RERUN: The Heart of South Africa

December 5, 2013
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Just a very nice story worth repeating. It was printed in RuggaWorld, 12 June 2006.

This was the story by Brendon Shields (maybe he remembers it?):

I decided this week to attend a local club game instead of supporting the Boks at ABSA stadium. The club game also kicked-off at 3pm, forcing me to record the Springbok game for later viewing. This, in my twisted over-analytical little mind, was a fresh approach to supporting rugby in South Africa.

At around 2:30 I left the house to buy a couple of beers and some biltong and by kick-off my car parked right behind the posts in a sublime spot overlooking the Maluti koppies.

The match featured two strong teams. The hosts were the Zebras, a team made up from mostly colored and black players in the location coached by my dad at night under one street light.

The visitors were the Bethlehem Collegians – an all white team with some strong sponsors and good support from the more affluent in town. The match was played at Bakenpark stadium – a shoddy venue in the heart of the previously ‘colored’ township by the same name.

As with my previous post I will not mention much about the game itself apart from to say that the Zebras comprehensively outgunned the Collegians with some intelligent running and good ball skills.

The Collegians team consisted of some really big forwards and equally sturdy backs but it is becoming more apparent by the day that the ‘white’ style of play has more weaknesses than strengths.

Our white guys simply lack intelligence and once you can match their pack you are sure to run them ragged in the backs. It happens week after week in schools rugby and now also at club level.

To strengthen the Zebra pack my dad approached some ‘damduikers’ as they are called in these parts. A ‘damduiker’ is a poor white male who lives on the breadline, mostly unemployed or employed in the security industry or at the railways.

These guys are the salt of the earth and due to their upbringing they are hard as nails. They are often not as well nourished and were more than likely not picked for the first team whilst at school. For these reasons the damduiker is more often than not a very skinny specimen with little representative rugby experience.

BUT you will not get them as tough as the damduiker. You can pick a huge farmer against these boys but after 60 minutes at the bottom of a ruck you will see the damduiker get a trademark wry smile and from then on its hell for the farmer boys.
Farmers enjoy rugby. Damduikers enjoy contact – and the club game almost always favors the latter!

The Damduiker tight five, supported by the speedy black loose trio. (Why do Africans prefer and excel in this position whereas the ‘colored’ players are born backline specialists? Do Solly Tyibilika and Tim Dlulane have something to do with this or is it physiological?)

The Zebras managed to neutralize the big Collegians pack and as I have said before the backline just stepped and jived all day leaving the whiteys in a daze.
This article however is about what went on next to the field. This is where I have discovered the heart of South Africa.

A quick photo snap: Its winter in one of the coldest places in the country. Most patches of grass are burnt black and you have the South African National Flower (the plastic bag) to decorate the natural environment with aplomb.

On the B field two local soccer teams are battling it out but they have about 100 onlookers. The rugby field is totally surrounded by cars, people standing on the back of bakkies, groupies having cider or wine etc. The smell of chops on a BBQ fill the air and the combined sound of 45 different car sound systems (some with boom boxes) create a surreal sonic vibe.

The picture described above is well known to most South Africans; however this Saturday the picture was altered slightly. Black and white converged in their numbers on this ground and for once we mixed and shouted and laughed and screamed together, without it being forced upon anyone by some Vodacom marketing campaign.

At some point a car pulled up with 4 slightly tipsy girls hooting down the touch line. Once the car stopped two African girls and two Afrikaans girls appeared from the dusty haze created by their braking on the dry grass. The four of them hugged and laughed and shared a good time.

Next to the field a white and a black spectator each argued over the conundrum of why club players seem to handle the ball better in contact than their Super 14 counterparts. Both respected each others rugby knowledge.

Behind the posts some 14 boys, black and white started a touch game, quickly followed by just as many girls playing a game of netball. The local crowd applauded the visitors play and the place erupted with noise from car hooters and screams every time a local player stepped or scored.

I mention ‘stepped’ because it would appear as if the African spectator has a special appreciation for a good jinx or a step, much the same as us white fans like a hard tackle.

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109 Comments

  1. avatar Boertjie says:
    December 5th, 2013 at 10:37 pm

    Just BTW: There were 234 comments.
    Those were the good old days.

  2. avatar Duiwel says:
    December 6th, 2013 at 12:45 am

    Ja.

  3. avatar Cheetah Glory says:
    December 7th, 2013 at 4:01 am

    Wow i cannot believe how long ago that was!

    Sadly the club game in my town have deteriorated further – not to speak off the development side of things.

    Those moments now seem a lifetime away.

  4. avatar Duiwel says:
    December 7th, 2013 at 10:50 am

    Eh Viola.
    I am struggling not to strangle
    the next frog that tells me how
    South Africa is better now after the world stood
    together to help the noble black population
    to regain their heritage and flourish and
    live happily after due to eureen intervention.

  5. avatar Boertjie says:
    December 7th, 2013 at 12:08 pm

    I can send you some counter arguments.

  6. avatar Duiwel says:
    December 7th, 2013 at 4:12 pm

    Ag Oudste,
    I have finally accepted that I cannot change
    the modern ,intelligent western world”s
    ignorance.

    I have noticed that a few programs here were
    not scared to look at the whole picture
    and ask hard questions.

    I also noticed that a few,surprisingly,
    followed the terrorism angle and
    came to the conclusion that an armed struggle
    in which you target women ,children and soft targets
    is unacceptable .

    But that is a debate for another time and place.

    I unfortunately look at whoever regurgitates the cliche,
    smile
    and contemplate the tolerance which I have unknowingly gained.

    America,England and Europe will have their turn with terrorism
    and it is interesting to see how they change their song
    when they are at the receiving end.

  7. avatar DavidS says:
    December 8th, 2013 at 9:25 am

    Ja Duiwel… like they are angry that we subjected terrorists to trials that resulted in judicial executions but think it’s okay to kill them with remote control aeroplanes… without the benefit of such trials…

  8. avatar Duiwel says:
    December 8th, 2013 at 11:33 am

    Exactly that Oom D ,like their first
    Plastic black president,
    Has ordered 3 times as many strikes
    as his predecessor ,

    But that’s ok.
    They keep em locked up without trial
    Torture em,
    That’s ok too.

    We can go on on and on.
    You can present as many facts as you wish
    the avarage duck dont want to know
    He wants to be force fed by thepropaganda machine
    which is the modern media.

    If you harp on too much
    You would be branded an al Qaeda terrorist
    and droned.
    Even though 131″pin point” drone strikes
    equate to 431 civilian casualties.

  9. avatar DavidS says:
    December 8th, 2013 at 1:09 pm

    Scary shit…. oh and all the monitoring of communications…

  10. avatar Duiwel says:
    December 8th, 2013 at 1:18 pm

    Ja-ala merkel cel phone.
    They have all this shit flying above us
    doing whatever they feel like.

    Maybe we should give bin laden a Nobel prize
    for peace.

  11. avatar DavidS says:
    December 8th, 2013 at 6:46 pm

    Ja well the Obama and Hilary faces watching that SEAL snuff video was priceless. Now you know who rules you… how they can watch their orders have effects in real life.

    I always laugh at tough guy US Marine types on Twitter brag how their Apache helicopters kill Talibans with Lee Enfields and donkeys for carriages wearing sandals.

    Well you know who is the real brave ones in that battle… the guys who KNOW they’re facing Apaches with night visions and SEALS and drones who pack RPGs on donkeys, load their Lee Enfields and go fight he greatest superpower on earth…

  12. avatar Craven says:
    December 9th, 2013 at 7:31 am

    Why is one half of the conflict referred to as “terrorists”, while the other side who most definitely also “terrorised” a population through their draconian laws and enforcement of said laws with brute force seen as not being wrong, even though it also targeted women and children?

  13. avatar Boertjie says:
    December 9th, 2013 at 12:37 pm

    Terrorists are people trying to overthrow
    a constituted government with external assistance.
    In the case of the ANC about 80% of their funds
    came from the communist USSR.
    At one stage about 75% of the ANC top structure
    were members of the SACP.

