Is dit hoe ‘n droomjaar lyk?

November 24, 2013
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BOKKIE GERBER takes a hard and critical look at the Springboks of 2013. Text in Afrikaans.

Bokkie Gerber, ex-sports editor of Rapport

Ons het die jaar as nr. 2 begin en eindig die jaar as nr. 2. ’n Droomjaar?

Ons was veronderstel om ’n swak Wallaby-span te dril, Argentinië te rol, Wallis te klop, ’n vrot Skotse span te verneder en oorheersing teen die Franse te wys. Dís wat die All Blacks doen. Dís wat die Springbokke behoort te doen.

Die Bokke het voor gisteraand se toets teen Frankryk 12 van hul laaste 14 toetse gewen. Die All Blacks staan op 33 van hul laaste 34 en (voor vandag se wedstryd teen Ierland) 13 uit 13 vir die kalenderjaar.

Vroeër vanjaar was Brisbane ’n grênd hoera vir die Bokke en hul juigkommando, toe nugterheid meer gepas sou gewees het. Só was dit ook nou ná seges oor Wallis en Skotland.

Was Heyneke-hulle rêrig so bang om teen die Skotte te verloor, soos die glipsie wat Peter de Villiers oorgekom het, dat ons met die spankeuse en spelpatroon kleinkoppie getrek het om enige waagmoed te wys?

Kan die Skotte ons so bang maak dat ons hulle nie net met ons krag-voorspelers wil buig nie, maar breek óók? Daarom kies ons vir Bakkies bo Pieter-Steph du Toit. Trouens, g’n enkele soomkant-speler in die Bokgroep kry toe ’n kans om die beroemde Murrayfield te betree nie, uit vrees dat die Skotte nog ’n Dawid op ons sal trek soos in 2011. En wat van ’n ruskans vir Willem Alberts en Jean de Villiers? Of sou dit te riskant gewees het om die Skotte aan te vat sonder hulle?

En vir die juigkommando wil ek sê: sagter, kêrels.

Twee rolmaal-lynstane het ons twee drieë besorg. Voorspelbaar, maar briljant uitgevoer. Individuele briljantheid het ons nog twee drieë besorg. Uit gebroke spel, ná Skotse foute en danksy Willie le Roux.

In die periode tussen die eerste twee drieë en die derde en vierde het daar feitlik niks aangegaan nie. Vir ’n kwartier het die Bokke 90% se balbesit gehad. 90% in Skotland se kwartgebied gespeel. Die Skotte het in daardie stadium iets soos 90% meer gelak en 50 duikslae uitgevoer. Ons maar net 9 of so.

Tog het Fourie du Preez klokslag die bal na ’n voorspeler as die eerste ontvanger gevoer. Oor en oor – met die mega-lywe van Alberts, Van der Merwe, Vermeulen en Botha wat die Skotte terug moes laat deins. Hulle hét, maar Skotland het tog ook hierdie eendimensionele en voorspelbare aanslae met groot sukses afgeweer.

My punt is dat die Bokke nie moet span kies of moet speel met die vrees vir verloor nie. Skep vrees en wees gevrees. En wen toetse wat rêrig saak maak.

Ná als, wat positiefs het ons van Jaque Fourie te siene gekry? Voor gisteraand se toets het hy nie die bal gesien nie en ons niks van sy vernuftigheid gewys nie.

Bakkies lyk soos ’n speler op pensioen, JP was oukei en Fourie du Preez het my laat wonder of hy nie so nou en dan ’n bevlieging kan kry om iets meer skeppend aan te vang nie, al skiet Heyneke ’n koronêr.

Nou ja, Louis Schreuder is op toer as die derde skrumskakel, maar Heyneke ontbied Jano Vermaak as plaasvervanger, met Fourie wat ander verpligtinge het. Het sy verpligtinge (glo te make met sy klub in Japan) onverwags opgeduik? Of het Heyneke voor die toer geweet, en nou’s die wip vir hom gestel omdat hy Schreuder sonder veel van ’n getuigskrif gekies het?

Heyneke se passie vir Zane Kirchner het só verflou dat die heelagter nie in enige van die 22-talle was nie. En Zane het maatjies in Gio Aplon, Jan Serfontein, Johan Goosen, Schreuder en Scarra Ntubeni. Ook die Blou Bul-vaskop Frik Kirsten is nou Bok à la Faan Conradie – ’n Bok met ’n baadjie in die kas sonder dat hy op die veld was.

Sommige van Heyneke se keuses maak min sin of is aanvegbaar met die oog op die toekoms – en met die verwagting dat die Bokke onder hom teen 2015 die volledige pakket sal wees.

Of gaan hierdie span die one trick pony bly? Als spiere, maar g’n breins nie?

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104 Comments

  1. avatar Jacques(Bunny) says:
    November 24th, 2013 at 1:54 pm

    Weet jy wat Bokkie Gerber:” GAAN KAK”

  2. avatar Boertjie says:
    November 24th, 2013 at 2:08 pm

    Comes from the same old school.
    Therefore I’m very much in agreement
    with what he says.
    Pardon the old geezers – we tend to have a more
    critical look at things.

  3. avatar Duiwel says:
    November 24th, 2013 at 2:26 pm

    Hah!
    brilliant !

    Bunny,

    Daniel Gerber ken meer van rugby
    en sekerlik Bok rugby
    in sy poeppol hare
    As wat jy in jou eie leeftyd
    Sal bemeester.

    Miskien val hy nie in jou juigbende
    wat soos groupies en ja broers
    vergeet het wat ware Bok rugby is.

    Ek stem nie met him saam oor Bakkies nie
    Maar sien sy punt.
    Ek dink persoonlik dat FDP ons beste opsie is
    en dat as hy kritiek het
    dit moet uit brei en n oplossing voorstel

    Ongelukkig het hy nie die hele span
    en seisoen ontleed nie.

    Maar ons vrees vir Wallis,Scotland en Ierland
    spreek boekdele van ons eendimensionele
    Spelplan
    En ons onbevoegte agterlyn.
    Ek sluit WlR en BH daar uit .

    Ons het n goeie seisoen op papier
    en kan daarmee vorentoe gaan
    maar is geensins
    naby aan die AB nie.

    soos wat hulle. Duidelik were hierdie seisoen
    Soos die vorigstes
    Aan ons newsy het.

  4. avatar Duiwel says:
    November 24th, 2013 at 2:52 pm

    Miertjie ,
    If my outside centers primary role
    was to hold the oppo up
    hoping for a turnover.
    Or
    Waving my right hand calling others to the defence
    (Then on at least 4 occasions)
    when the ball goes the other way
    JF would be the answer.

    But
    The centres’ main role is to provide space for the players outside them.
    They need to run good lines(run into spaces or at 90degrees to their opposition),
    be able to side step and swerve,
    have good passing skills and should be able to offload in a tackle.
    When the ball is moved along the opposition backline,
    the centres are the first players to make the tackle.
    They need to be aggressive tacklers to knock their opponent down and
    seize the ball
    and be good at organising the defensive lines.

