‘SA Rugby, you made the mess, you fix it’

March 17, 2012
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The message is loud and clear to SA Rugby as they plan to lobby their cause to include the Kings in next year’s SupeRugby competition with their SANZAR partners.

Wynne Gray

What is it about South African rugby officials?

SARU is intent on expanding the Super rugby series into a 16-team competition next year and want to meet their New Zealand and Australian counterparts to explain in more detail their rationale.

How about NO THANKS.

New Zealand and Australia have been peppered with repeat requests from SARU to change their minds even though the current format has been sold to television networks, sponsors, unions and investors as a 15-team deal until 2015.

Somehow, someone connected to the South African hierarchy, apparently promised the Southern Kings a place in the tournament.

But the Bulls, Stormers, Sharks, Lions and Cheetahs have made it clear in a unified letter to SARU they will not compromise their places in favour of the Kings.

SARU has climbed in with arguments like there is a wider television audience in South Africa so the series deserves and can cope with an additional side.

Maybe but not now. The series is already unwieldy.

It has a major weakness because each team does not play every other side, therefore it is iniquitous.

Time zones and travel make Super rugby an awkward beast, one far more conducive to recorded viewings offshore unless you have insomnia, money on the result or relatives involved.

South Africa are bleating on again though about adding another side next season and remain determined to send a delegation this way to persuade their antipodean cousins of the merits of that argument.

New Zealand and Australia should memo their Sanzar buddies quick smart. Something along the lines of NO. You made the mess, you fix it.

Sanzar has seen how difficult it was for the Rebels in their debut last season while the Force were last in their 2006 start and the Lions have struggled in South Africa. Adding more teams will not raise the standards – the reverse is far more likely.

If more teams are involved, the series should be played within each nation’s borders before a rotating hosting playoffs programme is held in one country.

But that’s all a bit messy.

Perhaps the plan should be transtasman footy – similar time frame, better programmes. Maybe that’s something for administrators to wish for in 2016.

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65 Comments

  1. avatar Jacques(Bunny) says:
    March 17th, 2012 at 1:31 pm

    The problem for the Stormers, Lions,Cheetahs, Bulls and Sharks are that SARYU holds the cards on who play in the tournament and as I understand it by the end of this year the current contract with these unions expires…so they can at the end say who will be the 5 teams playing in the tournament.

    They have the unions by the short and …

  2. avatar Morné says:
    March 17th, 2012 at 1:34 pm

    Reply to Jacques(Bunny) @ 1:31 pm:

    On paper they might, in reality they don’t.

    The tail is most definitely wagging the dog in SA Rugby.

  3. avatar Jacques(Bunny) says:
    March 17th, 2012 at 1:38 pm

    Reply to Morné @ 1:34 pm: Well paper means alot for I can see this will be going to court.

  4. avatar Jacques(Bunny) says:
    March 17th, 2012 at 1:39 pm

    Reply to Morné @ 1:34 pm: Do you think we can maybe see a break away here?

  5. avatar Jacques(Bunny) says:
    March 17th, 2012 at 1:42 pm

    I say through your 180 top players in a pool get new names for all them and devide it up in country regions with base stadiums and play blooming rugby.

  6. avatar Morné says:
    March 17th, 2012 at 1:42 pm

    Reply to Jacques(Bunny) @ 1:38 pm:

    Nah there is a lot of beating of chests but legally I don’t think they have much grounds.

    SA Rugby however cannot afford for one of these unions to go under.

  7. avatar Jacques(Bunny) says:
    March 17th, 2012 at 1:45 pm

    Reply to Morné @ 1:42 pm: :soek: Lions are already :whistling:

  8. avatar DavidS says:
    March 17th, 2012 at 2:15 pm

    Reply to Jacques(Bunny) @ 1:45 pm:

    Nope

    Their sponsorship deals and their equity deals and the test they cleverly hosted at FNB stadium means that of the big five unions the Lions is the only one that does not owe SARU a cent. They have other creditors… but not SARU.

    That means that of the unions, Lions is the only one SARU does NOT have by the short and curlies.

