Hier kom Orania!

April 21, 2013
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Orania se rugbyspan is toegelaat tot Griekwas se kompetisie – en sal teen enige ander span speel.

Marlene Malan, Rapport

Gee die Orania Rebelle ’n regverdige kans!

So sê rugbybase van die ­Griekwaland-Wes-rugbyunie (GWRU) nadat dié  vyftiental, die volk­staat Orania se amptelike rugbyspan, tot die GWRU toegelaat is en nou op klubvlak hul liga-buiging sal maak.

“Dit gaan oor rugby, nie politiek nie, en die Rebelle is goed,” sê Winston du Plessis, ondervoorsitter van die unie se Kimberley-streek waaronder Orania val. Hennie van der Merwe, president van GWRU, steun hom.

“Kom ons kyk wat gebeur. Hulle is bereid om teen almal te speel en enige span kan op Orania teen hulle speel.

“Ek kry van nêrens af moeilikheid hieroor nie.

“In elk geval, hoeveel ander wit spanne is daar?”

Quintin Diederichs, uitvoerende hoof van die Rebelle, sê hulle speel rugby “as ’n Afrikanerspan, nie as ’n wit span nie. Orania is kultuurgedrewe, nie politiekgedrewe nie.

“Dit gaan oor om die beste te wees, ons teen die beste te meet.

“Enige kwota in sportspanne druis lynreg in teen sportmanskap.

“Ons woon in ’n land waar baie jong Afrikaners weens regstellende aksie nie geleenthede kry nie. Deur rugby reik ons uit na sulke ouens. Dis ’n sportklub met ’n maatskaplike verantwoordelikheid. Daarom help ons behoeftige Afrikaners wat kan en wil.

“Maar ons is in die eerste plek ’n rugbyklub, nie ’n liefdadigheidsorganisasie nie.”

Du Plessis erken hulle werf spelers.

“Ek ry na ’n plek soos Pretoria, na mense soos motorwagte. Dan vra ek: ‘Speel jy rugby?’

“Onlangs het daar ’n outjie by ons aangekom wat nie eens ’n matras gehad het nie. Nou speel hy vir die Rebelle, hy’t ’n werk, hy het die matras afbetaal wat ons hom gegee het en hy huur ’n kamer.

“Dis nie ’n bakhand-situasie waar aalmoese uitgedeel word nie. Om deel van die Rebelle te word, moet jy goed rugby kan speel. Dan help ons jou werk kry as dit nodig is.”

Diederichs sê die rugbyspan se mededinging op ’n groter vlak “is ook deel van ons poging om die stigma wat aan Orania kleef die nek in te slaan”.

Toe die Rebelle aansoek om insluiting by die GWRU gedoen het, “is die vraag aan al die ander ligaspanne gevra: ‘Het julle probleme met die insluiting van die Orania Rebelle?’ En die antwoord was eenparig: ‘Nee.’”

Volgens Du Plessis “is ons saam met die Orania Rebelle om dieselfde tafel, op dieselfde voet. As ons in die liga nie probleme het met hulle nie, hoekom moet mense daarbuite probleme hê?

“Ons fokus is rugby, nie ras nie. Ons jaag nie spelers weg nie.”

Hy erken die spanne Thistles en Universals staan as die Kimberley-streek se twee “bruin” spanne bekend – desondanks speel vyf wit spelers vir eersgenoemde en agt vir laasgenoemde.

GEEN RASSISME

“Ek het nog geen rassisme van die Orania-mense ervaar nie. Ná elke wedstryd kuier ons saam. Hoe kan ons wit spelers in Universals en Thistles hê en dan diskrimineer teen ander wit mense wat wil saamspeel?”

Sakkie Koopman, GWRU-visepresident, sê “mense wat wil speel, kan nie benadeel word weens hul kleur nie. Hierdie is ’n klub wat van die grond af wil kom.