    Unfortunately
    Our centre pair are merely able to manage the last sentence
    and do so mediocrely .
    Dont get brainwashed Boet

    - See more at: http://www.ruggaworld.com/2013/11/24/boks-tired-but-triumphant/#sthash.vQa3QpYx.dpuf

  5. avatar Duiwel says:
    November 24th, 2013 at 3:01 pm

    Nick Mallet:
    “Meyer has done very well in his first two years, in particular beating Australia home and away. The only deficit is zero out of four against New Zealand. South Africa have thrown everything at the All Blacks, and had it thrown back at them. We have to beat them at home at least twice before the 2015 tournament so that we know that on a neutral venue we have a chance.”

  6. avatar Duiwel says:
    November 24th, 2013 at 3:02 pm

    Nick Mallet:
    He continues, “We also have to recognise that the referee’s call on the Fourie Du Preez try made a big difference. At 17-15 it didn’t matter how much physically superior South Africa were, had a penalty been awarded to Wales for Jaque Fourie being offside, it could have been different. Leigh Halfpenny is a bloody good kicker, and instead of 24-15 to South Africa it could have been 18-17 to Wales. South Africa have to learn not to let teams back in.”

  7. avatar Craven says:
    November 24th, 2013 at 3:07 pm

    Uhm, really? After years dotted with losses against Scotland, France and Australia in Australia (and even at home!), we right all these wrongs in one year. This is a process, Heyneke is on a journey with this team and no-one is saying we have arrived at the destination yet.

    It is, however, much better than the drivel we’ve seen at times the past few years, so I have to agree with Jacques on this one.

  8. avatar Duiwel says:
    November 24th, 2013 at 3:25 pm

    No one denies that this year
    especially this last match for me
    has not been good.

    However
    Like our record against the AB show
    we are hardly there yet
    By a long shot.
    The fact that Dan Carter in all his games
    has NEVER lost against the Bokke
    is a blatant underlining of the gap.

    We are in front ,by a six point margin average
    of the pack consisting of
    England france. And Aus (in a terrible year)
    But light years away from NZ

  9. avatar Duiwel says:
    November 24th, 2013 at 3:42 pm

    Details[1] Played Won by New Zealand Won by South Africa Drawn New Zealand points South Africa points
    In New Zealand 40 29 9 2 806 551
    In South Africa 45 19 25 1
    14 September 2013 Eden Park, Auckland New Zealand 29 – 15 South Africa 2013 Rugby Championship New Zealand
    5 October 2013 Ellis Park Stadium, Johannesburg South Africa 27 – 38 New Zealand New Zealand
    Results[edit]

    Date Venue Score Victor Comments
    5 October 2013 Ellis Park Stadium, Johannesburg 27 – 38 New Zealand 2013 Rugby Championship
    14 September 2013 Eden Park, Auckland 29 – 15 New Zealand
    6 October 2012 FNB Stadium, Johannesburg 16 – 32 New Zealand 2012 Rugby Championship
    15 September 2012 Forsyth Barr Stadium, Dunedin 21 – 11 New Zealand
    20 August 2011 Nelson Mandela Bay Stadium, Port Elizabeth 18 – 5 South Africa 2011 Tri Nations Series
    30 July 2011 Westpac Stadium, Wellington 40 – 7 New Zealand
    21 August 2010 FNB Stadium, Johannesburg 22 – 29 New Zealand 2010 Tri Nations Series
    17 July 2010 Westpac Stadium, Wellington 31 – 17 New Zealand
    10 July 2010 Eden Park, Auckland 32 – 12 New Zealand
    12 September 2009 Waikato Stadium, Hamilton 29 – 32 South Africa 2009 Tri Nations Series
    1 August 2009 ABSA Stadium, Durban 31 – 19 South Africa
    25 July 2009 Vodacom Park, Bloemfontein 28 – 19 South Africa
    16 August 2008 Newlands, Cape Town 0 – 19 New Zealand 2008 Tri Nations Series
    12 July 2008 Carisbrook, Dunedin 28 – 30 South Africa
    5 July 2008 Westpac Stadium, Wellington 19 – 8 New Zealand
    14 July 2007 Jade Stadium, Christchurch 33 – 6 New Zealand 2007 Tri Nations Series
    23 June 2007 ABSA Stadium, Durban 21 – 26 New Zealand
    2 September 2006 Royal Bafokeng Stadium, Rustenburg 21 – 20 South Africa 2006 Tri Nations Series
    26 August 2006 Loftus Versfeld, Pretoria 26 – 45 New Zealand
    22 July 2006 Westpac Stadium, Wellington 35 – 17 New Zealand
    27 August 2005 Carisbrook, Dunedin 31 – 27 New Zealand 2005 Tri Nations Series
    6 August 2005 Newlands, Cape Town 22 – 16 South Africa
    14 August 2004 Ellis Park, Johannesburg 40 – 26 South Africa 2004 Tri Nations Series
    24 July 2004 Jade Stadium, Christchurch 23 – 21 New Zealand
    9 November 2003 Telstra Dome, Melbourne 29 – 9 New Zealand 2003 Rugby World Cup
    9 August 2003 Carisbrook, Dunedin 19 – 11 New Zealand 2003 Tri Nations Series
    19 July 2003 Loftus Versfeld, Pretoria 16 – 52 New Zealand
    10 August 2002 Kings Park Stadium, Durban 23 – 30 New Zealand 2002 Tri Nations Series
    20 July 2002 WestpacTrust Stadium, Wellington 41 – 20 New Zealand
    25 August 2001 Eden Park, Auckland 26 – 15 New Zealand 2001 Tri Nations Series
    21 July 2001 Newlands, Cape Town 3 – 12 New Zealand
    19 August 2000 Ellis Park, Johannesburg 46 – 40 South Africa 2000 Tri Nations Series
    22 July 2000 Jade Stadium, Christchurch 25 – 12 New Zealand
    4 November 1999 Millennium Stadium, Cardiff 22 – 18 South Africa 1999 Rugby World Cup
    7 August 1999 Loftus Versfeld, Pretoria 18 – 34 New Zealand 1999 Tri Nations Series
    10 July 1999 Carisbrook, Dunedin 28 – 0 New Zealand
    15 August 1998 Kings Park Stadium, Durban 24 – 23 South Africa 1998 Tri Nations Series
    25 July 1998 Athletic Park, Wellington 3 – 13 South Africa
    9 August 1997 Eden Park, Auckland 55 – 35 New Zealand 1997 Tri Nations Series
    19 July 1997 Ellis Park, Johannesburg 32 – 35 New Zealand
    31 August 1996 Ellis Park, Johannesburg 32 – 22 South Africa 1996 New Zealand rugby union tour of South Africa
    24 August 1996 Loftus Versfeld, Pretoria 26 – 33 New Zealand
    17 August 1996 Kings Park Stadium, Durban 19 – 23 New Zealand
    10 August 1996 Newlands, Cape Town 18 – 29 New Zealand 1996 Tri Nations Series
    20 July 1996 Lancaster Park, Christchurch 15 – 11 New Zealand
    24 June 1995 Ellis Park, Johannesburg 15 – 12 South Africa 1995 Rugby World Cup Final
    6 August 1994 Eden Park, Auckland 18 – 18 draw 1994 South Africa rugby union tour of New Zealand
    23 July 1994 Athletic Park, Wellington 13 – 9 New Zealand
    9 July 1994 Carisbrook, Dunedin 22 – 14 New Zealand
    15 August 1992 Ellis Park, Johannesburg 24 – 27 New Zealand
    12 September 1981 Eden Park, Auckland 25 – 22 New Zealand 1981 South Africa rugby union tour of New Zealand
    29 August 1981 Athletic Park, Wellington 12 – 24 South Africa
    15 August 1981 Lancaster Park, Christchurch 14 – 9 New Zealand
    18 September 1976 Ellis Park, Johannesburg 15 – 14 South Africa 1976 New Zealand rugby union tour of South Africa
    4 September 1976 Newlands, Cape Town 15 – 10 South Africa
    14 August 1976 Free State Stadium, Bloemfontein 9 – 15 New Zealand
    24 July 1976 Kings Park Stadium, Durban 16 – 7 South Africa
    12 September 1970 Ellis Park, Johannesburg 20 – 17 South Africa 1970 New Zealand rugby union tour of South Africa
    29 August 1970 Boet Erasmus Stadium, Port Elizabeth 14 – 3 South Africa
    8 August 1970 Newlands, Cape Town 8 – 9 New Zealand
    25 July 1970 Loftus Versfeld, Pretoria 17 – 6 South Africa
    18 September 1965 Eden Park, Auckland 20 – 3 New Zealand 1965 South Africa rugby union tour of Australia and New Zealand
    4 September 1965 Lancaster Park, Christchurch 16 – 19 South Africa
    21 August 1965 Carisbrook, Dunedin 13 – 0 New Zealand
    31 July 1965 Athletic Park, Wellington 6 – 3 New Zealand
    27 August 1960 Boet Erasmus Stadium, Port Elizabeth 8 – 3 South Africa 1960 New Zealand rugby union tour of South Africa
    13 August 1960 Free State Stadium, Bloemfontein 11 – 11 draw
    23 July 1960 Newlands, Cape Town 3 – 11 New Zealand
    25 June 1960 Ellis Park, Johannesburg 13 – 0 South Africa
    1 September 1956 Eden Park, Auckland 11 – 5 New Zealand 1956 South Africa rugby union tour of Australia and New Zealand
    18 August 1956 Lancaster Park, Christchurch 17 – 10 New Zealand
    4 August 1956 Athletic Park, Wellington 3 – 8 South Africa
    14 July 1956 Carisbrook, Dunedin 10 – 6 New Zealand
    17 September 1949 Crusader Ground, Port Elizabeth 11 – 8 South Africa 1949 New Zealand rugby union tour of South Africa
    3 September 1949 Kingsmead, Durban 9 – 3 South Africa
    13 August 1949 Ellis Park, Johannesburg 12 – 6 South Africa
    16 July 1949 Newlands, Cape Town 15 – 11 South Africa
    25 September 1937 Eden Park, Auckland 6 – 17 South Africa 1937 South Africa rugby union tour to Australasia
    4 September 1937 Lancaster Park, Christchurch 6 – 13 South Africa
    14 August 1937 Athletic Park, Wellington 13 – 7 New Zealand
    1 September 1928 Newlands, Cape Town 5 – 13 New Zealand 1928 New Zealand rugby union tour of South Africa
    18 August 1928 Crusader Ground, Port Elizabeth 11 – 6 South Africa
    21 July 1928 Ellis Park, Johannesburg 6 – 7 New Zealand
    30 June 1928 Kingsmead, Durban 17 – 0 South Africa
    17 September 1921 Athletic Park, Wellington 0 – 0 draw 1921 South Africa rugby union tour of Australia and New Zealand
    21 August 1921 Eden Park, Auckland 5 – 9 South Africa
    13 August 1921 Carisbrook, Dunedin 13 – 5 New Zealand

