in the first place?
Do we know that Bees had actually been drinking? He was not tested so all we have is an allegation made by some cops who allegedly were not on duty. Murky stuff.
Now it sounds as if the politicians are getting involved……can’t have a ‘not black enough’ coach even daring to suggest support for a white Afrikaner over a black policeman.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10670603
I wonder what clown Komphela could find to replace him?
September 2nd, 2010 at 4:26 am
Reply to mawm @ 4:03 am: Good point – I would have preferred to stay out of the thing altogether because as you point out, we don’t really know why old Bees was driving around at that time of the morning. The closing of ranks of players and policeman alike will probably lead to a denial of all the original explanation of how this unfortunate event unfolded. You have to feel sympathy for all involved and I suppose that is all PdV was trying to say in a rather clumsy way. So I feel for him too.
September 2nd, 2010 at 7:31 am
Some of you lefty apologists are even more deluded than I had thought if you think snor and his scores of ridiculously contradictive not too mention ignorant statements on both rugby and current affairs haven’t damaged the bok brand!
September 2nd, 2010 at 7:31 am
@ Outwide – PDV has a problem with shooting from the hip. I can’t imagine that he ever means anything nasty, it just always comes out as a verbal jumble which gets twisted every which way by the press.
He desperately needs plenty of media training….or an official spokesman.
Why was Bees driving around at that time of the morning? Who knows…..but it sounds as if it all started hours before. We’ll just have to wait for the full story.
September 2nd, 2010 at 7:38 am
Not a single Nz or aus rugby fan I encounter on a daily basis over here doesn’t see snor for what he is…
Just another rsa quota appointment and currently the biggest buffoon in world rugby!
September 2nd, 2010 at 7:47 am
All the media training in the world ain’t going to make this fool smarter nor give him the rugby brain required at this level…
But keep on apologizing for the man… Without okes like you the zuma’s et al could not run free as they do across all rsa sectors, sport being the least important…
September 2nd, 2010 at 8:43 am
Reply to mawm @ 4:03 am: Regardless of what happens in the final Tri-Nations test on Saturday, Peter de Villiers can no longer be tolerated,” blogger Jon Cardinelli wrote on the respected keo.co.za website”
September 2nd, 2010 at 8:49 am
Reply to Boertjie @ 9:17 pm:
Boertjie believe me I understand where you are coming from.
But I still disagree with you.
I still believe the ombud is toothless and i agree the Information Act has portions that are to the benefit of the ANC… but the truth is aside from the US and UK every single nation has some sort of media control… even countries like Canada and Germany and Australia (which are the wet dreams of our constitutional court judges as the example of what they on some ivory tower level think South Africa is) control their media.
As I said
TWO controls
1. Prove what you write is the truth
2. Clearly designate opinion as opposed to news reportage
______________________________
It does not help that the press ombud makes awards against newspapers two months and three months and in the case of appeals five/ six months after the damage was done… as I said the newspapers can’t unfuck people’s lives they ruin and THAT definbitely needs to be controlled
Oh and you know how I feel about opinions… freedom of the media is only as good as the ethics of the newspaper owner… and where the newspaper is a profit driven organization … well capitalism’s first victim is ethics…
September 2nd, 2010 at 9:10 am
Bryce – I’m not a PDV apologist (read some of my posts), but I do believe in being fair to people and balanced in my comments. And I don’t see what people like me have to do with Zuma running free…
Jacques – Keo has a history of stirring up the sh*t in SA rugby. This is stirring again. We will just have to wait and see what the politicians decide. As I said, to the pollies PDV is not black enough and he has had the temerity to defend a white Afrikaner rugby player instead of a black policeman.
BTW I don’t go along with Keo’s website being respected.
September 2nd, 2010 at 9:10 am
Reply to DavidS @ 8:49 am: There are problems with shoddy and faulty reporting, but the media tribunal and information act is not the answer. It is clear that the ANC is uncomfortable with all the unflattering (but true) news reports regarding corruption, lack of service delivery, etc, and would like to muzzle the press as much as possible
Our very own Zuma used the courts in the UK to sue a news paper who made unsubstantiated claims against him
Perhaps the ombudsman system can be improved by pulling in retired judges. I saw a report about the statistics regarding complaints, and it was not as bad as the ANC propaganda is making it out to be
September 2nd, 2010 at 10:36 am
Reply to mawm @ 9:10 am: Cardinelli wrote on the respected keo.co.za website
Was the funny part for me
September 2nd, 2010 at 11:00 am
Jacques – Oh, the bit in the NZ herald. Yes it made me laugh as well. Of course it is being trumpeted around the news on TVNZ as well. Keo is a traitor….finish and klaar.