  14. avatar Craven says:
    December 9th, 2013 at 1:39 pm

    @Boertjie:

    True that, but he world has changed massively. Who are the “bad guys” in the world today? Back then we all feared the “rooi gevaar”, but nowadays more people are killed by the so called “good guys” as mentioned by David and Duiwel above than the traditional red “bad guys”. Makes you think what all the fighting was for.

  15. avatar Aldo says:
    December 9th, 2013 at 1:53 pm

    Craven the only difference between a terrorist and freedom fighter, is who is in charge. A terrorist stays a terrorist untill they have overthrown the system they fighting against, then they suddenly change into freedom fighters. Guess is all depends on what side of the fence you are on.

  16. avatar Boertjie says:
    December 9th, 2013 at 1:58 pm

    I read The Last Afrikaner Leaders (Hermann Giliomee,
    one of the very best and balanced historians).

    It quotes another historian stating that nowhere
    in the world has freedom fighters taken over a
    government without it becoming corrup, self-enriching
    and falling into gross mismanagement.

    According to my rationale Mandela and others would
    have known this – there were some very sharp brains
    amongst them, including himself – yet all forms of
    power sharing, checks and balances etc. were wiped
    from the table.

    They could not wait to get rid of the white intellectuals,
    managers etc. and replaced them with rather useless comrades like Kader Asmal, who almost single handedly
    ruined education instead of building on and fine tuning that which had already existed.

    Now we have Eskom, SABC, Transnet and a horde of
    other state institutions whose mismanagement is
    costing billions in tax money.

    Mandela missed a very big opportunity to build a
    model state, but I suppose there were also great
    pressures on him coming from the leadership.
    His first speach as a free man contained nothing of
    nation building, forgiveness and all the nice ideals.

  17. avatar Duiwel says:
    December 9th, 2013 at 3:00 pm

    “No one starts a war warning that those involved will lose their innocence – that children will definitely die and be forever lost as a result of the conflict; that the war will not end for generations and generations, even after cease-fires have been declared and peace treaties have been signed. No one starts a war that way, but they should. It would at least be fair warning and an honest admission: even a good war – if there is such a thing – will kill anyone old enough to die.”

  18. avatar Duiwel says:
    December 9th, 2013 at 3:11 pm

    We are not without accomplishment. We have managed to distribute poverty equally.

  19. avatar Duiwel says:
    December 9th, 2013 at 3:28 pm

    I had to smile
    When the missionaries came to Africa they had the Bible and we had the land. They said ‘Let us pray.’ We closed our eyes. When we opened them we had the Bible and they had the land.

  20. avatar Duiwel says:
    December 9th, 2013 at 8:12 pm

    Interesting opinion
    In past years when one spoke of problems in South Africa, he often referred to the mistreatment of Blacks and their drive for racial equality in a nation dominated by a white minority. In this situation Nelson Mandela always became relevant to the conversation.
    Mandela (educated at a Wesleyan Mission School) was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 1993 although it was obvious to all except the deaf, blind, and dumb (especially the dumb) that he was a terrorist and waged war against his own people and nation. But then, the Nobel Peace Prize seems too often be given to those who lean to the left, are left handed, and live out in left field. Of course, their left knees jerk incessantly.
    Mandela was cofounder and director of the militant Spear of the Nation and was involved in burnings, brutality, and bombings by the dozens. One of his terrorist acts was the bombing at Church Street in Pretoria that killed 19 people and injured 217. He even advised black youths to burn down their schools. Those same children are now struggling in college because they missed so much school in their early grades where foundational facts are taught.
    It is unusual if the media do not refer to him as a political prisoner; however, it is interesting that Amnesty International did not consider him such because that group “rejects the proposal to recognize as prisoners of conscience people who use or advocate the use of force.” Nelson did not qualify and the media’s “make over” will not change that fact.
    Mandela is known for his many illicit affairs, but we are expected to overlook all that because he was so devoted to freeing his people and throwing off the oppressive white yoke! One day, his first wife returned home to find that Mandela had installed his mistress in his bedroom!

    Nelson was married three times and abandoned his first wife (a Jehovah’s Witness who was never political following the precepts of that sect) to raise their three children alone. He married Winnie who lost all credibility with everyone except those whose salaries and benefits she pays. Nelson shot her into space (divorce) when she embarrassed him and became a drag on his political life. She was vocal about advocating terror and violence to support her cause.

    Winnie, convicted of fraud and theft in 2002 and still a member of the ANC’s National Executive Committee, rides in a limousine and wears very expensive clothes and jewelry, and has scores of bodyguards wherever she goes. She was convicted of kidnapping a young man who was subsequently murdered. She also said, “With our boxes of matches and our necklaces we shall liberate this country,” referring to the grisly township practice of putting a gasoline-soaked tire around the neck of suspected apartheid agents (anyone working for the white regime), cutting under their arms, and setting the tire on fire. Then the black crowd of “freedom fighters” taunted the dying “agent of apartheid.” Winnie is a sweetie.
    Such savagery did not stop after Blacks took over. Three men were killed by necklacing last year for burglary. Early in 2013 four students were necklaced in Nigeria, so this gruesome death penalty is spreading across Africa, Haiti, and Brazil.
    All the victims of necklacing in South Africa have been black! Almost 200! Nelson even defended Winnie’s infamous speech on necklacing! Yep, a man of peace, principle, and purpose.
    In Mandela’s long walk to free the Blacks of white domination, he and his former wife, Winnie, and his Red buddies at the ANC became filthy rich. One ANC leader said, “I didn’t enter this struggle to be poor.” They aren’t poor anymore. Meanwhile, the “natives on the reservation” are angry since the trainload of goodies did not stop for them. The gravy train stopped just long enough for Mandela and his Red cronies to climb on board before it chugged on down the tracks leaving millions of poor, disillusioned blacks wiping the soot from their faces. Winnie even said, “[Nelson] Mandela let us down. He agreed to a bad deal for the blacks.”
    Mandela carefully maintained a statesman-like, friendly, likeable, reformer persona, trying to help his people (Blacks) but he has not shown any concern for his only living sibling, his elderly and sick sister. While Mandela built himself a 30-room mansion, surrounded by a high wall next to the main highway, his sister lives with seven relatives in one, round-shaped room sleeping in just four beds! However, it is crass, if not crude to speak of such things since he was a “man of conscience” and the “George Washington and Abraham Lincoln” of South Africa!
    And he did spend 27 years in prison but even if he had been innocent, it would not qualify him being nominated as a member of the Trinity by the unbalanced, untruthful, unskilled, and unnecessary media!

  21. avatar Timeo says:
    December 10th, 2013 at 12:35 am

    @Duiwel:

    Interesting piece of trash opinion filled with factual inaccuracies and conjectures.

  22. avatar DavidS says:
    December 10th, 2013 at 10:55 am

    PLENTY more factual accuracies in there too

  23. avatar Cheetah Glory says:
    December 10th, 2013 at 2:51 pm

    When I was a teenager I did some seriously dodgy things that i wont do today.

    You cannot blame Mandela for being a militant when his enemy was a thick headed fuckwit apartheid government who thought they were Gods children and therefore had to answer to no-one.

    Mandela however matured to become one of the few people in history who could forgive and despite a turbulent past move on and contribute to the world in a positive way.

    Too many people spewing negative shite about him do nothing to contribute to the world in a positive way. Sit down already.

  24. avatar Cheetah Glory says:
    December 10th, 2013 at 3:00 pm

    After seeing Invictus, just prior to the FIFA World Cup, my dad went and bought him a Bafana jersey. I looked at him asked: “wat nou?” His response: ” neewat, ons is eintlik dose. Die mesne het ons support met ons World Cup en ek sal hulle support”.

    Funny that my dad, being from that generation, totally still views SA as ‘us’ and ‘them’, but he no longer wants them to be an enemy.