  10. avatar Duiwel says:
    November 24th, 2013 at 3:43 pm

    Take a good look Bunny
    See all the losses?
    that’s what we need to change to be no 1
    Simple.
    Not blame the ref.
    Play a 15 man game of rugby

  11. avatar Christo (Vetgesmeerde Blits) says:
    November 24th, 2013 at 3:56 pm

    Ek stem nie met alles wat Gerber se saam nie, maar stem heeltemal saam dat die juigkommando moet sagter. Deesdae lyk dit of niemand meer toegelaat om ‘n opinie teenstrydig met Heyneke se afrigtingstyl te he nie, of hulle word deur die juigkommando getakel.

  12. avatar Christo (Vetgesmeerde Blits) says:
    November 24th, 2013 at 4:12 pm

    ‘n Droomjaar buite ‘n Wereldbeker jaar beteken om die Tri-Nations/Rugby Championship te wen. Voor dit gebeur kan daar nie van ‘n droomjaar praat nie. Jake White en Pieter de Villiers het dit albei binne hulle eerste 2 jare as Bok afrigters reggekry. Om die reeks teen Aus en Nz te wen moet elke jaar ons maatstaf wees. Dit beteken niks om met ons wen statistieke te spog as ons 3 keer in een jaar teen Skotland, 1 teen Samoa en 2 teen Argentinie gespeel het nie.

    Dit beteken egter hoegenaamd nie dat ek nie in Heyneke as afrigter glo nie. Hy doen baie goeie werk en ek glo ons is op die regte pad onder hom, die span is reeds baie moeilik om geklop te word, maar ‘n droomjaar was dit nie.

  13. avatar Duiwel says:
    November 24th, 2013 at 4:54 pm

    The Irish in the first half
    Have played more running rugby than
    HM Bokke in a whole season.

    Without harping on about their physical pack
    or hyping them selfs up
    Grootkop
    Just let tje game talk.

    They play sharp ,precise,tecnically skilled at speed,
    Within the rulea(yellow card )
    without the Bakkies kisses blown
    15 MANRUGBY

    LOOK at the Scoreboard MEYER
    GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF the ONLY Bulle WAY!
    LOOK!
    15 man mooi rugby.
    Even if the lose the game
    THATS RUGBY!!!!l

  14. avatar Christo (Vetgesmeerde Blits) says:
    November 24th, 2013 at 5:54 pm

    Absolutely heartbreaking for Ireland. They should have won this game, they stopped playing rugby in the second half trying to defend that lead.

  15. avatar Duiwel says:
    November 24th, 2013 at 5:59 pm

    Heyneke Meyer and all the Ja Broers on this site

    Look at the amount of knock on s by the Irish-minimal
    look at their passion-without grootbek
    Look at their handskills and defence.
    Loook at their complete rugby.

    Even if they Lost
    They played clean beautiful rugby
    I salute them.

    Don’t constantly dish up hyped up shit by the Bokke
    and call it rugby.

    Today is saw a real professional rugby players
    A back line and forwards play with passion,skill
    At speed,
    Refereed well,
    And the greatest game of rugby this season.

  16. avatar Boertjie says:
    November 24th, 2013 at 6:09 pm

    @Duiwel:

    So much more enjoyable opposed to what was
    dished out last night.
    Talk about commitment!
    ABs 24 OIRISH 22
    Winning score from their own 22, 1’30 into extra time.
    Hats off to the Kiwis as well.
    We can’t play like either these two teams.
    Fact.

