John Smit was voted the top Springbok of all time by Sports Illustrated magazine, even pipping the great Frik du Preez.
Hendrik de Bruin, Beeld
According to SI even legends like Frik du Preez (player of the 20th century), Naas, Botha, Danie Craven, Mannetjies Roux and Francois Pienaar are not in the same class as the Sharks’ Bok captain.
A panel analysed the Bok careers on the basis of the impact they had on SA rugby and then offered “thousands of readers” the opportunity to vote.
Some ex-Boks who landed on the list themselves raised an eyebrow when the heard the result of the vote.
One of them, on condition of anonimity, burst out laughing.
But Francois Pienaar, captain of the 1995 side that won the Webb Ellis Trophy said it comes as no surprise that Smit is voted tops. Pienaar is 12th on the list.
“He lead the side in difficult years and worked wonders. He deserves it,” Pienaar said.
The Top Ten behind Smit is Frik du Preez, Os du Randt, Victor Matfield, Naas Botha, Danie Gerber, Percy Montgomery, Joost van der Westhuizen, André Joubert and Mark Andrews.
Others on the list are Uli Schmidt (13), Mannetjies Roux (17), Morné du Plessis (21). James Small (27). Hennie Muller (33), Kobus Wiese (35), Boy Louw (39), Danie Craven (42), Morné Steyn (64), Butch James (75), Chris Koch (86), Ryk van Schoor (96) and Abie Malan (97). Jannie de Beer ends the list on 100.
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June 22nd, 2011 at 12:52 am
Dawie has bought the mag and should be able to supply the complete list. I wonder where Carel du Plessis finds himself?
No science involved here, just interesting, and nice for debate.
June 22nd, 2011 at 8:50 am
I would personally have gone for Os du Randt… 2 World Cup medals.
Allthough Smit has won everything there is to win except the S14/15 – if he and the Sharks could add that…
June 22nd, 2011 at 9:13 am
Reply to JT_Stormers @ 8:50 am:
Imagine if they puLL-oFF both the S15 and the RWC 2011.
Then he has some serious “Palmares”
June 22nd, 2011 at 9:39 am
Reply to WiLLem suPPorts ChEEtahs! @ 9:13 am:
I won’t be able to wipe a smile off my face for a good couple of days if that happens
June 22nd, 2011 at 9:52 am
it’s a farce. there’s no way smit is the best bok ever! only the twitter generation voted and they know sweet buggerall about the history and the calibre of players of yesteryear.
how many 45 to 60yr olds know where the Sports Illustrated website is or can even find the link to go and vote?
farce
June 22nd, 2011 at 9:53 am
Reply to CooleyHigh @ 9:52 am:
June 22nd, 2011 at 10:15 am
Go Smitty!!!!!!!!
June 22nd, 2011 at 10:20 am
Reply to Morné @ 10:15 am:
Yes, leave now and don’t spoil your reputation.
In fact, you should have left end of 2009.
You’re not even first choice with your own team
anymore.
Worst thing a sportsman can do is to try and
hang on too long.
June 22nd, 2011 at 10:34 am
Reply to CooleyHigh @ 9:52 am:
The predominant players are all those from the last twenty years and if you think that top 10 is weird then you must see some of the selections…
Jannie Breedt FFS?
