Brendan Venter: two views of THAT interview…

December 19, 2010
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Okay so I subscribe to The Star newspaper. Okay my wife does… for business reasons apparently. They dealt with the Breandan Venter interview by asking two columnists to provide opinions.

On Saturday I had the displeasure of reading John Robbie’s “views” which are no more than mindless meanderings of an aged deejay his employers keep on because they realize that there are no other jobs available for second rate retired Irish scrumhalves with high pitched whiny voices in South Africa.

This genius reckons that Brendan Venter’s approach is the wrong one, especially since he then proceeds to concoct a story that Edward Griffiths and Martin Gillingham the interviewer, all being formerly based in SA must have worked together in some sense to make the interview where Venter proceeded to repeat the questions he was asked  back at the interviewer without answering anything. According to him the BBC had severely criticized Venter and this was the end of story.

Says the ever wise Robbie that all Venter has done is enhance the world’s views that we are “whiners” and we could take a leaf from New Zealand. THEY were the victims of atrocious refereeing in 2007 quarterfinals and what did they do? Nothing… they just put their heads down and worked towards 2011… Okay I laughed out loud after that! These guys no longer need to whine because they OWN the referees.

Just as a matter of interest I recall for the benefit of Mister Robbie in 2009 how refereeing boss Paddy ‘O Brian publicly apologized to New Zealand because of Stuart Dickinson’s terrible refereeing in a test match… but nevertheless the idea that New Zealand “never whines” is a figment of his imagination, and if I may add, given his penchant for pretending not to see race colors it must be because the New Zealanders wear black and Mister Robbie is an arch liberal… Perhaps if he went to a forum like TSF he’ll see Kiwis whinge about the 1995 World Cup and the elusive “Suzie” as though it happened yesterday, how the “intercept” of Stirling Mortlock was the result of him being offsides in 2003, how the French were allowed to escape with murder in 1999 and how Australia similarly cheated in 1992. Yes they even claim the 1998 3N try of James Dalton in Durban was not a try at all and they were cheated by the ref!

Anyway on to Peter Bills (yes he who revs my engine with unimaginable tripe about our rugby) also writes a piece on the same occurrence and for a change I agree with him. That is rare enough a something for me to repeat it. Bills says that Venter is an intelligent bloke. The interview was the perfect response to ERC’s oppressive “communist” management of European rugby. He then says that Venter was fined R250 000 for expressing his honest views: views which were not even all that controversial. Amazingly the ERC has shown its own inability to accept criticism by issuing a statement saying they hope Venter gives better interviews in future…. or else…

Truth is that ERC refuse anyone the right to respond to criticism of them and Bills correctly identifies them as despotic fools incapable of accepting any words not in keeping with their own views. Robbie would do well to learn a bit about his subject before he makes uninformed comments. Opinions are like rear ends… every one has them… and the smells they produce stink but nevertheless some are more noxious than others. I find Robbie’s opinions unencumbered by the weight of facts… something he should leave to his radio show where he could express his opinions as apposite to his callers and sound sharp… not in papers where he has to take a standpoint and defend it with facts…. not fantasy.

Make a note.

DavidS agrees with Peter Bills… it’s a rare happening.

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81 Comments

  1. avatar DavidS says:
    December 19th, 2010 at 10:22 am

    If someone deserves to run into a nasty crowd of muggers in an abandoned sidestreet it’s John Robbie

  2. avatar Boertjie says:
    December 19th, 2010 at 10:46 am

    The interview was the perfect response to ERC’s oppressive “communist” management of European rugby.
    ========
    :job:

  3. avatar bryce_in_oz says:
    December 19th, 2010 at 11:25 am

    Reply to DavidS @ 10:22 am:
    Bit harsh eh…

    I’m still surprised Venter paid the fine… I most certainly would never have!

  4. avatar Boertjie says:
    December 19th, 2010 at 11:57 am

    ABs don’t whine :?:

    Old joke adapted:

    Difference between a Boeing and the ABs -
    the Boeing stops whining after it landed.

