The five local teams in the Super 15 have sent a new proposal to the SA Rugby Union (Saru) putting their case for expanding the tournament to the Super 16 from 2013.
Now it will be up to Saru to persuade its Australian and New Zealand counterparts to agree to that expansion and award the extra side to South Africa. This would spare South African rugby the pain of relegating one of its five current Super 15 teams to make way for the entry next year of the Southern Kings, to which Saru has already committed itself.
Unless Saru is successful, which at this stage seems unlikely, one of the Bulls, Cheetahs, Lions, Sharks or Stormers will drop out next year. The five have, however, presented an argument based on the South African television viewership of the Super 15.
According to statistics supplied to the Super 15 organising body, Sanzar, by Repucom, South African viewers made up 62% of the Super 15 television audience in 2011.
“We’re taking a firm stand because South African sides bring the most commercial value to the table. You only have to look at the broadcast deal to understand that,” said Sharks chief executive Brian van Zyl.
“Sanzar would be stupid not to help us.”
The television trend in favour of South Africa has been apparent forseveral years. Local channe,l Supersport, pays the most for broadcast rights. Simply put, SA brings in the most money and viewers -yet income is shared equally between the three national unions.
“If you look at the television viewership, we (South Africans) are the basis of the whole agreement,” said Bulls chief executive Barend van Graan.
“Sanzar must be reasonable because we have a unique situation in our country and they must give a little to make the whole process sustainable on our side. If one team were relegated, it would probably be the end of them.”
Supersport has said it will follow Saru’s lead.
Counting against South Africa’s proposal is a feeling that there is no appetite for expansion on the other side of the Indian Ocean. Sanzar chief executive Greg Peters has already dismissed the likelihood.
“Sanzar has sold the current structure of Super rugby to broadcasters and commercial partners for a period ending on December 31, 2015. Until that time, expansion is not possible,” he said.
Australian Rugby Union boss, and Sanzar board member, John O’Neill agreed, saying: “We’re in the second year of a five-year deal in which we sold to the broadcasters a 15-team competition. Changing that deal in midstream is not really on.”
The situation has become so delicate that Saru has tried to gag local Super 15 chief executives on the matter. Saru chief executive Jurie Roux has been negotiating contracts with Springbok coach Heyneke Meyer’s potential back-room staff and is not keen to fly to Sydney, only to be told politely where to get off by his Australian and New Zealand counterparts.
If the five current Super 15 teams are so concerned, why did they vote to include the Kings next year? Only Van Zyl offered an insight.
“The Kings issue has been around so long, and there has been so much political pressure, that it was an emotional decision,” Van Zyl said. “There is a hell of a lot of pressure being put on everyone, from equity partners to government, to include the Kings. It’s such a hot potato, if only one union said no to the Kings inclusion, there could have been a backlash.”
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February 15th, 2012 at 9:09 am
SA brings in the most money, has the most viewers and yet the money is split evenly between the 3 countries. The way the NZRU and ARU behave, you’d think that they were carrying the can!
Are there any Rand/dollar figures available?
February 15th, 2012 at 9:10 am
Reply to mawm @ 9:09 am:
Why do you think we were all up in arms when Marinos and Co negotiated this new deal with SANZAR and Newscorp?
Palookas.
February 15th, 2012 at 9:18 am
According to statistics supplied to the Super 15 organising body, Sanzar, by Repucom, South African viewers made up 62% of the Super 15 television audience in 2011.
“We’re taking a firm stand because South African sides bring the most commercial value to the table. You only have to look at the broadcast deal to understand that,” said Sharks chief executive Brian van Zyl.
“Sanzar would be stupid not to help us.”
No why the Flook did SARU not used this when they did the contract in the first place…hope they hammer the SANZAR on this for we always knew the reason why Super rugby is successful is because of SA Supporters and TV viewers
February 15th, 2012 at 9:25 am
I hope that when Cheeky gets his way the pressure will be on him to deliver on his EC black players promises. I hope clear goals will be set for him ito representation and team composition. It will be very wrong if the Kings were to become a copy of the other franchises with a few tokens here and there.
That old clichéd saying always comes to mind when I think about this … Be careful what you wish for …
February 15th, 2012 at 9:29 am
And when the Kings are in, what demands will then follow? Larger slice of the cake to help establish a black team? And so it will go on and on until the gravy train derails from the weight and poor maintenance.