    Mandela indirectly managed to make a positive change even in my household, so of course I dig the guy.

  25. avatar Craven says:
    December 11th, 2013 at 11:29 am

    It is not as if the ANC did not initially try to engage the apartheid government in discussion, they also pursued peaceful resistance for a while before resorting to armed struggle.

    Anyone remember how that turned out? You cannot negotiate with someone who refuses to talk to you because they deem you to be an inferior human being.

    DO I agree with terrorist acts? Hell no, but a lot of the blame for what occurred needs to be laid at the door of the NP government of the day as well.

  26. avatar Craven says:
    December 11th, 2013 at 11:32 am

    @Duiwel:

    “One of his terrorist acts was the bombing at Church Street in Pretoria that killed 19 people and injured 217″

    Ja, ’cause he mos sommer organised the bombing from within prison in the 80s. The man could do anything.

  27. avatar DavidS says:
    December 11th, 2013 at 4:38 pm

    @Craven:

    He actually claimed that he did okay those attacks in Long Walk to Freedom…

    Not just that one but the Amanzimtoti attack on the Wimpy too.

  28. avatar DavidS says:
    December 11th, 2013 at 4:40 pm

    To take it further unlike his white opponents he never apologised for killing people

    Brendon

    Smoking pot at varsity or shoplifting from the beach shop at Margate as a drunken matric is the sort of youthful indiscretion you indulgently with a nod and wink overlook as rash youthfulness…

    Advocating murder is not like that…

    Neither is being in possession of a firearm

    Neither is being in possession of enough explosives to destroy a large city block

    Not in the same ball park… not in the same city… not the same country…. in fact… not in the same game…

    As in… NOT THE SAME

    I cannot believe you can actually type… when you can say tripe like that…

  29. avatar Cheetah Glory says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 12:02 am

    @DavidS:

    If I had my same spirit yet was black and had to endure the kak many black people had to at the hands of snot nose white army blokes I would have been militant as well.

    Read Antjie Krogs Country of My Skull to find out what your Christian little white angels got up to in those townships.

    Hey frikkie, ons is lekke dronk. Kom ons rape n ousie en dan ruk ons haar vagina dat dit met die anus join met ons geweer en dan gaan sit ons Sondag in die kerk en sing Psalms.

    Shit like this, every but as brutal as todays farm murders, only in those glory years of apartheid the whiteys did not know about this (as we had no free press) and those who knew also did fuckall to fight it.

    Please spare me the bullocks of a ‘terrorist’ and the semantics as to what defines what. Aggression against the apartheid government, no matter the collateral damage at times, is historically justified.

    Our oupas and oumans and ma’s and pa’s voted for a kak system that today nails their own grand kids. No way you can debate or sugar coat any of it. Best is to just accept it and move on and try not make the same mistakes.

    Many darkies in ANC today making exactly that same mistake and history will judge them harshly.

  30. avatar Cheetah Glory says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 12:05 am

    and no, smoking pot is not a form of rebellion. Try sharing an alternative viewpoint among people who were never taught to think nor debate.

    Now try imagine Mandela rising above the petty needs of his own peoples anger to maintain stability. That takes balls.

  31. avatar Duiwel says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 1:22 am

    Cheetah,
    Kak.
    You could not find a white South African soldier
    prepared to rape a black woman.
    Just the smell would kill any doos dumb enough to,try.

    As for historically justified .
    Sure.
    Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
    Poor oppressed black noble savage?
    Zzzzzzzzzzzzz
    Ja,

  32. avatar Timeo says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 2:59 am

    http://in.reuters.com/article/2013/12/11/us-mandela-deaf-idINBRE9BA0FY20131211

    this is hilarious.

  33. avatar Craven says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 6:56 am

    @Duiwel:

    “Just the smell would kill any doos dumb enough to,try”

    Racist much Duiwel? This post was very, very revealing.

  34. avatar Craven says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 6:57 am

    @DavidS:

    David, you seem to know your history? Then you would know that the Church Street bombings was also a retaliatory attack. You cannot condemn one side of the conflict and afford the other side absolution.

  35. avatar Craven says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 7:00 am

    Anyway, that is it. I will no longer post on this topic. Trading blows with a bigot is not my idea of fun.

  36. avatar Aldo says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 8:56 am

    Now imagine that, Dawie being called a bigot? This is the same Dawie who I went to Loftus with, not once, but twice, the one that voted anc? That is funny, calling him a realist is more spot on, but racist? Im not sure of that one.

  37. avatar Aldo says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 9:30 am

    Speaking of the good old days, when will the yellow valiant be starting up again? I can still remember the yellow valiant’s trip to Loftus and who will ever forget the classic visit of the valiant to Namibia? Those were the days and even before the valiant, can anyone remember the oracle? Think that was pre ruggaworld, when we all were still on keo?

  38. avatar Craven says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 10:21 am

    @Aldo:

    I was referring to Duiwel and his comment.

  39. avatar Duiwel says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 11:05 am

    Craven,
    I have actually grown up with Zulus.
    Its a culture thing.
    Animal fat for the shine,
    Life boy at the best
    If you can actually find water.
    Clean water.
    And you own two shirts.
    And its hot.
    Years of ot affects your smell.
    After 3 days you dont smell bad
    You smell like you should.
    And you are more conscious of other smells.
    Not the fkn Soweto tour.
    Not political correct maybe…
    But true.

    I served i the SADF.
    I i was among those”white boys”

    I’ve seen men come back from a months work away
    get robbed by local12 year olds,
    whose dad was working away.
    And while he is away he fathers more children.
    Like a insolent child.

    I saw nothing but savagery.
    No one single flower,
    Like my mum said,
    Flowers were the poor mans gift from god.

    It sucked.

    And i opposed it.

    I knew South African police officers.
    They went to the same white schools.
    Most of us was poor.
    But they were all solid men.

    If 90percent of the crime and savagery
    or proposed savagery,
    was committed by a denominator
    Excuse me for actually doing it and
    Being there.

    I’ve been there.
    Not much ,
    but enough to for me to form an opinion.
    Maybe not like you want it
    but fuck you
    that’s what happened and not what you are driving at.

    I state again:
    Most of young Afrikaner men i knew
    would not even consider violating a black woman.
    They were too busy trying to stop
    whatever faction from killing,stealing,robbing ,raping,assaulting
    his neigbour.

    Most of them didn’t want to be there
    but they got on with it.

    No one has a perfect history,
    Not one single nation
    has not had his conflictual past.

    However
    The sheer savagery of witnessing a necklace
    or an Zulu impi laying into a Xhosa comrade
    with a panga,
    made me consider that the “white “option was better
    even if it included fkn Sunday school.

    Then this new called freedom evolved
    into a cancer that will leaves us as ravaged and decided
    As Rwanda,Sierra Leone.

    I have seen absolute madness take over South Africa
    like a spreading disease,
    If you call that freedom
    you are wrong.

    Its just a more savage form of oppression.
    So excuse me for not falling for the bullshit.
    Whatever the colour.

  40. avatar Duiwel says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 11:18 am

    Oh yes,
    and the gippo-gat doos who had to run around
    wasting two years being shouted at
    and shot at
    and spat at for being shot at trying to stop
    others being shot at
    Well I’m almost sure
    the sheer physical smell of sweat,animal fat
    blended by the trauma
    actually committing such a horrific act
    would kill any sexual impulse absolutely Fck dead.

    There might be exceptions.
    Then again,
    You get sickos everywhere.

  41. avatar Duiwel says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 11:22 am

    Or maybe I should form my opinion
    on a fkn book.
    so I can skip about like a plastic puppet
    and smell the roses.

  42. avatar Duiwel says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 11:27 am

    I’m not blaming any young person for being
    “Militant” whilst being oppressed
    I love Spartacus
    However
    I find placing bombs on soft targets
    Ie women and children
    an cowardly act.
    Sorry.
    Should I read a book and form another opinion?