“Ja, Saru hét ’n transformasiebeleid, maar as die Rebelle eers goed funksioneer, kan ons later saam met hulle kyk wat oor transformasie gedoen kan word.”

Volgens Diederichs “het ons nêrens ’n sent ontvang vir spanontwikkeling nie, hoewel ons vir steun gevra het”.

Hy sê borge help, “en die spelers bedink self vindingryke maniere om geld in te samel”.

Die gemiddelde ouderdom van die Rebelle is 25, met die oudste 36 en die jongste 19, sê hy.

Andy Colquhoun, woordvoerder van Jurie Roux, uitvoerende hoof van SA Rugby, het by navraag gesê Roux is nie in dié stadium bereikbaar vir kommentaar nie.

Colquhoun het Rapport daarop gewys dat daar ook rugbyspanne is wat nét swart is.

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49 Comments

  1. avatar biltongbek says:
    April 21st, 2013 at 2:59 pm

    Ek het nie eers geweet daar is genoeg mense in Orania om n’ rugby span te maak nie

  2. avatar The Year of the Cheetah says:
    April 21st, 2013 at 3:27 pm

    nothing wrong with this.

    yet, if a black oke pitches up and speaks afrikaans he should be allowed to play for them.

    simple as

  3. avatar Cosa says:
    April 21st, 2013 at 3:53 pm

    Ek neem eksepsie teen die inleidingsparagraaf “Orania se niegetransformeerde rugbyspan”.

    Die teendeel is waar. Die span is ten VOLLE getransformeer, met ‘n span wat 100% die bevolkingssamestelling van Orania reflekteer.

  4. avatar Boertjie says:
    April 21st, 2013 at 4:46 pm

    Reply to Cosa @ 3:53 pm:

    Kla by Rapport.

    Reply to The Year of the Cheetah @ 3:27 pm:

    No. Orania has to do with race/ethnicity/language/religion.

  5. avatar Morné says:
    April 21st, 2013 at 6:49 pm

    Reply to Boertjie @ 4:46 pm:

    Race? If that is one of the conditions then they should never be allowed to play.

  6. avatar Timeo says:
    April 21st, 2013 at 8:28 pm

    Reply to Morné @ 6:49 pm:

    But race is a condition for every team in SA, is it not?

  7. avatar Morné says:
    April 21st, 2013 at 9:04 pm

    Reply to Timeo @ 8:28 pm:

    No it’s not.

  8. avatar DavidS says:
    April 21st, 2013 at 9:19 pm

    Reply to Morné @ 9:04 pm:

    YES…. IT IS

  9. avatar DavidS says:
    April 21st, 2013 at 9:20 pm

    But Brendon Orania is a self owned town that is 100% representative of its demographic.

  10. avatar Morné says:
    April 21st, 2013 at 9:20 pm

    Reply to DavidS @ 9:19 pm:

    Please elaborate.

  11. avatar DavidS says:
    April 21st, 2013 at 9:23 pm

    Te idiotic thing is that it is a creation of media hype that Orania is a racist town.

    They entered into co-operation agreements with the surrounding coloured and Xhosa communities.

  12. avatar Boertjie says:
    April 21st, 2013 at 9:26 pm

    Reply to Morné @ 9:20 pm:

    Google Orania.
    Maori’s are allowed to select a race based team.
    Why not Afrikaners living in a minute little all-white enclave?
    Must they import a few blacks to be ‘legitimate’?

  13. avatar Morné says:
    April 21st, 2013 at 10:47 pm

    Reply to Boertjie @ 9:26 pm:

    Maori’s = NZ. Last I checked, they did not have and Apartheid-like regime in that country.

  14. avatar Morné says:
    April 21st, 2013 at 10:51 pm

    Reply to Boertjie @ 9:26 pm:

    If they want to segregate themselves into that small little enclave – good for them.

    Game changes a bit though if they want to come out an play with the folks who support a multi-racial society.