February 15th, 2012 at 9:41 am
South African viewers made up 62% of the Super 15 television audience in 2011.
We bring in 70% of the revenue too. Fcuk John O Neil and the SANZOO tossers with SARU too.
WHAT A BLOODY DISGRACE HOSKINS.
Really it is time to get out.
We bitch because our rugby officials are so busy looking after themselves and not after our rugby intrests.
February 15th, 2012 at 9:48 am
““The Kings issue has been around so long, and there has been so much political pressure, that it was an emotional decision,” Van Zyl said. “There is a hell of a lot of pressure being put on everyone, from equity partners to government, to include the Kings. It’s such a hot potato, if only one union said no to the Kings inclusion, there could have been a backlash.””
About sums it up that… pathetic really… no balls by the unions voting against the Kings and now they are going to pay the price…
Slice it, dice it… there is NO WAY an extra RSA team is going to be permitted before 2016 and the Kings will be there next year (I still cannot see it)…
I very much doubt there’ll ever be a 6th RSA team full-stop…
February 15th, 2012 at 10:00 am
What a farKing mess …
February 15th, 2012 at 10:01 am
Bryce I trust we can now put to bed your contentions that Aus rugby is somehow contributing to SANZAR in a meaningful way aside from its teams…
February 15th, 2012 at 10:16 am
Politics and sport.
(shaking my head in despair)
February 15th, 2012 at 10:20 am
Reply to DavidS @ 10:01 am:
Australian S15 viewership was up 41% in 2011… that’s an increase in the pie for ‘everyone’ including SARU quite simply…
February 15th, 2012 at 10:23 am
Reply to Stormersboy @ 10:16 am:
Indeed mate…
“The facts are that Sanzar will simply not permit the expansion of the Super 15 to Super 16 in 2013 because, quite simply, Sanzar has broadcast and sponsor agreements in place till 2015.
Similarly, all five South African Super Rugby franchises have player and sponsor agreements in place till 2015. There is not one piece of paper that obligates Saru to include the Southern Kings in the Super 15 next year.”
(Source Sportsleader from Tony McEever)…
100% politics…
February 15th, 2012 at 10:39 am
If 38% of viewership is coming from NZ and Aus combined and 30% of revenue from them combined my guess would be NZ is contributing more because union is bigger there so let’s say Aus contributes say a third of that so it would be contributing 10% of SANZAR revenue and viewing numbers…
In any partnership that partner would be the one that had to STFU and do what the majority said.
Effectively SA and NZ can get along without Australia.
To compound it Australia’s leg of the tournament is sponsored by Investec…
Head Office
Corner Grayston and Rivonia Roads
Sandton
Johannesburg
Gauteng
South Africa
Founder is a Benoni Jewish dude…
Thanks for playing Australia…
Next time come humble…
February 15th, 2012 at 10:41 am
Reply to bryce_in_oz @ 10:20 am:
What’s the revenue contribution?
Exactly…
February 15th, 2012 at 10:42 am
Reply to DavidS @ 10:39 am: The founder is Ian Kantor.
Ian doesn’t have any interest in Investec anymore and hasn’t had for many years.
February 15th, 2012 at 10:43 am
As someone who’s got strong roots in the EC I will be over the moon to see them play quality rugby at the highest levels. If a n extra team can be accommodated then great. If it uplifts rugby in black communities then awesome. Nobody hates the EC and those living there. What we hate is the way this is done … using ANC politics/politicians to force your way in … to demand what you haven’t proven worthy of getting (demanding instead of earning). We so too much of this demanding instead of earning in South Africa and we hate it. We live with the consequences every day. Those in most need suffer the most in the end. We hate this entitlement culture that places competence through hard work behind rewards. We therefore hate what this Kings saga has become and what it represents. We love the EC and its people.
February 15th, 2012 at 10:57 am
Reply to DavidS @ 10:39 am:
What difference does it make… the fact that RSA contributes the most to the pie is no surprise at all (never has been)… the fact is SARU are pussies and J’ON and Murdoch run the S15 with their antipodean brethren bringing not much more than the world’s best players to the table…
The fact is until 2016 (three seasons) the pie will be shared by all three countries equally… so any growth in subscription viewers benefit all…
Australia is a rich subscription television country a huge growth market ‘rugby union wise’ and each year it’s popularity increases and union moves up the list of national sports so too the moolah for all three countries…
I’d be more peeved with NZ and their dwindling finite market…
As for Investec… that’s a poor argument…
Why do they sponsor the S15 and Northern Hemisphere rugby union events over local?