  9. avatar DavidS says:
    March 17th, 2012 at 2:18 pm

    In any case, SARU’s answer to Wynne Gray should be something along the lines of

    Uhum…

    We bring the most viewers, the most money, the most advertizing revenue

    So

    Like India at the ICC, WE make the rules and you lot follow…

  10. avatar Jacques(Bunny) says:
    March 17th, 2012 at 2:40 pm

    Reply to DavidS @ 2:18 pm: And tell them that we will take our money, supporters and broadcasters to Europe afetr 2015 and they can go and play with themselfs on their two islands. SA Rugby do not need NZ and Aus they need us

  11. avatar bryce_in_oz says:
    March 17th, 2012 at 3:14 pm

    Reply to Jacques(Bunny) @ 2:40 pm:

    Funny stuff…

    Europe want the Japies? Don’t kid yourself… they already have RSA players without including a team or two (at most)…

    The current world number 1′s are playing the current world number 2′s in the toughest comp in world provincial rugby… and you want the world number 4′s to play themselves?

    Give me a break… :Ollie:

  12. avatar Timeo says:
    March 17th, 2012 at 3:35 pm

    Bombast and bluster with nothing to back it up with is one of the more unfortunate of our national characteristics.

    Nowhere more on display, than in rugby, where the motto is: “Talk loudly and carry a toothpick.”

  13. avatar Jacques(Bunny) says:
    March 17th, 2012 at 3:40 pm

    Reply to bryce_in_oz @ 3:14 pm: Like I said NZ And Aus needs us more than we need them more money to be made in Europe and reality will sink in in 2015.

    You can bliff yourself in thinking SA needs NZ and Aus…without us the 3N, 4N means nothing for them for from us is were all the buks comes from, without us the Supershit means nothing as well. Money is money and business is business, how long do you think the people with the money will let them be ordered around by a bunch of poor island mob?

    SANZAR better play some kind of ball here for I can just see how it will bite them in the arsh in 2015.

    SA is run by our politics and they need to accept it and adopt.

    It is not one of our unions that are bankrupt like the numeber team in the worlds union and as I understand it unions.

    Like I said they need our money more than we need their scraps

    If SA tarting talk of pulling out of SANZAR I’ll bet you the big TV Bosses will start making talks with the mob in the islands.

    Will wait and see who’s wagging who here

  14. avatar Jacques(Bunny) says:
    March 17th, 2012 at 3:43 pm

    Sorry my spelo is kak today but sure you will understand what I mean here :whistling:

  15. avatar bryce_in_oz says:
    March 17th, 2012 at 4:24 pm

    Reply to Jacques(Bunny) @ 3:43 pm:

    No one needs to accept RSA politics at any level… take one look at their Gold and mining industry…

  16. avatar bryce_in_oz says:
    March 17th, 2012 at 4:24 pm

    Reply to bryce_in_oz @ 4:24 pm:

    No one outside of RSA that it…

  17. avatar DavidS says:
    March 17th, 2012 at 5:16 pm

    Reply to bryce_in_oz @ 4:24 pm:

    Dude

    Our rugby commodity is worth far more in cash value than what it is in Australia and New Zealand.

    If we offer the revenue we’re generating for SANZAR from advertizing and sponsorships to the Euros they’ll drop Italy and Russia handily and find a place for four local teams in their competition.

    New Zealand and Australia are number 1 and 2 respectively because of the money they suck out of the mil cow of SA rugby… without it here will be a lot more ORFU’s folding…

  18. avatar Jacques(Bunny) says:
    March 17th, 2012 at 6:59 pm

    Reply to DavidS @ 5:16 pm: :agree: And we need to start telling them that, I won’t care if we do not play with them anymore, looking at Supershit against HC…we are dishing up shit. Just watch Wales game and was much better to watch than the kak the Reds and the Sharks dish up. We as SANZAR are falling behind….prediction next WC a NH side will take it

  19. avatar Boertjie says:
    March 17th, 2012 at 7:58 pm

    Reply to Jacques(Bunny) @ 6:59 pm:

    Scotland?
    :twisted:
    Frankly I don’t care what happens
    to the SS15 or Sanzar anymore.