  5. avatar Boertjie says:
    December 19th, 2010 at 12:01 pm

    NEWS ITEM

    Prime Minister Morgan Tsvangirai tried to get retired South African president Nelson Mandela to help in the Zimbabwean crisis 10 years ago but failed.
    ======
    Old club solidarity.
    Lots of the guilt can be put at the feet of the ANC.

    The United Nations offered Zimbabwe President Robert Mugabe a retirement package and safe haven overseas if he agreed to stand down, according to a US diplomatic cable revealed by WikiLeaks.
    =====
    Power hungry monkey.

  6. avatar Boertjie says:
    December 19th, 2010 at 12:37 pm

    Rietkappers 277/6 – Lunch Day 4

    Even Tsotsobe takes a wicket.

    :bulls supporter:
    should be singing before the day is out.

    Good to see the chokers putting it together.

  7. avatar DavidS says:
    December 19th, 2010 at 12:52 pm

    Reply to Boertjie @ 12:37 pm:

    202 runs behind and four poles standing…

    It most assuredly appears that the Hindians are going to be receiving a terrible spanking…

  8. avatar DavidS says:
    December 19th, 2010 at 1:02 pm

    Frans Steyn reckons SA clubs can learn a thing or two from overseas clubs when it comes to player management…

    Will put the piece up as soon as my wife finishes the paper…

    )-;

  9. avatar DavidS says:
    December 19th, 2010 at 1:08 pm

    Well India is on the verge of getting spanked, the Poms have already started to soothe the stinging red stripes singed into their pasty white bottoms in the sea water of Perth after a severe caning from Australia

    Aus 268 and 309

    Eng 187 and 123

    ___________________________________

    Aus won by 267 runs.

    Ryan Harris 5/26 in 7 overs the primary desrtuction wreaker

  10. avatar bryce_in_oz says:
    December 19th, 2010 at 1:31 pm

    Reply to DavidS @ 1:02 pm:

    He’s the boy in “The Emperor’s New Clothes”… he called Snor out for what he is… a quota coach whose only ‘purported’ strength is nothing but a sham…

  11. avatar DavidS says:
    December 19th, 2010 at 1:37 pm

    Reply to bryce_in_oz @ 1:31 pm:

    Yup

    And then a whole gang of squealing De Villiers supporters jumped up and immediately condemned Frans Steyn and then pretended not to know when yours truly showed them how wrong they were…

    I especially recalled one discussion when Morne and Ollie claimed that Zane Kirchner was as good / better…

  12. avatar Boertjie says:
    December 19th, 2010 at 1:42 pm

    Reply to DavidS @ 1:37 pm:

    Well, either Tina is playing out of position or he is being managed badly – or both – for he hasn’t done anything for the Boks in 2010 that impressed me.

    Dhoni and Tendulkar can take the match into tomorrow.

  13. avatar DavidS says:
    December 19th, 2010 at 2:06 pm

    Reply to Boertjie @ 1:42 pm:

    Exactly

    He spends the whole season at 12 in racing

    Then gets dragged to SA after a barney between the Bok management and his club with the coach and Andy Maritoss making all sorts of wild unproven allegations, his national coach doing the same… and then he gets slotted in at wherever the “coats” wants

    13,
    10
    14
    15

    You name it

    Then gets expected to play outstandingly and of position against top opposition and perform immediately… even as he “coats” has made all sorts of unproven contentions against him

    To claim that Gio Aplon or Zane Kirchner are as good as he is?

    KAK… he’s been by far the best fifteen to play for SA since Montgomery’s retirement.

    What does he need to do to impress you?

  14. avatar Boertjie says:
    December 19th, 2010 at 2:20 pm

    Reply to DavidS @ 2:06 pm:

    What does he need to do to impress you?
    ======
    Answer: Perform.

    BTW in 2010 he played 3 tests at 15, three at 13 – none at 10 or 14.

  15. avatar Boertjie says:
    December 19th, 2010 at 2:47 pm

    Reply to Boertjie @ 2:20 pm:

    Unless you add that Matfield, Spies and CJ also “played” at 12, 13, 14.

