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Succeeding to fail


The time to feel sorry for the Freestate Cheetahs has to come to an end, they have no-one but themselves to blame for their ongoing problems.

It was 1997. We were at our home in Cape Town and one of my best friends from schooldays, a Cheetah supporter to the bone, sat down to watch what would turn out to be an epic Currie Cup final between WP and the Cheetahs at Newlands.

I will never forget his reaction when the Cheetahs seemingly broke the line to send Jan-Harm van Wyk (if memory serves) over in the corner to give the Cheetahs their first Currie Cup title since 1976. The reaction thereafter when they were called back for the forward pass, was equally emotional.

Fast forward to 2005. By this stage I left Cape Town and found myself living in Namibia. The only means for me to follow that final played at Loftus against the mighty Blue Bulls was via streaming audio on my PC. Straight after the final whistle and an historic win for the boys from Bloem in almost 30 years since they last drank from the Golden Cup, I phoned the same friend, who by this stage was already tanked as you could not believe but almost in tears.

Fact is, on that day in 2005 I was as ecstatic as I was in 1997 when WP won the Cup, afterall, they Cheetahs were my ‘second’ team (aren’t they everyone’s?).

The Cheetahs went on to share the trophy in 2006, and win it again in 2007 and making another final in 2009 which they lost to the Blue Bulls after upsetting the much fancied Sharks in their own backyard in the semi-final.

Last year they lost out to the Sharks in the semi-finals but since that historic day in 2005, the team featured in all the semi-finals, including 4 finals since 2005.

Enter 2011, and we have to read how the Cheetahs are staring down a barrel because they seemingly cannot find a title sponsor for the team since Vodacom ditched them (and WP) last year.

Excuse me? Stop die donnerse horlosie asseblief!

How can it be that one of the more successful teams domestically in the last 6 or so years cannot find a title sponsor just over one month out from the start of the Super 15?

Let’s not forget the fact that they also sit with the most successful breeding grounds in South African rugby in the modern era in Grey Bloemfontein who has been the top rugby school in South Africa for too many years to even bother to count delivering Springbok after Springbok.

Add to this the fact that some of South Africa’s most famous rugby icons like Os du Randt, Andre Venter, Juan Smith etc. call this union their home, and that they discovered/mentored exciting black and coloured rugby players like Kabamba Floors, Ashley Johnson, Lionel Mapoe and Bjorn Basson and you cannot help asking yourself how the Freestate Cheetahs failed to improve, or even establish their commercial value as a rugby union (read business) for which sponsors or potential investment partners should be falling over each other to sign the dotted line.

Yet we have to hear year in and year out how the union administrators sing the same old tune of how all the ‘bigger’ unions lure their players away with big money and how they always struggle for depth because of the fact and how they always have to start over every year, blah, blah, blah…

I will also not buy the line where there are no big local businesses that cannot buy into the union. Not in this day and age of technology where all traditional geographical boundaries in business are removed.

How is it that a hopeless team like WP and the Stormers, who have last seen a Cup at the turn of the century, manage to pack their stadium year in and year out and sign massive 3-year sponsorships?

How is it that an even more hopeless team in the Lions with regards to success on the field and support at the stadium managed to secure the financial assistance of a millionaire businessman and his partner?

The Freestate Cheetahs administration quite simply missed a golden opportunity to increase the union’s commercial value and appeal over the last couple of years in a market where they are, and definitely were one of the most popular teams or at least in the top 2 of 90% of rugby supporters in South Africa.

So forgive me if I have no sympathy for a union who given all of the above is struggling to find a title sponsor because for my money (which they cannot have) they deserve exactly what they are getting.

I do however feel for my friend, who I am planning to see again in about a month’s time. I will even buy him a supporters jersey as a token of my support to him, I heard they are going quite cheaply currently…

Leave a comment


  1. they have no-one but themselves to blame for their ongoing problems
    Called Harold Verster?

  2. I suppose they also need a black dude with lots of money generated from a suspicious operation?

  3. Morne yes and no.

    Well thanks for a cheetah thread. We get about 4 of them a year so i wont mind a negative one.

    Yes, the cheetahs still have an amateur approach to ‘other’ revenue streams, which makes them unsavvy and uncool and ultimately not a brand you want to associate with, regardless of their on-field performances.