  43. avatar Duiwel says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 11:37 am

    If you take pure statistics
    Rape in South Africa
    Perpetrated by tribal ratio
    Zulu
    Xhosa
    Pondo
    Matabele
    Swazi
    Sutho
    Afrikaner
    Portugese
    And the soutpiele
    Look at the maths
    And tell me the young white men
    are more inclined to such savage act by
    Ratio
    Maths.
    Your chip is as large as the next guy.
    Just more violent.

  44. avatar Duiwel says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 11:45 am

    And now funny enough
    when many of those young men you so
    easily judge
    are elsewhere living and prospering
    in relative peace ,
    South Africa has descended into a spiral
    of crime and savagery
    of almost unbelievable poverty.

    So does the light come on yet?
    Or do you need your book?

    Put the fkn blame where it should be.
    Do the maths.
    Instead of just making hurtful accusations
    and hiding the truth.

  45. avatar Duiwel says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 11:49 am

    Hey frikkie, ons is lekke dronk. Kom ons rape n ousie en dan ruk ons haar vagina dat dit met die anus join met ons geweer en dan gaan sit ons Sondag in die kerk en sing Psalms.

    - See more at: http://www.ruggaworld.com/2013/12/05/rerun-the-heart-of-south-africa/comment-page-1/#comment-513494

    You fill in the names with sipho ,Jacob and odipoes
    the maths would add up.

    Get your facts straight before calling me a racist.
    Do the maths.
    Poepol

  46. avatar Duiwel says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 11:57 am

    http://www.ruggaworld.com/2013/12/05/rerun-the-heart-of-south-africa/#comment-513479
    Timeo…
    Bwahahahahahaha.
    Classic.

  47. avatar Duiwel says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 12:36 pm

    And you call me a rascist?

    Hey frikkie, ons is lekke dronk. Kom ons rape n ousie en dan ruk ons haar vagina dat dit met die anus join met ons geweer en dan gaan sit ons Sondag in die kerk en sing Psalms.

    - See more at: http://www.ruggaworld.com/2013/12/05/rerun-the-heart-of-south-africa/comment-page-1/#comment-513494

    You fill in the names with sipho ,Jacob and odipoes
    the maths would add up.

    Get your facts straight before calling me a racist.
    Do the maths.
    Poepol

    Reply
    - See more at: http://www.ruggaworld.com/2013/12/05/rerun-the-heart-of-south-africa/#sthash.NHYRsMWe.dpuf

  48. avatar Duiwel says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 12:38 pm

    Moderation my hairy african arse…
    Typical.
    He can spew whatever
    tuck up under the rascist blanket
    and imagine its all someone else
    The moment we talk reality
    we run off and blame oppression.
    Pathetic really.

  49. avatar Duiwel says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 12:48 pm

    Duiwel says: Your comment is awaiting moderation.
    December 12th, 2013 at 12:36 pm
    And you call me a rascist?

    Hey frikkie, ons is lekke dronk. Kom ons rape n ousie en dan ruk ons haar vagina dat dit met die anus join met ons geweer en dan gaan sit ons Sondag in die kerk en sing Psalms.

    - See more at: http://www.ruggaworld.com/2013/12/05/rerun-the-heart-of-south-africa/comment-page-1/#comment-513494

    You fill in the names with sipho ,Jacob and Odipus.
    the maths would add up.

    Get your facts straight before calling me a racist.
    Do the maths.
    Poepol

  50. avatar Duiwel says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 12:50 pm

    Whatever.
    Let’s moderate.

    I for one
    Am happy to leave you to it..
    Kry vir jou nboggel.

  51. avatar Duiwel says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 1:13 pm

    Hey frikkie, ons is lekke dronk. Kom ons rape n ousie en dan ruk ons haar …… dat dit met die anus join met ons geweer en dan gaan sit ons Sondag in die kerk en sing Psalms. Shit like this, every but as brutal as todays farm murders, only in those glory years of apartheid the whiteys did not know about this (as we had no free press) and those who knew also did fuckall to fight it. Please spare me the bullocks of a ‘terrorist’ and the semantics as to what defines what. Aggression against the apartheid government, no matter the collateral damage at times, is historically justified. Our oupas – See more at: http://www.ruggaworld.com/2013/12/05/rerun-the-heart-of-south-africa/comment-page-1/#comment-513499

  52. avatar Duiwel says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 1:32 pm

    One in three of the 4,000 women questioned by the Community of Information, Empowerment and Transparency said they had been raped in the past year.[124] More than 25% of South African men questioned in a survey admitted to raping someone; of those, nearly half said they had raped more than one person, according to a new study conducted by the Medical Research Council (MRC).[125][126] A 2010 study led by the government-funded Medical Research Foundation says that in Gauteng province, more than 37 percent of men said they had raped a woman. Nearly 7 percent of the 487 men surveyed said they had participated in a gang rape.[127] Among children, a survey found 11% of boys and 4% of girls admitted to forcing someone else to have sex with them while in another survey among 1,500 schoolchildren in the Soweto township, a quarter of all the boys interviewed said that ‘jackrolling’, a term for gang rape, was fun.[118][124]
    In 2013 a study of 1991 grade nine boys at 46 secondary schools in Cape Town and Port Elizabeth found that 17.2% had raped.[128]
    South Africa has some of the highest incidences of child and baby rape in the world.[118] More than 25% of a sample of 1,738 South African men from the KwaZulu-Natal and Eastern Cape Provinces admitted when anonymously questioned to raping someone; of those, nearly half said they had raped more than one person, according to a non-peer reviewed policy brief issued by the Medical Research Council (MRC). 4.95% had raped or attempted rape in the past year at the time of the survey.[129] Several news publications extrapolated these results to the rest of the South African population.[130][131][132] The humanitarian news organization IRIN claims that an estimated 500,000 rapes are committed annually in South Africa.[132]
    According to University of Durban-Westville anthropology lecturer and researcher Suzanne Leclerc-Madlala, the myth that sex with a virgin is a cure for AIDS is not confined to South Africa. “Fellow AIDS researchers in Zambia, Zimbabwe and Nigeria have told me that the myth also exists in these countries and that it is being blamed for the high rate of sexual abuse against young children.”[133]
    “In South Africa, rape is so common it barely makes the news. The rapes of elderly women and babies are outlined in four-line stories on the inside pages of local newspapers, but most sexual assaults get no public attention.”[134]
    “The country has one of the highest rates of rape in the world, with some 65,000 rapes and other sexual assaults reported for the year ending in March 2012, or 127.6 per 100,000 people in the country.”[134]

  53. avatar Duiwel says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 1:39 pm

    South Africa[edit]