  15. avatar Morné says:
    April 21st, 2013 at 10:52 pm

    Anycase, kids to burp – sure this thread will go to the dogs in the next few days – will catch up with it later.

  16. avatar The Year of the Cheetah says:
    April 22nd, 2013 at 1:02 am

    There is nothing wrong with any language based organisation.

    Hence if a black kid who speaks afrikaans rocks he should be allowed to play. My own brother is black yet knows no other language than afrikaans and a bit of broken english – so he should be allowed to play for them.

    You cannot base anything on race and hope to get away with it. language is a different story.

  17. avatar Timeo says:
    April 22nd, 2013 at 2:19 am

    Reply to Morné @ 9:04 pm:

    Last I checked, an all white Bok team, or all-white SR teams were not allowed.

    Unless there’s been a recall of those decrees, race is still a condition for SA teams to be allowed to play.

  18. avatar DavidS says:
    April 22nd, 2013 at 7:58 am

    There is a transformation and quota system in place Timeo.

    Brendon = speaking Afrikaans does not make you an Afrikaner any more than speaking Russian makes you a Russian. Jy moet bietjie wakker skrik hoor.

    Reply to Morné @ 10:51 pm:

    Whsat support for a multi racial society Morne? There is none…

  19. avatar Aldo says:
    April 22nd, 2013 at 9:38 am

    More, weren’t you the one saying we should support the Kings, no matter how they got their spot in superrugby? I seem to recall pearls of wisdom such as, It is not the players on the field’s fault, and a whole list of other reasons, such as they just want to play rugby.

    Hello, what has changed? These guys just want to play rugby, they do not care who they play against or who plays against them.

    Oh but lest we forget, we need to keep on apologising and living like sorry gits till kingdom come, because we had apartheid. Sorry, according to Trevor Manuel, that ship has sailed and I tend to agree with him. How long must we apologise for? I am sorry that my father and his father was part of the apartheid regime, Nelson Mandela became president when I was still in primary school, so ‘Ek sal nie langer jammer se nie!’. In a truely multi cultural society, a culture has the right to have their own ‘homeland’ where they govern themselves and are allowed to employ themselves etc, as part of the bigger country. So Orania’s right to exist and choose their team according to their rules are protected under the UN.

    It is a club, if a player excells and wants further honours, then he needs to play in multi cultural teams, that is a given, but for now allow them to play, as they only want to play rugby.

  20. avatar Aldo says:
    April 22nd, 2013 at 9:38 am

    Oops I meant Morne.

  21. avatar Morné says:
    April 22nd, 2013 at 10:53 am

    Reply to Timeo @ 2:19 am:

    No official quotas for Springboks & Super Rugby teams.

    Unless that changed since 2009 that I am not aware of.

    Reply to Aldo @ 9:38 am:

    No problem with folks ‘who just want to play rugby’, but if your policy for selections are along racial lines it is not acceptable.

  22. avatar Aldo says:
    April 22nd, 2013 at 12:02 pm

    Reply to Morné @ 10:53 am:

    and you really believe there will be no repurcutions (spelling?) if the Bulls push out an all white team this coming weekend? Or if Heyneke chooses an all white team? Ag come on, pull the other one. All teams in this country is picked on racial lines. I dont need policy to back me up on that, I have eyes and ears.

  23. avatar Morné says:
    April 22nd, 2013 at 12:09 pm

    Reply to Aldo @ 12:02 pm:

    They (Bulls and anyone else) has transformation targets in place and as with any organisation in South Africa have a responsibility to meet this. Transformation targets are also aligned for the INCLUSION of players (previously disadvantaged and excluded from participation) not conditions set out for the deliberate EXCLUSION of any individual on racial lines.

  24. avatar Aldo says:
    April 22nd, 2013 at 12:18 pm

    Inclusion based on being previously disadvataged? So the poor boy from the white squatter camp can be included because he is currently disadvantaged?

