Fourie on SARU’s wanted list

August 20, 2013
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SA Rugby

The South African Rugby Union (SARU) wants Jaque Fourie to again be available for Springbok selection.

A top-level source at SARU told the Cape Times that they are in discussions with Fourie’s Japanese club, Kobe Steelers, to release him for international duty.

It could be in time for the Boks’ Rugby Championship tour to Australasia, but a more realistic date may be the end-of-year tour to Europe.

“We are still negotiating (with his club for the tour of Australia and New Zealand), but things are a bit relaxed now because the guys are on tour,” the source revealed.

“Hopefully he can play on the end-of-year tour.”

Fourie, 30, signed a two-year deal with the Steelers last year and said at the time he would not be available to play for the Springboks during his time in Japan.

But SARU is hoping to lure him back the same way they did with scrumhalf Fourie du Preez, whose Japanese club, Suntory Sungoliath, agreed released him for the home games in the Rugby Championship.

The last of Fourie’s 69 Tests came in the 2011 Rugby World Cup quarter-final loss to Australia in Wellington, New Zealand.

Source: News24

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53 Comments

  1. avatar biltongbek says:
    August 20th, 2013 at 12:15 pm

    Oh FFS, leave the guy alone, he has moved on, lets build with our youngsters, WTF is it with Meyer and the old guard.

    We criticised the shit out of PDV for hanging on to the old guard now Meyer is going ballistic with overseas players.

  2. avatar LionsinPTA says:
    August 20th, 2013 at 12:32 pm

    Agreed. I was a huge JF fan, but since JJ Engelbrecht and Jan Serfontein came on the scene I’m more then happy to support them as JdV and JF combo again.

    They are the future and need to start playing together. They can become one of the all time great’s in Bok history.

  3. avatar Jacques(Bunny) says:
    August 20th, 2013 at 12:41 pm

    I would rather wait to hear from HM himself on things like this, maybe he wants a bit more backup in the backline, JF can play 15,14,13 and 12.

    We are reading to much I think into rumour’s at this stage

  4. avatar bryce_in_oz says:
    August 20th, 2013 at 12:55 pm

    Nothing wrong with him in the mix… particularly as injuries arise (hopefully not)…

    JDV and JJ starting to look good together… and Serfontein decent off the bench…

  5. avatar biltongbek says:
    August 20th, 2013 at 1:04 pm

    I suggest we start calling the Springboks, the BOkbarians from now on.

    We must just convince SARU that the players wear their club socks.

    We might not be the best in the world but, hell, we’l have supporters from everywhere. :whistling:

  6. avatar DavidS says:
    August 20th, 2013 at 1:08 pm

    Hmmm

    Exactly who do we have at 13 if JJ gets hurt…

    My suspicion is nobody…

    In any case… JF is so versatile he can play literally any position from 10-15… and in any case Biltongbek… as Fourie Du Preez proved… he may come back and hand you another STFU performance…

    Modern rugby has reached the point where HM has rightly realized that you MUST have a squad and your squad must go down to franchise level or your top players could get whacked out by the time internationals roll round get crocked… like Aus, us and NZ are presently learning as a result of too much rugby.

  7. avatar Jacques(Bunny) says:
    August 20th, 2013 at 1:14 pm

    @DavidS: My Feelings exactly, we need to have a group of the best 30 players in the world to be able to pull the Bok jersey over his head any given Saturday.

    If we can have world class players in each position with a backup for them, how can we go wrong.

    The other point is a guy like JJ have played the whole year Supershit and all Bok games so far, he is going to break down sometime or another and when it happen HM needs to have a world class player to replace him.

  8. avatar bryce_in_oz says:
    August 20th, 2013 at 1:21 pm

    @DavidS:

    We have a choice of JF or Ebersohn from overseas… no contest… otherwise JDJ or Sadie or well… I almost said Mapoe but who am I kidding…

  9. avatar biltongbek says:
    August 20th, 2013 at 1:25 pm

    You’re right, lets hang on to those guys for life.

    Let the next coach find talent.