    Main article: Sexual violence in South Africa
    The Criminal Law (Sexual Offences and Related Matters) Amendment Act, 2007 is the relevant legislation in South Africa. Despite the fact that this act provides modern and progressive laws, that ban rape and other forms of sexual abuse, including sexual violence within marriage, South Africa remains a country where sexual attacks are common. The country has some of the highest incidences of child and baby rape in the world with more than 67,000 cases of rape and sexual assaults against children reported in 2000, with welfare groups believing that unreported incidents could be up to 10 times higher.[118] In 2001, a 9-month-old was raped and likely lost consciousness as the pain was too much to bear.[119] Another 9-month-old baby was raped by six men, aged between 24 and 66, after the infant had been left unattended by her teenage mother. A 4-year-old girl died after being raped by her father. A 14-month-old girl was raped by her two uncles. In February 2002, an 8-month-old infant was reportedly gang raped by four men. One has been charged. The infant has required extensive reconstructive surgery. The 8-month-old infant’s injuries were so extensive, increased attention on prosecution has occurred.[120] A significant contributing factor for the escalation in child abuse is the widespread myth in HIV-ravaged South Africa that having sex with a virgin will cure a man of AIDS.[121][122] According to official figures, circa 11% of South Africans are infected with the virus.[123] Edith Kriel, a social worker who helps child victims in the Eastern Cape, said: “Child abusers are often relatives of their victims – even their fathers and providers.”[121]
    One in three of the 4,000 women questioned by the Community of Information, Empowerment and Transparency said they had been raped in the past year.[124] More than 25% of South African men questioned in a survey admitted to raping someone; of those, nearly half said they had raped more than one person, according to a new study conducted by the Medical Research Council (MRC).[125][126] A 2010 study led by the government-funded Medical Research Foundation says that in Gauteng province, more than 37 percent of men said they had raped a woman. Nearly 7 percent of the 487 men surveyed said they had participated in a gang rape.[127] Among children, a survey found 11% of boys and 4% of girls admitted to forcing someone else to have sex with them while in another survey among 1,500 schoolchildren in the Soweto township, a quarter of all the boys interviewed said that ‘jackrolling’, a term for gang rape, was fun.[118][124]
    In 2013 a study of 1991 grade nine boys at 46 secondary schools in Cape Town and Port Elizabeth found that 17.2% had raped.[128]
    South Africa has some of the highest incidences of child and baby rape in the world.[118] More than 25% of a sample of 1,738 South African men from the KwaZulu-Natal and Eastern Cape Provinces admitted when anonymously questioned to raping someone; of those, nearly half said they had raped more than one person, according to a non-peer reviewed policy brief issued by the Medical Research Council (MRC). 4.95% had raped or attempted rape in the past year at the time of the survey.[129] Several news publications extrapolated these results to the rest of the South African population.[130][131][132] The humanitarian news organization IRIN claims that an estimated 500,000 rapes are committed annually in South Africa.[132]
    According to University of Durban-Westville anthropology lecturer and researcher Suzanne Leclerc-Madlala, the myth that sex with a virgin is a cure for AIDS is not confined to South Africa. “Fellow AIDS researchers in Zambia, Zimbabwe and Nigeria have told me that the myth also exists in these countries and that it is being blamed for the high rate of sexual abuse against young children.”[133]
    “In South Africa, rape is so common it barely makes the news. The rapes of elderly women and babies are outlined in four-line stories on the inside pages of local newspapers, but most sexual assaults get no public attention.”[134]
    “The country has one of the highest rates of rape in the world, with some 65,000 rapes and other sexual assaults reported for the year ending in March 2012, or 127.6 per 100,000 people in the country.”[134]

  54. avatar Duiwel says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 1:52 pm

    Did these acts occurred less
    when snot nosed young white males
    were patrolling the townships ?
    X?
    And now that these snot nosed young white Afrikaner men
    are not doing it-Y.
    X+Y = the figures prove the contrary.
    Put that into your book

  55. avatar Duiwel says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 2:26 pm

    The Truth And Reconciliation Commission in South Africa released statistics of all the politically motivated murders in South Africa during Apartheid, which lasted from 1948 through to 1994. The statistics speak for themselves:

    http://www.justice.gov.za/trc/report/index.htm

    Politically Motivated Murders in South Africa from 1948 to 1994:

    Blacks Murdered by Blacks:

    21000 people were killed in political violence during the 46 years leading up to the elections in April 1994.

    14000 of these 21000 people were killed from 1990 to 1994

    In the same period, 8580 black South Africans were killed by other blacks South Africans.

    Another 4902 were killed by unknown forces, but it is generally assumed that these killings were black on black politically motivated murders. (necklace murders)

    The ANC was responsible for mobilising black South Africans to murder other blacks who they thought were working with the Apartheid government.
    Blacks Murdered by Whites:

    The 7000 remaining deaths are generally attributed to the Apartheid government and includes the SANDF and security forces. A lot of these deaths were in South West Africa during the Angolan war. This number includes a massacre by the SANDF in 1978 in Kassinga where they killed 600 SWAPO refugees. It has to be noted that the Angolan War was fought with the undercover help of Western Nations in order to stop the Communists from taking over Southern Africa. These deaths also include white people who were killed by the ANC’s terrorist military wings.
    In the period from 1990 to 1994, 518 people were killed by the National Party’s security forces.

    The Apartheid government killed something like 7518 black people during the 46 years of Apartheid. Thus white on black.

    The liberation movements were responsible for 13482 politically motivated killings. Thus black on black.

    The Maths paint another picture.

  56. avatar Duiwel says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 2:28 pm

    Suck it all up
    and try and absorb the big picture ,peanut
    Then call me a rascist and bigot

  57. avatar Duiwel says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 2:39 pm

    Look at these horrific pictures.
    I notice no young white snot nosed Afrikaner men.
    And since there are none
    to be photographed and branded rascist
    it keeps happening with
    an alarming regularity.

    18 years into the rainbow nation.

    That’s your freedom?
    You’re Welkom to it.

  58. avatar Duiwel says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 2:39 pm

    http://www.thetruthaboutsouthafrica.com/p/mob-justice-in-south-africa.html

  59. avatar Duiwel says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 3:47 pm

    Nelson Mandela presided over the introduction of South Africa’s constitution – the most progressive in the world. But his time as president was not one of unqualified social and economic success.

    When Nelson Mandela was elected president of South Africa with a 62 per cent majority in May 1994, he was already an international symbol with a titanic legacy.

    His Presidential inauguration speech had a visionary promise for the nation:

    “We have, at last, achieved our political emancipation. We pledge ourselves to liberate all our people from the continuing bondage of poverty, deprivation, suffering, gender and other discrimination.

    “We enter into a covenant that we shall build the society in which all South Africans, both black and white, will be able to walk tall, without any fear in their hearts, assured of their inalienable right to human dignity – a rainbow nation at peace with itself and the world.”

    But did he deliver on it in his five year spell as President of the nation?

    The Rainbow Nation

    The 1995 constitution of the republic built a country straight out of Mandela’s Rainbow Nation ideals. It remains the most progressive constitution in the world and went much further than just rolling back the apparatus of apartheid.

    The Republic of South Africa is one, sovereign, democratic state founded on the following values:

    human dignity, the achievement of equality and the advancement of human rights and freedoms
    non-racialism and non-sexism
    supremacy of the constitution and the rule of law
    universal adult suffrage, a national common voters’ roll, regular elections and a multi-party system of democratic government, to ensure accountability, responsiveness and openness.
    It put South Africa far ahead of the rest of the world by recognising racial equality, women’s rights, gay rights and aspiring to food, education and healthcare for all. It states:

    “The state may not unfairly discriminate directly or indirectly against anyone on one or more grounds, including race, gender, sex, pregnancy, marital status, ethnic or social origin, colour, sexual orientation, age, disability, religion, conscience, belief, culture, language and birth.”

    Those principles can be seen in some of the legislation Mandela brought through in his five years of government. His notable and unusual emphasis on sexism resulted in several acts one enshrining a woman’s right to choice over reproduction with the introduction of abortion in South Africa.

    And a 1998 act recognising domestic violence as a “serious social evil” with many forms whose victims were among some of the most vulnerable members of society.

    Corruption and crime
    But other laws passed in Mandela’s spell in government reflect the troubles threatening South Africa – underground economy, corruption and organised crime. And these problems threatened the delivery of the promises in the constitution. A 1996 law attempted to tackle non-payment of tax and underground economies in South Africa.

    In 1998, the parliament took on one of the biggest threats facing South Africa with the prevention of organised crime act, one blow in a long, ongoing battle against the crime that still disrupts the country. The introduction to the act gives a sense of the problem’s scale and the task passed on to Mbeki.

    “There is a rapid growth of organised crime, money laundering and criminal gang activities nationally and internationally and since organised crime has internationally been identified as an international security threat.

    “Organised crime, money laundering and criminal gang activities, both individually and collectively, present a danger to public order and safety and economic stability, and have the potential to inflict social damage.

    “The South African common law and statutory law fail to deal effectively with organised crime, money laundering and criminal gang activities, and also fail to keep pace with international measures aimed at dealing effectively with organised crime, money laundering and criminal gang activities.”

    Inequality, a tradition of violence and a criminal justice system with a corruption problem fuelled the crime boom according to a 2007 study by the Centre for the Study of Violence and Reconciliation.