    Inclusion of one player based on race (okay for your sake, we’ll call it targets and background etc), at the expense of another, leads to exclusion of one player because of his lack of being previously diadvantaged. So I dont know, it sounds pretty much the same to me.

    I am not saying that all black players are only there as quotas, or even most of them for that matter, what I am saying is that the transformation targets does lead to exclusion of players based on race, so let these guys from Oranie play. As I said earlier, if they want to go anywhere further than oranie’s first team, they will play in integrated teams. So I cannot see the fuss.

  25. avatar Morné says:
    April 22nd, 2013 at 12:28 pm

    Reply to Aldo @ 12:18 pm:

    The purpose of transformation is to correct the deliberate exclusion of black and coloured players which did not only prevent them from playing the game in the past, but alienated them and future generations from the game.

    Go read the document (or articles posted on this site) on the transformation indaba held recently and its aims. The approach of a ‘numbers’ game is a thing of the past, efforts are now put in place to introduce, develop and grow the game in specific areas in the country.

  26. avatar Boertjie says:
    April 22nd, 2013 at 1:41 pm

    Reply to Morné @ 12:28 pm:

    Deviating a bit, but that is the exact reason
    why only 12 out of 26 SA Air Force Grippens are
    flying: Posts vacant, and the whites qualified
    to fly them were posted to fly cargo planes to
    get the “transformation” needed.
    So they went private.

    Nothing has changed from the old days. This is
    NOT why I voted YES in the referendum.

    And all the transformed sporting bodies are
    either bankrupt or in deep shit.
    Not to mention municipalities and everything else.

  27. avatar Morné says:
    April 22nd, 2013 at 2:07 pm

    Reply to Boertjie @ 1:41 pm:

    Don’t take my criticism of Orania selecting a team on racial principles (if that is their intention which I actually don’t think it is how I read this article) as any form of support for corrupt, unqualified, nepotist bullshit in corporate and government sectors.

    I mentioned before I don’t vote, never will, because I never saw a point of replacing one idiot with another.

    As with any system with good intention, it will only work if those implementing it has similar, good intentions and not abuse it which is the problem with transformation.

  28. avatar Timeo says:
    April 22nd, 2013 at 2:10 pm

    Reply to Morné @ 12:28 pm:

    So transformation is a race based policy that all teams are required to adhere to.

    For political reasons in SA, exclusion based on race is undesirable and inclusion based on race is desirable, but we should not be deluded about it, they are both racial policies and in the ideal situation, neither would be desirable.

  29. avatar Morné says:
    April 22nd, 2013 at 2:22 pm

    Reply to Timeo @ 2:10 pm:

    Is there a better policy to adopt currently given our past and Apartheid?

    How effective the policy will turn out to be will depend on those responsible for implementing it or it’s framework. THAT has been far from ideal if not a farce.

  30. avatar Aldo says:
    April 22nd, 2013 at 2:33 pm

    So I just want to make sure, you say that because of our past, it is fine to have a selection policy based on race one way, but because the other race now forms it’s own self governing part of SA, they are not allowed to pick on race?

    Cos that is what I read, no where did I say that proper transformation is not the right way to go, it what I have allways argued, we have strong enough players of all races to fill the teams if we bring young black talent through the ranks, and develop those black stars from grassroots level. But what I cannot understand, is your criticism of one team picking based on race, one small club team, where as you see no problem with big unions picking players because of race or spending more money to develop a young black player.

  31. avatar Morné says:
    April 22nd, 2013 at 2:40 pm

    Reply to Aldo @ 2:33 pm:

    I find it quite ironic that you have a huge problem with transformation (efforts to include those previously deliberately excluded) given we owe its very existence to what Orania is now again trying to do…

  32. avatar Aldo says:
    April 22nd, 2013 at 2:45 pm

    I find it quite ironic that your memory has gone for a piece of shyte Morne (joke). I have no problem with transformation Morne, need I remind you how many times I have argued for transformation on this site?