    No, you cannot compare Cape Town feet, spend etc to that of Bloem. May I remind you again that Bloem has less people and less spending power than Brakpan, krugersorp and even alberton.

    As a result there is far less potential brand exposure in Bloem.

    Watch Puma singlehandedly change this perception and later on the reality.

  4. we still dont have a 10 but now have pretty much everything else, and wurmkop burger is back – so for once i am positive about the cheetahs.


  5. en julle klomp ruggaworld damduikers gaan hierdie jaar met fotos van ebersohn onder julle kussings aan die slaap raak…….

  6. Reply to the cheetahs are pumas! @ 2:32 pm:

    It is called selling to your market.

    Bloem and surroundings certainly has the spending power to fill the Freestate stadium.

    Cheetahs administration can also certainly do a hell of a lot more to attract more support, making rugby days rugby festivals, it is the type of culture and values that makes Bloem unique.

    There is also a massive Cheetahs following nationwide, but I have not seen one supporters club in any other major city in SA. Old Murph used to be the supporters club all on his own some time back.

    In the past couple of years the Cheetahs has had everything at their disposal to build a commercially sustainable brand. Winning culture, rugby icons, traditional Cheetahs rugby…

    Sorry boet, but your administrators let you down big time and the results of that is now hitting home.

  7. Reply to Morné @ 2:47 pm:

    again i agree, all the potential is there.

    but its slightly harder sell than you think.

    bloem can fill that stadium, but there is so much rugby everywhere. for me to drive from BHM to bloem is fine, its a great trip etc – but it means I miss the bulls game prior and the wp game afterwards.

    And contrary to say wp fans, cheetahs people really like their rugby and know their players, not like wp where most avid fans often do not know who starts at lock.

    Its easier to lure capetonians to a game because the rugby is almost a side show. why else would these fans go there game after game yet lose so often (2010 excluded)?

    But you are right, its a culture sell, and our guys simply have no clue but to try copy the bulls. it sucks

  8. Reply to the cheetahs are pumas! @ 3:06 pm:

    why else would these fans go there game after game yet lose so often
    Ever heard of loyalty?
    Ever heard of the atmosphere at the historic Newlands?
    Lekker close to the field, not half a mile away?
    Naah, you wouldn’t have, because you don’t value those things.

    Gaan speel op die treinspoor, Shields.

  9. WP has the best rugby fans in the world by far.

    Most are too stupid to notice when the rugby is crap and the rest have anyways nothing better to do on a Saturday. It’s Cape Town after all!

  10. Reply to Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes @ 5:35 pm:

    Nee, dis in Bobbejaansberg waar jy niks het om te doen nie.
    Geen strande.
    Geen wynplase.
    Geen staproetes.

    Fok, ek kan heel aand aanhou.

    Mind you, daar was op Kampsbaai en Table View en Muizenberg se strande geen plek vir ‘n wit mens oor die feestyd nie.
    Gelyk soos ‘n swart tsoenami.

  11. I see Fake White wants Fatty NOT to go to RWC.

    But if he was in charge, he would have begged him to go.

    :?: :?: :?:

  12. Reply to Boertjie @ 5:57 pm:

    Maybe it’s a good thing that the rif-raf pack Newlands and the strande.

    I’d be all over the wynplase and staproetes on Saturdays. Paradise is The Boeland.

  13. Not really

    Obviously never been to Joburg proper..

    We have a Super Zoo, Lion Park, Magaliesburg, Vredefort Dome, the Beer museum of SAB, Sandton Square, the war museum, the botanical gardens, Vaal Dam…

    Ek kan ook heel and aangaan maar ek weet julle like julle “fantasies”…

    WP fans can’t be loyal… they go to Newlands and boo their own team… ja real loyal…

    Newlands atmosphere… kak man… go to Kings Park, full Ellis, Loftus, Vrystaat hell even Barnard Stadium when the Valke play a big name team and you get exactly the same atmosphere… the atmosphere is the same everywhere….

    No really it is…

    Incredibly it is not endemic to Newlands…

    Thing is Joburg is so big and busy that a huge rugby game can happen involving the Bokke at Soccer City and literally 20 kilometers away nothing seems to have happened… or as has happened before… 20 kilometers away there is a soccer derby between Soweto giants and in a 30 kilometer radius you can see no difference…

    You guys are a hick town compared to us…. nothing more than a holiday town… where your existence is defined by the next thing you do to socialize in your little cliques…



  14. Cheetahs

    Ja they screwed themselves.