    Just after Nelson Mandela left office, UN crime statistics marked South Africa as the worst in the world for murder and assault – of the countries where statistics are gathered. 74 gun murders per 100,000 population and a further 51 murders without firearms.

    And despite Mandela’s commitment to annihilating sexism, violence against women is a striking aspect of the country’s crime problem.

    A 2005 survey dubbed South Africa the “rape capital” of the world, with a rate of 118.3 rapes per 100,000 population.

    And despite the constitution’s pledge of access to justice for all, a police force believed to be corrupt and ineffectual has encouraged a boom in private security companies – giving greater security to those who can pay for it.

    Mandelanomics: from communist to capitalist
    Mandela’s early economic ideas were influenced by socialism in the 1950s. He believed in nationalising South Africa’s mines and its banks.

    But when he took over power in 1994, he took a more market-friendly approach, slashing spending and pursuing foreign investors, policies that led to the longest period of growth in the country’s history.

    Mandela’s finance minister, Chris Liebenberg, used his first budget to raise taxes, equalise the tax system for all racial groups, and slash the defence budget.

    With apartheid down, trust in Mandela was at an international high. Trade sanctions were lifted and investment flooded in. South Africa became the continent’s leading economy.

    But the new wealth was shared out unequally, a problem only exacerbated by the 2008 recession.

    White South Africans, who account for 8.7 percent of the population of 53 million, on average earn six times more than their black counterparts and still have access to better education, medical care and housing, says this report on a South Africa business paper.

    Just 8.3 per cent of blacks over the age of 20 had some post-secondary education in 2011, compared with 37 percent of whites, according to census data.

    But one of Mandela’s greatest legacies is to democracy. And given given the precedents in Africa, one of the most striking features of Mandela’s time in power is that five years after winning it, he was also able to peacefully relinquish it, establishing South Africa as one of the world’s great democracies.

    A

  60. avatar Duiwel says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 3:54 pm

    But one of Mandela’s greatest legacies is to democracy. And given the precedents in Africa, one of the most striking features of Mandela’s time in power is that five years after winning it, he was also able to peacefully relinquish it, establishing South Africa as one of the world’s great democracies.

    This is why i personally think he was a great man.
    Absolute power did not corrupt him absolutely.

  61. avatar Ollie says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 4:43 pm

    @Duiwel:

    But bliksem you can waffel on before coming to the point in your last sentence

  62. avatar Ollie says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 4:43 pm

    :lol:

  63. avatar Duiwel says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 4:51 pm

    death rate grew to horrific proportions, some by suicide but mostly by murder. Others went insane under the constant stress or from everlasting pain. From time to time prisoners were removed from our cells and we forced ourselves to believe that they were being transferred: we preferred to look on the bright side because we could not handle the psychological devasation of facing probable reality…. No-one knows how many people were slaughtered at Quatro and the other camps, not even the ANC leaders. The use of MK names and Quatro names added to the confusion of keeping track of who was dead or alive: I heard one bizarre case where due to a confusion in code names a prisoner being tortured confessed to having murdered himself.

    Oliver Tambo and Nelson Mandela sing the ANC anthem in Johannesburg, after Mandela’s release and Tambo’s return from exile.
    Another confessed to murdering cadres who were subsequently found alive. Many of the guards (and prisoners) were young teenagers and were not particularly responsible people. The youngest prisoner at Quatro was a ten year old boy named Inzindlebe… because he was an ‘enemy agent’. (p.90)

    I heard that the Quatro gravedigger was often forced to dig the grave of an Mbokodo victim by hand. Often while doing this he would unearth the remains of previous Mbokodo victims buried in shallow graves. ANC leaders, command authorities and international cohorts of the ANC would in the future vehemently deny that such things ever took place, but I for one was there, I saw it happening. I was personally involved and brutalized at Quatro for the better part of four long years. (p.90)

  64. avatar Duiwel says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 4:56 pm

    Sorry Ollie.
    It would be less inconvenient to say
    the poepol calling me a rascist and bigot
    Is right
    And Ja broer,
    But fuck him.
    I’ll post facts showing clearly the diffirence
    24/7
    Not hard to find

  65. avatar Duiwel says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 4:59 pm

    outh African common law and statutory law fail to deal effectively with organised crime, money laundering and criminal gang activities, and also fail to keep pace with international measures aimed at dealing effectively with organised crime, money laundering and criminal gang activities.”

    Inequality, a tradition of violence and a criminal justice system with a corruption problem fuelled the crime boom according to a 2007 study by the Centre for the Study of Violence and Reconciliation.

    Just after Nelson Mandela left office, UN crime statistics marked South Africa as the worst in the world for murder and assault – of the countries where statistics are gathered. 74 gun murders per 100,000 population and a further 51 murders without firearms.

    And despite Mandela’s commitment to annihilating sexism, violence against women is a striking aspect of the country’s crime problem.

    A 2005 survey dubbed South Africa the “rape capital” of the world, with a rate of 118.3 rapes per 100,000 population.

    - See more at: http://www.ruggaworld.com/2013/12/05/rerun-the-heart-of-south-africa/comment-page-2/#comment-513516

  66. avatar Duiwel says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 5:11 pm

    In fact why waste time
    I’m lucky.
    I only read this shit.
    I dont have to live it.

  67. avatar DavidS says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 8:20 pm

    @Cheetah Glory:

    Try sharing an alternative viewpoint among people who were never taught to think nor debate. – See more at: http://www.ruggaworld.com/2013/12/05/rerun-the-heart-of-south-africa/#comment-513479

    I did but you’re not listening… you sound like any other brainwashed European/Australian/American/Kiwi liberal

  68. avatar DavidS says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 8:22 pm

    @Craven:

    Stop talking KAK

    How can terrorism be in retaliation to something… it cannot… it’s terrorism…

  69. avatar DavidS says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 8:25 pm

    @Craven:

    Probably all of about seven or eight years yes you doos.

  70. avatar Timeo says:
    December 13th, 2013 at 1:01 am

    Duiwel,

    Slow time with the business in France? ;)

    You seem like a pretty interesting guy. If ever you visit my part of the world and has nothing better to do, you’re welcome to look me up.

    But lay off with the morbid stuff. The message of Mandela was that we should forgive. Or if we can’t do that, at least reconcile and move forward. Focus on the positives of his life, at least this week.
    Especially you and I, have nothing to gain by reminding South Africans of the challenges they still face.

  71. avatar Timeo says:
    December 13th, 2013 at 1:11 am

    @DavidS:

    For Americano:

    Doos = Box (of the cardboard kind)
    But when directed at a person = cunt(of the most undesirable kind).

    Beautiful colorfull langauge. :)

  72. avatar Timeo says:
    December 13th, 2013 at 1:38 am

    But I cannot resist adding some morbidity of my own.

    In the mid eighties at the height of the township violence, I had a student job, one December sitting around a table with blacks, coloureds and whites of varying social classes making wiring harnesses. The black guy entertained us with stories of his weekend activities. Apparently his social soccer team would play other teams for a prize of a crate of beer per player and the winning team would afterwards proceed to drink the beer and find a girl to gang rape. Horror! He did add that he actually felt sorry for the young girls in the townships. With all the violence and political stuff going on, rape was common, easy and low risk for fun loving fellas like himself.

    The question is, is this casual horrific behavior just how Africans are or was it the result of the township system in South Africa, introduced by the mines and institutionalized by apartheid?

    Is this type of behavior common in the neighboring countries that did not experience thee same? Namibia, Botswana, Zambia?

  73. avatar Timeo says:
    December 13th, 2013 at 1:42 am

    Off coarse, rape and other horrific behaviors, were pretty common in Europe during the upheaval years between 1914 and ’48 also.

  74. avatar Timeo says:
    December 13th, 2013 at 1:52 am

    Mandela, King, Gandhi and Jefferson were not perfect men, but they were great men, because of the ideals they left us with. No point on harping on their flaws, rather celebrate the ideal versions, even if the real men did not always live up to it.

