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Meyer to bring back more than just Vic

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With no time to prepare for England, new Bok coach Heyneke Meyer may bring back a few more players than just Victor Matfield.

Reports on Rugby365.com suggests that Meyer has given SA Rugby a list of players he believe will be crucial for the 3 incoming tests against England, his first as coach.

The main talking point in the media at the moment is the possible return from retirement of Victor Matfield not only to play for the Boks, but to captain them for the series.

It is believed however that Meyer is also after Matfield’s former Bulls and lock partner, Bakkies Botha, prop Gurthro Steenkamp, utility forward Danie Rossouw, scrumhalf Fourie du Preez, center Jaque Fourie and utility backline player Frans Steyn.

“SARU has a list of the names of players I want, but that will depend on how the negotiations go,” Meyer told Rugby365.

“I am looking at overseas-based players especially for the first Test against England. I want to have an experienced team.

“We are in talks with a few guys. Everyone is positive,” Meyer added.

Although one can understand that Meyer wants to take no risks against the Six Nations runners-up, you have to ask what the plans are for some of the youngsters that have made their mark in Super Rugby this year.

It is always difficult to judge the form of players playing in Europe and the leagues in Japan are no-where close to the intensity you find in Super Rugby.  Add to this the possible captain, Victor Matfield, last having played a game against the Barbarians in 2011 having done no pre-season or any rugby related conditioning this gamble might well blow up in Meyer’s face.

Experience might be crucial against England but if those experienced players are undercooked and off the pace then a gamble with in-form inexperienced players might be a better bet.

Given the caliber players still playing in Super Rugby, some of them experienced Springboks whilst others have captained their franchises with distinction, eyebrows are perhaps rightfully raised at Meyer’s plans.

Also, whilst one can never underestimate England who came off an impressive Six Nations campaign, they are also a relative new team under a new coach still trying to find their feet.

This might be a gamble Meyer will regret in a couple of weeks.

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70 COMMENTS

  1. Loyalty plays a huge role in the working of Heyneke Meyer. He will use a player beyond his sell-by date if that player was loyal. Anton Leonard comes to mind. Matfield is the new Leonard.

  2. Meyer works with what he knows. He is a clan man … the family sticks together and loyalty is #1. Blood is thicker than water kind of thing. When you choose Meyer this is what you know you will get. When the Lions considered him as their new coach he insisted on bringing along all those he trusted to do the job his way. Lions couldn’t afford it and opted for Mitchell instead. Meyer doing the same at the Boks. He fears the unknown and seeks the security of the known.

  3. can someone give HM a TV set to watch some of the S15 games and MAYBE pick a few of the guys performing CURRENTLY against NZ and AUS opposition?!
    Why bring back so many “experienced” guys? Who is on that List? Gurthro who got monstered in the scrum by his ex Bull team mate in the last game I saw of the Top14? France Steyn who now looks more like a prop than a centre? P3 Wannenberg who is … looking good at Ulster :? etc.
    What next? John Smit? Stefan Terrblanche? January? :whistling:

  4. Reply to JT_BOKBEFOK! @ 11:23 am:

    Out of that list I’ll go for Stefan.
    He should have been the 15 for the
    last 5 years.

    Not serious, but I maintain he got a
    very rough deal. Maybe his race had
    something to do with it.

  5. Hehe I love how you guys arew rooting for a failure before ythe season has even started. He is loyal, but will also only have a week with the superrugby players, so this kind of thing gives him a bit more time with thosew players.

    Lets give him time, he deserves that, do not judge him on a silly series that should never have been. He is trying to do the best he can in the space and time allowed. He doesnt have the luxury of a training camp with the guys. To throw young perforemers in the deepend with hardly a week to gel, is asking for them to get murdered and a possible loss of confidence that we saw in Gaffie and Dave von Hoeslin.

  6. Reply to Aldo @ 2:34 pm:

    Better to lose to the poms with young guys who deserve to be there than old has beens – you are only delaying the inevitable! They are going to retire at some point and he will have to choose they younsters eventually.