  10. avatar Boertjie says:
    August 20th, 2013 at 1:42 pm

    BTW I believe JJ is viewed as a wing by the Bulls,
    who are surprised to see him at 13.
    Having said that, I firmly believe Basson is
    the one weak link in the backs.
    That leaves Serfontein to start at 13.

  11. avatar bryce_in_oz says:
    August 20th, 2013 at 2:05 pm

    @biltongbek:

    Haha come now mate… you’re being a tad Emo…

    Serfontein, JJ, Taute, Mapoe, Ebersohn to name but a few have all been involved HM’s Bok camps for evaluation on top of his form captain in that position and seniors like JDJ and Frans Steyn…

    Give the guy a break… I think he has assessed every half-decent centre in RSA and would not better than anyone else who is in form and who isn’t and which can get him results on top of building…

    He’s doing it the correct way… and guys like Serfontein and JJ are benefiting…

  12. avatar Methos The French Stormer says:
    August 20th, 2013 at 2:22 pm

    @biltongbek: But the new coach has found talent – in Engelbrecht and Serfontein. Now – if this comes off – they get to learn from the meister – and maybe, if this comes off – they force JF to raise his game even more.

    JW brought back Os and Percy. A great team has youth and expierience.

    Cheers

  13. avatar Boertjie says:
    August 20th, 2013 at 3:30 pm

    REFEREES ARE TO BLOW SKEW THROW-INS AS SUCH:

    1st offence: free kick
    2nd offence: penalty
    3rd offence: penalty plus warning
    4th offence: penalty plus yellow card
    5th offence: penalty plus red card.

  14. avatar biltongbek says:
    August 20th, 2013 at 3:50 pm

    Agree about youth and experience.

    That’s why I would have liked to see only one of Fourie du Preez and Ruan, Plus Piet van Zyl

    I know most of you don’t agree with me, and I don’t mind, we all have our own opinions.

    I just don’t like the idea of having all these overseas players, I really don’t care if it is tough for a while without them, I just believe our Boks must be represented by players we see playing every season, and some Barbarian put together squad of Boks from all over the world.

    But Hey, that is just me.

  15. avatar Methos The French Stormer says:
    August 20th, 2013 at 3:57 pm

    Ruan has never lived up to what was expected from him – partly because he was fooked around by coaches and partly because he didn’t stand up for himself and said “Listen – if I don’t play 9, I don’t play. Same thing is happening with Frans Steyn.

    JF always said that he is coming back to SA for the World Cup. The guy is getting enough to make sure he is comfortable after his career – the career of a professional sportsmen is very short – need to take the bucks when you can.

    Can almost guarentee you that Bekker will also be back for the WC.

    Cheers

  16. avatar Brendon says:
    August 20th, 2013 at 4:30 pm

    @biltongbek:

    you make some fair comments.

    Again if SARU centrally contracted players they could decide who gets to go earn money abroad and when. But Habana and these guys are in my opinion being treated with kid gloves and it sets a bad precedent moving forward.

  17. avatar biltongbek says:
    August 20th, 2013 at 4:45 pm

    @Methos The French Stormer: Well, then let’s wait for him to return, then if he proves himself, by all means let him be selected.

  18. avatar biltongbek says:
    August 20th, 2013 at 4:48 pm

    @Brendon: Brendon, I don’t mind that Habana is leaving, he served us well, had his 86 caps, and now before it is too late, he wants to experience other things.

    But that doesn’t mean he should be selected.

    You might think this is old school, but to me commitment is everything. We are sending the wrong message to our youngsters by saying to them you can play anywhere you want, you still have a chance.

    We have to protect our domestic rugby, and the only carrot we have is the Bok jersey, if we don’t even have that anymore as a carrot, then it becomes a free for all to poach our players and our Currie cup and super Rugby suffers because of it.

