SH Form XV

June 11, 2012
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I thought I’d give this ‘team of the week’ thing a go, not so much to tell you who I thought stood out on the weekend, but to actually try and figure out how many will agree with me!

Okay so here it is, I pick my form XV from all three major Southern Hemisphere teams that played over the weekend.  Sorry Argies, I did not watch your game after the first 15 minutes bored me to shit.

So my form XV includes players from New Zealand, South Africa and Australia.

Form XV Week 1 of Incoming Tours:

15.          Israel Dagg

14.          Julian Savea

13.          Jean de Villiers

12.          Sonny Bill Williams

11.          Bryan Habana

10.          Dan Carter

9.            Will Genia

8.            Kieran Read

7.            Willem Alberts

6.            David Pocock

5.            Juandre Kruger

4.            Brodie Retallick

3.            Owen Franks

2.            Bismarck du Plessis

1.            Beast

** Savea swops jersey’s for the above team, he ran out at number 11 on Saturday.

What say you?

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37 Comments

  1. avatar Vernonimous says:
    June 11th, 2012 at 12:29 pm

    12. Fran’s Steyn
    13. Sonny Bill Williams

    Just a thought.

  2. avatar Vernonimous says:
    June 11th, 2012 at 12:53 pm

    That would be Frans without the help of the unhelpful predictive text.

  3. avatar bryce_in_oz says:
    June 11th, 2012 at 12:59 pm

    I agree with the Sydney Morning Herald’s team… Jannie DP got through a huge amount of work, Whitelock better than Retalick and they had the Welsh winger (I didn’t)… otherwise spot-on really…

  4. avatar Morné says:
    June 11th, 2012 at 1:03 pm

    Reply to bryce_in_oz @ 12:59 pm:

    Whitelock was 5 which is why I did not consider him, yes I know I changed wings around but their roles not as defined as 4 & 5 lock imo.

    Jannie Dup was tough to leave out.

  5. avatar DavidS says:
    June 11th, 2012 at 2:07 pm

    Timeo is going to moer you about Spies

    His blank spot avatar is going to have an angry face on it…

  6. avatar DavidS says:
    June 11th, 2012 at 2:08 pm

    In any case, I have to admit I did not watch the other games so hard to call.

    Morne did you consider that Wales and Poms were a far sterner test than the Micks?

  7. avatar DavidS says:
    June 11th, 2012 at 2:09 pm

    Felipe Contemponi was apparently excellent against Italy

  8. avatar Morné says:
    June 11th, 2012 at 2:11 pm

    Reply to DavidS @ 2:08 pm:

    No not considering the touring teams at all, the idea of this is mainly with a view on the Championship trophy later and which of the 3 teams players features most in the form XV

  9. avatar bryce_in_oz says:
    June 11th, 2012 at 2:16 pm

    Have to say the old war-horse Nathan Sharpe was in top form too…

  10. avatar JT_BOKBEFOK! says:
    June 11th, 2012 at 4:31 pm

    13 – I thought Conrad Smith was brilliant, never been a fan though but he has good vision.

  11. avatar Morné says:
    June 11th, 2012 at 6:13 pm

    Reply to JT_BOKBEFOK! @ 4:31 pm:

    He was left out by default of his teeth and his bitching at the ref! :twisted:

  12. avatar DavidS says:
    June 11th, 2012 at 7:01 pm

    Oh right. Thanks… good idea

    Check out my wife’s comany banner on http://www.News24.co.za at the top of the page.

  13. avatar DavidS says:
    June 11th, 2012 at 7:09 pm

    Reply to Morné @ 2:11 pm:

    No man, what I meant was whether you considered that the 6N sides were not of the same quality.

    So Carter may have looked excellent against the useless Micks whilst Quade Cooper had a far bigger test against the Taffies and Morne Steyn too.

    As in the sides in action faced different strength opposition.

    This should affect the way one views their performances over the weekend.

  14. avatar Morné says:
    June 11th, 2012 at 7:15 pm

    Reply to DavidS @ 7:09 pm:

    Oh hell no, that will open up a whole other can of worms!

    Its like the Sharks saying their win against the Lions does not mean nearly as much as the one against the Stormers a week before…

    Oh wait…

    Nevermind…

  15. avatar Timeo says:
    June 12th, 2012 at 2:45 am

    Reply to DavidS @ 2:07 pm:

    You must be mistaking me for some else.
    I can’t remember ever being angry about rugby. Not even whilst playing myself.