  16. avatar DavidS says:
    December 19th, 2010 at 5:38 pm

    Reply to Boertjie @ 2:20 pm:

    In the interview he says that during the two tests against Scotland and England he was changed to wing and fullback and inside center and even flyhalf.

    So maybe he STARTED in certain positions but with the moustachioed moron shifting players with unfathomable substitutions as the game goes on so that his chosen quotas can get game time Steyn may have started in certain positions but he certainly did not end the game playing there…

    That is what he said during his interview.

  17. avatar DavidS says:
    December 19th, 2010 at 5:39 pm

    Reply to Boertjie @ 2:20 pm:

    Correct would be

    He started 3 tests at 15

    And he started 3 tests at 13

  18. avatar Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes says:
    December 19th, 2010 at 5:43 pm

    The only thing that can come from acting like an idiot is that people may think you are one.

    Brendan Venter acted like an idiot in that interview.

  19. avatar Morné says:
    December 19th, 2010 at 6:29 pm

    Reply to Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes @ 5:43 pm:

    I agree, you lose the higher ground, and he did.

  20. avatar cab says:
    December 19th, 2010 at 7:15 pm

    John Robbie is right about Venter being a bad loser, but wrong about the kiwis, who can bitch about the refs with the best of them. poor barnesie was nearly ruined, ag shame.

  21. avatar Morné says:
    December 19th, 2010 at 7:35 pm

    Reply to cab @ 7:15 pm:

    I have read just about every single biography of rugby players. John Robbie’s still rates as one of the best.

  22. avatar DavidS says:
    December 19th, 2010 at 7:54 pm

    Reply to Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes @ 5:43 pm:

    Nope

    Planned sarcasm aimed at making others look like idiots.

    Sorry… I think what he did was a stroke of genius, particularly when the media and everyone else knows that

    1. He is an outspoken person; and

    2. He is a highly intelligent person

    He has achieved his aim which was to make fun of the powers that be.

    Reply to Morné @ 7:35 pm:

    Says nothing about whether he is a good person or not. I read “Long Walk to Freedom” and still thought FW De Klerk’s biography was better… doesn’t mean he was a better person than Mandela… Hey who knows… maybe Justin Bieber’s biography is fantastic…. does that make me want to suck his…. no it doesn’t… I sometimes listen to John Robbie on Radio 702… he’s an idiot…

  23. avatar Boertjie says:
    December 19th, 2010 at 7:58 pm

    Reply to DavidS @ 5:39 pm:

    Well, with bad coverage, bad commentary and the Bok backs hardly moving – coupled to my own bad eyesight maybe – it was hard to spot Tina at 12 and 15.

    I thought Brendan Venter was hillarious and selected the best way to prove his point.

  24. avatar Morné says:
    December 19th, 2010 at 8:02 pm

    Reply to DavidS @ 7:54 pm:

    Have you read it?

  25. avatar DavidS says:
    December 19th, 2010 at 8:05 pm

    Reply to Morné @ 8:02 pm:

    As I said

    I don’t care for it because I don’t like the person.

    It may be excellent but I STILL don’t like the person John Robbie, which is the point I was trying to illustrate by contrasting FW De Klerk and Nelson Mandela’s respective biographies.

    I detest De Klerk but his biography was better than Long Walk to Freedom.

    Whether I have read it or not is immaterial to my judgement of John Robbie as an annoying whining talkshow host who has overstayed his welcome like white liberalism…

  26. avatar Morné says:
    December 19th, 2010 at 8:09 pm

    Reply to DavidS @ 8:05 pm:

    And a biography is a biography right?

    I could not care much for the De klerk and Mandela ones, I don’t care about politics.

    but reading ones about rugby, and rugby personalities, John Robbie’s was one of the best accounts of a rugby career I have ever read.

    You choose not to read it because you don’t like the person.

    I say make more of an effort to read the ones about people you don’t like…

  27. avatar Morné says:
    December 19th, 2010 at 8:10 pm

    I can send you my copy.