  19. avatar DavidS says:
    August 20th, 2013 at 11:29 pm

    @biltongbek:

    Ja but You is wrong…

    :>

  20. avatar biltongbek says:
    August 20th, 2013 at 11:34 pm

    @DavidS: in your eyes I is, but in my eyes I isn’t. :Boertjie normaal:

  21. avatar Timeo says:
    August 21st, 2013 at 1:23 am

    @biltongbek:

    There is an article in this week’s Economist magazine about football and big data, with an interesting side note that the average English Premier League club spends 70% of their revenues on player salaries.

    http://www.economist.com/news/britain/21583711-worlds-richest-football-league-embracing-big-data-ball-watching

    Imagine if SA rugby did that. Reportedly their revenues are around R700m. 70% of that is R490m. If 50% of that is allocated to the 30 top SA players, the average Bok salary will be R8.17m. Some differentiation inside the Bok camp itself is reasonable. The top 10 Boks could be earning around R10m p.a. whilst playing in SA.

    Point is.
    There is no need to be old school and use the Bok jersey to extort the players for peanuts. Pay them, their market value and all the top SA players will play in SA.

  22. avatar bryce_in_oz says:
    August 21st, 2013 at 5:00 am

    @Timeo:

    Extremely ‘pie-in-the-sky’ mate… albeit great in theory.

    However you’re assuming that they have 35% of that total revenue (if the figure is correct I can’t find total revenues anywhere) to spare as it is… or that they have the means to correctly govern it if as per miracle they did?

    In short after paying off the Super sides, 15 contracted Boks, maintaining an ailing Vodacom Cup and Currie Cup on top of that… and god knows what other holes they have along the way (like EP rugby et al)… they simply do not.

    Their net profit after tax for year end 2012 was a mere R2.34m which was an 87% drop from year end 2011 which was R18.55m…

    With that in hand… and let’s for arguments sake say the current 15 contracted Boks get an average of R8.17m (which I very much doubt)… where are they going to get the rest of the 120.51m from to enable your plan?

  23. avatar bryce_in_oz says:
    August 21st, 2013 at 5:02 am

    @bryce_in_oz:

    That’s R120.51m needed…

  24. avatar Mug Punters Organisation of South Africa says:
    August 21st, 2013 at 5:39 am

    Good player but they should invest and show confidence in the future and we have good back 13′s

    Like FDP nice little package and no away games is crap. Where is the consistency and what does this tell the youngsters?

    The coach cant gush about young stars and all our talent but still select these part timers. Yes playing 15 mins local and no away games is part time.

    He is sending a very bad message to players and creating the precedent which other player will follow.

    HM is not god and needs to think about the precedent he is creating in the player commitment attitude.

  25. avatar Craven says:
    August 21st, 2013 at 7:46 am

    One of my concerns with this is that SA rugby will not end by 2015, building a squad with 2007 world cup winners means they will not be around after 2015, what then? Then the next Bok coach (if not Heyneke) will have to start from scratch anyway. Not investing in young guys now will just postpone the inevitable. I am all for a mix of experience and youth, but not at the cost of brilliant young players’ development.

    Imagine if Heyneke’s next targets are Bakkies and Danie Rossouw, this will mean less gametime for the likes of Eben and a guy like Siya will drop of the bench completely. How can that be good for the future of Bok rugby? These guys chose to move on, Jacque Fourie was very clear when he moved to Japan that he will be unavailable for Bok selection while he is in Japan, honour the man’s request, why go begging him to come back? When he finishes his stint in Japan and decides to declare himslef available for selection again, then maybe pick him if he is still the best in that position.

  26. avatar biltongbek says:
    August 21st, 2013 at 8:12 am

    @Craven: My concern exactly. What happens next?

  27. avatar bryce_in_oz says:
    August 21st, 2013 at 9:46 am

    @Craven:
    @biltongbek:

    Oh come on boys… take one look at the average age of the last 45 players HM has included in or capped during his squads… it’s around 25-26… they’ll be in their prime in two years!!!

    Nobody is punting Danie Roussouw or Victor Matfield other than Mark Keohane and Bakkies wouldn’t get a look in unless there were 5 odd injuries!

    You assume any of the oldies would even start a game… Fourie Du Preez did not… guys like Eben already are!