  16. avatar Timeo says:
    June 12th, 2012 at 3:28 am

    Not that I want to criticize our esteemed captain but shouldn’t the fact that, that other guy ran right over him…. twice, count against him somewhat?

  17. avatar bryce_in_oz says:
    June 12th, 2012 at 3:33 am

    Reply to Timeo @ 3:28 am:

    Well it cancels out when he ran right over two of them for his try…

  18. avatar Timeo says:
    June 12th, 2012 at 4:36 am

    Reply to bryce_in_oz @ 3:33 am:

    Guess so.
    He did enough good stuff to make up for it and luckily Frans Steyn was close by to limit the damage every time.

    It’s one of the risks you have with the hold-em-up tackles that HM is implementing. Beware of Sonny Bill.

  19. avatar bryce_in_oz says:
    June 12th, 2012 at 6:38 am

    Reply to Timeo @ 4:36 am:

    Just watching the game again now…

    JDV’s first bashing run at the big Islander saw Tuilagi fail to stop him… Tuilagi’s first bashing run at JDV saw him lucky not to get penalised for leading with the elbow… but JDV still stopped him after going to ground…

    Yep agreed on SBW they’ll go for the ball in the tackle if using the same defensive ploy…

  20. avatar JT_BOKBEFOK! says:
    June 12th, 2012 at 6:52 am

    Reply to bryce_in_oz @ 6:38 am:

    best back defenders IMO were Morne Steyn and Habana :applause:
    Followed closely by Frans Steyn. Hougie missed a few close n but his cover defense saved our arises a few times.

  21. avatar bryce_in_oz says:
    June 12th, 2012 at 9:22 am

    Reply to JT_BOKBEFOK! @ 6:52 am:

    Hougie misses far too many though this year…

    Frans’ positional play in defence is simply awesome… he’s a few steps ahead before it even happens on cover…

    Habs did gift England that try though… Franny ‘almost’ made it there to save him…

    Morne was great positionally too on defence…

  22. avatar DavidS says:
    June 12th, 2012 at 9:45 am

    Morne Steyn’s a lot like Piet Visagie of Boertjie’s era in defence.

    You never notice him but you also never see an attack in his channel simply because he no nonsense commits and stops the attack with no fanfare or big bruising smashes then rolls away and rushes back to protect his channel again.

    Underrated defender.

  23. avatar DavidS says:
    June 12th, 2012 at 9:48 am

    Timeo

    Ja I know but I was looking for the emotion…

  24. avatar Timeo says:
    June 13th, 2012 at 5:04 am

    Reply to bryce_in_oz @ 9:22 am:

    Habana was faced with a 3 on one situation.
    The guy who gifted England the try was Adriaan Strauss. First by botching the line-out throw in conjunction with Coenie, giving England the ball with 30sec to go, and then by supplying the gap for the crucial line-break.

  25. avatar Timeo says:
    June 13th, 2012 at 5:10 am

    Reply to DavidS @ 9:48 am:

    I have nothing invested in Spies but from time to time we do need some balance to our resident rabid anti-Spies-ites.

    Just don’t quote from that rugbystats site.

  26. avatar bryce_in_oz says:
    June 13th, 2012 at 6:21 am

    Reply to Timeo @ 5:04 am</a
    I disagree… he had 3 Boks and 2 Poms on his inside and he came out of the line 'gifting' his mark on the outside an open run…

    He was played like a fiddle… there is no defending it mate… it's there clear as day 1m.36sec…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_RbCJamgtA

    His only blemish on the day… but an extremely costly one…

  27. avatar JT_BOKBEFOK! says:
    June 13th, 2012 at 7:13 am

    Reply to Timeo @ 5:10 am:

    not anti spies – just anti player not doing his job in defense and asking the question. I think he did rather well again with ball in hand (better than Eben as example) and did well in the LO. But he reminds me of Breyton Paulse who was a master at avoiding the need to make tackles.

    Add rugby stats to that list of “not doing their job” :whistling:

  28. avatar JT_BOKBEFOK! says:
    June 13th, 2012 at 7:23 am

    Reply to JT_BOKBEFOK! @ 7:13 am:

    PS as a coach I know that no player is perfect and make mistakes but what gets me is the praise someone gets for something he does not even do :shake:

    If the question is not asked it will be ignored and the next time Dagg for example runs at Spies we will lose another test! I hope HM does his own stats on tackle count at least! Would I drop Spies for test2? probably not but I will address the FACT that he shrinks away from frontal contact!