  28. avatar cab says:
    December 19th, 2010 at 9:13 pm

    Reply to Morné @ 7:35 pm:
    oh really, i might keep an eye out for that. i like john robbie since the days he played scrummie for tvl.

  29. avatar Boertjie says:
    December 19th, 2010 at 9:47 pm

    Best biography I’ve read was possibly the one on Kepler Wessels.

    Also Bob Hewitt – The Bad Boy of Tennis. Maybe because I met him and had a fewe long chats.

    The worst one – also with the most mistakes – is the one on Frik.

  30. avatar Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes says:
    December 19th, 2010 at 11:56 pm

    His sarcasm may look brilliant here, but how does it look to the people that count? Media and fans in Europe. I doubt they are as impressed. As an outsider his chances of changing the system is very slim.

    Best to keep your dignity intact. Choose your battles.

  31. avatar Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes says:
    December 20th, 2010 at 12:04 am

    We seem to be confusing terms here.

    bi·og·ra·phy
    An account of a person’s life written, composed, or produced by another

    au·to·bi·og·ra·phy
    The biography of a person written by that person.

    The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

  32. avatar Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes says:
    December 20th, 2010 at 3:38 am

    A pearler for our history buffs. The famous excerpt from Stanley’s: How I Found Dr. Livingston. Found it in, The White Nile, by Alan Moorehead, 1960. Great read.

    So I did that which I thought was most dignified. I pushed back the crowds, and, passing from the rear, walked down a living avenue of people until I came in front of the semicircle of Arabs, in the front of which stood the white man with the grey beard. As I advanced slowly towards him, I noticed he was pale, looked wearied, had a grey beard, wore a bluish cap with a faded gold band round it, had on a red-sleeved waistcoat and a pair of grey tweed trousers. I would have run to him, only I was a coward in the presence of such a mob—would have embraced him, only he being an Englishman, I did not know how he would receive me; so I did what cowardice and false pride suggested was the best thing—walked deliberately to him, took off my hat, and said:—
    “Dr. Livingstone, I presume?” “Yes,” said he, with a kind smile, lifting his cap slightly.

    I replace my hat on my head, and he puts on his cap, and we both grasp hands, and I then say aloud:
    “I thank God, Doctor, I have been permitted to see you.” He answered, “I feel thankful that I am here to welcome you.”

  33. avatar DavidS says:
    December 20th, 2010 at 9:14 am

    Reply to Morné @ 8:09 pm:

    I read Mein Kampf…

    Rambling kak from a madman…

    And seemingly written to have a generation of quotes… not surprising the guy managed to achieve his goals… he was one driven SOB. If he had not failed I’d have thought every business prof would be quoting some of his sayings…

    Anyway immaterial… he was a madman with some streaks of genius…

  34. avatar cab says:
    December 20th, 2010 at 12:47 pm

    hitler was not only a bigot, but an idiot, warmonger and a coward.

    and an ugly little runt with a moustache who needed a :Rule 9:

  35. avatar DavidS says:
    December 20th, 2010 at 6:41 pm

    Reply to cab @ 12:47 pm:

    The point though is that Mein Kampf is a better read than Churchill’s rambling History of the World biography but who was the truly evil madman? Hitler

    same with Mao’s Little Red Book… it’s actually quite a boppy easy read in English but Mao killed the second most people in history after Joseph Stalin!

    Just because someone writes a good book does not make them a nice person

    ps.

    Hitler was a dispatch runner in WW1 and earned the Iron Cross First Class as an NCO which is an honour reserved for the bravery of officers except in circumstances of exceptional bravery…

    Mad
    Racist
    Evil
    Crazy
    Megalomaniac

    But DEFINITELY not a coward

  36. avatar cab says:
    December 20th, 2010 at 7:15 pm

    Reply to DavidS @ 6:41 pm:
    he was a coward, when the game was up he done himself in in his wee bunker, rather than face the consequences, a total cowardly mangey dog. that he was a runner doesn’t surprise me.

    he was also a fool, not only with his plainly idiotic supremacy ideals when supposed inferiors like jesse owens and albert einstein rubbed his face in it, but a complete doos who thought he could win a war on 2 fronts. he also thought the brits would join with him instead they stufed him up good and proper.

    if you going to pick someone to be controversial about, rather try convince us the kublai kahn was ghandhi.