    Heyneke is doing everything right… building a team of youngsters along with the experience of players still the best in their position…

    That my friends is playing the best 22 every weekend whilst also having the future in mind come RWC time.

    Some will just moan about anything… :Rule 9:

  28. avatar bryce_in_oz says:
    August 21st, 2013 at 9:51 am

    @bryce_in_oz:

    Found the fin statements on SA Rugby sight… total revenue was $689m… net profits decreased by 87%… executive council’s bonus’/wages increased by 100plus%… :Boertjie GOM:

  29. avatar bryce_in_oz says:
    August 21st, 2013 at 10:24 am

    @bryce_in_oz:

    Yep!

    Team that took to the field last weekend…

    @bryce_in_oz:

    15. Willie Roux,24
    14. Bjorn Basson,26
    13. JJ Engelbrecht,24
    12. Jean de Villiers,32
    11. Bryan Habana,30
    10. Morne Steyn,29
    9. Ruan Pienaar,29
    8. Duane Vermeulen,27
    7. Willem Alberts,29
    6. Francois Louw,27
    5. Juandre Kruger,27
    4. Eben Etzebeth,21
    3. Jannie du Plessis,30
    2. Adriaan Strauss,27
    1. Tendai Mtawarira,28

    Replacements:
    16. Bismarck du Plessis,29
    17. Guthro Steenkamp,32
    18. Coenie Oosthuizen,24
    19. Flip van der Merwe,28
    20. Siya Kolisi,22
    21. Fourie du Preez,31
    22. Patrick Lambie,22
    23. Jan Serfontein,20

    Average age 26!

  30. avatar Methos The French Stormer says:
    August 21st, 2013 at 10:51 am

    Well then it’s official – I’m older than anybody in the Springbok setup… Old age has finally arrived…

    Cheers

  31. avatar bryce_in_oz says:
    August 21st, 2013 at 11:00 am

    @Methos The French Stormer:

    Haha… you’re still younger than what Ackerman was before his call-up… there’s hope yet mate…

  32. avatar Timeo says:
    August 21st, 2013 at 12:55 pm

    @bryce_in_oz:

    I know it’s pie in the sky, but it’s not because of a lack of money. It’s how the money is being proportioned out.

  33. avatar bryce_in_oz says:
    August 21st, 2013 at 1:11 pm

    @Timeo:

    Perhaps if they operate with zero equity and get rid of the Vodacom Cup… they wouldn’t even be half the way there… and the situation will get worse if NZAR call their bluff with Super rugby…

    But nope… imo there is not near enough money for them to get near the figure you’re talking about (or even half of that)…

  34. avatar Boertjie says:
    August 21st, 2013 at 1:31 pm

    Any chance of big sponsors stepping in to
    sponsor individuals?
    They can then wear the logos of Pick n Pay etc.
    where the Springbok is.

  35. avatar biltongbek says:
    August 21st, 2013 at 1:38 pm

    @Boertjie: No need to remove the BOk, just put the sponsorship on their club socks they will be wearing. :whistling:

  36. avatar Boertjie says:
    August 21st, 2013 at 2:08 pm

    @biltongbek:

    I was only :soek:
    Unfortunately there are still many who
    don’t accept the Bok.
    Screw them.
    BTW The u.21′s in their WC had no Bok to be
    seen anywhere on the jersey.

  37. avatar biltongbek says:
    August 21st, 2013 at 2:27 pm

    @Boertjie: Maybe we should change it to another bok.

    A Kudu, the horns are more impressive and we can still call them the boks.