  20. avatar Jacques(Bunny) says:
    March 17th, 2012 at 8:33 pm

    sadly i must agree

  21. avatar out wide says:
    March 18th, 2012 at 12:24 am

    Reply to Jacques(Bunny) @ 6:59 pm: Jeez Bunny calm down. You might just make a fool of yourself if you go down the they need us more than we need them avenue. If you get to visit Aus or NZ one day you will realise that tv viewership and bums on seats at games are far better when it is an Oz or NZ side involved either side of the Tasman and Bledisloe Cup matches are sold out but alas not games involving SA S15 sides and the Boks. We sometimes overestimate our importance and you have to be on the other side of the fence to see this. The arrogance shown by SARU makes us even less popular in the outside world.

    As for the poor islands comment – Aus is a continent mate and when I last checked the per capita income in Oz and NZ is 3 times that of SA.

  22. avatar Kevin_rack says:
    March 18th, 2012 at 1:18 am

    Oh to dream: Perhaps the plan should be transtasman footy – similar time frame, better programmes and to play with yoursleves. If that is the only reasons then the cousins would have booted us out already.

    This is the major issue of South Africa on all levels on government.
    NO LEADERSHIP.
    Too much politics, too much time watching your back and not watching where you are taking us. This is why we lurch from one disaster to another.

    I would love to see South Africa play rugby in the north, same reasons Wynne Gray: better viewing times, better travel and similar weighted generated revenues. We then sort the saffa players abroad issue as they play against us and we can see if they are good enough.
    There are far too many positives to go north and not enough benefits staying in SANZAR.

    Reply to out wide @ 12:24 am: mate i wished SARU showed arrogance. They are headless chikcens going into a negoiation with cap in hand. They over the barrel already. Arrogance no, stupidity yes.

    Reply to Jacques(Bunny) @ 6:59 pm: France will get the next RWC. RWC’s are given and not won

    South African rugby needs to carve its own path and destiny but I suppose that requires planning with consensus. We cant blame others for our ills only ourselves and that includes supporters. I dont watch S15 anymore.

  23. avatar bryce_in_oz says:
    March 18th, 2012 at 10:10 am

    I never though I’d see the day SARU’s ‘spin-doctors’ would have Japie rugby fans so brain-washed they actually believe:

    a> a sixth uber-week side is a good idea
    b> and to appease ANC politician’s
    c> that other countries should agree to the ANC’s political meddling…

    Fuck me give me a break!

  24. avatar Jacques(Bunny) says:
    March 18th, 2012 at 10:40 am

    Reply to out wide @ 12:24 am: Aus is a continent because they reclassified the island as one MATE…..

    In the islands you have, you say the BC that is full, how many matches a year? Oh yes we have 3 matches of that. As far as I can see in Supershit rugby the only full stadiums we saw was last year with the Reds when they near their championship win so don’t come with that bullshit. Look at the Rebels game so far not even talking about this mornings game.

    In this years Supershit in(RSA):

    ■The Stormers v Sharks game in Round 2 remains on top with an average audience of 776,330 viewers
    ■Viewership of games featuring international teams only was the highest during Round 3, with 306,054 viewers watching the Reds v Rebels game.

    Fact:
    According to statistics supplied to the Super 15 organising body, Sanzar, by Repucom, South African viewers made up 62% of the Super 15 television audience in 2011.(This was in an article a few weeks ago on this blog)

    New Zealand TV numbers dropped five percent last season(This is on SANZAR’s website)

    Fact:

    The highest viewers in the islands was Reds vs Rebels with 136 000 in Round 3 and the highest in RSA was Sharks vs Stormers 776 330 viewers mind you the lowest RSA viewers was Lions vs Hurricans with 360 000 viewers.

    So please don’t believe teh shit that the island mob spread rather take the facts and comment on that.

    RSA brings in the most viewers

    Attendance at stadiums:

    Average per country
    SA 35,129
    Aus 23,141
    NZ 22,500

    Average for round 1: 28,096
    In Round 1:

    Blues 18-19 Crusaders (Eden park Attendance: 30000 )

    Brumbies 19-17 Western Force (Canberra stadium attendance: 14211)

    Bulls 18-13 Sharks (Loftus Versfeld crowd: 46112).

    Chiefs 19–23 Highlanders (Waikato stadium, attendance: 15000 )

    Waratahs 21-25 Reds (ANZ stadium, attendance: 32071 )

    Stormers 39-26 Hurricanes (Newlands, Cape town, attendance: 36825)

    Lions 27-25 Cheetahs (Ellis Park, Jo’burg, attendance: 22450)

    At the end I believe we have the right to be arrogant….