    BTW how long do you think HM will have with the likes of Gurthro/Steyn? Top 14 usually lasts longer than any other competition! FdP, Rossouw and Fourie may come home early but not the guys in Europe!

    And to be honest who of the starting 15 will be raw rookies?
    Probable team:
    1. Beast/Greyling/Coennie
    2. Bismark/Chili/Strauss
    3. Jannie/Kruger/Nel?
    4. Bekker/Jeandre/Hargreaves?
    5. Flip/Etzebeth/vd Merwe/Steenkamp
    6. Brussouw/Burger/Minnie/Botes
    7. Alberts/Potgieter/Deysel
    8. Spies/Alberts/Vermeulen
    9. Hougie/Charl/Sarel/Jano
    10. Steyn/Jantjies/Goosen/Lambie
    11. Habs/Mvovo
    12. Jean/WO/Bosman/James
    13. Juan/JPP/Ebersohn
    14. JPP/Aplon/Ndungane/Shadow
    15. Zane/Hennie/Pietersen

    And I missed a load of names with international experience that can be called up!

  7. Kat said Meyer :
    “He fears the unknown and seeks the security of the known.”
    Seriously?

    Taking guys out of retirement as a security blanket is more creepy-er than the Bulls pink jerseys.

    You got the job for 4 years man, forward ho.
    If I hear about him calling Frikke Welsh to come back – I’m gonna puke.

  8. Reply to JT_BOKBEFOK! @ 4:42 pm:

    PS: I named enough names for 3 Bok teams – 1 of which will at least be TEST quality without bringing back has beens from overseas!?
    Only real quality in EU that I would consider would be the likes of Muller, Claasens, Flouw, JF, Ruan but I did not see many of these names on HM shopping list :roll:

  9. Reply to JT_BOKBEFOK! @ 3:11 pm:

    geez, playing with has beens? Nowhere do I read that he plans to keep than longer than necessary. I read Heyneke wants them for the England test. He will build a team that he believes can win the world cup in 2015. He knows these guys wont last, but he also knows that the English wont come running at us, they will throw hard men at us, testing our forwards.

    He doesnt want to lose his first home series as Bok coach, that I believe. Cos if he does, the knives will be out. Like I said give hin time, this test series does not give him the time to build, it only gives him time to surround himself with people he trusts to do the job.

  10. Morne there is no logic in this. Just like there is no logic in allowing a national coach just 1 week to prepare for a test series. It is plein afrikaans fkn belaglik. You cannot even teach a guy to catch a ball in a week, so he sticks to the people he knows and believes in, cos he knows he doesnt need to teach them the basics.

    I do not expect the tri nations team to resemble the team for the English tour.

  11. Reply to Aldo @ 5:23 pm:

    It has been mentioned that Vic/Fourie will be involved until 2013 from where he will appoint his RWC captain with 2 years to work with.

    I fear for Meyer – I have seen the media destroy coaches in the past. For my money not knowing what form Bakkies, Gurthro, FDP and Matfield is in or will be in come England is just as much of a gamble of playing an inexperienced youngster – but then the public won’t be as forgiving if he goes for the former…

  12. Neither the latter. The SA public is only forgiving if the media pushes for that forgiveness. We as a public follow what, die beeld, burger, etc says as fact. If media24 does not fogive the coach, then the SA public also choose not to forgive him.

    So in other words, if Heyneke loses the English series, the SA public will not forgive him. So then I say he gets to choose his men and fight the way he chooses. He at least deserves that, if he can apparently not rely on our trust and support,

  13. And no I do not only back Heyneke because he coached the Bulls. I also backed PdV even just before the wc. I believe the Bok coack allways deserves the benefit of the doubt. Cos bliksem he has ahard job.

  14. Jy is reg oom boer, so eintlik moet ek saam julle skree dat heynecke dom is. Maar steeds ek bly by my punt, hy verdien ons ondersteuning vir dit wat hy doen.