  38. avatar bryce_in_oz says:
    August 21st, 2013 at 2:35 pm

    @Timeo:

    Actually Timeo it didn’t dawn on me earlier… R8m average is far too much simply for a Bok contract (considering some in that 30 will be greenhorns, some political appointments etc) on top of having to stay and play and earn in S15… half of that is still decent when considering what some of the big names earn OS (without Super money)… so there is a notion to rework the figures we posted above…

    I cannot remember what the ‘avg’ (they never report them in earnest) Bok contract was worth… it was far far less than the above though even with win bonus’…

  39. avatar bryce_in_oz says:
    August 21st, 2013 at 2:45 pm

    @bryce_in_oz:

    http://mg.co.za/article/2012-06-02-saru-tackles-springbok-slump-with-r576m-boost

    There you go Timeo… they’re already permitted to contract up to 30 players… but there is only R57.6m to spread around (and that was before their 87% profit slump)…

    That will need to be tripled at the min under for what you propose to be a real incentive to stay…

  40. avatar Methos The French Stormer says:
    August 21st, 2013 at 3:15 pm

    @bryce_in_oz: They need to hurry up though – because now I qualify for France as well… So I think it would be judicious if HM called me up and capped me before I sweared allegiance to another country.

    I will give him till friday next week. That way Juandre Kruger, Habana, Morne Steyn and me can get a group discount for our flights.

    The ball is in your court Mr Meyer. Please contact the site admin for my contact details…

    Cheers

  41. avatar DavidS says:
    August 21st, 2013 at 8:47 pm

    @bryce_in_oz:

    Plenty of stupid from the Cape as is the norm…

    ps –

    Given the advertising revenue drawn by the SA part of SANZAR, it is in fact SA that needs to call the Aus/Kiwi bluff… without SA NZAR collapses… hmmm what worth is there for Investec to stay in NZAR if they do not get exposure to their top market?

    No my friend… NZAR’s idea of cutting the Boks is even more pie in the sky than the SARU idea of joining NH rugby…

  42. avatar bryce_in_oz says:
    August 22nd, 2013 at 3:26 am

    @DavidS:

    Other way around… SARU threatening to cut off NZAR…

    Anyway… I agree with Timeo above contracting the top 30 in the land with decent wages (on top of Super/CC), in a sliding scale of talent/potential/experience… and not choosing OS players for the Boks…

    It’s just finding the money in light of the figures from last year’s Fin reports…

    I would add though… if a player is needed and heading off OS (guys like Habana)… he can still be chosen in that year if he’s played rep rugby that season (particularly in a RWC year)…

  43. avatar bryce_in_oz says:
    August 22nd, 2013 at 4:22 am

    Dawie Investec are there as they want to tap into the lucrative Aus (to a lesser degree NZ) baby-boomer market. Australian retiree’s and investor market is one of the largest in the world with their disposable income but that’s another story…

    Back to how to keep Boks in RSA…

    Timeo read the ARU fin statements… extremely transparent with regards to revenues earned and where expenditure goes…

    Some interesting facts (some like SARU’s criminal 104% increase in exec bonus’ when there was 87% decrease in net profit a total mirror)

    - Massive deficit of R80m odd, and the same increase in ‘corporate’ expenditure over the period up 95% since 2010(although BIL tour brings them way back into the green in 2013)
    - Total revenue was just under R1bil which is 24% more than NZ
    - 27% of that revenue is spent on players
    - Super Rugby accounts for less than 30% of total revenue… tests are the huge earners

    http://activemagazine.smedia.com.au/activemagazine/arudemo2012/

    Branching off again… one thing evident is that less Super rugby and more tests makes an NZAR Super rugby split a big reality…

  44. avatar Timeo says:
    August 22nd, 2013 at 1:10 pm

    @bryce_in_oz:

    I’m not talking about Bok contracts. I’m talking about the amount of money a Bok player should earn whilst playing in SA.

    SR + Tests + a little CC.

    Much of the money in SA rugby are generated at the Unions, so it will take a combined effort by SARU and the Unions to direct a larger percentage 50-70% of total rugby (not SARU) revenues towards the top SA players. By top SA players, I mean, the players that plays in the games that generate virtually all the money in the first place.
    ie. Tests, SR and the big CC games.

    You have around 150 players that should be paid with 50-70% of the total revenues generated. Inside those 150, you need a very steep curve. The top 10 salaries should be many multiples of the bottom 10. The rest of rugby will be self funded. Like a lottery, it is fuelled by the outsize rewards of the few.