  25. avatar Jacques(Bunny) says:
    March 18th, 2012 at 10:44 am

    They need us more than we need them, and that is a fact not a sentiment or a statement. 2015 is going to be nice to watch how this shits pan out

  26. avatar Jacques(Bunny) says:
    March 18th, 2012 at 10:47 am

    Reply to Kevin_rack @ 1:18 am: I watch the Stormers shit on friday and enjoy the 6 Nations the whole of saturday, don’t realy care for supershit, kak rugby, ding dong kicking all the time I will not even go to a stadium even if they give the tickets for free at this stage and I realy hope they start to play better rugby for Supershit is busy going down with this stuipid format and type of rugby being dish up because of Paddy’s kak refs

  27. avatar Jacques(Bunny) says:
    March 18th, 2012 at 10:48 am

    Oh and F1 was much better than the Rebels vs Cheetahs game mind you I rather look forward to Monday nights Varsity Cup than Supershit over weekend fishing on the river in Zambia is much better with my son.

  28. avatar Jacques(Bunny) says:
    March 18th, 2012 at 10:52 am

    Well I am off to fish with my son some Bream……beatiful day in Zam

  29. avatar Boertjie says:
    March 18th, 2012 at 11:09 am

    Reply to Jacques(Bunny) @ 10:52 am:

    Vat ‘n droë broek saam.
    Jy val dalk in die water.
    :weed:

  30. avatar Jacques(Bunny) says:
    March 18th, 2012 at 11:16 am

    Reply to Boertjie @ 11:09 am: Nee oompie hier is kroks se kind hier ons bly in die boot :D

  31. avatar DavidS says:
    March 18th, 2012 at 11:29 am

    Love the way the Kiwi and Aus media and their brainwashed fans overestimate their contribution to world rugby… and especially to SANZAR.

    SANZAR revenue is split 33% each… but the largest income bringer is SA bringing in over 60% of the cash.

    Take away our contribution and the Kiwis and Aussies will have a third of the present revenue to maintain two thirds of their operating costs.

    Good luck with that.

    You’ll just end up as another Fiji / Tonga / Argentina / Samoa with all your best players in Europe trying desperately to get EU citizenship so they can play for Wales or Scotland…

    Maybe you should show some humility… 2015 is just two years away and that could spell the end of SANZAR and the artificial strengths of Aus and NZ in world rugby.

  32. avatar bryce_in_oz says:
    March 18th, 2012 at 11:49 am

    Reply to DavidS @ 11:29 am:

    So you actually believe NZAR should bow to South African political meddling and allow a 6th weak team in the gobshite Kings because of some misguided racial tokenism????

    Get real… SARU have fucked up… South African politics is fucked up and has no place in any other country’s sport…

  33. avatar DavidS says:
    March 18th, 2012 at 12:10 pm

    Reply to bryce_in_oz @ 11:49 am:

    Like with India in the ICC

    We bring the cash…

    We get what we want.

    We make the rules.

    The days of John ‘O Neill and Jock Hobbs strongarming softcock Marinos into yet another SA screwing deal are over… Marinos is doing nothing and Jurie Roux is going to make NZAR’s lives a trite difficult seeing as we control the purse strings… once we adda little squeeze to their antipodean squishy balls they’ll sing out tune.

  34. avatar Deon says:
    March 18th, 2012 at 12:35 pm

    Reply to DavidS @ 12:10 pm:

    Wiskunde is nie jou sterkpunt nie, ne?

    Reply to bryce_in_oz @ 11:49 am:

    :agree:

  35. avatar bryce_in_oz says:
    March 18th, 2012 at 12:46 pm

    Reply to DavidS @ 12:10 pm:

    The only rules I see being obeyed is ANC meddling and SARU toeing the party line…

    Smart of their ‘spin-doctors’ to be playing to the RSA bravado angle with it’s fans that they are now so brain-washed they actually think…

    - a 6th gobshite team in the Kings is a good idea in an already water-logged competition
    - that racial tokenism behind the team’s inclusion is a valid sporting decision
    - and that other country’s should toe the ANC party line

    If South African teams want to leave SANZAR because New Zealand and Australia not too mention Newscorp and co refused to let South African politics into their sport… then so be it… they’ll be back to the dark old days playing against themselves with most their best players long having emigrated North and Eastwards…

  36. avatar DavidS says:
    March 18th, 2012 at 1:10 pm

    Reply to Deon @ 12:35 pm:

    Jy jou breins in emigrasie gelos toe jy uit SA is?