    Lions tenderpreneur is no more shady than Rob Wagner and Tobie Titus’ qualifications to run WP rugby… so f–k off on that rumour mill your media invented out of dikbekgeit…

    Cheetahs had a whole subfan base all over the country… hell even in the East Rand they were making inroads into the Bulls fanbase here which tells you how powerful they were…

    But they screwed themselves left right and center by doing nothing…

    Last year was their first year “back in reality” as the Lions replace them as one of the Top 4 and then goes beyond so the Cheetahs end up playing as “hopeful for a semifinal spot in CC”

    The idea that the Cheetahs should easily attract a title sponosr because they have a small fanbase in Bloem (as propogated by Morne) is so naive it’s laughable… the only sponsor that would settle for regionalism in a sponsorship is a regional organization… as in the A&G sponsorship deal with the Lions… A&G and its subsidiaries are primarily Johannesburg based companies…

    More likely is that one should rather look to market NATIONAL exposure of the team brought on by success as a basis to attract a nationally known title sponsor.

  15. Reply to DavidS @ 8:23 pm:

    This debate started with loyalty.
    Go check the attendance figures for 2010.
    I think Ellis Park rates rock bottom, maybe just above the stadium in East London.

  16. Beer museum of SAB

    botanical gardens
    Not nearly as famous as Kirstenbosch, I presume? Where do they import the plants from?

    Sandton Square
    Piece of tar surrounded by concrete?
    V&A Waterfront is the one the tourists come to see.

    Vaal Dam…
    We have about six big dams. But most people prefer the ocean.
    Or climbing Table Mountain or any of the other 100+ routes.
    Because unlike you, they have a choice.

  17. Reply to DavidS @ 9:26 pm:

    The fantasies are in your mind, Boet.

    Still can’t get over
    Beer museum of SAB
    What? A sort of monument to shit beer?
    The stuff tastes like piss when new.
    Must be terrible when old.

  18. Reply to DavidS @ 8:23 pm:

    Bliksem only a Vaalie would even attempt to compare that shit hole with Cape Town.

    Let me just tell you about my daily routine…

    I leave the house from Capri after having a smoke on the patio overlooking the Ou-Kaapse Weg mountain range, Chapman’s peak and Noordhoek beach.

    I then get in my car, drop my son off at his school a stone’s throw away from Noordhoek beach at the foot of Chappies.

    I proceed to drive over Chappies, into Hout Bay (the most beautiful little harbour town), up the hill towards Lldadnu beach where I am greeted by the Atlantic Ocean in full view.

    I proceed to drive along the cliffs all along the ocean into Camps Bay, and from there I decide whether I want to proceed up the mountain through to Signal Hill or drive around through Sea Point, Green Point and Bantry bay area all along the beach.

    Signal Hill road provides me with a brilliant view of Camps Bay from up high to my left as I drive and I am greeted with a view of CPT City Bowl and CPT harbour as I come down from there with a nice view of Table Mountain to my right.

    The Sea Point route always provides me with hot babes doing their morning runs along beach road as I approach the V&A Waterfront passing the magnificent CPT stadium to my left.

    Through City Bowl I proceed to drive along the N1 for a bit until I take the West Coast road turn-off, all the way hugging the coastline passing the harbour, yacht club and some of the most beautiful boats and massive riggs that are docked there.

    I continue along the West Coast road all the way hugging the beach on my left, pass Milnerton Golf Course which is between myself and the beach seeing okes teeing off for an early morning round in a nice fresh sea breeze (wind hardly ever blows a gale there).

    I continue up the road to Blouberg Strand area, stop off at my favourite garage there for a double espresso and perhaps a doughnut and watch people taking their early morning walks on the beach.

    I then drive up the road quickly to Parklands, about 4 km’s away, get into the office on the third floor, switch my PC on and while mail is downloading, grab a smoke while admiring a full and brilliant view of Table Mountain, CPT city bowl and the beautiful CPT stadium.

    All this makes up my first hour and 20 minutes of the day (the time it takes me to do all this).