    I am a massive supporter of transformation, proper transformation, have allways been and will allways be. I am not argueing against transformation here Morne, rather trying to understand how you can be against the idea of orania because their team will be picked on race, but be for transformation, that also basically enforces decisions based on race.

  33. avatar Morné says:
    April 22nd, 2013 at 2:47 pm

    Reply to Aldo @ 2:33 pm:

    As for the second part of your post…

    Firstly you agree that proper transformation has its place (and ironically the transformation indaba and SARU’s new policy is just that, develop at grass-roots level) and then in the same breath you support the deliberate exclusion of players based on race in Orania?

    Transformation exists in the effort to fix the kak caused in the past, it is about INCLUSION of all South Africans regardless of race to restore the balance Apartheid work so hard for decades to destroy.

  34. avatar Morné says:
    April 22nd, 2013 at 2:49 pm

    Reply to Aldo @ 2:45 pm:

    But how can you not see efforts by Orania destroys any hope of proper transformation?

    Transformation is race based, of course it is. But its purpose is to correct imbalances created through Apartheid.

    What Orania is doing is re-instating those ideals that got us in this kak in the first place.

  35. avatar Aldo says:
    April 22nd, 2013 at 2:58 pm

    Jees Morne, that is a bit pessimistic buddy. They are doing what is protected in their right as a ‘volkstaat’, a right which is protected under the UN. They fall under the Griquas, if anyone wants to play in the griquas, they are not going ro enforce a white only policy on the Griquas, and they are playing against teams of all colours, so they are not going all out apartheid, they are going Afrikaneronly, only for their team, not the whole league.

  36. avatar Morné says:
    April 22nd, 2013 at 3:00 pm

    Hehe…

    From the article above:

    “Quintin Diederichs, uitvoerende hoof van die Rebelle, sê hulle speel rugby “as ’n Afrikanerspan, nie as ’n wit span nie. Orania is kultuurgedrewe, nie politiekgedrewe nie.”

    And from News24:

    “More black, coloured, and Indian South Africans speak Afrikaans at home than white South Africans, the SA Institute of Race Relations (SAIRR) said on Monday.”

    Orania rugby het groot kak! :lol:

  37. avatar Morné says:
    April 22nd, 2013 at 3:05 pm

    Reply to Aldo @ 2:58 pm:

    Hang on…

    So their ‘right’ as a Volkstaat to make race-based selections and deliberately exclude individuals based on race is okay?

    Tell me, what is the difference between a Volkstaat and the old Republic under Apartheid? Numbers?

  38. avatar Aldo says:
    April 22nd, 2013 at 3:19 pm

    Well Morne, a volkstaat is a small area where people from a specific culture are allowed to practise their beliefs and culture in a bigger country. They do not force those opinions onto others outside the small area given to them, as they do not govern the country. Im not to sure of all the facts, but what it comes down to is freedom to live in a small part of the country, under your own rules where race etc goes. Im not going to move there Morne, but I will die fighting for the right of those who do want to stay there.

    But it is not aimed at bringing back apartheid, or anything like that. The ANC government gace the people that wanted to go there the land they are allowed to have under the UN laws, allthough some say it is not the ‘volkstaat’ promised, I reckon the ANC did their part. It is now up to those staying there to make it work.

    What I do however feel is that they should be allowed to take part in sport etc in the rest of the country, as they represent a part of the country, just as their taxes goes to government and they take part in the election. Shees even Julius Malema visited them in the previous election to get votes and he mustve been successfull, as the ANC got 1% of the votes from orania.

  39. avatar Aldo says:
    April 22nd, 2013 at 3:21 pm

    And again, remember that Orania is a very small part of our country and that it is only at club level that this happens, not national or anything else. Hell if the xhosa people of this country does the same, Id be in this same topic defending their right to do it as part of their ‘volkstaat’.

  40. avatar Aldo says:
    April 22nd, 2013 at 3:26 pm

    But then if the Xhosa people were to do this, there wouldnt be such an outcry now, would there? As they do not have to spend the next millenium apologising for apartheid.