  37. avatar Boertjie says:
    December 20th, 2010 at 8:03 pm

    Reply to cab @ 7:15 pm:

    Just for the record:
    Owens said before his death that the story that Hitler refused to shake his hand is a piece of bullshit propaganda.

  38. avatar DavidS says:
    December 20th, 2010 at 9:44 pm

    Reply to cab @ 7:15 pm:

    You’re trying to wind me up again

    Unfortunately you don’t know what you are talking about so arguing with your kneejerk airheaded uninformed liberalism serves no logical purpose…

    You’ll maar have to keep thinking that sticking a gun into your mouth and fighting till the end does not take courage or that only an idiot would be able to convince the second most powerful nation in the world to follow him 100%

    Oh and Hitler loudly applauded Owens’ win.

    He was a nationalist not a racist… but you won’t know what that means…

    Cheers cab… argue with the empty air in your head… not my knowledge

  39. avatar cab says:
    December 20th, 2010 at 10:10 pm

    oh and one other thing
    merry xmas to u all.
    dankie
    H

  40. avatar Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes says:
    December 21st, 2010 at 1:29 am

    According to wikipedia:

    “….and this rarer award was commonly awarded to those posted to regimental headquarters, such as Hitler, who had more contact with more senior officers than combat soldiers.[33]”

    So much for bravery. Probably awarded for “services rendered”.

    “Yet because the regimental staff thought Hitler lacked leadership skills, he was never promoted to Unteroffizier”

    I guess they got it wrong there. Maybe not. If he had real leadership skills his system would have lasted more than 12 years

    I see he was also suicidal after the failed beer hall putsch.

  41. avatar Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes says:
    December 21st, 2010 at 1:33 am

    Hitler expressed his feelings about Owens and Africans in private. Albert Speer, Hitler’s architect and later war armaments minister, recollected:
    Each of the German victories, and there were a surprising number of these, made him happy, but he was highly annoyed by the series of triumphs by the marvelous colored American runner, Jesse Owens. People whose antecedents came from the jungle were primitive, Hitler said with a shrug; their physiques were stronger than those of civilized whites and hence should be excluded from future games.[12]

  42. avatar bryce_in_oz says:
    December 21st, 2010 at 5:04 am

    Say what you want… even as a 10yr old interested in world history… Mein Kampf was and still is a must read…

  43. avatar Boertjie says:
    December 21st, 2010 at 9:58 am

    Considering all the literature around Hitler he must be regarded as the most influential figure of the 20th Century.
    Top of the baddies to, though Stalin and Mau and Pol Pot all deserves mentions.
    Who else?

  44. avatar Ollie says:
    December 21st, 2010 at 10:46 am

    Reply to Boertjie @ 9:58 am:

    The end of the 20th century also saw the birth of a new baddie, dear old Bob

  45. avatar Boertjie says:
    December 21st, 2010 at 11:59 am

    Reply to Ollie @ 10:46 am:

    And the ANC government :wink:

    8 000 baby deaths in hospitals –
    and that was for the first five
    months of the year.

    Money budgeted to create 800 000 jobs not spent.

    Not to mention all the corruption.

  46. avatar Duiwel says:
    December 21st, 2010 at 1:30 pm

    Ja-ja,
    good to see that some things
    don’t change.

  47. avatar Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes says:
    December 21st, 2010 at 2:09 pm

    Reply to bryce_in_oz @ 5:04 am:

    Probably only because that is all a 10yr old can understand.

    Some never move on….. :-)

  48. avatar Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes says:
    December 21st, 2010 at 2:14 pm

    Reply to Boertjie @ 9:58 am:

    I’d say Marx was the person who most influenced the 20th century and then maybe Lenin or Stalin must have been the most influential persons of the 20th century.