  45. avatar bryce_in_oz says:
    August 22nd, 2013 at 1:59 pm

    @Timeo:

    I must have misunderstood because you definitely started by talking about ‘contracted’ Boks being increased as well as ‘paying them what they are worth’ within a global scale (and by they you’d have to mean the top players… because VC and CC players are getting exactly what they are currently worth if they’re not good enough for Super rugby (or any other top international team)…

    This model is a whole other ball game… you’ll never get the unions working like this with the mother-ship (and vice-versa)… and the database and effort needed to grade it would be impossible…

    It’s not even working successfully in Australia with zero CC and VC for a much smaller amount of ‘top’ players to manage by a pretty damn savvy bunch…

    When you look at the total revenues from SANZAR unions that I posted on another thread and the amount they currently attribute to paying players ie % of revenue and net profits… Aus the highest in both by far… their % of total rev being 27%…

    It’s entirely laughable that any of them would get near to using 50-70% for wages… never ever going to happen in a million years… it’s simply not fiscally possible…

    Sorry mate… but the only way SARU would get close to achieving similar is by concentrating on increasing ‘their’ contracted top players and ‘their’ pay structures…

  46. avatar bryce_in_oz says:
    August 22nd, 2013 at 2:07 pm

    The more I read into the separate SANZAR union’s finances, particularly with revenue, expenditure and length of season in mind… the more I’m buying that RSA should go it’s own way for a Super comp (the downside there is no decent competition available)… and NZAR should go their own way and play their own Trans Tasman comp with much shorter/cheaper travel distances, more tests (where the real money currently is) less player fatigue…

  47. avatar bryce_in_oz says:
    August 22nd, 2013 at 2:15 pm

    @bryce_in_oz:

    Or alternatively give in and let Morne’s option run it’s cause… i.e. let everyone play where they want whether at home or not… and let the Bok coach choose from wherever he wants…

    Apocalypse for RSA rugby IMO…

  48. avatar Timeo says:
    August 22nd, 2013 at 3:05 pm

    @bryce_in_oz:

    I always said SA rugby (not SARU) and referred to the top Boks’ salaries whilst playing in SA (not just in Tests).

    In all the USA pro-leagues, about 60% of all revenues goes towards player salaries. In English PL soccer, the average club is at 70% and some clubs are at 90%.

    Rugby will be the same way sooner than you think. That is the players will consume 50-70% of the total revenues of the rugby economy they play in. Whether that rugby economy is in the EU or in SA is the only outstanding question.

  49. avatar bryce_in_oz says:
    August 22nd, 2013 at 3:08 pm

    @Timeo:

    I refer to SARU as SA Rugby and vice-versa when reading their annual reports…

  50. avatar bryce_in_oz says:
    August 22nd, 2013 at 3:33 pm

    @Timeo:

    I lazily mean SA Rugby when I say SARU and similar with NZAR and NZRU/ARU in all of the above…

    As for using say the EPL football and their 70% eg… look at their geograpghy of where they play, who they play, their demographics from grass-roots and up they have to expend upon… and then their broadcasting revenue…

    It’s simply not the same ball-game… never will be…

    Wallabies who earn the most revenue and expend the most on players (27%) are cutting down on that… and that’s with the BIL windfall coming through…

    I don’t think we’ll ever see close to 40% of revenue being expended on players… it’s just not cricket…

  51. avatar Timeo says:
    August 22nd, 2013 at 4:34 pm

    @bryce_in_oz:

    One has to be careful. There is a lot of money in SA rugby that never passes through SARU. The ARU’s and NZRU’s books probably represent a much larger ratio of the total rugby economies over there than SARU’s does in SA.

  52. avatar bryce_in_oz says:
    August 22nd, 2013 at 4:46 pm

    @Timeo:

    How so?

    I’ve been using SA Rugby’s Annual Reports which seem to contain all information pertaining to revenue and outgoings from test, to grass-roots to women’s rugby?

    What am I missing?

    You mean like business contributing to big names in Aus as with the Force/Rebels/Folau as a few examples?

  53. avatar DavidS says:
    September 7th, 2013 at 8:43 am

    That and of course the individual sponsorships players get and the cash from SARPA

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