  37. avatar DavidS says:
    March 18th, 2012 at 1:13 pm

    Reply to bryce_in_oz @ 12:46 pm:

    Lol!

    You actually believe that?

    The station that pays Newscorp the most is Supersport…

    Take that away and you’ve already lost half of your income from selling television rights…

    The days of the dumb “yarpie” playing the tunes of the loudmouthed criminally originated Australian and his snide little friend across the Tasman are OVER.

    I don’t know how to make this clearer

    No SA Rugby = Bankrupt SANZAR.

  38. avatar Morné says:
    March 18th, 2012 at 1:18 pm

    Reply to DavidS @ 1:13 pm:

    I get most of what you are saying and don’t disagree with who ‘brings’ the most.

    But we also have to consider that if there is no more SANZAR – then what?

    SA Rugby into European leagues?

    I don’t think it is as easy as many believe it would be, unless rugby moves towards a global season.

    If SA Rugby pulls out of SANZAR they to will lose out on their only real cash-cow – there is a great chance SA Rugby will also go bankrupt without NZ & Oz.

    SA Rugby needs to be careful to lobby the threats projected in this thread – it could backfire really badly.

  39. avatar bryce_in_oz says:
    March 18th, 2012 at 1:39 pm

    As I said… if SARU and their fans want to pull the plug on Super Rugby due to the politically motivated Kings not being accommodated… so be it… another dark day for RSA sport…

  40. avatar Boertjie says:
    March 18th, 2012 at 3:07 pm

    Let’s rather discus something else
    that is not going to happen.
    Any ideas?

  41. avatar bryce_in_oz says:
    March 18th, 2012 at 3:20 pm

    Reply to Boertjie @ 3:07 pm:

    The hiding the Protea’s have been giving the Black Caps?

  42. avatar bryce_in_oz says:
    March 18th, 2012 at 3:29 pm

    Reply to bryce_in_oz @ 3:20 pm:

    The resurgence of the Pom rugby team…

    Jeez between them and Wales I’ve not seen bigger backline players for quite some time…

    I reckon they’re going to keep Lancaster and not bring Mallet in (or use him in another capacity)…

    Going to be interesting to see what HM can do in just two weeks when the newish look Pom team have now had many games together…

    IMO he’s going to have to balance some of the older players with a few fresh faces if he wants to win… and no-one wants to lose at home against the Poms… total over-hauling (as some fans have been calling for) can damn well wait for the tour and the transition be smoother…

    Mind you there shouldn’t be too many surprises anyways…

  43. avatar DavidS says:
    March 18th, 2012 at 4:47 pm

    Reply to bryce_in_oz @ 1:39 pm:

    It’ll be a dark day for Aus rugby…

    End of the line for arrogance and empty vessel noise John ‘O Neill and mates…

    Back to the fine old 70′s and 60′s and maybe they can match the Argies every now and then…

    And New Zealand will become another Samoa / Fiji / Tonga who will be good for frightening a big side at world cup every now and then and their best players will be playing for those sides…

    At some point SA Rugby needs to start throwing its weight around. In the case of India it was a test where they had a player disqualified and correctly so, but the nett result was they won.

    SARU does not need to “walk out” of SANZAR… just make it clear that they call the shots inside SANZAR.

  44. avatar Boertjie says:
    March 18th, 2012 at 5:12 pm

    Reply to bryce_in_oz @ 3:29 pm:

    I’ve read that Mallett has more or less
    accepted he won’t get the job.

    Size: Haven’t seen a frame myself, but from
    what I read the Stormers young ones – Etzebeth,
    Kolisi and Kitshoff – are delivering.
    I really thought they will be weak up front.

  45. avatar DavidS says:
    March 18th, 2012 at 5:20 pm

    Reply to DavidS @ 4:47 pm:

    NZ and Aus will have the choice of walking out and killing themselves or toeing the SARU line.

    Given what’s just happened to ORFU and the trouble NZ got to in RWC, toeing the SARU line will be in their interest.