The oke played like three tests as a Bok or something ridiculous like that…
I’ll give you the list now… ??? means I disagree he should even be on the list
100. Jannie De Beer ???
99. Ian McCallum
98 Piet Visagie
97 Abie Malan
96 Ryk Van Schoor
95 Tommie Bedford
94 Piet Greyling
93 Jannie Breedt ??????
92 Bennie Osler
91 Andre Vos ??????
90 Theuns Stofberg
89 Joe van Niekerk ??????
88 JP PIetersen ??????
87 Robbie Fleck ???????
86 Chris Koch
85 Krynauw Otto ??????
84 Doug Hopwood
83 Burger Geldenhuys ??????
82 Joggie Jansen ??????
81 Danie Rossouw
80 Wahl Bartman ??????
79 Andre Snyman ??????
78 AJ Venter ??????
77 Michael Du Plessis
76 Wynand Claasen ??????
75 Butch James ???????
74 Pieter Hendriks ??????
73 Pierre Spies ??????
72 Gert Smal ??????
71 Corne Krige ??????
70 Johan Heunis ?????
69 Moaner Van Heerden
68 Robbie Kempson ??????
67 Jan Boland-Coetzee
66 Adrian Garvey ??????
65 Cobus Visagie ?????
64 Morne Steyn (am undecided about this one)
63 Guthro Steenkamp
62 Francois Steyn ?????
61 Beast Mtawarirra
60 Pieter Muller ????
59 Stefan Terreblanche ?????
58 Louis Moolman
57 Gysie Pienaar
56 Dawie De Villiers
55 Divan Serfontein
54 Hennie Le Roux
53 Tiaan Strauss ??????
52 Hannes Marais
51 Jannie Engelbrecht
50 James Dalton ?????
49 Japie Mulder
48 John Gainsford
47 Pieter Rossouw
46 Syd Nomis
45 Joel Stransky ??????
44 Bob Skinstead
43 Breyten Paulse
42 Danie Craven (should be #1)
41 Erol Tobias ??????
40 Bismarck Du Plessis ??????
39 Boy Louw
38 Rob Louw ?????
37 Gerrie Germishuis
36 Rassie Erasmus ?????
35 Kobus Wiese ?????
34 Jan Ellis
33 Hennie Muller (should be in top 10)
32 Mof Myburgh
31 Bakkies Botha
30 Balie Swart ???????
29 Chester Williams ?????
28 Henry Honnibal
27 James Small
26 Ruben Kruger
25 Jean De Villiers
24 Jaque Fourie
23 Juan Smith
22 Ray Mordt
21 Morne Du Plessis
20 Gary Teichman
19 HO De Villiers
18 Andre Venter
17 Mannetjies Roux
16 Bryan Habana
15 Schalk Burger
14 FDP (should ALSO be in top 10)
13 Uli Schmidt ??????
12 Francois Pienaar
11 Carel Du Plessis
10 Mark Andrews ????????
9 Andre Joubert ??????
8 Joost
7 Monty
6 Danie Gerber
5 Naas Botha
4 Vic Matfield
3 Os
2 Frik Du Preez
1 John Smit
53
June 22nd, 2011 at 10:39 am
Reply to Boertjie @ 10:20 am:
Hehe, grapgat!
June 22nd, 2011 at 10:41 am
Reply to Morné @ 10:15 am: such a sucker
June 22nd, 2011 at 10:43 am
Off the top of my head
Paul Roos
Dougie Morkel
Phillip Mostert
Gerrie Brand
Jan Lotz
Chris Koch
Okey Geffen (has there ever been a better front row for us than Koch and Geffen?)
Hansie Brewis
Tjol Lategan
Felix Du Plessis
Salty Du Randt
Will return in ten and add more… just need to think a bit…
June 22nd, 2011 at 10:51 am
Reply to DavidS the sort of hopeful Lion @ 10:34 am:
IMO only players that played for the Bokke more that 50 tests should be considered!
June 22nd, 2011 at 10:52 am
Reply to Boertjie @ 10:20 am:
Is he hanging on too long or is it that the coaches are hanging on to him!?
June 22nd, 2011 at 10:54 am
Reply to JT_Stormers @ 10:51 am:
Impossible, back in the day you only played like 3 tests a year if any at all, cannot have that condition in place.
I mean Naas was only capped 20-odd times if I am not mistake.
June 22nd, 2011 at 10:59 am
Reply to Morné @ 10:54 am:
well then tough luck for him and the others – the amateurs should not even be mentioned in the same breath as the pros today! Watch the old games of the 70′s and 80′s – they are KAK!
June 22nd, 2011 at 11:00 am
Reply to JT_Stormers @ 10:59 am:
PS: Flip vd Merwe will get torn a new one in todays game if he does not die from a hart attack at the pace they play today!!