    And boet, that is just my drive to work… Imagine what I do on weekends…

  19. Just keep living the fantasies kiddies… keep doing it…

    You have a few little hills and the Atlantic



    We have everything else including the cash to spend it…


    Ja well we have those in abundance too

    We have Melville Koppies, Gilloolies farm , Kensington Hills, The Wilds which are ridges in the crater of the biggest MF-ing meteorite in the world…


    Ja well we have a the biggest coolest zoo in Africa…

    And the Lion Park

    And the Cradle of Mankind

    We have Bass Lake with the best fresh water snorkling in Africa…


    Ja drive up Chapmans… the only road in the world where you have a chance the mounain could fall on you nad give you a chance to be a quadraplegic…



    Sea sunsets are universally the same

    Seen them in Holland, Egypt, New Zealand, Singapore, Namibia,

    All look the same to me

    Nothing matches an African bushveld sunset

    You’re as arrogantly smug about the “beauty” of that city of yours as what the English are about their dominance of world rugby…

    Nice try Morne…

    All cool and well till the Volkies spill into the streets around parliament or it rains and a robot breaks or the gangstas take their game into town…

  20. My favourite…

    “We have Bass Lake with the best fresh water snorkling in Africa…”


  21. typical fooking north-south arrogance.

    This is a CHEETAH thread so either we discuss Danillers jawline or nothing


    yes CT is beautiful and yes JHB has ‘verve’ but this is about the men in orange, whom I hear is much closer to getting a sponsor…

    Oh Morne, why the feck do you live where you live but work where you work? Thats insane man- very much Joburg thinking?

  22. Reply to DavidS @ 9:32 am:

    Let me explain something to you quickly.

    There is a difference in ‘trying’ to talk up something, or some place, and telling you about something, or some place.

    What I did is not to ‘try’ anything. I simply explained but 1 hour in my daily life in Cape Town, which for most (in Gauteng’s case all) is the most hated time of their daily lives, travelling to work…

    I will not even ‘try’ and tell you what I do most evenings, or weekends in this place, or what I cannot even get around to and I could still do, go to, or see.

    I am enjoying your attempt to ‘try’ and compare the situations too much at this stage…

    Quick question btw…

    With all the wonderful things you guys have in JHB, what did you do over December? Explore any of those wonderful things with your family? Or pack the car and head the hell out of there?

  23. Reply to Morné @ 11:31 am:

    Or pack the car and head the hell out of there?
    He packed the car.
    And guess where he went – like tens of thousands bored to death Joburgers?


  24. well at least JHB and CT have in common the way apartheid city engineers and social engineers fuct up both.

  25. my little town was built and engineered by the english (and run by the jews) so at least we dont have any dumbass labour experiments that messed the place up, apart from the township – that pretty much lured every tom dick and sipho from Lesotho to come look for employment where there was none.

    fok apartheid socioeconomic policy was not always very bright

  26. Reply to the cheetahs are pumas! @ 11:48 am:

    Talking of the city itself.

    I forgot to mention Dawie, you can come and join me anytime for a lovely stroll through CPT city center from the Gardens side right down to the Waterfront and experience what a clean, safe city feels like.

    You can make a video of JHB city center and put in on Youtube for me, that is if you make it in and out of there with a camera in broad daylight.

  27. Hoessit, Tjops.

    Reply to DavidS @ 9:32 am: “Nothing matches an African bushveld sunset”
    Wonder who’s hallucinating now? :roll: Hóé ver moet jy ry om ‘n bosveldsonsondergang te sien met al die rook, mynhope, skoorstene en die hele konkrytoerwoed daar rondom jou?
    He he :mrgreen:

    Will wither and die in Jhb, will never survive the traffic and that lot of poeple. Nice to visit friends there, let them do the driving when it just starts looking like a jam. OR Jhb International Tambo airport a nightmare, drives me insane.

    Also didn’t do too well in the Mother city, nearly froze to death my first winter there. Hier in Nam ken ons koue – maar net as dit donker is en vroeg soggens, 10uur as die son bietjie geskyn het trek ‘n man weer uit tot by kortmoue. En dit reën ook nie terwyl dit koud is nie! En mens kan nie vuurmaak met daai ellendige rooikrans-k*k wat hulle verkoop as hout nie!