Well that’s pretty obvious… global reach…
February 15th, 2012 at 10:58 am
I’m going to play devils advocate here for a while, and allow me this indulgence, in spite of my past rants against the ineptitude of SARU:
OK so we have 3 countries
We have 15 teams, 5 from each.
Each Unions have aspects of the arrangements that favour them and others that don’t.
We for example play all our matches, home and AWAY during times that will allow the SA viewer comfortable access without having to wake up at 3am to watch. We player either in the morning or during times that we are already used to watching rugby.
We also have our away tours compressed as much as possible so that we tour overseas only once, compared to the other unions where this doesn’t always happen.
We cannot do anything about the whole “travel east” thing, that’s Geography, not an attempt by O Neil to undermine us.
Why, because Supersport pays more for the rights (based on viewership which again doesn’t seem all that unfair) and therefore contributes more to the revenue, should we automatically have more say? It’s a partnership after all.
Why should we have more teams than the other Unions?
Could someone give me a good argument as to why we are being screwed (other than the argument that we pay more and therefore contribute more and therefore would have a higher stake in the say)?
February 15th, 2012 at 11:01 am
I would like to take this opportunity to thank our dear friends in the Media for all the motivation. The Lions (players, staff and supporters) have never been as committed to the cause as it is now. We are at war now and when we fight for our survival we fight with a vengeance not seen before. Lions!
February 15th, 2012 at 11:04 am
Reply to bryce_in_oz @ 10:57 am: They are also listed on the London Stock exchange. A very large % of their revenue is generated from foreign sources too.
February 15th, 2012 at 11:06 am
Reply to Stormersboy @ 10:58 am: We don’t actually want more teams in the competition. We are forced by politicians to include an additional team or drop one of the existing teams, which would be unfair. This is forced onto everybody by politics, not rugby.
February 15th, 2012 at 11:08 am
We’re asking SANZAR to include an extra SA team – using whatever leverage we have – to take away a headache brought on by politicians and greed.
February 15th, 2012 at 11:11 am
Still don’t understand why there is this feeling among us Saffa’s that we are getting screwed in the Super comp.
I feel it too, but I can’t always put my finger on why.
I was wondering if someone else could.
February 15th, 2012 at 11:13 am
I have read all the comments and personally I think SARU has stuffed up … but a solution has to be found for the current problem.
Currently South africa has 5 teams playing but 2 of those teams are from one province. The Lions are strugling and the Bulls are soaring high.
a timely solution could be :
If the Bulls buy out the Lions and consolidate the teams in Gauteng (This would make a very strong team).
The current coaching staff could join up , with Mitch taking Meyers old post. This should solve the Bulls coaching woes and Meyer can then get the guys he wants for national coaching team.
This also resolves the S15 issue …
Bulls management to stay and Lions management to be retrenched of course.
With these resources the New Bulls team would be very strong and with the Bulls transformation track record a good thing for SA Rugby.
Elton and some of the other EC players could then return to the Kings and they could make a real go of it .
February 15th, 2012 at 11:13 am
Reply to bryce_in_oz @ 10:20 am:
Brycie – Australian viewership was up 41%! So it went up from 100 to 141 people watching!….just kidding, but it is so far behind League that it really has no hope at all, just a few private schools and a couple of university teams.
Reply to DavidS @ 10:39 am:
DavidS – NZ rugby union would be in deep financial doo if they lost the money from Super Rugby. Aus would somehow keep on going as it does not have the costs of NZ at grass roots level.
What I cannot understand is how SARU have allowed themselves to be hoodwinked by NZRU and ARU both with the money and on the playing field, how they have allowed a dishonest and unbalanced judiciary, reffing and schedule to continue for so many years. They must be laughing their heads off while we keep on try to be ‘Mr Nice Guy’ after years of being vilified by them for our internal policies.
So does any one actually have the finacial breadown of contributions and dispersments from SR to the 3 countries?
February 15th, 2012 at 11:14 am
oops strugling = struggling
February 15th, 2012 at 11:17 am
What is better to watch? Heineken Cup or S15?
Pros and cons for each IMO:
HC Pro: Teams deserve to be tehre because they have a promotion relegation system!
S15 Con: fixed franchises with some games uninteresting because nothing happens if they lose year after year!