June 22nd, 2011 at 11:21 am
IMO that means the amateurs would be better… seeing as they did it part time so had to rely on natural athleticism to perform…
But if Bakkies took a punch from Jaap Bekker or a tackle from Frik Du Preez he’d be “out injured” for six months and the disciplinary committee would ban Frik for life and 25 years…
Different strokes…
The number of tests cannot possibly determine whether you were or were not a great JT… that is a seriously stupid remark…
As an example by analogy
The famous Panther tank of WW2 is to this day regarded as the greatest tank of WW2 and probably ever… yet it was only used for two of the six years…
Same for the jet powered ME 262
Anyway…
Did I say Hansie Brewis?
Tjol Lategan
Jaap Bekker
Basie Van Wyk
Johan Claasen
Tommy Gentles
Des Sinclair
Wilf Rosenburg
Jan Pickard
Basie Viviers
Ian Kirkpatrick
Louis Schmidt
Avril Malan
Keith Oxlee
Tom Van Vollenhoven
Tiny Naude
Gys Pitzer
Thys Lourens
LOfty Nel
Ian McCullum
Joihn Williams
Piston Van Wyk
Gerald Bosch
Kevin De Klerk
Richard Prentice
Willie Khatz
Frans Erasmus
Rudolph Straueli
Spurburger Ollie Le Roux
Uhum
Boertjie
Add some
June 22nd, 2011 at 11:21 am
Reply to JT_Stormers @ 11:00 am: then why even have a subjective & nonsensical poll like this one then, where smit plays in 4 years more Tests than naas and some other boks combined? it is a farce the whole thing!
June 22nd, 2011 at 11:25 am
Reply to DavidS the sort of hopeful Lion @ 11:21 am:
ag BS! The pros today are much fitter, stronger, harder! the old days the guys could not play every week like these guys do because they were SOFT!
June 22nd, 2011 at 11:27 am
Reply to CooleyHigh @ 11:21 am:
exactly my point
You can’t compare apple with oranges.
June 22nd, 2011 at 11:43 am
As I said
The old guys were tough because they pushed mine trolley cars underground or carried bales…
Natural toughness.
And as I also said… the softies of today wouldn’t last three seconds in a scrum, ruck or lineout without medics from Discovery calling for stretchers…
Colin Meads played against the Boks with a broken rib…
Andre Joubert played in RWC 1995 final with broken fingers
Jorrie Jordaan played against the 1949 All Blacks with a broken nose
And of course Gary Wetton I think played with a torn open nutsac…
Today’s salon haired parlour testicle waxed metrosexuals would die on a field with these old guys despite their professionalism
June 22nd, 2011 at 11:44 am
Cooley that is why you cannot judge ability based on the number of tests a player played
June 22nd, 2011 at 11:45 am
Reply to DavidS the sort of hopeful Lion @ 11:43 am:
the amateurs won’t be able to put a finger on the pros in a game!
Apples v Oranges!
June 22nd, 2011 at 11:47 am
BUT you can judge influence…
The 1937 Boks taught New Zealand the value of having a strong forwards pack.
The 1951 Boks was the blueprint the 1971 – 1974 Lions used to beat us and New Zealand
To this day those are regarded as “great teams”… and no slick ball waxed, starlet slick thighed, hair coiffed, pouting, salon hair done, sponsor clothe dressed little twab with a twitter finger is going to change that…
June 22nd, 2011 at 11:48 am
Reply to DavidS the sort of hopeful Lion @ 11:44 am:
you can’t judge abillity on 3 tests either!
Or judge abillity of todays ATHLETES v yesterdays vetsakke!
June 22nd, 2011 at 12:04 pm
Reply to DavidS the sort of hopeful Lion @ 11:47 am: hence i said at the beginning this whole shebang is a farce as the people who “voted” were probably on the sports illustrated website to check the latest swimwear pics and whoelse ryan giggs has shagged rather than objective evaluation of the infulence individuals made while wearing a bok jersey!
June 22nd, 2011 at 12:06 pm
Reply to JT_Stormers @ 11:48 am:
Yes you can…
The rugby rules may have changed a bit… but the required toughness has not.
Today’s athletes are hard sculpted.
Yesterday’s were hard from living.
Think on this
Danie Craven was the model on which the “utility back” concept was great.
Danie was also the model on which the BIG scrumhalf was created.
Danie was also the South African creation that saw that the scrumhalf is the backline decsionmaker and not the flyhalf as in most other countries.