September 2nd, 2010 at 12:08 pm
Keo is a snake who is only interested in self promotion.
The entire keo.co.za thing was just a way for him to get a job at HS after the Boks chased him away like a sleg fokken hond… the most divisive person ever to be involved with SA Rugby
September 2nd, 2010 at 12:46 pm
i believe there does need to be some sort of media tribunal (for want of a better word) that allows anybody to challenge the media individually or collectively…
as Morne says… with the power they have they need to be accountable and responsible…
and they are neither…
sadly… since the demise of the Rand Daily Mail… jounalism standards and media ethics have fallen dramatically and the fall accelerated after 1994 when ingratiating themselves with the new government became common practise…
news rooms at the RDM were staffed by cynical, intelligent, questioning, HONEST journos who had learnt the trade as appies (who made coffee for months or years before getting their first by-line) from others before them and held the TRUTH above all else… and always got their info from AT LEAST two independant sources…
now kids come from journo school at Rhodes… have no experience… have no undersatnding of the ethos of journalism… and have no one to learn from… and are not prepared to be appies and make coffee and watch veterans with decades of experience doing the job as it should be done…
an example of bad journalism in SA is the tragic suicide of Fiona Coyne in Fish Hoek… for most of the first day EVERY news agency, radio station, newspaper, TV, website… in the country reported she died in a car accident…!! On that day… NOT A SINGLE journalist in South Africa bothered to check the facts and simply cut and pasted what everyone else had written or said…
with something as easy to check and as devoid of political intrigue as that… everyone got it wrong… how much more easily can they get it wrong when people ARE pushing agendas and politics…?
the problem is we now have editors who shouldn’t even be junior reporters… and don’t know how to manage the process to ensure accuracy and TRUTH… they’d much rather go for the instant gratification of the sensationalist scoop… than the delayed gratification of being profession, correct and uncovering the TRUTH…
i have been on the receiving end of a sensational piece of fiction in a daily paper… no one ever contacted me for my opinion or even to fact check what happened…
an email to the editor went unanswered (to this day)… fortunately for me… several other people also wrote to the paper pointing out that the entire story was untrue… and a week later they published a tiny ‘apology’ and blamed it on a junior reporter’s enthusiasm… to which i wrote another email to the editor and asked wasn’t it his responsibilty and duty to ensure his reporters got ALL the facts… and interviewed ALL parties… (still waiting for a response to that too)…
so this paper and people just make up stuff… and don’t even bother to answer when questioned… it hurt me personally and businesswise… but i got over it…
fact is i would love to have the editor publicly apologise for NOT DOING HIS JOB and NOT UPHOLDING THE BASIC TENETS OF JOURNALISM and to name the ‘junior reporter’ who wrote under the cowardly STAFF REPORTER byline…
but i’m a nobody and can’t do squat…
but can you imagine what politicians want to do when they’re getting libelled left and right… ESPECIALLY if they are actually RIGHT…? (it does happen sometimes)…
there does need to be some sort of way to challenge the incompetence of the current state of news media in SA…
September 2nd, 2010 at 12:53 pm
Reply to UFO @ 12:46 pm:
And Boertjie can correct me if I am wrong, the current press ombudsman is a journalist, or ex-journalist?
I agree totally with what you say and that is the point I wanted to make.
I have seen this new generation of journalist in action personally (from source to print) and I was appaled in some instances in what I saw.
September 2nd, 2010 at 1:29 pm
Reply to Morné @ 12:53 pm:
yeah Morné… it just can’t be an individual… whatever his or her background… it must be made up of various individuals all from different and even opposing backgrounds… to ensure that the extremes cancel each other out and hopefully truth and reason will be found somewhere in the middle…
pick up ANY paper… look at ANY news-web… listen to ANY news broadcast these days… and the errors are indeed appalling…
eg: Naomi Campbell testifies in Charles Taylor’s trial that she received a bag of “dirty little stones…” I watched it live on CNN…
Mia Farrow testifies that Campbell not only knew Taylor would give her diamonds but boasted about getting lekker big ones… and her ‘dirty little stones’ was more a refelction of her disappointment that they weren’t shiny big diamonds… (i’m paraphrasing here…) so too did Campbell’s former PA testify to similar things as Farrow…
ETV reports that Naomi Campbell was “given a pouch of small pebbles”…!! and insinuates that these two white women are somehow anti-Campbell and making up the stories of her having received diamonds…!!