    Dit daar gelaat, terug by die Cheetahs. Beteken Flippen Burger nog iets, hoe was sy rekord oorsee? Hy het darem nou seker $$ vir ‘n gedropte dolphin-shape BMW om mee donuts te gooi in Bloem se stadsplein…
    Het ek reg gehoor dat die David de Villiers Lions toe gaan, en Barend Pieterse is mos Eagles toe so wie bly oor?

  28. Reply to Namboer @ 12:01 pm:

    Ek onthou eenkeer toe ek daar was is ek gese om Noord te ry, na die Hoeveld toe na n plek genaamd ‘God’s Window’.

    Na n moerse lang gery, daar aangekom, gecheck, en net gewonder, ‘God’s Window to what exactly?’

  29. Careful Morne, Dele van JHB middestad is al baie skoon en veilig – mooi geboue ens.

    Gods window is nie so wild nie. Maar Mpuma toerisme bied jou steeds iets wat kaap nie kan nie, en dis wild life. Eks bly ek hoef nie te kies tussen die 2 nie.

    Maar mens kan eenvoudig nie CT met JHB vergelyk nie. Dawie doen dit net om jule af te pis en om te justify hoekom hy elke dag in die kak opstaan.

    Namboer, Wurmkop Burger is `n yster.

  30. Reply to Morné @ 11:54 am:

    About the stroll:
    Yes, we haven’t even mentioned the Company Gardens, SA Museum (I’m sure it beats the SAB Museum), Koopmans de Wet, William Fehr, the Castle (run down as it is under the new regime).

  31. Reply to Namboer @ 12:01 pm:

    En mens kan nie vuurmaak met daai ellendige rooikrans-k*k wat hulle verkoop as hout nie!
    By my Spar kan jy kies uit ‘n stuk of ses soorte “ingevoerde” hout.
    En ek het nog nooit so koud gekry soos een winterweek in JHB nie. (OK, daar was een nag in die Kalahari Gemsbok in ‘n tent teen -7 ºC.)
    Hier daal dit selde onder 6 ºC.

  32. Reply to Boertjie @ 12:36 pm:

    ja boer, probleem is hier is nie genoeg gays mense nie so ons kuns en kultuur is platvloers en meestal kaas en ham toebroodjie – waar kaapstad meer ciabatta met basel en olive oil is.

    moer mooi plek, moerse uninspiring kultuur.

  33. Reply to Boertjie @ 12:47 pm:

    neewat ek dink nie ons sin is anders as hele noord sa nie. vleis, rugby, brandy – selfde as witbank.

    so asof die natuur die mense hier nie aanspoor tot meer nie, soos wat in die kaap gebeur

  34. Reply to the cheetahs are pumas! @ 12:17 pm: Gebuigde ene, ja!

    Reply to Boertjie @ 12:34 pm: Vir ‘n billike prys, daai ingevoerde houte nou? En dis nie so erg koud nie maar dit hou heeltyd aan en nes met die hitte maak daai humiditeit dit erger. En dan reën dit. Bietjie rof vir ‘n man wat in die droogte gebore is en van die woestyn af kom!
    2002 en 2003 in Bellville geswot en -bly, 2003 se winter was heelwat meer draaglik.

    Reply to Boertjie @ 12:36 pm: Ek verstaan so, kry nie baie prentjies nie maar dit wat ek sien lyk baie mooi. Bethlehem staan van begin Des af al op 400mm+ reën, moet nou seker eers mooi wees. Maar my belangstelling is nou nie helemal in die pragtige natuurskoon nie!

  35. The problem with you dumbos is that you think Joburg consists of Hillbrow and Soweto…

    It doesn’t…

    It is one of the biggest cities in the world and you have nothing but nothing on what we can accomplish here…

    Can I walk through the city center?