  17. avatar Duiwel says:
    November 24th, 2013 at 6:11 pm

    As for Ruaan pienaar,Morne Steyn,pat Lambie,
    jean de villiers and Jaque fourie

    LOOK at THE GAME -Twice!!!!

    And tell me
    why if your handskills are so piss poor?

    Why do you constantly forget to catch the ball?

    Why cant you find space at speed

    Why are you in your position if you cant even do that?

    Enough bulshit!

    Get on it
    Or get that Jersey off your back
    And give it to someone who can

  18. avatar Duiwel says:
    November 24th, 2013 at 6:16 pm

    Oudste-
    Amazing game.

    The AB in the first half look shell shocked
    but in fairness
    Came back from that deficit and won.

    Very little Foul play ala Bokke with the constant
    Macho tough guy niggle and yellow cards.

    ruaan pienaar and his excuses Os making me mal
    And Lambie
    Pis of klim van die pot af.

    As for our pathetic prehistoric centre pair……

  19. avatar Craven says:
    November 24th, 2013 at 8:50 pm

    Boertjie and Duiwel, is this awesome Ireland team not the same one that lost, badly, to Australia? An AU’s teams beaten by the Books twice this year. One game does not make you an awesome team. And NZ still won the game even with all the Irish awesomeness.

  20. avatar Boertjie says:
    November 24th, 2013 at 9:12 pm

    @Craven:

    The play both teams dished up today is awesome.
    Better than I’ve seen from the Boks in the last
    15 years.

  21. avatar Duiwel says:
    November 24th, 2013 at 9:18 pm

    Craven,
    It’s beyond teams
    It’s about rugby
    How it should be played
    You wont get it
    Neither will HM
    Neither will our back line
    Which is a shame
    Cause our forwards with a back line at their backs
    Could play this way
    Get the petty niggle kak out
    Coach it out
    Coach like that
    Play the game

    I am privilidged to have watched those men play

  22. avatar Duiwel says:
    November 24th, 2013 at 9:19 pm

    Toppie,
    15 years is about right.
    What a game.

  23. avatar Boertjie says:
    November 24th, 2013 at 10:31 pm

    @Duiwel:

    OK, 16 years. But unlike today, it was played
    by one team only.

  24. avatar Aldo says:
    November 25th, 2013 at 7:22 am

    So let me get this right oom Boer and duiwel, as long as we look pretty doing it and are marginally competative against the AB’s, we can lose all our games, get hammered by Aus and be a great team? Well that just takes all the pressure of Heyneke doesnt it?

  25. avatar Craven says:
    November 25th, 2013 at 7:42 am

    @Duiwel:

    JIp, you are right, I won’t get it. If what would satisfy you more than anything else is a performance like the one dished up by the Irish this weekend, but still lose and now have two losses against Australia and NZ, you are right, I won’t get it.

    I prefer my team to actually win some games every now and then.

  26. avatar Boertjie says:
    November 25th, 2013 at 8:56 am

    @Aldo:

    No – if we can play like the Irish did, we’ll beat
    the All Blacks because we have much more talent.

  27. avatar Husamarine says:
    November 25th, 2013 at 9:12 am

    Reading this crap I just had to log in. Was planning on going on a lengthy tirade, but stuff it…….there is just no pleasing some people.

    Maybe, it just makes you look more knowledgeable if you can continuously identify negatives and criticise (see there, I have identified so many things wrong with the team that I must be smarter than everyone else…….). Hell, nobody, not even the coach is under impression that everything is perfect. But dammit, we have cemented our postion as second best in the world, identified a core group of great players and it is blindingly obvious for everyone to see that there is a definite, structured plan towards becoming the best (not a haphazard, random, poke in the dark kind of approach).

    Hell, we have won every game in the NH over the past two years, beaten Australia comprehensively and…….no wait Heyneke should have waved his magic wand and overnight we should have become the best, absolute indestructable, fantastic team that we never were……. Try some reality!

    Geez, life must be a blast being such sour arses?

    Maybe next year if Heyneke (or any other coach for that matter) selects and develops 23 players that can walk on water, correctly pick the weekly lotto numbers, turn water into beer and beat each team with at least a 50 point margin SA rugby fans might find a reason to smile????

    Nah, who am I kidding……

  28. avatar Jacques(Bunny) says:
    November 25th, 2013 at 9:25 am

    @Boertjie: It was the first time in almost two years they played like this and they will struggle again come 6 Nations. One off game because they played against the AB.

  29. avatar Jacques(Bunny) says:
    November 25th, 2013 at 9:28 am

    This is typical South African “kla gat” oor alles attitude that we usually gets from supporters.

    Go and read the stats of this team for the past year and two and se with whom they compare and they had a definite upward curve this year.

  30. avatar Boertjie says:
    November 25th, 2013 at 9:29 am

    HM has admitted he can’t beat the ABs on his
    own.
    To do that, he needs help from the other coaches
    re conditioning and a national playing style.
    And our tactical kicking is far behind, he says.

  31. avatar Jacques(Bunny) says:
    November 25th, 2013 at 9:30 am

    In any other country with the stats and the upward curve the Boks showed this year, supporters will be pleased. FFS, England do lap of honours when the lose a close game.

    It is one thing to be critical it is a total other thing to be just plain stupid in your reasoning like the article from Bokkie Gerber. Does he know how to read stats and win ratio?

  32. avatar Jacques(Bunny) says:
    November 25th, 2013 at 9:32 am

    @Boertjie: Oom nobody disagree that we need to go still some way to beat the AB on a regular base, but to say this year was not good enough and that we are useless is unfair.

    We are far ahead of any other team except the AB and we showed improvement this year from last and we will show more next year.

  33. avatar Morné says:
    November 25th, 2013 at 10:35 am

    If the Boks had to win a game in injury time against the Irish supporters would have wanted Heyneke’s head on a platter. But we praise the All Blacks?

    I can only laugh.

  34. avatar Jacques(Bunny) says:
    November 25th, 2013 at 10:37 am

    @Morné: It is getting ridiculous Morne, I just refuse to get involve in senseless conversations anymore

  35. avatar Aldo says:
    November 25th, 2013 at 11:18 am

    True Morne, the Bok supporters wouldve wanted Heyneke, the captain and half the squad to be hanged in town square. Yet we glorify teams who come close but lose.

    We have not lost a game on our end of year tours for 2 years now, we have made Australia our bunnies, we have only to beat the All Blacks, which I am sure we will do given our upward curve.

    Yet as Bok supporters, we will never be happy untill we do a silly dance before each game and start playing in Black and tattoo every possible space on our forearms face etc. Before we look like the All Blacks, play like the All Blacks and fart like the All Blacks, no Bok supporter will ever seem to be happy.

    Ja lets run, and lose all our games because it looks pretty from the side. Winning rugby draws fans to the game, not pretty losers. Think the All Blacks woul have as many fans as they do, if they lost? Please, pull the other one.

    Let us put this in perspective, we havent won in France for 16 years, we did over the weekend. We have beaten Australia in Australia for quite a while, we did this year. See an upward pattern yet? Or in typical SA fan mentality, we’ll just not see the improvements and rather see if we can complain a whole and sound smart, as someone else allready mentioned.