they don’t report on or try and shame Campbell for basically protecting a blood-thirsty war-lord… they don’t highlight the fact that Campbell found testifying against a man who had killed thousands of Africans was an “incovenience” she would not have tolerated had she not been subpoenaed…
instead… they attack the two witnesses… IMO purely because they were white and trying to tear down a famous black supermodel…
nothing to do with fact… nothing to do with the significance of the trial…
absolutely shocking…
September 2nd, 2010 at 1:47 pm
Reply to Morné @ 12:53 pm:
The chairman is Raymond Louw,
ex-editor of the renowned (read
UFO’s post) Rand Daily Mail.
(Which incidentally published itself
out of the market, despite it’s
leftist and black appeal.)
You can find all you need to know
at http://www.presscouncil.co.za
September 2nd, 2010 at 1:50 pm
Reply to Boertjie @ 1:47 pm:
Not questioning the man’s integrity, but it is a bit like the situations with union referees at the moment…
An ex-referee in charge of referee’s disciplining procedures…
September 2nd, 2010 at 2:24 pm
very surprised at that news (to me) Boertjie…
seems Louw’s sold-out and taken a retirement option… because he must see all this bad journalism going on and if he is half the journo he was he should make a plan to do something about it…
problem with the press council is that they purport to be a “self-regulatory mechanism”… which is utter crap…
they don’t do anything to self-regulate anything… a self-regulatory mechanism requires no outside input to operate… hence the term…
the press council… if it was/is ever going to be effective IMO… should be monitoring the press/news and INITIATING actions against individuals and organisations that do not get it right… if a weekly community paper published that mrs jones’ poodle is black, when in fact it’s white… the press council should be onto them and force them to publish a correction and warn them to get it right next time…
much like Rudy Giuliani’s clean up of New York… they didn’t tolerate the small things and that filtered up to the big things… if people get away with small stuff they try to get away with bigger stuff…
if jounalists make small errors and no one pings them for it… they won’t be too concerned about checking facts on bigger more important stories…
if the press council was to have any value… IMO… they should not be sitting on their bums putting the onus on the public to report cases of dishonest/inaccurate reporting… they should be proactively monitoring the press and jumping on offenders…
sure their ‘arbitration’ role is important… but if they proactively went after the press for everything and anything… the press would be a helluva lot more careful about how and what they reported…
and then the ‘aribtration’ role of the council would become a lot less necessary…
September 2nd, 2010 at 2:30 pm
excuse all the digital dyslexia…
September 2nd, 2010 at 3:33 pm
Reply to UFO @ 2:24 pm:
I have an idea there is also
a retired judge in the mix
when it gets that far.
One of the latest findings was
against Debra Patta, who had to
make a very public retraction and
apology.
I’m not sure where – if anywhere -
the “don’t touch me on my studio”
episode is going.
This was a case of a very biased
and unprofessional interviewee
and a guy from the FF+ losing his
temper because she kept on
interrupting him.
Because she was black and he was
white and FF+ on top of it it
seemed most if not all sympathy
was with her.
Another case of PC, which is the
biggest cancer in this society.
I work part time with a newspaper
and I can assure you that we go to
great lenghts to check the accuracy
of stories – and have an apologies
column when mistakes are made.
(In many cases the info obtained
from the police turns out to be
wrong. Recently there wasa case
that involved a “middle aged male”,
which turned out to be a very much
ageing female.)
There is also an open line with a
lawyer firm when there is doubt
regarding blasphemy etc.
Tabloids and Sunday papers tread
a much more dangerous line.
My own daughter recently won a
case – with cost – against one
of them.
September 2nd, 2010 at 3:47 pm
Reply to Boertjie @ 3:33 pm:
the story i mentioned didn’t involve the police… was a just a scumbag journalist making kak… and was one the ‘respected’ dailies… one of the ‘respected’ editors…
well done to your daughter… maybe having dad involved in the press was of help to her…?? most people… me included… haven’t got the time… money… inclination… or energy to fight these things…
it’s great if you win with costs… but you still need to shell the costs up-front and if you don’t win…?? and they never take into account the time it takes away from a job you have to have and do to pay bills at the end of the month…
but sincere respect to your daughter for going the whole hog… win or lose… the fact that she won is the ice-cream on the waffle…
September 2nd, 2010 at 4:40 pm
Reply to UFO @ 3:47 pm:
Example: Butch Lochner passing away.