  15. En oom Boer, die old age vang jou, ek het nie n 2de span nie, net die Bulls. Maar nationale span teenoor provinsiale span is nie n 2de span nie, maar ja ek is skuldig. Bulle bo bokke, so ek HAAT maak die bulle almal bokke. As jy my vra, kies net leeus sharks, cheaters en western poefter speler. Dan wen ons elke jaar cc.

  16. Its a mistake.
    That conservative 10 man rugby blikers.
    We have enough talent to start
    a young team,but no.
    He knows best.
    Time will tell.

  17. Start a team in a week? Duiwel I have a lot of respect for most of your views. Regtig ek dink jy ken rugby, maar jy kan nie n span begin in n week nie.

    N week gee jou kans om mense te vertrou wat jy altyd het en te hoop hulle hou nog 3 wedstryde. Hy sal bou, hy glo aan spanbou, maar nie nou al nie.

  18. And there it starts with Jan De Koning

    Thanks for proving all the fear about you 100% correct Cape media

    Although one can understand that Meyer wants to take no risks against the Six Nations runners-up, you have to ask what the plans are for some of the youngsters that have made their mark in Super Rugby this year.

    It is always difficult to judge the form of players playing in Europe and the leagues in Japan are no-where close to the intensity you find in Super Rugby. Add to this the possible captain, Victor Matfield, last having played a game against the Barbarians in 2011 having done no pre-season or any rugby related conditioning this gamble might well blow up in Meyer’s face.

    Experience might be crucial against England but if those experienced players are undercooked and off the pace then a gamble with in-form inexperienced players might be a better bet.

    Given the caliber players still playing in Super Rugby, some of them experienced Springboks whilst others have captained their franchises with distinction, eyebrows are perhaps rightfully raised at Meyer’s plans.

    Also, whilst one can never underestimate England who came off an impressive Six Nations campaign, they are also a relative new team under a new coach still trying to find their feet.

    And the clincher

    This might be a gamble Meyer will regret in a couple of weeks.

    Classic

    First the Brenden Nel setup of a judicious warning over “Blue Boks”

    Then “You may regret your choice”

    Rather be honest Jan de Koning and say

    “We’ll make you regret that choice”

    Last will come the official thumbs down from someone like Mark Keohane…

    Reply to Morné @ 6:29 pm:

    Bullshit

    Any South African coach is judged by what the media wants to judge him on…

    All coaches are judged on their team’s performance by the public.

    The only time the squealing for heads began with De Villiers and White was when their teams lost in 2006 and 2010.

  19. Reply to JT_BOKBEFOK! @ 11:23 am:

    You then did not see that he’s holding planning camps with the Super 15 players of each side whom he thinks may be part of the national setup.

    You know

    Like Johan Goosen, Elton Jantjes, Jaco Taute, Caylib Oosthuizen, Willie Le Roux, Sias Ebersohn, Josh Strauss…

    All those young guns in the Super 15 who will be crocked and broken after more or less fourteen rounds of continuous action against the best club sides in the world…

  20. Reply to DavidS @ 8:20 pm:

    Slight correction, I only lifted two direct quotes from Rugby365 – the words to this article are mine.

    Reply to DavidS @ 8:20 pm:

    And absolute horse shit.

    PDV was under the firing line before his first test thanks to Hoskins’ quote on his appointment. And from there on he was in shit in the media for the whole of 2008 for his ‘total rugby’ philosophy.

    Even when he won the B&I Lions series in 2009 people wanted his head.

    I can easily quote you comments and articles in 2009, his most successful year after we whitewashed the All Blacks to win the 3N.

    The media wanted him gone even then.

  21. Reply to Morné @ 8:56 pm:

    Crap.

    What the media said in 2009 was that “the senior players coach the team”

    Nobody wanted him out.

    In fact there was grudging respect for him.

    I am glad you made no mention of the other Bok coaches.