  41. avatar Morné says:
    April 22nd, 2013 at 3:34 pm

    Reply to Aldo @ 3:19 pm:

    And I will say again, I have no problem with them doing what they are doing. Just as I have no problem with anyone praying to whatever god they choose (or not even any).

    As long as those ideals and principles does not influence or compromise those on the outside.

    There are many all black and all coloured clubs in SA because of simple demographics or social aspects, none of them have official race-based selection policy however.

    If they (Orania) want go out an play with other kids though (Griquas rugby union clubs) they have to play by their rules (Griquas rugby union who signed the declaration on transformation earlier this year).

  42. avatar bryce_in_oz says:
    April 22nd, 2013 at 3:38 pm

    Sounds like something out of Deliverance…

  43. avatar Aldo says:
    April 22nd, 2013 at 3:39 pm

    They are going to play the other clubs from all demographics, so they never tried to influence any other teams. Other teams, even with only black players can play in Orania, they are just keeping their team an Afrikaner team. So I guess they are then doing excactly what you ask for and we should allow them this oppertunity.

    If racist incidents do occur, I am sur the Griquas will act accordingly. And that is me on the topic, said all I have to say. Was good to have the time for a bit of a debate on ruggaworld again. Havent done it is ages.

  44. avatar Morné says:
    April 22nd, 2013 at 3:40 pm

    I must run though – but I also think this topic has very little left to be said on.

  45. avatar Morné says:
    April 22nd, 2013 at 3:42 pm

    Reply to Aldo @ 3:39 pm:

    I think they make it clear through their statement that their team is Afrikaner – not necessarily white…

    So yes, there is no problem there.

    Bet your ass that moron from TARC will release a statement soon though.

  46. avatar Boertjie says:
    April 22nd, 2013 at 5:24 pm

    Reply to Morné @ 2:22 pm:

    Is there a better policy to adopt currently given our past and Apartheid?

    To have become a winning country the ANC should
    (1) have invested in quality education, not getting
    rid of qualified teachers because they are white
    (2) Not closed teaching colleges.
    (3) Not implemented OBE, which is a system that
    even failed in some top Western countries that
    DID have libraries, internet and educated parents.
    We are SECOND LAST in the WORLD in science and maths.
    :Rule 9:

    Adding to this they should have fast tracked blacks
    ON MERIT – even if that meant 10-15 years.

    But having said that I doubt if it would have worked.
    There is just too little work ethic amongst our blacks
    in general. And the attitude that the government owes
    them a living.
    Compare any ethnic black waiter to those of DRC,
    Zim etc. I see it every day.

    MORE money is being spent REPAIRING amenities
    than BUILDING them.

    I’ve lost count of the BILLIONS lost to corruption,
    handing out tenders to those with ‘contacts’, who
    then go bankrupt before completion of the project,
    or end up with poor quality at 3X the tendered fee.
    HOP houses are badly finished, starts leaking and
    cracking even before the first rains.

    We are also paying the financial price for firms
    that are forced to topload their executives with
    incompetent blacks. In the end this cost is passed
    down to the consumer.

    My apologies: This is not a politcal blog, but I
    just felt like parting with a few facts.

  47. avatar Morné says:
    April 22nd, 2013 at 5:53 pm

    Reply to Boertjie @ 5:24 pm:

    Like I said, those implementing this system is failing us and even those they are supposed to help.

  48. avatar Morné says:
    April 22nd, 2013 at 6:00 pm

    And this may not be a political blog, but it is a political issue.

    And like Aldo said – good to see some open debate again.

  49. avatar Cosa says:
    April 23rd, 2013 at 9:24 am

    You guys are so missing the point. Only reason why they have an “Afrikaans Only” selection policy is because they can’t speak the Queen’s English.

    So, is not speaking Anglaise a reason to slam them?

    TSK. Tsk.

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