Amateurism affected professionalism.
Hennie Muller was the model for players like Bobby Skinstead, Josh Kronfeld, Joe Van Niekerk, David Smith, Laurent Cabanne, Rassie Erasmus and other speedy multirole loose forwards – another feature of South African approach to international rugby.
Tom Van Vollenhoven was THE original Jonah Lomu..
Dan Carter and Grant Fox and Michael Lynagh and even Johnny Wilkinson have said that Naas Botha’s approach to practicing and perfection in kicking was the model for them to base their kicking practice on…
In any event…
If amateurism was so kak how come so much of it rubbed off on professionalism…
You’re just stirring
But there is nothing to stir with
In your heart of hearts you know I’m right…
June 22nd, 2011 at 12:31 pm
Reply to JT_Stormers @ 10:51 am:
IMO only players that played for the Bokke more that 50 tests should be considered!
——–
Then Frik du Preez also won’t make it.
They should have made a distinction
between amateurs and professionals.
Or only let those over 60 vote – people
whose memory span is longer than 10 years.
June 22nd, 2011 at 12:32 pm
Reply to JT_Stormers @ 10:52 am:
Is he hanging on too long or is it that the coaches are hanging on to him!?
—-
Snor the only coach hanging on to him.
He won’t get gametime elsewhere.
Maybe the Lions.
June 22nd, 2011 at 12:38 pm
Reply to JT_Stormers @ 11:25 am:
ag BS! The pros today are much fitter, stronger, harder! the old days the guys could not play every week like these guys do because they were SOFT!
——
Pure bullshit. The guys of old often played TWICE
a week.
Jan Lotz in ’37 played 7, missed one, played 11, missed one,
played 4. That is Wednesdays, Saturdays.
And there were many other cases like his.
June 22nd, 2011 at 12:42 pm
Reply to Boertjie @ 12:38 pm:
Oh, and BTW JT: The ’37 tour was Boks on NZL muddy fields.
Only Bok side to win a series in NZL.
June 22nd, 2011 at 1:15 pm
Pretty senseless poll, very broad description. My first though after reading the heading was, “By whom, The School for Peculiarly Gifted in Kirghistan?”
One can use any one or combination of the following criteria when deciding – caps (considering amateurs & pro’s), fame/reputation/esteem, personality, captain or leader, skills, tries, contribution to rugby and even ‘x-factor’. And that’s naming only a few!
Then having a list of 100 nogal, stupid really.
Reply to CooleyHigh @ 9:52 am:
Reply to Boertjie @ 9:53 am: Reply to DavidS the sort of hopeful Lion @ 10:34 am:
I agree too.
Reply to JT_Stormers @ 11:25 am: Guess we’ll never know how the pro’s measure up to the amateurs, now will we.
Just as you say today’s pace might be too frenetic for the players of yesteryear, today’s players might not be able to adapt to a slower pace, the other smaller rules that have changed since then and of course the tough justice back then.
Ek stem met onkel D en oom Boer – daai tyd se manne was kliphard al was hulle nie ‘professionele’ atlete nie!
June 22nd, 2011 at 1:18 pm
Reply to Boertjie @ 12:38 pm:
How many games a year compared to todays Pros?
julle ou toppies will mos altyd in die verlede lewe waar alles beter was – KAK man!
June 22nd, 2011 at 1:20 pm
Reply to DavidS the sort of hopeful Lion @ 12:06 pm:
You’re just stirring
June 22nd, 2011 at 1:21 pm
Reply to Boertjie @ 12:31 pm:
only over 60′s
Then you would have 5 votes because the rest would not know how 
anyway – genoeg kak gesoek vir een dag!
June 22nd, 2011 at 1:34 pm
Reply to namboer_STORMERS! @ 1:15 pm:
seriously: We know how it is to play with and against amateurs who take the game seriously at time, right? I also know how it is to play with amateurs against a proffesional team and the pace is the biggest discrepancy.
Hardness/toughness this is hard to quantify but I bet the old balle could hold there own for at least 20-30 minutes before they run out of puff even at their peak.
June 22nd, 2011 at 1:47 pm
Reply to JT_Stormers @ 1:34 pm:
No gyms, no science, no weight lifting, assistant coaches
and the whole squad that nowadays travel with the team.