  22. Slight correction, I only lifted two direct quotes from Rugby365 – the words to this article are mine.

    Pity

    I expected more.

  23. Aldo,
    Goed om jou weer te sien.

    Ek glo jy is reg.

    Sy keuses is bitterlik beperk.

    Maar ek glo hy kan die Bokke
    in die regte rigting neem.

  24. I see the tworld is already washed up with the blogosphere of Cape pro twits and bloggers squealing about Meyer’s proposed selections.

    It is only a matter of time before your media add their bit…

    The Caper media will make sure Heyneke will lose the job by 2013 in time for Gert Smal to take over and lead them to 2015…

  25. Reply to DavidS @ 9:07 pm:

    Please, before you spill any more bile look through this site’s archives from January 2008. Carry on to 2009 even and read the articles copy and pasted on this site.

    You don’t even have to go far, just check our archives.

    PDV was doomed before he even picked his first squad.

    Reply to DavidS @ 9:08 pm:

    You would. But then my aim is not to please you just to write what I feel.

    Reply to DavidS @ 9:11 pm:

    Why don’t you ask a true blue reporter, Brenden Nel, what he thinks of bringing Matfield out of retirement?

    I am out.

    Cheers.

  26. Reply to DavidS @ 8:20 pm:

    You have a bee in you bonnet re the Cape media
    and you are feeding it shit. Try honey.

    The points made are all legitimate and to a big
    degree also the thoughts of rugby followers.
    OK, maybe only those south of the Jukskei..
    That little stream you call a river.

    For the record: I’m backing Heyneke all the way.
    But I hope he comes to his senses regarding
    Victor and Fourie du Preez and bites the bullit.

  27. No problem with though. If they ban this, you can be pretty sure there will be some who will use it as a precedent to ban Christian assemblies next.

  28. How BADASS would it be if Meyer saw SCHALK BRITS as a comfy security blanket?
    WooHoo!
    :wave:

  29. Yeh I know about Europe JT.

    There is no freedom of speech and expression in Europe.

    You CAN (and some DO) go to jail for thought crimes. Hell Bridget Bardot got fined a few years back for expressing annoyance about the Muslim Immigrants in France.

    I know that Australia and Canada have “hate laws” that they prosecute.

    That is damn scary…

  30. You’ve got a point JT but they only do that if you leave the country.
    Things everywhere have gotten more big brother all over the world I’d guess. Governments are spooked as they’re running out of money and control.
    Obama is an incompetent and I hope he is out soon. Romney ain’t no peach but at least he’s not a crossdressing commie like Obama.
    :Ollie:

  31. Reply to Americano @ 1:42 pm:

    you sure about that? Last I heard he signed a bill allowing him to do it in the USA as well…
    PS: Romney would be the perfect puppet in the whitehouse – not a original idea in his head & he will flipflop in whatever way the senate/congress wants him to
    Obama is a dissapointment, could have been so much better if he really was a socialist!

  32. Reply to JT_BOKBEFOK! @ 2:03 pm:

    I think it was Churchill who said that the biggest problem for socialists are that at some point they run out of other ppeople’s money to spend. Greece already there. Whole world IMO is going back to conservative rule. Until everuthing is fixed and the socialists will screw it up again

  33. Reply to JT_BOKBEFOK! @ 2:28 pm:

    Seriously though, I will be very surprised if the world GDP per capita has increased over the past 20 years. If with India and China growing the way they did. If you subtract the “growth” based on consumption financed by debt from that the picture will not be pretty. Here people are bitching about the strong AUd and how it is killing the manufacturing and tourism sectors, but very few want to acknowledge the effect of the high minimum wages for unskilled work in it.

    Realignment is the only medicine for the pain that needs to follow worldwide. I think the States, UK and Europe in a lesser sense has started. Not dramatically, but atleast they started.

  34. Nah

    America might put a drone on you but they allow everyone from commies to Nazis and everything in between to say whatever they want to.