    Before this century, who did we celebrate? Alexander, Ceasar, Napoleon, Lee?

    I think we’ve made great progress.

  75. avatar Timeo says:
    December 13th, 2013 at 2:06 am

    I once saw this Depardieu movie about France just after WW2. The intro started with the message: “During the occupation, some joined the resistance, some collaborated, most just tried to survive.”

    I always think about which path I would choose if ever I live in some such time or place.
    We always imagine ourselves to be brave, but are we really? Ideally, I’d rather live in another place and time.

  76. avatar Timeo says:
    December 13th, 2013 at 2:10 am

    Mandela was pretty brave.

  77. avatar Craven says:
    December 13th, 2013 at 8:27 am

    @DavidS:

    “Probably all of about seven or eight years yes you doos”

    I thought we were debating issues, but you just resort to petty name calling? I really thought this website was different to the absolute toilet that the Keo site eventually became where everyone just insulted each other and swore at each other, seems I was mistaken.

  78. avatar Craven says:
    December 13th, 2013 at 8:31 am

    @Duiwel:

    ““Just the smell would kill any doos dumb enough to,try””

    You see this comment Duiwel? This is what I am talking about and no amount of stats you quote will change this comment you made.

    It is offensive to non whites and as such can be deemed racist. I do not know what you are trying to prove by quoting articles you are googling like there is no tomorrow, nothing you can quote from the internet will change that you posted an extremely offensive comment on this article, it really revealed much more of you than you would care to admit unfortunately.

  79. avatar Craven says:
    December 13th, 2013 at 8:32 am

    Anyway, that is it, I think my time here is finished.

    THanks for the guys who made this a very interesting site with actual rugby related comments and not just insulting each and everyone that does not agree with you on rugby related matters.

    Good luck with the website and enjoy the festive season.

    All the best.

  80. avatar Morné says:
    December 13th, 2013 at 3:59 pm

    In all my years associated with this site I have never been so disappointed in a thread as I am in this one.

    I loved what Boertjie tried to do here posting an old ‘classic’ from this site in years gone by only for it to turn out like this.

    I know I am no longer involved but fuck guys this is not who we are.

    The whole SA has gone tits up over the last week with the death of Madiba and in some way it affects all of us either positively or negatively so I know emotions might be at an all-time high, but we are better than this.

    Duiwel just as a note as a policy we hardly ever moderate or delete comments on here, we never had the need to. Some trolls in the past did however make it necessary for us to ‘blacklist’ certain words so if any of your comments was moderated from articles you posted, it was almost certainly done by this system not by any of the admins that currently run this site. If I am wrong I apologise.

    Its Christmas guys, lets grab a lekker chill.

  81. avatar Christo (Vetgesmeerde Blits) says:
    December 13th, 2013 at 6:34 pm

    Dankie Morne, stem saam.

  82. avatar Duiwel says:
    December 13th, 2013 at 7:49 pm

    Read Antjie Krogs Country of My Skull to find out what your Christian little white angels got up to in those townships.

    Hey frikkie, ons is lekke dronk. Kom ons rape n ousie en dan ruk ons haar vagina dat dit met die anus join met ons geweer en dan gaan sit ons Sondag in die kerk en sing Psalms.

    - See more at: http://www.ruggaworld.com/2013/12/05/rerun-the-heart-of-south-africa/#comment-513474

    I found this to be an deliberate attempt to discredit
    young men of a certain ethnic group
    who had unselfishly given lives
    to keep savagery at bay.

    My retaliatory remark might be crude and uncouth
    however
    closer to the mark than yours.

    I have been called a rascist twice in my life
    Both times here.
    Both times by people who can dish out
    but bitch when they receive some.

    If you need to look at something green
    and call it blue
    for whatever “greater” reason and need.
    -sure.

    I heard it all before.

    lI am lucky,
    i dont have to live in that reality
    and in all fairness,
    will most probably set foot there
    twice in twenty years.
    Within that time i shall live happily
    in a civilized country
    where that type of mindset
    and lifestyle of sheer savagery
    is 700 miles away.

  83. avatar Morné says:
    December 13th, 2013 at 8:07 pm

    Vanaand le een van my beste vriende in ICU na ‘n ongeluk met omtrent fokkol kans om dit te maak nie. Fok manne, die lewe is so kort, kom ons spandeer dit om meer vriende te maak, nie vyande nie.

  84. avatar Duiwel says:
    December 13th, 2013 at 8:28 pm

    Sterkte Mier

  85. avatar Morné says:
    December 13th, 2013 at 9:11 pm

    @Duiwel:

    Dankie maat. Ons druk deur.

  86. avatar Boertjie says:
    December 13th, 2013 at 10:07 pm

    @Morné:

    Dis slegte nuus.
    Die lewe is kort – te kort vir gemeen wees.

    Come on guys, let’s not chase bloggers away
    - epsecially not by throwing personal insults.
    I rue the fact that I posted this rerun, but
    believe me I had only the best intentions.

  87. avatar Duiwel says:
    December 14th, 2013 at 12:39 am

    Oudste ,
    Your rerun was a nostalgic ,refreshing idea
    that reminds me of spring in the Karoo.

    Mier,
    There are no words that would suffice
    Sterkstaan.

    I have never thought myself better
    than any other.
    Not by creed
    Color
    Or religion
    Or his fkn football side for that matter.
    Even Jesus who was born in Bethlehem
    cant pull,on a shark top .
    I am proud of my heritage as a young white South African male,
    My only regret that I couldn’t be young and wise simultaneously .

    But I can judge my own choices and actions
    And sleep at night.

    I have been and
    know many men who served in the SADF
    and SAP.
    not one would consider rape in a township.

    Most of them did their utmost
    to keep savagery away.

    I cannot name one who behaved in a dishonorable way.
    Either to the SADF or SAP.

    Most of them opposed this evil every day
    and kept ,arguably,
    most South Africans safer than they are today.

    They asked no quarter .
    And gave none.

    None of them placed a bomb to intentionally terrorize
    innocent men,women and children.
    It is an act internationally look upon
    as a cowardly form of behavior.

    None of them participated or would indeed allow
    others participated in the
    “Rape of a ousie”
    In fact
    Not a single Afrikaner male i know personally
    would allow such an act to come to pass
    without opposing it.

    Most of these men stood and stand between us and violence
    every day.
    What they dont suck up
    spills on us and our daily lives.

    I refuse to have some website, winky- warrior insinuate that
    what I have witnessed with my own eyes
    to be false
    and paint it with such a false version .

    Just because he had no argument to lose.

    No nation is without its conflictual past.

    However
    im proud to have been born a young white South African male
    of Afrikaner descent.

  88. avatar Duiwel says:
    December 14th, 2013 at 12:44 am

    Ollie,
    It would have been shorter just to say
    Jy praat kak,cheetah
    En fokkof craven
    But there you go.
    Yards must be made

  89. avatar Aldo says:
    December 14th, 2013 at 9:57 am

    I for one enjoyed this thread, there were conflicting viewpoints and strong arguements made. Pity about the name calling but its what happens when you attack one’s past by saying stuff like ‘rape a ousie’ was common when infact those same extreme cases when it did happen, the guys that did it were brutaly messed up by there own squadron. It was never a norm. The same with calling young men that served their country, whether they agreed with the politics or not, a snot nosed white kid. I came close to calling people names but decided not to comment. Better that way, rather comment around the facts then attack.

    As for Nelson Mandela, yes he planted bombs and he killed and maimed innocents, but he spent 27 years in jail for that, rightfully so. He served his time, sad that the media now forgets why he went to jail, but that is life. Forgive the man as he has shown a lot of people how to forgive as well. As Christians it should be the first thing to do, is to forgive past misktakes. We are forgiven freely, so we should also forgive freely.

    It does however irritate me that currently Mandela is made a god by people. Going on as if he was the be and end of all things great. He was a good man as president, he forgave, but he wasnt without faults.