    Yes of course I can… depends where too… at night… not so safe…

    But in the day


    You just have your casteel


    Africana Museum of Wits beats that left right and center every day of the week and twice on Saturdays…

    Across the road in the walk is Kippies… the pub where Nelson Mandela and Oliver ambo hung out… down the road the Johannesburg Magistrates Court where you can see original Van Wouw paintings… and on the way stop at the SAB World of Beer ( http://www.worldofbeer.co.za/ ) and or go back and cross the railway station to get to Braamfontein over the Nelson Mandela bridge… and onto Wits where you can visit the only planetarium on the country… and in the city center up Ruissik street past head offices of Liberty Life, Standard Bank, FNB and ABSA and Goldfields and Anglo American and the Reserve Bank you can go to Ghandi Square and visit spots like Lucillios and have coffee at the same place where the old NC stalwart lawyers like Richard Spoor and George Bizos would discuss their cases in Joburg High Court, and then pop out to Ghandi’s restaurant where he used to have chicken curry lunches… or when in Braamfontein you can visit Constitutional Hill and the old Joburg Fort which houses the Johannesburg Museum and the Constitutional Court… and in the center ride to the top of Africa’s highest skyscraper in the Carlton or pop through to Yeoville and shop at The Market for anything from Egyptian cotton to Zimbabwean tobacco!

    You see

    The problem is you have



    Vegetation that all looks the same

    And that is all…

    Just by thinking (not even looking) I have been able to name you a myriad of things to do in the city center itself which is safe and of incredible cultural historic significance to the world…

    I have not even mentioned Kliptown, The Gautrain, Bungi jumping power station cooling towers, the Magalies, the Botanical Garden (far larger than Kirstenkak with its…. oh yes… fynbos….), Vredefort, Kyalami. Soccer City, The Rivonia walking trails…

    You simply do not have that…

    But live in the fantasy


    All is fine

    Die Kaap is Hollands

    Oh BTW

    Anyone else put kids into school?

    How hectic are the costs of stationery!!!!!

  36. Carlton Centre ‘still’ the tallest building in RSA… isn’t only like 40 stories?

    Last I saw it was all boarded up and surrounded by razor wire and looted desolate buildings?

  37. Reply to DavidS @ 1:39 pm:

    and onto Wits where you can visit the only planetarium on the country…
    Gaan jou nie antwoord nie. Gaan Google maar SA Planetariums.
    En Sutherland is ook nie so ver van ons af nie.

  38. Reply to Boertjie @ 2:02 pm:

    Insane… the Carlton Hotel was one of the most revered in Africa… and now it’s simply standing there empty… that is eerie… there must be something they could do with all those hotel rooms in a country where so many live in shacks!

  39. Reply to Morné @ 12:58 pm: Weet nie wie van Koos Kombuis of punter, ene ‘Barry M’, die feite minder reg het nie. Cut your nose & spoil your face, hulle mis uit agv eie onnoselgeit. :shake: :roll:

  40. Reply to Boertjie @ 2:29 pm:

    I had absolutely no idea it was as bad as some of this… a horror movie… still have vivid childhood memories of some of these areas…


    In 96 I went to Mozambique and there were similar scenes… that was down to civil war… and going back in 2004… the regeneration had begun…

    This is just Armageddon… farkin savages!


  41. DAWIE:

    Stop talking shit. Go get the book
    Fatherland by Robert Harris.
    (You still have a library in Joburg, or have they ruined that too?)

    Setting is 1964 in Germany after the Germans had won WW II.

  42. Reply to bryce_in_oz @ 2:35 pm:

    I have some then and now pics of the Lourenco Marques hotel we spent part of our honeymoon in 1971.

    Glad to say CT is still clean and thriving.
    Roads are marked, potholes gets fixed quickly, ditto street lights.
    Only problem is with sewerage, mainly due to the influx from the EC and ageing equipment – requiring money that has to be spent patching up the gangsters over weekends, restoring vandalised schools in the coloured areas etc.

  43. Reply to Boertjie @ 2:41 pm:

    My parents too… it’s called the Polana now (I think)… we took some pics… still beautiful and restored nicely…

    Actually the wife and I walked pretty much all of the city… even the dodgy parts… would I do that in JHB… never…

    Although going to the Xin Xin markets was a different story… even the cabbie was crapping himself… it was something to behold… particularly the ‘muti’ part… chimpanzee hands and all…

  44. Reply to DavidS @ 1:39 pm:

    Ever heard of Google streetview??

    I just had a bit of a walk around the places you mentioned…

    Have you actually been there or just checked out the brochures of the places or what the city of JHB says on their website?