HC pro: mixed bag of teams with NEW challengers coming through to spice it up a bit.
S15 con: same old same old teams where you can bank on.
HC con: For me personally there is no real home team to support but loads of saffas spread accross many teams
S15 Pro: Home teams I can get behind.
con/pro – you decide
HC: Time of year not for “entertaining rugby” but more for the real fan and yet some games stand out with great running rugby.
S15: Hard grounds made for running rugby (sometimes basketball style) with some wet games in NZ/CT etc. which mixes it up a bit.
all in all what is the better sytsem? IMO HC style where the best in each country should have to DESERVE a spot in the S15 and SA can do this with CC and NZ with their natiopnal competition.
1st season: each country gets 5 teams to participate, by the end of the S15 the last team drops out and the country of the winning team gets a spot for the 6th placed team in their comp to participate in the S15.
NZ and SA have enough teams for this, Aus does not so what happens if Tahs win the S15 with Stormers the ever 2nd… Lions for example are last – if Aus can not bring in a 6th team then the right of a 6th team goes to the 2nd placed side etc.
If a country ends up with only 3 teams in the S15 and another with 7 so be it – the fittest survive
February 15th, 2012 at 11:21 am
Reply to RUGGA_MIND @ 11:13 am: You stated this in another thread also and he is my answer there:
Reply to RUGGA_MIND @ 10:51 am: I’ve been contemplating and promoting a Bulls Lions amalgamation before but there are way too many obstacles. The S15 franchises are not the same as the rugby unions … two separate legal entities. The Bulls cannot buy the Lions S15 franchise. That two huge cellphone rivals sponsor each team isn’t helping either. No way will MTN stand back to allow Vodacom to walk away with the thing. Where to play? Branding? etc etc. What then happens in the CB (where the Lions are the champs)?
The Lions as a union is very strong and healthy. Look at their results overall at all levels in 2011. The won several trophies. SARU can’t kill such a strong union with all its structures.
February 15th, 2012 at 11:38 am
Reply to Kat @ 11:21 am:
Sorry did not see your reply seemed like that tread was dead..
Yes good points.. I do agree that the lions are a very strong union and that it would be a shema to lose the franchise but surely for the feature of rugby in the country this should be considered in more detail.
Don’t get me wrong I thing the whole situation with the Kings is ridiculous and the involvement of the Watson’s and other politically influenced partners has no place in SA Rugby.
But the fact of the matter is that even for the Lions a single union in Gauteng is a great idea for the following reasons :
- The combined Union would have much better depth and skill base to choose from.
- The Currie cup and Vodacom cup teams could then provide the perfect training ground for the Super and National level
-Single management by a proven management team would improve and strengthen rugby in Gauteng.
-Single structure in the school and varsity systems will improve rugby in the region and in the country over all.
as for the Team name being the Bulls that is just the Bulls supporter in me and although it would be terrible to live in a world with no BULLS or LIONS surely this is the best for South – African Rugby in total.
As for the sponsorship deals surely a resolution could be reached but by more intelligent people than myself.
February 15th, 2012 at 11:39 am
sorry shema should read shame
February 15th, 2012 at 11:51 am
Reply to Stormersboy @ 11:04 am:
Due to my profession I know Investec Global pretty well… the majority of their funds are generated outside of RSA now… a real RSA success story… but my point remains…
They sponsor the S15 and Northern Hemisphere union events over local because of the international reach… no other reason…
February 15th, 2012 at 11:53 am
Reply to RUGGA_MIND @ 11:38 am: The Gauteng franchise can only accommodate one squad – ie. as many players in the squad as any of the other franchises. A lot of players good enough to play Super Rugby will then be left in the cold. They will move. Which of the CB teams will be willing to lose such players because of Super Rugby inactivity? Neither the Bulls nor the Lions will want to lose good players. Neither would want to share their Murdoch money. This is what killed the Cats and the respective unions … Lions and Cheetahs living off one slice (other large teams each getting the full slice).
One Gauteng franchise makes sense in some respects but not in others.
For Gauteng to have one franchise one of the two teams must be terminated in all levels. This cannot and will not happen.
February 15th, 2012 at 12:04 pm
Reply to mawm @ 11:13 am:
“but it is so far behind League that it really has no hope at all, just a few private schools and a couple of university teams.”