  90. avatar bryce_in_oz says:
    December 14th, 2013 at 11:57 am

    Thread of life really…

    Love all you RW fuckwits… but not in a gay way yeah… not that there is anything wrong with that…

  91. avatar Duiwel says:
    December 14th, 2013 at 2:48 pm

    Aldo,
    I’ll bear it in mind,thx.
    Likewise.
    You never know,its a tiny old planet.

  92. avatar Cheetah Glory says:
    December 14th, 2013 at 9:43 pm

    Morne thats terrible news. We keep your mate in our thoughts.

  93. avatar Cheetah Glory says:
    December 14th, 2013 at 9:51 pm

    Its great to be able to debate things. The apartheid days of ‘ons praat nie oor geloof of politiek nie’ is long gone.

    Good riddance.

  94. avatar Morné says:
    December 14th, 2013 at 9:56 pm

    @bryce_in_oz:

    I fucking love you too man!

  95. avatar Morné says:
    December 14th, 2013 at 10:05 pm

    @Aldo:

    Ek moet verskil, ons groet net ‘n baie goeie man in my opinie. Een wat ons nie sommer weer sal sien nie.

    Ons se net dankie, want dinge kon baie kakker gewees het vir ons.

  96. avatar Morné says:
    December 14th, 2013 at 10:06 pm

    @Cheetah Glory:

    Thanks Bren.

  97. avatar Aldo says:
    December 15th, 2013 at 7:29 am

    Nee ek stem nie saam nie Morne. Winkels sluit nie eers meer Sondae vir die een ware God nie, maar vir Madiba? Mense staan nie tou om kerk toe te gaan nie, maar vir Madiba? Ons word gese om Nelson Mandela te volg, sy lewe te probeer nastreef? Wat van ons streef Christus sin na? Word Jesus so geeer op die dag van Sy geboorte? Op Paasfees wanneer ons sy kruisiging herdenk? Of is dit net nog n dag af?

    Nee Morne ek sien die verafgoding van n man, niks anders nie. Maar nou weer, dis wat die site nog altyd great maak, ek en jy stem oor bitter min goed saam, maar was nog nooit kwaad vir mekaar nie.

  98. avatar Morné says:
    December 15th, 2013 at 7:57 am

    @Aldo:

    Aldo, geloof is die laaste ding wat ek wil begin debateer want daar is definitief geen positiewe uitkoms or resultaat as ons in daardie put spring nie.

    Maar wie se skuld is dit mense gaan nie meer kerk toe nie? Mandela, die staat, of christene self? Hoekom is paasfees of kersfees nie meer wat dit was nie?

    Samelewing skuld christene niks nie, net soos dit moslems, buddiste of enige van die ander 2000 gelowe enige iets skuld nie. As christene hierdie dae of oomblikke spesiaal wil maak is dit iets wat hulle self moet doen.

    Vandag is een dag wat Suid Afrika (nie enige geloof) respek toon vir ‘n figuur wat sekerlik groter is as enige ander in die land se geskiedenies.

  99. avatar Christo (Vetgesmeerde Blits) says:
    December 15th, 2013 at 8:38 am

    @Aldo: Aldo, daar is ‘n verskil om aan iemand eer en respek te bewys vir wat hulle in hul lewens vermag het as om iemand te verafgod. Ek is ook ‘n Christen en ek dank God dat Mandela daar was in die oorgangsjare. Die diens wat nou wereldwyd uithesaai is, is deur ‘n Metodiste predikant(die kerk waaraan Mandela behoort het) gelei, wat ‘n beter manier om die Woord aan miljoene mense bloot te stel?

    Hy was beslis nie sonder foute nie, maar om hom as net bloot nog ‘n terroris te wil ettiketeer soos baie mense nou doen is volgens my uiters oneerlik en kortsigtig. Hy was soveel meer as dit, en het baie vir ons land beteken.

  100. avatar Morné says:
    December 15th, 2013 at 3:19 pm

    @Christo (Vetgesmeerde Blits):

    Goed gese. Madiba rus nou, tyd vir ons om aan te stap.

  101. avatar Christo (Vetgesmeerde Blits) says:
    December 15th, 2013 at 3:36 pm

    @Morné: Jy is reg, ons moet aanvaar dat hierdie een saak is waaroor almal nooit sal saamstem nie.

  102. avatar Duiwel says:
    December 15th, 2013 at 4:20 pm

    Jawat,
    Ek stem met Aldo saam.
    Mother Theresa and Ghandi are two people
    who spring to mind who did not stoop
    to terrorism to contribute to the good of life.

    I wonder what the family members of those
    killed by the bombing feel when they see the Godlike status
    of the man who played a role in their violent deaths.

    To terrorize innocent men,women and children
    in a public place by planting explosives,
    is not acceptable ivy most of the modern world.
    What you do after is relative.
    It doesn’t erase that you stooped to those acts to achieve your goal.

    I have respect for the man because he relinquished power
    without the usual bloodshed of African history.

    Since his rise to power the ANC
    have managed to tear that countries infrastructure apart,
    paralyse its economy
    , encourage by corruption of our government
    a savagery among South Africans
    which is highlighted by being the rape capital of the world.

    Even the children are not spared but targeted .

    If all this amounts to sainthood
    excuse me for not believing in it.

  103. avatar Timeo says:
    December 15th, 2013 at 11:08 pm

    Can anyone point out the bombings or acts of terrorism that occurred whilst Nelson Mandela was NOT in jail?

  104. avatar Aldo says:
    December 16th, 2013 at 6:43 am

    law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/mandela/mandelaaccount.html
    You wont find anywhere did Mandela ever really attack people with the bombs he planted, allways power substations, crops etc. He was however the one that said the struggle should become an armed struggle not a peacefull one.

    All the bombings people accusse Madiba of targeting people, he was in prison at the time, he wasnt an anc leader, his time in robben island he said that he was only a member, he could not focus on surviving jail and making leadership decisions. I still do not understand how the church st bombings etc is attributed to nelson mandela.

    And even if they were, like I said, forgiveness was received freely by us, we should give it freely as well. And I dont mean by Nelson Mandela, I mean by Jesus at the cross. I still think people are trying to make madiba a god, which is wrong, but as far as saying he was a terrorist, he WAS one a long time ago. He forgave, why cant we? Yes the country is shockingly corrupt, murder and rape are amongst the highest in the world, but we should start taking back our streets, not anyone else. By living in fear we allow criminals to rule us, the higher our walls become, the unsafer we make our neighbourhoods.

  105. avatar DavidS says:
    December 16th, 2013 at 9:42 am

    @Timeo: Rivonia and Cato Manor. Those two just spring to kind, but there were also attacks on road builders in the Eastern Cape. Read a book called “Communism in Southern Africa” – after he left jail attacks like St James and the Heidelberg Pub attack spring to mind.

  106. avatar DavidS says:
    December 16th, 2013 at 9:47 am

    Julle lot pis my af maar ek like julle ook baie…

    Mier

    I saw your FB post

    Prayers are with you and your family.

  107. avatar Christo (Vetgesmeerde Blits) says:
    December 16th, 2013 at 10:44 am

    @DavidS: Will also try and find the book.

    St Jameson attack deffinately not Mandela. PAC(APLA) took responsibility for the attack, not ANC(MK). St Jameson attackers should never have gotten amnesty for attacks so far into negotiations.

  108. avatar Morné says:
    December 16th, 2013 at 10:56 am

    @DavidS:

    Thanks Dawie

  109. avatar Boertjie says:
    December 16th, 2013 at 3:02 pm

    Some interesting reading:
    The man who taught Mandela to be a soldier
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-23515879
    In July 1962, Col Fekadu Wakene taught South African political activist Nelson Mandela the tricks of guerrilla warfare – including how to plant explosives before slipping quietly away into the night.
    Mr Mandela was in Ethiopia, learning how to be the commander-in-chief of Umkhonto we Sizwe – the armed wing of the African National Congress (ANC).

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