    In America you do not go to jail for saying “stop the Muslim immigrants!” like in France… or “deny the Holocaust”… in Germany that’s 5 years in jail… in America they’ll just laugh at you, go “yeah right”, giggle somewhat condescendingly, and continue on with their lives… The German way is totally counter productive because it lends credence and even some sympathy to these looney tunes.

    Yes Eric Holder got Obammy to sign the hate speech laws into law and it apssed on the back of riders and deal brokering in the senate and house.

    HOWEVER it has not been given a start date yet… ALL American Human Rights organizations are just waiting for that to happen…

    Given the HUGE protection their Supreme Court has given to freedom of expression I have ZERO doubt that those laws will be struck down if they are ever used to prosecute anyone… in contrast to Canada, Australia, Germany, Austria, France, Holland etc.

    Reply to Deon @ 2:24 pm:

    Socialism made Germany the most powerful nation in Europe before WW2…

    And within ten years after WW2 they were there again…

    Collectively the EU still out strips the US in GDP.

    If you ad Canada, the UK, China and Japan it is clear that well run First World socialist nations are fully capable of competing on all economic spheres with purely capitalist ones.

    ____________________________

    Deon

    If by conservative you mean nationalist then you are right. In uncertain times those kind of movements that promote protection of self and protection against “other” do thrive. It is what gave the pre WW2 nationalist movements in Germany, Holland, Belgium, Italy, Hungary, Romania and Poland so much power.

    You see the same happening now. But whereas Deon sees a move to conservatism, he is wrong. The old style conservatives are as dead as Churchill. The new style are like that guy from BNP, Geert Wilders, Hungarian Arrow Party, Golden Greece, Marine Le Pen and the Vlaams Belang guys.

    The movement is more to ethnic separation and nationalism than the old style capitalist systems that gave us the 2008 crashes.

    At the moment these guys are united by anti immigration sentiment… but the corollary is the scary pro nationalism sentiment…

    You can see it in the US with guys like the Minutemen, The Oath takers, the Tea Party etc. The revolt is NOT from the left BUT from the right and t is against old style conservatism and it’s ever moving centrist slide.

    JT

    True capitalists will always find slaves…

    Hell in China, Malaysia, Thailand and India there are zillions of the little yellow slanty eyed b***tards just itching to eke out an existence to make fatcat conservative capitalists richer in sweat shop manufacturing plants working 12 hour shifts and paid USD1 per day…

    I recently saw a YT clip of Neo Nazis protesting the 1945 bombing of Dresden facing down and even chasing off anti Nazi protestors… two things…

    First protesting AGAINST people protesting a genocidal civilian murdering bomb attack is critically uncool.

    Second, this is probably the first time since 1933 WW2 that the Neo Nazis were not driven off and had their meeting broken up…

    *I assume sarcasm is understandable…

  35. Reply to DavidS @ 3:15 pm:

    One grt the feeling here that people wants government to get out of their lifes and let them get on with it. Conservative is maybe not the right word, as conservatism also relied on alot of regulation, but then nationalism doesnt describe it that well either. Put otherwise ” just leave us the fuck alone and spend our taxes to our benefit first. If there is any left then we can look after others.”. Oh and if the socialists are in charge, “Stop wasting our money of braindead ideas”

  36. Reply to Deon @ 3:24 pm:

    liberal or conservative – all just labels! We basically want the same thing – just degrees in quantity!
    Taxing me is fine as long as I know my taxes are going into health care/educational benefits (free HC and free education), infrastructure & other social programs.
    Don’t use my taxes on wars, bailing out bankers and beurocratical EU BS!

  37. Both of you are right.

    There is a growing revolutionary movemnt.

    Either of you ever read Herbert’s Dune series of books?