  36. avatar JT_BOKBEFOK! says:
    November 25th, 2013 at 11:19 am

    How long did HM need to get the Bulls to the top of the S15? Give the guy time – 12/14 is bloody good IMO.

  37. avatar JT_BOKBEFOK! says:
    November 25th, 2013 at 11:21 am

    HM can’t beat the AB’s?? – ok then bring back PdV – he beat them more than any other SA coach in the modern era ;-)

    :soek:

  38. avatar Morné says:
    November 25th, 2013 at 12:00 pm

    @JT_BOKBEFOK!:

    Hehe.

  39. avatar Boertjie says:
    November 25th, 2013 at 12:02 pm

    @Aldo:

    We don’t have to play like the ABs, silly.
    If we play like the Irish did on Sunday and beat them
    I will be happy.

    BTW we have 109,000 registered senior players.
    Irish have 25,000
    NZL 27,000.
    OZmob 40,000
    POMS 166,000
    Frogs 110,000
    Kilts 11,000
    Wales 22,000

  40. avatar JT_BOKBEFOK! says:
    November 25th, 2013 at 12:12 pm

    @Boertjie:

    And Japan have more than us – what does that tell you?

  41. avatar Morné says:
    November 25th, 2013 at 12:16 pm

    AB’s average score this year is 32-17 scoring 3.6 tries per match (and that included games against Japan and 3 games against those useless Aussies as Bokkie Gerber puts it)

    Boks average score this year is 33-16 scoring 3.9 tries per match.

    Fire Heyneke immediately, clearly he has no clue.

  42. avatar Boertjie says:
    November 25th, 2013 at 12:34 pm

    @JT_BOKBEFOK!:

    Japan has 53,000.

  43. avatar JT_BOKBEFOK! says:
    November 25th, 2013 at 12:35 pm

    @Morné:

    hehehe
    :mrgreen:

  44. avatar Boertjie says:
    November 25th, 2013 at 12:37 pm

    @Morné:

    I back Heyneke all the way – we’re just not good enough yet.
    See the other thread and you may agree what the reasons are.
    Add central contracting and managing players to the list.

    In the mean time I won’t be part of the mob thinking this
    was a dream year.

  45. avatar JT_BOKBEFOK! says:
    November 25th, 2013 at 12:40 pm

    When we finally start a year as #1 and finish that year as #1 the Bok supports will bitch because the Bokke are not going anywhere :bangheadt:

  46. avatar Morné says:
    November 25th, 2013 at 12:46 pm

    @Boertjie:

    The first person to say we are not where we want to be is Heyneke himself. No-one is denying there is still a lot left to be done and the mission for 2014 is as clear as daylight as Heyneke himself said – we need a plan to get on par and beyond the All Blacks.

  47. avatar JT_BOKBEFOK! says:
    November 25th, 2013 at 12:52 pm

    @Morné:

    attack the breakdown like the Irish did on Sunday – Pressure, pressure and some more pressure!

  48. avatar Morné says:
    November 25th, 2013 at 1:29 pm

    @JT_BOKBEFOK!:

    We also need to be tactically better, our option taking is still not up to standard, and fitness and player fatigue remains the biggest concern.

  49. avatar Deon says:
    November 25th, 2013 at 1:33 pm

    I think we should blame the baby boomers.

  50. avatar Deon says:
    November 25th, 2013 at 1:49 pm

    Is dit n droom jaar? I guess it comes down to what you see as a dream. Martin Luther King also had a dream.

    I am pretty sure though that it wasnt a nightmare. That was the Wobbly destiny. :evil: Deservedly so.

  51. avatar JT_BOKBEFOK! says:
    November 25th, 2013 at 2:23 pm

    @Morné:

    agree on that – :Dawie: our fitness is a concern but the easiest to remedy!

  52. avatar Craven says:
    November 25th, 2013 at 3:02 pm

    Our competing for balls in the air could also use a fine tune, I feel.

  53. avatar Brendon says:
    November 25th, 2013 at 3:18 pm

    I think what Gerber alludes to here, and why this article is refreshing, is this new wave of media bullying us fans are exposed to. The media decided Meyer is their darling and now no-one is allowed to question or critique anything.

    Its unbalanced reporting, just like the anti-snor brigade tried to snuff out any positives from that coach.

    I am very concerned that the Boks still do not need their backline as a form of attack off set plays. Our best ball simply goes to big lumbering forwards who smash it up with no variation or creativity at all.

    But Heyneke sees nothing wrong with selecting backline players whose core strength is defense – signalling that he never intends to use the backline as a means of attack anyway.

    I am glad we are winning games because it shows there is belief. But I am not inspired by these boks at all as I do not get a huge thrill out of seeing brekers smash into each other. Neither am I entertained by forwards using every single ball to just set up another phase.

    For a nation as talented as South Africa to resort to this low risk power game is in my opinion a cop-out. Calling it ‘the south african way’ is an affront to my history and my love of the game. If this is the only rugby we can play to win, then I cannot buy in. I am sorry.

    I look at this last year and ask myself this: if you remove Willie Le Roux, how different would 2013 be to 2012? My answer is ‘very little’.

    I am sick of hearing that we are ‘brutal’ and ‘big’ and ‘strong’ and ‘aggresive’ and all that. We can be so much more but we choose not to be. We choose to just win games and come hell or high water what the fans thinks.

    If I ask for my centre to make a flick offload every once in a while I am accused of wanting us to be Oz or Kiwi. If I get tired of seeing phase after phase being set up by forwards who in every phase cannot be bothered to see the space outside of them, then I am accused of not appreciating what SA rugby is about?

    Our problem is we are so deseperate to beat New Zealand. Why cant wer just aspire to be the best in the world in every fascet of play, as opposed to milking every maul and scrum for that penalty so our kicker can convert and win games so we can feel good about being nr 2 without ever really playing any rugby?

    The fact that the SA media has pulled a laager around Meyer and a no-critique zone makes me dislike the Boks even more.

    I want to be inspired by rugby, and when members of the SA public are unhappy about the way we play I reckon they feel the same way. Its not just about winning is it?

  54. avatar Boertjie says:
    November 25th, 2013 at 4:26 pm

    @JT_BOKBEFOK!:
    [47]
    Exactly.

    @Morné:

    [48]
    Exactly. That’s also what HM says.
    How about some original ideas?

    @Brendon:
    [53]
    :applause:
    I cannot state it better. The rest of you:
    Go and read it.
    On what do you differ?

  55. avatar DavidS says:
    November 25th, 2013 at 4:45 pm

    I find it bizarre that when the media congratulates the coach on a year that has seen us cement #2 spot losing ONLY to the #1 side in the year and winning 14/16 games is “laagering” around the coach… surely one does not look upon a season like the one past and go hysterically anti the coaching staff and team for being failures. Surely one does look at a second consecutive season where our side was by far the best side playing in the Northern Hemisphere (we beat both top 5N sides in the tour convincingly) and unbeaten. We beat France in Paris for the first time since 1997. We beat Australia by a record score away from home – a feat deemed virtually impossible under most previous coaches save in 2009 – our defence was so tight we were going at less than one try a game. We scored almost four tries on average per match – a feat Brendon himself would have poopoohed as impossible for this dumb aggressive brutal physical side full of Dutchman and Dutchman wannabes. However this season is an improvement on the previous season which is an HM hallmark. It strikes me to be inanity on a par with your about face when the All Blacks confidently predicted their world domination this year whereas when the Boks were confident going into their away game against New Zealand they were called “diktril”… i.e. it’s okay if New Zealand are confident but when we are it is “diktril”… I must admit that from my perspective what I am seeing is someone with a deepset inferiority complex about South African rugby but to make it the worst it is effectively and overwrought and somewhat bizarre misplaced inferiority complex.