Young, inexperienced journo gets
hold of a daughter.
In the end there were still
mistakes:
1. He died at home.
No. Vredenburg hospital.
2. He died from Alzheimer.
No. Pneumonia.
Now how many relatives do you
think she should have checked
the facts with?
(She also got the spelling of
the daughter’s name wrong –
sin #1 that is avoidable.)
The bit about his career was
spot on, because she was told
what source to find it in.
The media IS in dire straits
because it does not want to
pay for seasoned journos.
The internet is part of the
problem casuing smaller profits
and working capital. And the
bean counters are calling the shots.
So there is a huge turnover and
little experience.
It’s very different to when I
started.
At year end there was a nice
profit. The editor – one of the
greats in his trade – was quite
perturbed.
“We should not be making such
huge profits – we’re in the game
to produce a decent paper, not
profits.”
I’ll leave you with that sobering
thought.
September 2nd, 2010 at 5:50 pm
The media IS in dire straits
because it does not want to
pay for seasoned journos.
Who end up working in PR and Communications making fat wads of cash
September 3rd, 2010 at 3:32 am
don’t fire him, he has made the boks the most entertaining team in world rugby, things just wont be the same without him.
September 3rd, 2010 at 4:09 am
Reply to UFO @ 1:29 pm:
Whilst the real story was, why did Charles Taylor get an invite to a Mandela dinner?
September 3rd, 2010 at 8:52 am
Reply to fyndraai @ 4:09 am:
Oh because you see the nasty white racist bastards of hague wanted to *shock and horror* put him on trial for crimes against humanity… the same as Ali Al Bashir… and we all know that’s just for white people like Slobodan Milosovic and Radovan Karadzic… and those apartheid pulling bastards not Africans…
Hence
The Africans closed ranks and protected Charlie from justice
Like they protect the wanted Haitian leader Jean Bertrand Aristide
And Idi Main
And now the AU refuses to execute the arrest warrant againt Ali Al Bashir… after all arretsing and African for crimes against humanity is just not on…
Africa’s problem is tat it has too many Africans in it
Like I always say
Nelson Mandela gave Jean Bertrand Aristide sanctuary, welcomed Castro, Gaddaffi and made the country safe for Charles Taylor and lastly when offered the opportunity to be released by PW Botha in 1987 on condition of swearing off violence as a means to change…. refused… yup sure was a man of peace… who went to jail not for what he believed but because he committed terrorism.
September 3rd, 2010 at 8:59 am
Reply to BokRav @ 3:32 am:
Somewhat similar to the way your insular fantasies are viewed here at RW…
September 3rd, 2010 at 8:59 am
Reply to BokRav @ 3:32 am:
Somewhat similar to the way your insular fantasies are viewed here at RW…
Rather go find yourself a nice sheep to “shear”
September 3rd, 2010 at 9:08 am
Of course when he was sayting those things in 2009 your mouths were open slack jawed in hillbilly hell of jealousy
September 3rd, 2010 at 9:46 am
Reply to fyndraai @ 4:09 am:
quite right…
although to be fair… i don’t think Taylor had ‘emerged’ as the thug he is yet… that dinner was 14 years ago after all…
Reply to DavidS @ 8:52 am:
hmmm… strange then that taylor IS on trial and they have indicted Al Bashir…
if you really believe that PW that was the only condition PW made for his release and the only reason Mandela refused… you’re more anive than i thought…
but hey… believe what you do… i know you’re not gonna change you mind about anything…
Reply to Boertjie @ 4:40 pm:
that illustrates my above points…
young journo should be trying to find a story not simply gathering a few facts for an obit… said journo looks (to me) like just going through the motions… doing just enough to get article finished… you only contact one child when there is only one child… should contact everyone you can… you never know who’ll give you the gem the makes the story a memorable one instead of just a space filler…
in the old days the journo would have contacted everyone…
the thing about AT LEAST TWO sources is that for when sources are hard to come by with controversial stories… but if, as in this case there are other family members contact them all… be thorough and get as much information as possible… too much info is better than enough… even if you don’t use it all or can’t fit it all in… that info gives the journo a more solid and informed perspective from which to write…
sorry… just my take…