  49. avatar Boertjie says:
    December 21st, 2010 at 4:13 pm

    Reply to Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes @ 2:14 pm:

    Well, Stalin was responsible – according to some – for the death of 30 million peasants.

    Spoke to a Chinese woman who is married to a friend. The damage caused by Mau – or actually his wife, I believe – has changed the whole Chinese psyche.

    Strange how Stalin is still heralded by many Russkis.

  50. avatar Boertjie says:
    December 21st, 2010 at 4:48 pm

    Can you believe it:

    There’s a Fyndraai Restaurant near Franschhoek.
    :muahaha:

    I suppose it’s lost on the English folk and tourists.

  51. avatar cab says:
    December 21st, 2010 at 6:33 pm

    its lost on me too, what does fyndraai mean, sounds like a paul harris delivery, geendraai.

  52. avatar DavidS says:
    December 21st, 2010 at 6:54 pm

    Owens himself claimed Hitler treated him respectfully.

    As for the rear echelon medal award that is a theory developed by a Jewish “scholar” same as the whole “Hitler had syphilis” idea as well as the “Hitler was part Jewish” nonsense.

    Sorry

    As I said before

    The guy was as evil as can be

    BUT there are immense numbers of lies about him and those are some.

    The Wiki entry is disputed

    Reply to Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes @ 2:14 pm:

    Uhm

    How can Marx be the most influential man of the 20 th century when he died in the 19th century.

    Hitler shaped modern Europe and must be reckoned as the most influential figure of the 20th Century.

    Stalin was a far more evil man than Hitler but never acknowledged.

    Do yourself a favour and google something called Holodomor.

    THAT was a true Holocaust of more than six million people intentionally murdered and in less time than Hitler managed…

    Stalin murdered 40 million of his own citizens… Hitler could not manage to kill 40 million people…

  53. avatar DavidS says:
    December 21st, 2010 at 7:00 pm

    Hitler’s evil machinations for a united Europe against communism came true but in exactly the opposite way he planned. Europe realized the horror of internecine fighting and united behind the united states, terminating the horror of autocracy and militarist fascism and Prussian militarism forever whilst creating perversely a powerful united democratic front against Communism.

  54. avatar Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes says:
    December 21st, 2010 at 7:01 pm

    Reply to cab @ 6:33 pm:

    Brand:
    Fyndraai is a state of mind.

    Morne:
    An analysis of fyndraai will show it is related to performance and may be improved with training.

    Dawie:
    Fyndraai, is as jy kom, ek sê.

    Boertjie:
    I remember when fyndraai was much better.

    Cab:
    Net as ek by fyndraai kom, toe vang die ram ons.

  55. avatar Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes says:
    December 21st, 2010 at 7:04 pm

    Reply to DavidS @ 6:54 pm:

    Maybe you should read my post again.
    Slowly this time.

  56. avatar DavidS says:
    December 21st, 2010 at 7:05 pm

    In the final analysis the Soviet ssytm was NOT Marxist and neither was that of the blocs of China, Vietnam and Yugoslavia. Their failure negates the contention that Marx was the most influential character of the 20th century even if that nonsensical contention is accepted.

    At the end of the 20th century the USSR no longer existed, Yugoslavia was a broken up set of ethnic state democracies and Eastern Europe all out of Soviet communism’s sphere.

    China was moving to a free market system and Vietnam was site for manufacture used by top Western corporations.

    Marxism in China was no longer Marxist based but Maoist based and the one semi Marxist state North Korea had achieved the pariah status of Rhodesia in post UDI days.

  57. avatar DavidS says:
    December 21st, 2010 at 7:13 pm

    Reply to Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes @ 7:04 pm:

    I did

    I stand by what I said…

    Marxism was not influential on 20th century politics.

    I would say Americanist Free Market Consumerist-Capitalism was the most influential philosophy of the 20th century…. not Marxism.

    At the end of the 20th century it had affected the century far more than Marx had.

    ps.