    Bulls S12 2004 – 2007 as an example

    2004 nowhere
    2005 away semi losers
    2006 away semi losers
    2007 winners
    See a pattern there?

    Brendon I am going to underline this last paragraph of yours yet again with the monniker I have attached before…

    IT IS ONLY ABOUT WINNING

    You have so bought into the self delusional idea that Springbok rugby is somehow stupid or ugly or loser rugby that no amount of corrective assistance, even a friendly attempt to correct mistakes, will serve no purposes.

    The Boks are not weak against the All Blacks because they cannot play All Black rugby… they are weak against the All Blacks because they are not playing proper Bok rugby.

  56. avatar Aldo says:
    November 25th, 2013 at 5:03 pm

    Faaaaark me, are you guys not reading anything? You are so obsessed with having a go at the coach, whether he wins games or not, that you will find any reason available. If we win, it is because we win ugly. South Africans are a bunch of sour fool it would seem to me.

    No one, not a single reporter I have read, has even once called this a dream year. What everyone has said is that the Boks have come a long way in the last 2 seasons, denying that is stupid. Yes we are still behind nz, I see Heyneke stating that same fact, I see the media stating the same fact. So where are all these accusations of us staring us blind into a dream year? Crasy people.

  57. avatar Brendon says:
    November 25th, 2013 at 5:27 pm

    I am not having a go at the coach. He is doing what every coach have done in the last 10 years.

    Pragmatism, control, planning.

    God forbid the Boks do anything that might risk us winning!

    Maybe it is the fans fault for never giving flamboyant ideas, such as Viljoens ‘no kicking’ strategy a chance. My problem is I loved Viljoens approach and was willing to give it time, while the rugby majority in SA just wants to see a winning score?

    Either way I am happy watching Oz because it makes me enjoy the game. I love how in the shit they are and how they then try to run themselves out of shit and often failing. Much like the Cheetahs! I also enjoy how clever smaller nations like Ireland have to be to compete. The fact that they got closer to beating the kiwis than we do despite our playing numbers, says an awful lot more about us than it does them.

    Its the holidays. Lets relax.

  58. avatar Boertjie says:
    November 25th, 2013 at 5:40 pm

    BRENDON:

    Ek het aan ‘n vriend gestuur wat self ‘n rygbyskrywer was.
    Sy reaksie:

    Al wat ek sê is dat niemand kan beweer ons speel net tienmanrugby nie. Ons het die afgelope paar weke uitstekende negemanrugby ook gespeel.

    Die ou kan na my vleisbraaiery toe kom. Solank hy net sy eie drinkgoed saambring. Hy praat sense. Sal graag met hom wil gesels.

  59. avatar Morné says:
    November 25th, 2013 at 5:48 pm

    @Boertjie:

    If you want entertainment, go catch a Justin Bieber concert. I want a team that wins and we are doing that much better in 2013 than we did in the last 16 years.

  60. avatar Boertjie says:
    November 25th, 2013 at 5:48 pm

    @Brendon:

    The fact that they got closer to beating the kiwis than we do despite our playing numbers, says an awful lot more about us than it does them.

    Good point.

    ALDO (EN DIE RES) LEES STADIG:

    No one is against HM – he is doing the best he can and
    has reaped the rewards. Yes, he did not claim a dream year.
    He pointed out what is missing.
    Will the other coaches and SARU listen?
    Methinks not.
    THAT is the problem with SA rugby.

    Elke haan wil op sy eie mishoop koning kraai.

    Mallett was over to present the jerseys. I truly
    hope there was time for him and HM to chat.
    Maybe the Sharks will buy in.

  61. avatar Morné says:
    November 25th, 2013 at 5:54 pm

    @Morné:

    Sorry my last comment was in reference to your last question in your previous post at 54

  62. avatar Morné says:
    November 25th, 2013 at 5:55 pm

    @Boertjie:

    Jake White the new Sharks DOR buy in?

  63. avatar DavidS says:
    November 25th, 2013 at 5:57 pm

    I feel like digging my eyes out with a spoon to pick my brains out so I can be stupid enough to liaise on the same level as certain posters…

  64. avatar Boertjie says:
    November 25th, 2013 at 5:57 pm

    @Morné:

    Kak. We won the TN in 2009.
    And we beat the ABs 31-19, 28-19 and 32-29.

    I have nothing against HMs game plans etc. but I
    lament the lack of execution. And as he pointed out
    our tacitical kicking (apart from Willie) is poor.
    Just about all his kicks put the defence under big
    pressure. And our rucks all still far from being on
    par with what I saw on Sunday. Ditto our handling
    skills, not to even mention flip passes and offloads.

    When last did you see the line breaks and continuity
    you saw yesterday from BOTH teams?
    Against the Frogs there was but ONE example -
    around 59 minutes.

  65. avatar Boertjie says:
    November 25th, 2013 at 6:00 pm

    @DavidS:

    Jirre Dawie – ons is almal op dieselfde bladsy:
    Goeie jaar, maar BAIE ruimte vir verbetering.
    En HM het die ander spul se hulp nodig – hy het
    self so gesê.
    Lees [64].

  66. avatar Brendon says:
    November 25th, 2013 at 6:05 pm

    @Morné:

    But Morne the Stormers also today win rugby games more than they lose. the problem is, like the Boks, they will never win the big ones because they are just too limited in playing style.

    I am not forced to support the Stormers, but I kind of feel compelled to support my country – yet this is just a rugby philosophy I find hard to agree with.

    Even if we do beat the Kiwis next year we wont be world leaders for years on end playing this way. In fact our own players will break before the opponent does because we make everything a physical battle – believing its our only strength?

    What irks me about the media is not a celebration about winning. Its our lack of in-depth critique at nuanced factors. For example Vermeulen and Louw etc are now hyped up left right and centre, yet not one of our loose trio are dynamic in attack. All 3 literally just make contact and dies with ball in hand. In my mind they are not great attacking players, and therefore only 50%.

    Of course in the Bok blueprint they mean an awful lot and they create pressure, but without players to capitalize on that pressure we are just a team of endless phases and cycles.

    Yet no-one is asking these questions. I read the player scores of multiple writers every week and its the same story: this and that backline player ‘had little or no chance with the ball’ but did well with limited opportunties. This while the forwards are always hailed for heroic aggression and pressure?

    So i ask you, what is the point of having these bruisers, if our backline still get ‘limited opportunities’ because we refuse to use them on attack?

    Do we just build pressure for the sake of it? Is our entire winning model based on field position which will allow a 3 pointer to be scored? And if so, is this really Bok rugby?

    You can see in the body position of our players come line-out time that we dont really use the maul to win field and create space for a fast player to score under the posts. We literally just walk on the hope that some law will come into play which will see the opposition penalized so Morne can pull the tee up.