    They are actually superb allegorical books not intended to be made into stupid movies. In particular once the Atreides become leaders he uses the books as a vehicle to espouse the view that democracy is doomed to fail eventually. The reason? The governing people in a democracy eventually come to fear the voters so much they start to regulate what the voters can or cannot do with a forest of laws designed to control the voters and their behaviour which is then overseen by an increasingly huge bureaucracy. Eventually the bureaucrats and not the the legislative and executive authority rules. He wrote these books in the fifties…

    How incredibly prescient…

    What is not cool is that he holds forth a benign dictatorship as the actual best form of government.

    His reasoning in a dialogue between Leto Atreides II and Duncan Idaho that shows the maxim of “power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely” is completely wrong but that power does not of itself corrupt but does attract corruptible people is absolutely astounding in its brilliance.

  38. Reply to DavidS @ 4:39 pm:

    What is not cool is that he holds forth a benign dictatorship as the actual best form of government.
    ——-
    If it’s achieveable, maybe yes. None of the
    others work, do they? I mean take the RSA
    “democracy” as a superb example.

  39. Reply to DavidS @ 3:15 pm:

    Regarding Hitler’s economic policies:

    He lowered unemployment by building war machines and infrastructure. Paid for with confiscated money (Jews, Austria, Czechoslovakia and so on) and rejecting Versailles.

    Some good and some bad there but the problem with building war machines are that they only bring returns when you use them to confiscate more stuff from others (Poland and so on).

    Not a sustainable way to build prosperity at all.

    With average business cycles around eight years, the six that he had before WWII broke out is not really enough to call anything a success either.

    Germany had enough social and intellectual capital to become powerful, once the burden of Versailles was removed, regardless of who ran the place.

    On the USA v. the EU.

    The EU’s GDP is only larger because they have 500m people compared to the 300m in the USA. On a GDP per capita basis the USA is far ahead.

    Strip out all the new countries and compare only the old EC 10 and the USA is still ahead.

  40. Reply to JT_BOKBEFOK! @ 3:32 pm:

    Listened to an interesting series of lectures recently: Empires of Trust, by Thomas F Madden.

    There is an interesting section on how Greece became a part of the Roman empire, not by conquest, but because Rome admired Greek culture and went in to defend the Greeks against invasions from Macedonia. Eventually Rome saw itself as the guarantor of Greek freedom and independence. So much so that not only was nobody allowed to invade Greece, the Greeks were not allowed to wage war against each other either.

    First the Greeks were resentful and anti Roman but later on they enjoyed the Roman security blanket so much that they abolished their own armies and stopped marrying and procreating.

    Replace Rome and Greece, with the USA and Europe in that story and it is delightfully similar to the situation we have today.

  41. Reply to Timeo @ 3:51 am:

    Very interesting. Could one then say that the current social attitude in Greece (one of entitlement and low productivity) was bred centuries ago?

    If so, what does it teach us about today’s decisions only having impacts after a long period of time?

    Only problem is with todays population and technology centuries can be reduced to decades if not years. Information flows so much faster.

  42. Reply to Deon @ 6:26 am:

    Exactly WRT to Greece and their population…

    With the highest population of Greeks outside Greece itself here in Victoria… it grates me that they still at any opportunity have this sense of entitlement in the work-place… deem there to be no better country in the world i.e. Greece and almost denounce being Australian despite being born here not to mention the fact Greece itself has become a filthy hole both socially, environmentally and economically…

  43. Reply to bryce_in_oz @ 7:58 am:

    A bit of a generalisation. My neighbour is an Australian born Greek and he is extremely hard working and a great guy very proud of Aus. Yes they still love and are proud of their Greek food, but then so are we as Saffas.

    My daughter’s teacher is a Greek immigrant and the best teacher she had thus far.
    The minister at our church is a South African born Greek and a great guy.

    I was referring to the troubles the people in Greek have now.

  44. There was nothing in there regarding Greece today. It was about the parallels between the Roman and American empires.

    The Greeks trusted Rome, not just to protect them from outside threats, but also not to abuse their power and threaten Greek freedoms and independence.

    So they abolished their armies.

    JT wants to abolish the Austrian army.

    Because he trusts the USA. :mrgreen:

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