Not so at all mate (I’ll copy and paste something I posted on NSW junior rugby (and not including schools)… rugby union has caught right up to rugby league and in it’s heartland (QLD) the S15 rugby final surpassed every previous league record…
Rugby Union during the RWC particularly the semi’s smashed every record set by any sport on subscription television namely Foxsports… it’s a game on the rise in Aus and the potential market for growth is huge…
Even a few % of the AFL market would be huge for both playing numbers and viewership… it’s massive in both those respects… jeez there are practically scores of thousands of athletic locks and flankers types in AFL…
February 15th, 2012 at 12:10 pm
Reply to bryce_in_oz @ 12:04 pm:
“just a few private schools and a couple of university teams.”
‘In Sydney’s metro area alone there are 12 premier clubs that each average a further four junior clubs aged 6-16 that progress to their ‘colts’ sides and ultimately ‘grade’ rugby… this doesn’t include the ‘schools’ players which play in a different league but meet at the yearly NSW competition… NSW clubs currently account for 19000 juniors and is governed collectively by the NSWJRU.
As an aside The NSW Suburban Rugby Union is the largest centrally organised Rugby competition in the world… not to mention New South Wales Country Rugby Union is the largest Rugby province in the world.’
February 15th, 2012 at 12:20 pm
Reply to bryce_in_oz @ 11:51 am: Yip. I used to work there.
February 15th, 2012 at 12:25 pm
http://www.lionsrugby.co.za/index.php/glru/job-opportunitie
February 15th, 2012 at 12:29 pm
“opportunitie” LOL!
February 15th, 2012 at 12:58 pm
Off topic but did any of you know how much money players get for a Baa-baas game?
I read today that Giteau, AAC and Drew Mitchell all got busted for not declaring their $60000 each ‘cash’ match fee at customs… nice wee Bonsella!
February 15th, 2012 at 1:39 pm
I will try and explain this as simple as possible, as I cannot draw pictures on here:
To put some reality to the argument: 39 of the first 120 games will be broadcasted between 01:00 to 07:00 Aus time and 03:00 to 09:00 NZ time not taking daylight savings time into account. That is 32.5% of the games. Who can honestly say that they will be watching alot of games then? Especially when the Lions & Cheetahs play each other? Even if you record it, you rarely get time to watch it as one can actually go out here. No need to sit behind the burglar bars and watch rugby.
February 15th, 2012 at 1:54 pm
Reply to Deon @ 1:39 pm:
if saffa fans had any sense they would watch more Heineken Cup rugby at prime time SA
February 15th, 2012 at 1:59 pm
Reply to JT_BOKBEFOK! @ 1:54 pm:
I miss all the early Friday night games (morning in SA) because I am at rugby training. Doesn’t even help to record it. There just isn’t time to watch. Saturday the team plays. By the time you get home, it is time for Saturday’s games and Sunday you at least want to do something different.
Friday night games lose in Aus lose out to NRL or AFL as people here would rather go watch a NRL or AFL game at the stadium than sit in front of the TV.
February 15th, 2012 at 2:12 pm
Reply to Deon @ 1:59 pm:
Same here, only game i get to watch live on tv are the friday night games in SA. Saturday is a rugby day and sunday a mountainieering day
Sometimes i can catch a saturday morning game if we have a home game. The HC is mostly in our off season thx to snow so get to watch that if i am not boarding…
February 15th, 2012 at 2:15 pm
Reply to Deon @ 1:59 pm:
So there is no solution, apart from
SA playing their games at noon or
midnight?
Good debate, guys. I’ve been following
it and it broadens the mind.
February 15th, 2012 at 2:32 pm
Reply to Boertjie @ 2:15 pm:
what is your opinion on this Franchise BS?! Does it work?
IMO all (excl. Cheetahs) are run like a Province and not a Franchise or am I missing some important info?
Lions, Bulls, WP and Sharks can all play in the S15 as themselves! Only the Cheetahs use players from Griquas on a regular basis…
Why can’t we just drop this Franchise Idea and get back to a promotion relegation situation to keep the competativeness in our rugby high.
February 15th, 2012 at 2:33 pm
Reply to Boertjie @ 2:15 pm:
Don’t know what the answer is, but using this argument to justify an extra team is futile. As bryce has asked what about the AUD vs R exchange rate. At his stage it is R8 to the dollar so do the calculations. Effectively 8 SA viewers = 1 Aussie viewer. Maybe not exactly as simple, but not far off. Pay TV is not cheap here.