    Dude I get that this works for us. The result speak for themselves. But this is not the game I love. It simply is not.

  67. avatar Boertjie says:
    November 25th, 2013 at 6:26 pm

    @Brendon:

    :applause:

    Add to that our absolute predictability.
    Unless Willie makes a bit of magic.

  68. avatar Morné says:
    November 25th, 2013 at 6:41 pm

    @Boertjie:

    Won the 3N in 2009 but only managed a 66% overall win record in that year.

    We broke the AB line 19 times at Ellis Park, they only managed 7.

    @Brendon:

    The entire AB game plan is based on field position. I cannot believe you cannot see this or realise this. They kick more, they just execute kicks better so in essence your argument is not about running rugby, it is about better executing the territorial game in order for us to score more tries.

    The Boks averaged 3.9 tries per match this season, the AB’s 3.6 – we have a better average score per game than them. But I guess the tries are not pretty enough for you lot.

  69. avatar Brendon says:
    November 25th, 2013 at 7:05 pm

    Too right Morne. I did not grow up on a diet of video highlights of the boks scoring off mauls and intercepts. In fact, take our maul tries away and what have we left?

  70. avatar Christo (Vetgesmeerde Blits) says:
    November 25th, 2013 at 7:10 pm

    The Boks had a very good year, the results speak for themselves, but this was not yet a great year as many would like us believe.

    The notion of only looking at the win loss ratio at the end of the season I’d flawed. If the teams the Boks played, and the form of the teams we played are not taken into acount the statistics will never tell the whole story. The Boks played Scotland 3 times, Argentina twice and Samoa once. Australia’s RC team was their worst in many years, ans France had a nightmare season. On the flip side this All Black is a great one, and Wales had a great year(although the Boks have only lost against them once)
    2004, 2007 and 2009 were better seasons imo because we won the Tri Nations and WC, meaning we beat the best. The Rugby Championship is where we should mesuare our progress(the way Heyneke Meyer and the team tried to get 4 tries to win the RC suggest they value they want the title desperately). The away victory against Aus showed a lot of promise, but was unfortunately cancelled out by our home defeat to the All Blacks.

    I am a satisfied Bok supporter, and feel this was a good year. But a lot of improvement is needed before we have a great season. And without the RC title their can be no great season.

  71. avatar Christo (Vetgesmeerde Blits) says:
    November 25th, 2013 at 7:19 pm

    @Morné: “Won the 3N in 2009 but only managed a 66% overall win record in that year”
    I will take the Tri Nations title over a better win loss ratio any day. Beating the All Blacks 3 times in 2009 is a much bigger achievement then anything we managed this year. A simplistic view at the years win loss ratio doesn’t tell the whole story. If that was the case the Stormers would have a Superrugby title by now.

  72. avatar Boertjie says:
    November 25th, 2013 at 7:27 pm

    @Christo (Vetgesmeerde Blits):

    ans France had a nightmare season,

    Exactly. And we squeezed a 9 point win.
    At least we can say Wales was the 6N champs.
    The Wobblies are also the worst they were in
    many a year.
    Point: Look wider than plain stats.

    As I mentioned elsewhere:
    Frogs 1997: Tiple Crown and Grand Slam.
    We fooked them 52-10 (seven tries).

  73. avatar Morné says:
    November 25th, 2013 at 7:40 pm

    @Christo (Vetgesmeerde Blits):

    You will take the 3N title over a superior win record? Well then we will never be #1 in the world.

    @Boertjie:

    All Blacks ‘squeezed’ a 7 point win over France in France against our 9 points. AB’s played France 4 times in 2013 during their ‘nightmare’ season. They played Oz 3 times during their worst season in recent memory, we only played them twice. Then also add Japan and the ‘wider plain stats’ does make for interesting reading.

    The only team we played ranked outside the top 10 this year was Italy, who are an established 6N team.

  74. avatar Morné says:
    November 25th, 2013 at 7:42 pm

    @Christo (Vetgesmeerde Blits):

    The Rugby Championship or 3N is not won through play-off’s, its won through highest points on the log – if it applied in Super Rugby, Stormers would have won the title. Silly argument.

  75. avatar Christo (Vetgesmeerde Blits) says:
    November 25th, 2013 at 7:49 pm

    @Morné: Without winning the Rugby Championship, which means beating the All Blacks we will never be nr 1. The only way we will become number 1 is by beating the All Blacks consistently, because very few teams other than ourselves will.

  76. avatar Christo (Vetgesmeerde Blits) says:
    November 25th, 2013 at 7:53 pm

    @Morné: Not as silly as you implying the Boks were better this year than in 2009.

  77. avatar DavidS says:
    November 25th, 2013 at 8:00 pm

    Last year we played the perfect gameplan and beat England… a week later they smashed New Zealand… but then we had detractors saying “don’t read anything into it”

  78. avatar Christo (Vetgesmeerde Blits) says:
    November 25th, 2013 at 8:01 pm

    @Morné: By the way, South Africa had the nr 1 ranking between July and November in 2009.

  79. avatar Boertjie says:
    November 25th, 2013 at 8:08 pm

    Guys – I’m so glad I posted this thread.
    Really.
    No other site carries so many informed
    and healthy debates backed up by various
    stats etc.

  80. avatar Christo (Vetgesmeerde Blits) says:
    November 25th, 2013 at 8:09 pm

    @DavidS: It does show us that the All Blacks are beatable. It looks teams have a mental block against the All Blacks. Ireland could not believe they were beating the All Blacks and fell to pieces in the last 15 minutes.

  81. avatar Boertjie says:
    November 25th, 2013 at 8:23 pm

    @Morné:

    The fact that we won by 2 more than the ABs
    is a useless argument.
    You know that.

    @Christo (Vetgesmeerde Blits):

    I was sitting all the time hoping they would apply
    a few chips just to alter their attack and put the
    ABs under pressure. They did try it 3 times late in
    the game, with quite some success.
    Pity they lost posession in minute 79. They were well
    on their way playing it out.
    I hope HM and the Boks see this match.

  82. avatar Boertjie says:
    November 25th, 2013 at 8:24 pm

    BTW did anyone keep score of the Irish
    line breaks?

  83. avatar Morné says:
    November 25th, 2013 at 9:19 pm

    @Christo (Vetgesmeerde Blits):

    We were #3 in 2004 after we won the 3N. We were number one in 2007 and we lost against the All Blacks twice. I’ll say it again, silly argument.

    As much as we believe the AB’s are the team to beat, make no mistake, they think the same about us. They had the wood over us in 2013, but 2014 is a year that will define us and them.

  84. avatar Morné says:
    November 25th, 2013 at 9:22 pm

    @Boertjie:

    Yup, guys on here are a cut above any site I visit daily, and I visit quite a number of them.