Therefore you can only compare them to the best the
world had to offer when they played, who influenced
the game, who were feared competitors etc.
Hennie Muller (8) and HO de Villiers (15) changed the
whole concept of their positions, to name only two
examples.
Nobody knows how today’s pampered pro’s will fare
had the conditions applying been the same as those
of the amateurs of years gone by.
Athletics, gholf, tennis etc. have very much the
same problem in selecting and ranking their greats.
Paavo Nurmi (long distance) still one of the very
greatest, even if today’s athletes run minutes
faster.
June 22nd, 2011 at 1:58 pm
Reply to Boertjie @ 1:47 pm:
same with mountanieering where someone like Reinhold Messner is seen as a great. He was the 1st to go up Everest without oxygen, the 1st to go up everest alone, the 1st to do more than one 8000m on one trip, the 1st to climb the eiger nordwand in 1 day.
(Uli Steck) and only 60 years ago it was one of the biggest challenges in the alps
Today the record for the eiger nordwand is 2:47
June 22nd, 2011 at 2:05 pm
Thanks Boertjie
My grandfather played for Eastern Transvaal and Air Force (Dunottar was a huge air force base) and he sometimes played two games a week… one for his club and the other his province in one week… and if you think Air Force was weak… they were captained by Captain Felix Du Plessis…
Given the season was shorter but still… they played two tournaments at the same time…
June 22nd, 2011 at 2:28 pm
Reply to DavidS the sort of hopeful Lion @ 2:05 pm:
what should be voted on is the BEST BOK TEAM ever! a single player is only as good as his team mates!
June 22nd, 2011 at 2:43 pm
Reply to JT_Stormers @ 2:28 pm:
No vote needed – traditionally this title
belongs to the 1937 Boks.
Still waiting for the next Bok team that
wins a series in NZ.
Or any country’s team for that matter, I think.
With 1951-52 Boks a close second.
June 22nd, 2011 at 2:54 pm
Reply to Boertjie @ 2:43 pm:
how about the 17 in a row Bokke from 1997/1998?
June 22nd, 2011 at 2:55 pm
Reply to Boertjie @ 2:43 pm:
France in 1994 won the series in NZ 2-0?
June 22nd, 2011 at 3:13 pm
Reply to JT_Stormers @ 2:55 pm:
You could be correct re the Frogs.
Jip, I will rate Teichman’s team
by far the best in the modern era.
June 22nd, 2011 at 3:19 pm
Reply to Boertjie @ 3:13 pm:
23-8
22-20
Blanco’s try
http://rugby-pioneers.blogs.com/rugby/2006/04/all_blacks_fran.html
June 22nd, 2011 at 3:40 pm
Reply to DavidS the sort of hopeful Lion @ 11:43 am:
John Smit played an entire season of Super Rugby and tests with a serious back injury…
June 22nd, 2011 at 4:38 pm
Reply to bryce_shark_in_oz @ 3:40 pm:
Jannie Engelbrecht scored two tries v Northern
Transvaal at Loftus with a broken collar bone.
BTW I think Meads had a broken (cracked?) arm,
not ribs.
June 22nd, 2011 at 4:49 pm
Reply to Boertjie @ 4:38 pm:
yes – broke his arm in the mid week game v ?Eastern Tvl? Then played in the Saturday Testmatch with a leather strapping according to my info.
June 22nd, 2011 at 5:00 pm
Ja you’re right
I think Jaap Bekker played with cracked ribs
June 22nd, 2011 at 5:30 pm
Juan Smith has played quite a few games with serious injuries not too mention concussions…
FDP plays every game with his serious shoulder problem…
Victor Matfield played most of the England game last year with a cracked rib…
Not sure any of the above is the smart thing to do it must be said…
June 22nd, 2011 at 6:12 pm
Reply to bryce_shark_in_oz @ 5:30 pm:
Joost in the WC 95 final with cracked ribs?