  45. Reply to Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes @ 8:14 pm:

    My cousin took loads of tourists around during SWC. They all said they loved the Cape, some 50% wants to come back.
    “But we did not like Johannesburg.”

    So I see a new career for Dawie:
    Showing tourists/visitors all the secret attractions of his city.

    Starting with the SAB Beer Museum, of course.

  46. Reply to Boertjie @ 9:11 pm:

    Oh yes.

    When people ask me about visiting South Africa, I recommend, The Bushveld, The Western Cape and The Garden Route, in that order.

    There are good things in other places but I cannot imagine travelling halfway around the world for any of it.

    And if one has to live in Gauteng, Pretoria provides the best environment by far.

  47. Joburg has always been the big smoke of SA, by a long shot, but it cannot compare with cape town’s natural beauty. Joburg is always a buzz, whereas Cape Town is a bit more relaxed. Joburg is new, Cape Town is old. Quite different places, SA is quite a cosmopoiltan country, of hoe?

  48. Reply to cab @ 1:30 am:

    Cape Town doesn’t have the majority of RSA’s aggressive Zulu’s and Xhosa’s… there is the difference in how things have evolved since 94’…

    Reply to Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes @ 10:28 pm:

    Yep… I always add Durban and it’s North Coast heading into Zululand and it’s battle sites, RSA’s oldest game park and the St Lucia wetlands…

  49. Reply to Morné @ 8:15 am:

    Ja but you’re jaundiced and biased and indoctrinated so your opinion counts for naught

    Remember you left your brain in Windhoek so whatever you say does not count.

    Most beautiful places in SA

    Hard one

    This is just my opinion so differ if you want

    1. Natal Midlands

    2. Knysna / Mosselbaai area

    3. Kalahari Gemsbok Park

    4. Blyderivier Canyon, Gods Window*

    5. Southern Free State (Golden gate area)

    * not all of us are total morons about the area

  50. Reply to DavidS @ 9:02 am:


    I grew up in the Eastern Transvaal.

    Moved to CPT when I was 14, left CPT at age 22 (8 years).

    Lived in JHB and PTA for 6 years, Namibia for close to 3.

    Back in CPT now since mid-2008.

    So in total, I have actually only lived in CPT for a total of 11 years, compared to living in the North of the country for 19 years of my life.

  51. Reply to Boertjie @ 9:55 am:

    Most the real abandoned derelict areas end up becoming ‘trendy’ areas with warehouse apartments and restaurants etc… I suppose besides some of the dodgy ‘outer-burbs’ that each state has… it’s usually where the council houses and tower blocks are… although they do try to integrate them…

    Definitely many dodgy areas though…

  52. Reply to bryce_in_oz @ 12:01 pm:

    The Australian Heritage Trust fund would love to have Jo-burg to play with… in Aus you are not permitted to knock down most old buildings before a certain age… so they eventually become restored and ‘trendy’… JBH is an art deco restorers paradise… just what to do with the natives…

  53. Reply to bryce_in_oz @ 12:03 pm:

    Cape Town also keeps on losing its old buildings, but Long Street Upper still has many intact.
    What they try to do is knock down, but retain the facade.
    And the CT Business Partnership is more or less working, keeping the CBD clean.
    My inlaws from PMB couldn’t stop raving about how clean the city is compared to their own hellhole.

  54. Reply to Boertjie @ 12:31 pm:

    “My inlaws from PMB couldn’t stop raving about how clean the city is compared to their own hellhole.”

    I said it earlier… the difference between Cape Town City and the others evolution is that you don’t have 30million Xhosa’s and Zulu’s…

    “Cape Town also keeps on losing its old buildings, but Long Street Upper still has many intact.
    What they try to do is knock down, but retain the facade.”

    Yep that’s pretty much the case here too… excepting that no listed building is allowed to lose it’s facade… loads of old stone factories, Breweries etc etc gutted with the exterior remaining and apartments, restaurants etc built internally…

  55. Reply to bryce_in_oz @ 12:49 pm:

    you don’t have 30million Xhosa’s and Zulu’s
    At the pace they are deserting the Eastern Cape hellhole it won’t take long though.
    Estimate is 17,000 per month.
    And the housing backlog has grown to 500,000.
    Plan is to turn CBD into a high-residence area. Read “Hillbrow” or “Sunnyside”.

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