    Morne

    STATISTICALLY more training and better vision would improve Fyndraai

  58. avatar DavidS says:
    December 21st, 2010 at 7:25 pm

    It’s the same as people who are kind of sympathetic to communism expounding its merits but when one finally looks at 20th century culture and customs it is clear that Communism lost its ideological war with Free Market capitalism in every single way.

    same as the contention of guerrilla warfare on some scale being a successful system of warfare. Once carefully analyzed, it is clear that every single guerrilla war has failed.

  59. avatar cab says:
    December 21st, 2010 at 7:28 pm

    stalin was another murderous bastard, but was a veritable saint compared to hitler.

    the reasons hitler is so hated as being the most evil of murderous bastard was because he caused WWII, the most bloody conflict in human history, an agressive war for lebensraum which killed over 60 million and a holocaust whose final solution was the systematic identification and execution of every jew they could find.

    holodomor was a completely seperate event to stalin’s great purge. there was an famine but the reason the ukrainians were so upset is cause stalinist russia failed to allocate humanitarian aid.

    the great purge was the process by which stalin executed or shipped off to the gulag all opponents and dissidents to his totalitarian regime.

    the allies teamed up with stalin cos they had no other choice, and he was the lesser of two evils.

  60. avatar DavidS says:
    December 21st, 2010 at 7:41 pm

    holodomor was a completely seperate event to stalin’s great purge. there was an famine but the reason the ukrainians were so upset is cause stalinist russia failed to allocate humanitarian aid.

    Jeeeeezuz

    And you have the gall to call ME a historical revisionist!!!!!!

    The famine, like the Ethiopian one, was entirely man caused…. and that man was Stalin

  61. avatar cab says:
    December 21st, 2010 at 7:46 pm

    Reply to Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes @ 7:01 pm:
    :lol: u afr okes are rude buggers, ek gaan bid vir jou.

  62. avatar cab says:
    December 21st, 2010 at 8:06 pm

    the famine was probably man-caused, and probably due to stalin trying to drive his policy of collectivisation by confiscating food from the ukranian peasants, the usual stupid ideologists policies that ppl stick to unflinchingly despite being aware of their consequens, but whether this was done to intentionally wipe the ukranians out is a totally differnt thing, which is precisely and unequivocally what hitler set out to do.

    But i am totally in agreement that stalin was a murdering bastard.

  63. avatar cab says:
    December 21st, 2010 at 8:07 pm

    aware = unaware.

  64. avatar Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes says:
    December 21st, 2010 at 8:29 pm

    Reply to cab @ 8:06 pm:

    I’ve just started reading, Bloodlands, by Timothy Schneider. Very interesting and very well written.

  65. avatar Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes says:
    December 21st, 2010 at 8:32 pm

    Reply to DavidS @ 7:13 pm:

    Good one.

    Morne normally have long sentences. How about?

    Careful statistical analysis will disprove the commonly held belief that solo visits to Fyndraai cause blindness.

  66. avatar Boertjie says:
    December 21st, 2010 at 8:41 pm

    Reply to cab @ 7:46 pm:

    Ja, ek het nie gedink ‘n hanskakie sal weet van Fyndraai nie.

    This caused havoc at one of the Stellenbosch “circus” events when potential SRC candidates put forward their policies.

    One guy was going to tar the paths leading up to female recisenses so that the guys won’t have dusty shoes. Etc., etc.

    So this guy in the audience brought the house down with:

    “Gaan jy die fyn draai ook teer?”

  67. avatar Boertjie says:
    December 21st, 2010 at 8:42 pm

    Currently reading “Selling Hitler” – about the forged Hitler diaries and the involvement of Stern magazine.

  68. avatar Boertjie says:
    December 21st, 2010 at 8:43 pm

    EN DAWIE – ek dink dit was jy?

    Ek het twee boeke van Deneys Reitz in die hande gekry.

  69. avatar Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes says:
    December 21st, 2010 at 8:50 pm

    Reply to DavidS @ 7:05 pm:

    While it is true that nobody implemented all his ideas, it is also true that everybody implemented some of his ideas.
    The fact that it proved unworkable by the end of the century does not take away his influence on it.
    Which makes him, in my opinion, the person that most influenced the 20th century, which is not the same thing as the most influential person of the 20th century.