June 22nd, 2011 at 9:17 pm
Reply to JT_Stormers @ 6:12 pm:
Amateur
Reply to bryce_shark_in_oz @ 5:30 pm:
Players carry comprehensive career protection insurance policies these days… unlike the days of the amateurs…
Hell Schalk played a game against France with a broken neck… given he didn’t know though… because he’s too dof I think…
June 23rd, 2011 at 2:53 am
Reply to DavidS the sort of hopeful Lion @ 9:17 pm:
Players like Juan Smith are at serious risk of brain damage and being punch drunk after all his games continuing with concussion… some players won’t be able to walk properly past the age of 40… and now look at these motor-neuron type probs coming through…
Just on Schalk… it’s a fallacy the guy is ‘dof’… he’s just a nutter and machine on the paddock… straight A’s in 7 subjects at school on HG and almost completed his degree in viticulture…
June 23rd, 2011 at 7:52 am
Reply to DavidS the sort of hopeful Lion @ 9:17 pm:
I thought that Schalk had cervical disc damage and not a fracture.
Reply to bryce_shark_in_oz @ 2:53 am:
Currently there is no evidence of a relationship between sports injuries and MND. Apparently Cassius Clay’s/Ali’s Parkinson’s disease is related to repeated head injuries.
Schalk comes across as anything but dof at post match interviews………It’s just the rest of the world that thinks an Afrikaans accent sounds so.
June 23rd, 2011 at 7:59 am
Reply to bryce_shark_in_oz @ 2:53 am:
Reply to mawm-the-jubilant-shark @ 7:52 am:
Guys
I did place the wink there to show it was a joking comment…
June 23rd, 2011 at 4:24 pm
Reply to mawm-the-jubilant-shark @ 7:52 am:
Reply to mawm-the-jubilant-shark @ 7:52 am:
“Apparently Cassius Clay’s/Ali’s Parkinson’s disease is related to repeated head injuries.”
I rest my case!
June 23rd, 2011 at 5:02 pm
Yesssssssssss Captain Fantastic is the best !!!!!!!!!!!!
Reply to JT_Stormers @ 6:12 pm: Some All Black player finished of the game playing with a torn scrotum apparently, think guys were a bit tougher then and very pampered now.
June 23rd, 2011 at 5:25 pm
Reply to Treehugger-shark @ 5:02 pm:
Iirc it was Shelford v France
June 23rd, 2011 at 9:08 pm
Ja I thought one of the Wettons but it was Buck Shelford…
If this happened even to a Schalk Burger or Jerry Collins they’d be wheeled off in agony and a six month break from the game…
June 24th, 2011 at 2:46 am
Reply to DavidS the sort of hopeful Lion @ 9:08 pm:
Doubt it… Burger is one of the toughest Mofo’s to ever come out of RSA… after his injury he should not even be near a contact sport… let alone have the season of his life-time…
On injuries… I remember reading about Mark Andrews (possibly RWC 95′) have a fist size hole rucked into his calf (on purpose) by the AB’s… think he was stitched up and back onto the field after half-time?
June 24th, 2011 at 8:13 am
Reply to bryce_shark_in_oz @ 2:46 am:
also think it depends on the match – if it is a June/July test match before the WC he will get it fixed (pun intended) but in a WC he will be back on in 10min with a higher pitched voice
June 24th, 2011 at 9:09 am
blondie pienaar & vettie smith-what a joke!!!
June 24th, 2011 at 9:16 am
Reply to bryce_shark_in_oz @ 2:46 am:
You are thinking about the test against NZ in Durban where the Boks made that remarkable comeback. You might be right the person being Andrews, but I thought I read it was Andre Venter… Jake White’s book…
Teichman (a man of very few words) used this player before going out for the second half to show his players what it means to bleed for the Bok jersey.
June 24th, 2011 at 9:30 am
Reply to Morné @ 9:16 am:
That’s the one… actually now that I think about it… it was Otto?
Venter wasn’t around then was he?
June 24th, 2011 at 9:33 am
Reply to Morné @ 9:16 am:
It must have been the 98′ dramatic come-back to take the 3N…so Venter was definitely there… as was Otto and Andrews…
June 24th, 2011 at 11:59 am
I personally think that why would u have a player like him who is kak and seriously over weight being no.1. i mean seriously supersport need to have their butts kicked for putting him at no.1.