The thing that is starting to piss me off about this Kings debate is that the 5 franchises are bitching about losing out. Not once have anyone said Lets make it impossible for us to drop us. If all 5 SA teams finish in the top 6, then they have a performance foot to stand on. But now they would try to find legal loopholes to stay in. Seems they are striving for mediocricy
February 15th, 2012 at 2:48 pm
Reply to Deon @ 2:33 pm:
That is why a promotion/relegation system is needed! Imo
February 15th, 2012 at 2:52 pm
Reply to JT_BOKBEFOK! @ 2:48 pm:
That would be the best, but Aus will never fall for it.
February 15th, 2012 at 2:54 pm
Reply to Deon @ 2:52 pm:
All we need to do is convince NZ… With their record they would like the idea, no?
February 15th, 2012 at 2:55 pm
Reply to JT_BOKBEFOK! @ 2:32 pm:
Good idea to ponder.
Nothing works better than merit.
Reply to Deon @ 2:33 pm:
To add on to what I’ve said above:
As things stand there is no merit in the
Kings.
Demoting Cheetahs or Lions to make room
for another struggling team is ludicrous.
This whole thing revolves around politics,
i.e. transformation and getting an African
franchise into the S15.
Kings just don’t have the African players:
NMMU in VC had 4 Africans on Monday night.
EP vs Boland last year had 4 in the 22.
Got beaten by 40 points.
Border/SWD were thrashed 88-0 by Lions.
I can spot 5 Africans in their 22.
Now it’s silly to BUY Africans from other
teams – and as you know there are not many
around. It defeats the purpose when the idea
is to grow African rugby in the EC.
You must remember that for the ANC
brown does not qualify as black.
(In some ways Boland is a better S15 bet
concerning brown players, and it’s a
huge area to stifle and draw from and
a well-developed academy.)
PE has a beautiful stadium, granted.
I don’t know what the solution is. If
there is one, it’s long term and not
quick fix.
February 15th, 2012 at 3:05 pm
Reply to JT_BOKBEFOK! @ 2:54 pm:
Well these days I wonder if they would. Although their player numbers might get a boost this year at junior levels. Apparently junior player numbers in Aus doubled in Aus in 2004 after they won the WC here
February 15th, 2012 at 3:05 pm
Promotion/relegation is a good principle – one I believe in – but this cannot be done in Super Rugby where franchises depend on the Murdoch money to pay the huge salaries top players demand. If a team were to fall out for one season they would not be able to meet their contractual commitments to their top players so what is the chance of them bouncing back next year?
February 15th, 2012 at 3:13 pm
Reply to Kat @ 3:05 pm:
but the other side of the coin is that they get complacent and do not have to put in an effort to recieve that money – there needs to be some sort of performance base to the money received etc.
Do the Stormers and Bulls get more than the Lions and Cheetahs? They should due to performance IMO. and if a team is consistantly at the bottom another should get a shot at the big time!
February 15th, 2012 at 3:19 pm
Well said Boer
Fot the Kings
“Play better rugby and make the case for inclusion and don’t rely on entitlement”
But I suppose expecting merit to play a role is racist.
February 15th, 2012 at 3:24 pm
Reply to DavidS @ 3:19 pm:
That can be said of some of the other teams as well
February 15th, 2012 at 3:26 pm
Reply to JT_BOKBEFOK! @ 3:13 pm:
SARU subsidises the player salaries for a certain number of players. Tjat is how the money is distributed.
February 15th, 2012 at 3:40 pm
Reply to JT_BOKBEFOK! @ 2:48 pm:
Thing is Kings would still not be above Griqua’s/Boland etc etc etc…
Even McEever has changed his tune over the Kings being gifted S15 2013 promotion… see his current solution for what should have been happening (not too dissimilar to what Morne was suggesting) on sportsleader.co.za…
February 15th, 2012 at 3:52 pm
Reply to Deon @ 3:24 pm:
February 15th, 2012 at 4:10 pm
Reply to JT_BOKBEFOK! @ 3:13 pm: Solution that will make promotion / relegation possible is centralised SARU contracts for Super Rugby players. The team that falls out then do not sit with salaries they cannot afford without Murdoch money.
February 15th, 2012 at 4:35 pm
Reply to Kat @ 4:10 pm:
I think it is better to go back to the Provinces fending for themselves. Players get 2 contracts – one for CC which will be the fight to be in the top 5 and one for Super rugby (partly paid by SARU?). If the team loses out the players can play for another Province in the S15 but when the CC starts he is back to his orginal Province.