    And Aus is nothing but a bag of loud air… like popcorn farts… without overseas money they’ll just collapse…

  46. avatar Boertjie says:
    March 18th, 2012 at 6:38 pm

    Popcorn farts
    :D
    No body, just smell.

  47. avatar DavidS says:
    March 18th, 2012 at 7:35 pm

    Yis but today was a beautiful day on the Rand… suppose that’s why the white population abandons the city on weekends to go to Magalies, Kroonstad, Heidelberg, Balfour, Suikerbos, the Cradle… anywhere to escape.

    It’s on days like this that you realize what a beautiful place SA is to live in.

    Which is why I sat here doing an archeology project all day long…

    :(

  48. avatar out wide says:
    March 19th, 2012 at 12:06 am

    Reply to Morné @ 1:18 pm: Morne you make a good point but I would imagine SA Rugby even with their political agenda must be a little wiser than some of the stuff some are sprouting here. There are none so blind as those that will not see.

  49. avatar DavidS says:
    March 19th, 2012 at 9:53 am

    Outwide

    If our cash is spent in Europe to play in the Heineken Cup… the ARU and NZRU will fold. It’s as easy as that.

    Remember that the revenue SARU earns is split equally. With SA RUgby providing 60% + of that revenue imagine it gets taken away from ARU and NZRU… how many more ORFU’s will there be? And as I told the dorks on our FB page… without our money NZ will become another Samoa and Aus will revert to where it was in the 70′s…

    We ARE blind in SA… we are blind to think that we need to even take cognisance of the whining of ARU and NZRU in SANZAR when we should be calling the shots and they should just be holding their little begging bowels thanking us profusely and playing to our rules.

  50. avatar DavidS says:
    March 19th, 2012 at 10:43 am

    If we took the cash that Supersport spends to buy Newscorp rights and uses it to buy northern hemisphere rights (which they already DO BUY) because SA sides are participating in champions rugby… we kill a bunch of stupid birds.

    1. No more SANZAR “refereeing”

    2. No more travel issues

    3. The CC stays alive and well because the HC is played on a champions league basis

    4. European tourists would find it far easier to come to lovely SA in their winter to watch rugby and spend Euros here

    5. Sponsorship would be easier from countries that can actually afford it as opposed to the poor sponsorship opportunities in Aus and NZ rugby.

    6. We can actually measure how good our foreign legion players are by playing them against SA teams.

    7. NZRU and ARU will stop sucking money off of SA and take their rightful place in the professional game alongside nations like Tonga, Samoa and Fiji.

  51. avatar DavidS says:
    March 19th, 2012 at 10:44 am

    I.e. become feeder nations for players into Europe.

  52. avatar Boertjie says:
    March 19th, 2012 at 10:58 am

    Reply to DavidS @ 10:43 am:

    Send this to Jurie Roux.

  53. avatar bryce_in_oz says:
    March 19th, 2012 at 11:04 am

    Reply to DavidS @ 10:43 am: ‘

    You’ve got rocks in your head if you think the HC are going to want to add huge travel back and forward down to South Africa when they currently have zero… more so if you think any South African side can afford nor cope with 3 months plus living out of a hotel room in the Northern Hemisphere… and even more so if you think there’d ever be more than one or two RSA sides included let alone 6…

    Mass immigration on a grand scale for uncapped players…

    For the record mate… viewing numbers do not correlate directly to capital contributed… not in the slightest with such poor currency values…

    As for NZ and Aus rugby needing South Africa… don’t make me laugh… back in the Super 6 days they were the top two teams in the world still…

    If you fans want to move on because NZAR won’t bow to pathetic RSA ANC politics… then so be it…

    SARU ‘spin-doctors’ got you fans so ‘distracted’ you’re know actually believing a politically slanted Kings is a good idea… what joke!

  54. avatar Boertjie says:
    March 19th, 2012 at 11:36 am

    One hack suggested we bribe the
    OZmob by offering them two props
    that can scrum in exchange for
    their support.
    :whistling:

  55. avatar DavidS says:
    March 19th, 2012 at 11:58 am

    Reply to bryce_in_oz @ 11:04 am:

    SS pays in USD for television rights Bryce…

    They pay MORE than 50% of the television viewing rights to newscorp so you can swallow that kak “currency fluctuation” nonsense once and for all.

    All we’d need is three teams in the HC and on a champiuons league basis we’d have more cash at home to spend on our own domestic comps.