  29. avatar bryce_in_oz says:
    June 13th, 2012 at 8:12 am

    Reply to JT_BOKBEFOK! @ 7:13 am:

    http://www.rugbystats.com.au is merely an algorithmic site by a fan that echo’s the exact stats as they come in from SportsData via the SMH and http://www.rugbyheaven.com.au

  30. avatar DavidS says:
    June 13th, 2012 at 11:18 am

    Reply to bryce_in_oz @ 6:21 am:

    The Aussies and Kiwis incessantly played him like that in 2010 and even 2011.. it was a setup aimed straight at Habana because he has a penchant for breaking the line.

  31. avatar Timeo says:
    June 13th, 2012 at 1:17 pm

    Reply to bryce_in_oz @ 6:21 am:

    What I see at 1:37 is that Jean de Villiers is aiming to defend #12 and that outside of 12 are 3 England players and Habana.

    Sure. Habana should have stayed wide then 12 would have had to pass to one of the close guys with-in reach of the cover defence.
    JdV should have rushed onto 12 to stop the play or force an earlier pass.

    But must of all Strauss should not have allowed the line-break 2 phases earlier.

    And they should have called a simple front jumper line-out with maul at 79:30.

    Blame should be spread all round.

  32. avatar DavidS says:
    June 13th, 2012 at 10:11 pm

    Nah

    If you see this clip from 9:30 you’ll see the Boks actually had the Poms covered.

    It was Habana coming straight off his line that caused the try.

    If he had just kept his eye on Foden watched his man the defence would have been able to cover the midfield attack. All he needed to do was drift with the defensive line.

    Frans Steyn and Jean De Villiers and Alberts and Daniel all have the drift covered. All Habana had to do was stay on his man.

    If you even freeze frame at 09:34 you will see the defence is actually 5 on 4 and Habana is rushing inside of Foden like a twat and not trusting his mates to make the tackles. Habana is from 09:31 ball watching and NOT watching what his opposite number is doing. He is rushing towards where Foden WAS but the super wise and obviously situationally aware Foden is immediately pushing OUTSIDE towards touch and away from Habana’s left shoulder whilst Habana is coming up too quickly and NOT towards the wing drifting outside of him. He is rushing the position where Foden WAS.

    At 09:34 Habana is caught in no man’s land with the three attackers covered by three Boks and Habana NOT covering his man.

    At 09:35 he even hesitates and you can see his arms flail (obviously thinking intercept) and KAPOW beaten for pace. In fact two Boks (Frans Steyn and Keegan Daniel) STILL get over to make cover tackles but too late, prove the midfield was sufficiently covered.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASYi1IvD9kQ&feature=related

    Sorry Timeo on this one you’re not correct.

    Habana must take 100% of blame for this try.

  33. avatar Timeo says:
    June 14th, 2012 at 3:03 pm

    Reply to DavidS @ 10:11 pm:

    I concede.
    Watching from behind it is clear that there was no overlap.

    One has to ask if Habana has been exposed like that in Stormers games recently.

    Not that I recall.

    Is the player or the system to blame? When it comes to defense, in my opinion, it is mostly the system.

  34. avatar bryce_in_oz says:
    June 14th, 2012 at 3:11 pm

    Reply to Timeo @ 3:03 pm:

    Last year definitely for the Stormers… cannot recall it this year though…

  35. avatar JT_BOKBEFOK! says:
    June 14th, 2012 at 3:16 pm

    Reply to Timeo @ 3:03 pm:

    maybe it is not the system or the player to blame – maybe we should blame Foden for his deceptive running line and the perfect pass to put him in space.

    Sometimes a play like that needs to be :applause:

  36. avatar Boertjie says:
    June 14th, 2012 at 3:48 pm

    Reply to JT_BOKBEFOK! @ 3:16 pm:

    Habs has made this mistake too often,
    I’m afraid.
    Not so much for Stormers this year, also
    considering he played quite a few games
    at 13.
    HM would most certainly have attended to
    this mistake.

  37. avatar DavidS says:
    June 14th, 2012 at 5:06 pm

    Not sure. The slow speed at which he came off the line seems to indicate he did not really know whether to blitz or drift. He was definitely going for the intercept. Foden just played him. He’s been played like that by the Kiwis too a few times the past two seasons.

    The way Steyn and Daniel turned to make second line seems to indicate drift rather than blitz. As it was the Poms almost screwed it up by running their pod into a clump and only a hail mary pass to Foden saved the situation.

    I’m still going to say that Habana seemed unsure and was played.

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