For example: Butch James at the Lions has 2 contracts, CC and S15. Lions drop out of the S15 and Griquas get promoted. James still a CC player for the Lions and if Kwas want him for the S15 they can take over the contract (partly paid by SARU). If they don’t want him he loses out and can either play VC rugby for the Lions or look for another province that plays S15. This way the best can stay in the S15.
Now the Province will have to be clever and get these players on a 3+ year contract at CC level to be safe and compete to stay in the S15 by ending in the Top 5 in the CC.
Just a thought! (If all goes to plan the BEST & BIGGEST 5 unions/provinces will stay in the S15 but the carrot is there for smaller unions!! and this will just push everyone to perform)
February 15th, 2012 at 4:38 pm
Reply to JT_BOKBEFOK! @ 4:35 pm:
BEST would be to go back to amateur rugby – play for your province, play for the love of the game!
February 15th, 2012 at 4:52 pm
NZ model has their franchises owned by the national body which then contracts directly from the various provinces, but that works on a basis that their provinces are NOT the operators of the franchises. SARU tried the same model BUT allocated “franchise licenses” to regions to operate a Super franchise. The result has been that the more players a franchise operator has in Super Rugby the more it gets from SARU… and in a two tier CC system that means that the place SARU chooses to base the franchise benefits most when it has many players in Super Rugby, hence the WP, Lions, Sharks, Bulls were all able to cut out their partners by contracting their good players directly because they got plenty money from SARU and thus impoverish the smaller unions.
Truth is that in the 1990′s unions like the Leopards, Pumas, Valke, Griquas, SWD, EP were good but Super Rugby and the franchise system literally killed them and lead us to where we are now. With a bunch of tiny barely surviving teams and the Big ones.
Shocking indictment on the way the old SA Rugby / SARFU managed rugby in the late 90′s and early 2000′s
February 15th, 2012 at 7:24 pm
Reply to JT_BOKBEFOK! @ 4:38 pm:
AbsoBLOODYlutely correct.
One can dream, can’t you?
February 15th, 2012 at 7:24 pm
Reply to DavidS @ 4:52 pm:
the franchise system literally killed them and lead us to where we are now.
——
Ek dink jy’s korrek.
February 15th, 2012 at 9:48 pm
Reply to Boertjie @ 7:24 pm:
Dis prys wat ek hoog aanskryf.
February 15th, 2012 at 9:49 pm
Reply to DavidS @ 4:52 pm:
Riaan Oreborsel can be thanked for that fucking genius move.
February 15th, 2012 at 9:55 pm
Reply to Boertjie @ 7:24 pm: Reply to DavidS @ 9:48 pm:
The franchise system, if done correctly, would be magnificent for SA Rugby given the sheer numbers we have playing the game.
Gifting the licenses to the big 5 killed it – and the small unions.
Let’s not forget, our current national coach made his name first by taking a lowly SWD that took a 90+ snotting from the Blue Bulls in 1997(?) to beating them in a play-off match 1 year later in the Currie Cup. ( I might have my dates wrong – too late and I am too tired to check).
February 15th, 2012 at 10:40 pm
Reply to Morné @ 9:55 pm:
SWD under Meyer – there was another guy involved
as well, Phil ??? – is still one of the success stories.
They had a supporters club, after-match tents, galore.
In know they had a hell of a lot of Noord-Transvaal
players (some called SWD Noord-Transvaal B).
Not all that sure about the play-off match though?
February 16th, 2012 at 10:33 am
Reply to Morné @ 9:49 pm: I would not be surprised if Mr Oreborsel is involved in the Kings mess. He’s already running the new PE Stadium and would gain from Super games there.
February 16th, 2012 at 12:35 pm
Reply to Boertjie @ 10:40 pm:
SWD under Heyneke Meyer reached the CC semifinal in 1999 along with EP under Alistair Coetzee
Do you think we still have THAT kind of quality of coaching available in our smaller unions at the moment as young up and coming coaches?
Nope.
At that stage also there was a single 14 team CC which suited the “littler” teams for exposure because (as I witnessed first hand) Sharks supporters would flock to Brakpan to see their heroes play the Valke and give that little union massive gate takings. Also, they would make hay in the Super Rugby and 3N and incoming tours and be more or less on a par with the now depleted Big Five.