    The Euros earned from HC and tests in the UK would mean we’d play in the global season and NZ and ARU would be truly isolated.

    And without the USD of Supersport and the Investec cash to keep them in business no money to support the creation of the Brumbies, Rebels and Force and you’d be back to just the two “State of Origin” teams and NZRU wouild NOT have enough local cash to sustain its professional; game…

    Geezuz Bryce

    Surely even you can see the extent of the pro game in SA far outweighs the pro comps in any other country in the world.

    Aus has ONE pro comp.

    NZRU has TWO

    In SA we have

    Super Rugby
    Varsity Cup
    Currie Cup
    Vodacom Cup

    In the case of Vodacom and Super and Varsity those are proi comps running in tandem…

    No the country in the world has that much financial clout to sustain that.

    If we choked off the SS contribution to Newscorp that would be a 50% loss in revenue from Neswscorp so their next television deal would be commensurately lower to NZRU and ARU…

    Are you really too arrogant not to see what dangerous waters NZRU and ARU in their snootiness are treading…

    On FB some Kiwis have said we from SA shuld go…

    I agree… we should… then we’ll see where the SANZAR cash comes from VERY QUICKLY…

  56. avatar out wide says:
    March 19th, 2012 at 11:58 am

    Reply to DavidS @ 10:43 am: Can’t follow your rationale. It seems to run that if SARFU can’t force the ARU and NZRU to accept the Kings in a yet again expanded Superugby competition they must throw their toys out of the cot and ensure that the Superugby and Trinations competitions disappear. You imagine that this will result in a scenario where “NZRU and ARU will stop sucking money off of SA and take their rightful place in the professional game alongside nations like Tonga, Samoa and Fiji.”

    The figures just don’t add up. The most recent agreement between Newscorp, Australia and SANZAR amounted to US $323 over 5 years. If this is evenly split between the 3 countries, they would each receive some $20m p.a. This is about one quarter of the NZRU income for the 2010 financial year which was $93m, so at most one quarter of their income comes from their membership of SANZAR. How is the loss of this going to bring them to their knees as you desire? They already make a truckload of money from their end of year tours, no SANZAR games would just make room for longer tours and one source of income replaced by another.

  57. avatar bryce_in_oz says:
    March 19th, 2012 at 12:07 pm

    Reply to Boertjie @ 11:36 am:

    Ironically Aus forward stocks particularly props have never looked better…

    Reply to DavidS @ 11:58 am:

    It’s as simple as this mate… if you’re trying to convince that RSA got outmanoeuvred/shafted in the boardroom when they agreed to give NZAR the same percentage of Super revenue as themselves… well that’s stating the obvious… I agree… would not have happened on my watch! At least Aus is a growth market… NZ is a tiny, finite market and dwindling…

    If you’re trying to convince me that NZAR… because of the above should allow pathetic South African racial-based politics into the competition by being forced into a 6th team in the Kings… you may as well not waste your time typing out a response…

  58. avatar Boertjie says:
    March 19th, 2012 at 12:09 pm

    IMO you need better arguments than
    the Kings to suggest this move.
    In the case of the Kings I hope OZ
    and NZL stick to their guns.

    So how does Saru honour its word regarding
    the Kings?

    Idea: Play them in an extended SA Conference
    (just 5 games, and the franchises can play
    their rotated teams).
    Top 5 play rest of the SS15, and we know who they will be.
    And Kings can’t say they were left out of the
    SS15.

    OK, this is probably not even worth a reply.
    :wink:

  59. avatar out wide says:
    March 19th, 2012 at 12:20 pm

    Reply to bryce_in_oz @ 12:07 pm: Bryce, what percentage of the ARU income arises from SANZAR membership? Surely they like NZ get considerable income from their Hong Kong / Japan / this year Denver? Bledisloe Cup game and their end of year tour and incoming midyear tours?

    You mention that NZ itself has a small market but don’t underestimate the international value of the All Black brand.

  60. avatar out wide says:
    March 19th, 2012 at 12:34 pm

    Reply to Boertjie @ 12:09 pm: It is worth a reply – it is the only way out of the mess and can take place in the midwinter window in the Superugby programme. Make your way to Newlands, Boertjie and tell SARFU you have a simple solution – could save a lot of needless travel by SARFU officials to Australia.