  85. avatar Boertjie says:
    November 25th, 2013 at 9:27 pm

    @Morné:

    Does that also apply to Dawie?
    :pot:

  86. avatar Morné says:
    November 25th, 2013 at 9:41 pm

    @Boertjie:

    Let’s ask him if he knows the difference between a loosehead prop and a tighthead prop first. If he passes that test, then we move onto the tighthead and loosehead lock and sees if he knows the numbers and the roles of each! I reckon if he gets that he has passed higher grade RuggaWorld :twisted:

  87. avatar Boertjie says:
    November 25th, 2013 at 10:09 pm

    @Morné:

    Why start it so difficult?
    Why not start with scrumhalf and flyhalf?
    :twisted:

  88. avatar Morné says:
    November 25th, 2013 at 10:23 pm

    @Boertjie:

    That is lower grade RW. Even Aldo knows that. :pot:

  89. avatar Morné says:
    November 25th, 2013 at 10:25 pm

    I am off gents, long day tomorrow trying to help Super Rugby teams to catch and pass and make line breaks. Wish me luck, it seems from the posts I have no hope in hell. :weed:

  90. avatar Timeo says:
    November 25th, 2013 at 10:26 pm

    I find it ironic that some of the same guys who hated our kick-and-charge game-plan of 2009 will now hold it up as a standard.

  91. avatar Boertjie says:
    November 25th, 2013 at 10:49 pm

    @Timeo:

    All teams apply that with different degrees
    of success.
    A kick is only as good as the resulting
    pressure.
    Non-chaseable down the middle kicks a la
    Steyn is quite useless.
    I see Mallett wants to play Lambie solely
    at 10. Maybe he learns, because as yet he
    is not very convincing.
    Goosen seems made for injuries. Pollard
    looked quite mediocre in a weak Bulls team.

  92. avatar Christo (Vetgesmeerde Blits) says:
    November 25th, 2013 at 10:57 pm

    @Morné: Did you forget that the Boks won the WC in 2007? That was the reason we were no 1, any other year losing twice to the All Blacks would have killed our chances.

    The ranking system only started middle 2003, there was no way the Boks would have made up enough ground by 2004 to make up for the early exit at the 2003 WC and terrible season.

    Looking at the bigger picture who do you think had the best season? The 2013 or 2009 Springboks? By bigger picture I meen not just looking at the win loss ratio but also taking into account for instance that the first 3 tests in 2009 was against thr BI Lions while the first 3 tests in 2013 was against Scotland and Samoa. Then the one no one wants to talk about, the 3 wins in 2009 against the All Blacks vs the 0 against them in 2013.

    It’s useless(or silly) to through raw stats around if you are not willing to interperate them.

    Otherwise thank you for an interresting debate.

  93. avatar Duiwel says:
    November 26th, 2013 at 12:24 am

    Ja.
    Stats.
    4
    Nil
    Hmmmmm
    Hard one that,lemme buzzword them.
    They’ll believe in the buzz
    as opposed to their own eyes that our centre pair
    are clueless as to attack.
    They have no hands,no fkn basic qualities of an international centre
    Except
    Calling the others over
    And bumping into the oppo
    Our 10 …well i have more chance of Bens ballas talking
    than him running into space and offloading.
    Our 9 is restrained from retiring even though he is great
    and our back up 9
    Jissus boet,
    Talk about fkn lomp.

  94. avatar Duiwel says:
    November 26th, 2013 at 12:26 am

    Look at the last time the AB lost
    Take into account that we have more talent
    And then imagine we can do anything
    More that bosh and kick.
    Maybe we can try passing at speed
    After we learnt how to actually not from it

  95. avatar Duiwel says:
    November 26th, 2013 at 12:29 am

    Hah!
    Miertjie ,maybe beeste kan fly.

  96. avatar Craven says:
    November 26th, 2013 at 7:25 am

    @Christo (Vetgesmeerde Blits):

    “Then the one no one wants to talk about, the 3 wins in 2009 against the All Blacks vs the 0 against them in 2013″

    And yet we lost against Australia in Australia (2013 Boks won), lost against France in France (2013 Boks won) and lost against Ireland and Lions.

    Again, if the only reason for the Boks to exist is to beat the ABs and we are supposed to be satisfied with losing against Australia, France and Ireland, count me out of your vision for the Boks’ future.

  97. avatar Christo (Vetgesmeerde Blits) says:
    November 26th, 2013 at 8:42 am

    @Craven: That is not what I meant at all. I am saying stats without context are very misleading. No seasons scedule is a replica of the previous, so look at who we faced, and how good they are/were at that stage before making sweeping statements like this was the Boks best season in 16 years. And whether you buy into this vision or not, the All Blacks are the benchmark, that is the reality at the moment. Do you think for one moment Nz or Aus will call their season a dream season without the RC/Bledisloe title? Or England without the Grand Slam,6 Nations title and at least one victory over us or the All Blacks?
    Like I said in previous comments, we had a very good year and Heyneke deserves a huge amount of credit, but let’s not get carried away and call it the best season in 16 years.

  98. avatar Aldo says:
    November 26th, 2013 at 1:09 pm

    Hey Morne, what do you mean even I would understand the difference between scrumhalf and flyhalf. That is easy, the scrumhalf is Eddie Andrews who had his head scrummed up his arse at every scrum, in other word he was scrummed in half. Flyhalf is Jaco vd Westhuyzen who thought he could attempt a dropgoal from his own 22, but the ball didnt FLY HALF as far as he thought it would so he just knocked.

  99. avatar Craven says:
    November 26th, 2013 at 1:51 pm

    @Christo (Vetgesmeerde Blits):

    “so look at who we faced, and how good they are/were at that stage”

    Then why don’t you apply this reasoning to the ABs as well? If you did you would see that this year’s AB team is a hell of a lot stronger and more rounded than the 2009 vintage.

    WHy does that not count in your reasoning?

  100. avatar Boertjie says:
    November 26th, 2013 at 2:24 pm

    @Aldo:

    Goed gesê.
    Longdrop van der Westhuizen.
    Met sy Jesus-hempie op die pale.
    En arme ou Eddie.

  101. avatar Christo (Vetgesmeerde Blits) says:
    November 26th, 2013 at 2:27 pm

    It does count in my reasoning, and I did mention it in post 70, here it goes again:

    “The notion of only looking at the win loss ratio at the end of the season I’d flawed. If the teams the Boks played, and the form of the teams we played are not taken into acount the statistics will never tell the whole story. The Boks played Scotland 3 times, Argentina twice and Samoa once. Australia’s RC team was their worst in many years, ans France had a nightmare season. On the flip side this All Black is a great one, and Wales had a great year(although the Boks have only lost against them once)”

    Do you agree that this should be taken into account when judging the Boks year? I cannot see how we can do it accurately without taking these factors into account.

    Like I said before, I am a big Heyneke fan like most of the guys here, and for me there were far more positives than negatives this year. It was a very good year and we are on the right track in my view but some goes overboard when judging our performance(on both the positive and negative side of the argument)

  102. avatar Aldo says:
    November 26th, 2013 at 3:45 pm

    Ag oom Boer, I actually loved the Jesus hempie. The Christian faith is something to celebrate not be ashamed of. But let’s not get into that discussion again.

  103. avatar DavidS says:
    November 26th, 2013 at 6:31 pm

    @Aldo:

    Agreed.. didn’t see any of the usual gang of morons whine when Beast dedicated his 2009 opening test match against the B&IL man of the match award to King Jesus…

    No…

    JUst Jaco

  104. avatar Duiwel says:
    November 26th, 2013 at 7:09 pm

    bwahahahahahahaj

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