    American spent most of the century moving towards more democracy and human rights and away from the free market, so I’d say that is where their biggest influence lay.

  70. avatar Duiwel says:
    December 21st, 2010 at 8:51 pm

    Should hav left the Hun and the Mongols destroy each other
    and exterminated whats left.

  71. avatar Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes says:
    December 21st, 2010 at 8:55 pm

    Reply to Boertjie @ 8:43 pm:

    Was ek. Het laasjaar die trilogie gelees.

    Adrift on the Open Veld.
    Trekking On.
    No Outspan.

    Baie goed maar ek dink hy vertel ‘n hele paar wolhaarstories.

  72. avatar Boertjie says:
    December 21st, 2010 at 9:36 pm

    Reply to Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes @ 8:55 pm:

    Ek het Commando en Die Bittereinders.

    Sy pa was natuurlik die skepper van “Klaas Geswind en Sy Perd” – briljante omdigting van ‘n Burns-gedig – en talle ander.

  73. avatar Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes says:
    December 21st, 2010 at 9:45 pm

    Reply to Boertjie @ 9:36 pm:

    Miskien is dit

    Commando
    Trekking On.
    No Outspan.
    en die 3 saam is Adrift on the Open veld.

    Ek het dit as een boek laasjaar die tyd gekry. Hy spog heelwat oor sy pa en the Burns vertalings. Ook ‘n snaakse storie oor die groep Scotte wat Amsterdam (Tvl) gevind het en dit iets soos New Burnia wou noem, maar Paul Kruger het gesê hy duld nie kaffername nie en so is dit toe Amsterdam.

  74. avatar Treehugger says:
    December 21st, 2010 at 9:48 pm

    Must say i first thought he was being a twit when i first saw it on Sky News, but some one on keo explained why he did it and i changed my mind and thought excellent.

    Hope you all have a fantastic Christmas

  75. avatar Boertjie says:
    December 21st, 2010 at 10:04 pm

    Reply to Treehugger @ 9:48 pm:

    Hallo Boompie – same to you.

    :cheers:

  76. avatar cab says:
    December 21st, 2010 at 10:53 pm

    Reply to Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes @ 8:29 pm:
    haven’t heard of it, any good?

    Reply to Boertjie @ 8:41 pm:
    LOL

    fyndraai – what a cracking word.

  77. avatar Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes says:
    December 22nd, 2010 at 1:51 am

    Reply to cab @ 10:53 pm:

    Sorry, it is Snyder.
    Bloodlands is about all the genocides perpetrated by Stalin and Hilter between 1933 and 1945.

    I read a review on Bloodlands, went looking for it at our library and found another book by the same author. He makes what should be boring history a great read, so I have high hopes for Bloodlands.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_D._Snyder

  78. avatar Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes says:
    December 22nd, 2010 at 5:16 am

    Reply to DavidS @ 7:13 pm:

    Read this essay on Capitalism by Ayn Rand.

    My point is not about her views but about the excerpts from Encyclopedia Brittanica in the essay. It seems clear that the authors of Brittanica in the mid 1960s (2 thirds into the 20th century) believed that Marxism was superior to Capitalism. By the time these views changed the 20th century was just about over.

    http://books.google.com/books?id=eWZbq29waP8C&lpg=PT29&ots=NQWByD9P_7&dq=predictions%20concerning%20the%20survival%20of%20capitalism%20are%20in%20part%20a%20matter%20of%20definition%20one%20sees%20everywhere%20in&pg=PP1#v=onepage&q&f=false

  79. avatar bryce_in_oz says:
    December 22nd, 2010 at 8:46 am

    Can someone explain ‘fyndraai’… fine turn?

  80. avatar Boertjie says:
    December 22nd, 2010 at 9:54 am

    Reply to bryce_in_oz @ 8:46 am:

    It’s another word describing climaxing in the sexual context.
    :D

  81. avatar bryce_in_oz says:
    December 23rd, 2010 at 3:23 am

    Reply to Boertjie @ 9:54 am:
    lol!

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