  61. avatar Timeo says:
    March 19th, 2012 at 1:25 pm

    Anybody has some credible data on this revenue issue?

    I see 70%, 60% and 50% being bandied about but never some actual sources for these numbers.

    The viewer-ship numbers listed earlier was for SA only.

    NZ and Aus may hurt a little but they will be fine running a 10 or 12 team competition with lower travel costs.

    SA on the other hand should be careful. If the NH is really interested in them, they should just go. It will be a much better deal. But I doubt that there has ever been any interest from up north.

  62. avatar DavidS says:
    March 19th, 2012 at 7:32 pm

    Reply to Timeo @ 1:25 pm:

    The sources were published weeks ago Timeo.

    They’re directly from SARU.

  63. avatar out wide says:
    March 19th, 2012 at 10:02 pm

    Reply to DavidS @ 7:32 pm: “And in SARU we believe”. Amen.

  64. avatar Jacques(Bunny) says:
    March 19th, 2012 at 10:17 pm

    Reply to Timeo @ 1:25 pm: According to statistics supplied to the Super 15 organising body, Sanzar, by Repucom, South African viewers made up 62% of the Super 15 television audience in 2011.(This was in an article a few weeks ago on this blog)

    From Morne’s post a few weeks ago

  65. avatar bryce_in_oz says:
    March 20th, 2012 at 3:39 am

    Reply to Jacques(Bunny) @ 10:17 pm:

    You’re all missing the point… SARU got you fans so wrapped up in the ‘we deserve a bigger cut because of viewer-ship figure insecurities’ that you guys have been distracted from their huge stuff-up

    -SARU fucked up big time by promising it’s political lackies the 2013 date with zero plan, not too mention whilst under contract until 2015…

    It is not up to NZAR to fix South African political problems and there will be no 16th side in the gobshite Kings before 2015 and rightly so!

    “‘SA Rugby, you made the mess, you fix it’”

    Spot-on… there is no place for political meddling in sport particularly ANC politics in Australian and New Zealand sport!

    IF SARU wants the Kings in next year… say good-bye to one of the current provinces!

    If SARU and their fans want to take the ball and go after 2015 because NZAR refused to toe the ANC party-line and allow political meddling in their own sport… then so be it!

    It will no longer be the three top teams in the SH… which will be sad and a product of South African politics… but too bad… South Africa will have cut their nose off to spite their face!

    If they’re even lucky enough to get one team in the Heineken Cup I’d be extremely surprised… that leaves 4 plus (the Kings) back in the dark old stagnant days of playing each other… the difference being their best players will be playing in the Northern Hemisphere and across the Indian Ocean and then what… you really think the Vodacom Cup, the CC ‘B’ division AND the CC are going to be sustainable?

    Australia and NZ don’t have that problem… they’ll have 5 teams each from the number one and two ranked rugby nations in the world… and will more than likely add Fiji, Samoa, Tonga and two Argentinian sides.

    And how great will that be for those latter three countrie’s game… they’ll no longer be losing so many players Northwards due to lack of professional competition at home.

    Argentina deserves a few sides for the good of Southern Hemisphere rugby… not surprisingly the powers that be have finally woken up to the huge growth market that is Argentinian rugby by adding them to The Rugby Championship this year and it’s about time…

    Argentina is a HUGE growth market… literally just awaking from the amateur era, a more than century old rugby tradition, a population almost the size of RSA with a bigger GDP! No longer will their best players have to go North for a career nor their next best for some two-bit 2nd division comp in RSA…

    And all this because SARU ‘spin-doctors’ surprisingly managed to brain-wash their fans, by using the old “we’re getting screwed by NZAR” insecurity angle, into actually thinking allowing ANC political meddling and racial profiling in the Kings into sport outside of their borders is a ‘good’ thing!

    Give me a break…

    And just as a wee aside… 64% of viewing stats does NOT correlate with 64% of revenue earned when one looks at the weak South African Rand for starter and the only entity that really makes money out of Super Rugby… is NewsCorp/Foxsports by selling the rights to Sky Sports NZ, Sky Sports UK, Direct TV USA, Japan Sports and Supersport.

    Anyone else spot the irony of what’s happening today as to what happened yester-year? Back in the day RSA government through their meddling into sport isolated their teams… and it’s happening all over again…

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